I did not edit your quote.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bdawg
You said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bdawg
I just asked how you would consider the flag not racist.
Since you said "some people consider it racist", and did not include yourself. If you do think it is racist, you can say so. But, so far, you have not.
The only states he needs to worry about are MN/WI/MI/PA/FL. Maybe AZ. Any other states that swing back either way this go around signal a lost cause. It would be smart of republicans to push through this change and have trump support. He only needs to win FL or 2 of the midwest states listed to keep the presidency. The smart move is to pass this through and have Trump support it. The way this year is going for him, the flag will change and he'll call Tate Reeves a loser. Come up with some stupid nickname. And only drive support down across the board for himself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quaoarsking
You would think as we get closer to election and his odds are now that of an underdog he would play smarter. Biden is officially -105 and Trump is +100. First time Biden is favored over Trump. Almost like what he has been doing isn't working in his favor.
If Hoseman and Gunn get the votes to open a session, he'd be politically stupid to veto.Quote:
Originally Posted by fishwater99
Yes it was 20 years ago. The only reason most of yall dont want a vote is because you fear bot getting what you want which os complete horseshit. To be honest I dont care what the flag looks like. I do have a problem with the government making decisions for me.
They aren?t making a decision for you here; it would be made for the state.Quote:
Originally Posted by Duckdog
What I want in Mississippi to not look like a "bunch of inbred racist idiots".Quote:
Originally Posted by Duckdog
The fear here is that we would double down on our own stupidity. Again, you elect representatives to represent your state. You trust them to do the job because they are more qualified in it. That's why you voted them in. They are making a decision on how we want to represent Mississippi as a state.
Crying you don't have a say in the matter is like your family hiring a contractor to build multiple houses and being mad that you aren't voting on what is the best way to put up the frame of one of the houses. You hired the guy to do his job. Let him do it.
Maybe the only good thing to come from 2020. It always reminded me of the landbearsharkrebals. I like the new design. Classy if you ask me. Time to move on.
I'm all for changing the flag, but do any of you even know what the stars on the stennis flag stand for? Not the stars on the outside (which represent the states that came before MS), but the center star, which is intended to make the stennis flag an inverted Bonnie blue flag.
1. I’m perfectly fine with changing the flag. From a PR standpoint it’d be a great move.
2. Funny that folks don’t want the people to vote because they think it wouldn’t pass...but do think elected officials would pass it. To me that goes against what they were elected for. (I think with a vote it’d have a good chance to pass)
3. This isn’t a one time deal. Once the flag is gone something else will come up as the new focus to label non biased folks as racist. But i still support changing it.
Which is why they need to come up with something totally new, completely removed from the Confederacy. Perhaps something that celebrates the blues, magnolia, hospitality, etc.? Lots of options out there that would be cool.Quote:
Originally Posted by confucius say
The first flag of Mississippi was selected by the legislature in 1861Quote:
Originally Posted by Duckdog
The Second flag of Mississippi was selected by the legislature in 1861
The Third and current flag of Mississippi was selected by the legislature in 1894.
In 2001, the Mississippi Legislature were cowards and put it to a public referendum...
Added just a bit, but spot on.Quote:
Originally Posted by SheltonChoked
Increased the accuracyQuote:
Originally Posted by BeardoMSU
The inverted Bonnie Blue symbolizes how we're moving on from the mistakes from our past and doing the opposite now, or at least that's how I've heard it.Quote:
Originally Posted by confucius say
I'm with you on this. Let's just rip the band aid off and do it. I've never cared one way or the other to be honest. The sooner we replace it the sooner the left can find something else that offends them.Quote:
Originally Posted by TrapGame
Just to clarify. First I don't really care what the flag is, it doesn't matter for the most part.Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoobaDawg
A flag is a thing and can't be racist. Getting rid of a flag or statue or whatever changes nothing about actual racism but does maybe change a perceived racism. Perceived racism is a big problem so from there it may help some things but based on past history I doubt it.
Lastly the resistance to change the flag is more about who is in charge or resisting someone else telling others what to do, think, etc. Powerplay if you will. I could say more but it is a waste of time.
After self-study in vexillology ? the art of flag design ? and a lot of erasing, Stennis settled on the circle-star design. The 20 stars represent Mississippi?s entry into the union as the 20th state; the blue star on the white background is an inversion of the white star on a blue field of ?Bonnie Blue Flag,? which was waved when the state seceded.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quaoarsking
?I inverted it because I don?t celebrate that dark moment in our history, but it has to be acknowledged,? she said. Words from the mouth of the designer.
Somebody give this man a dog biscuit!
I pretty much agree with you, especially point 2. The people's voice should be heard, period. On 3 as well, go ahead and change it, I don't care but it will not change anything. Our country is doomed at this point with the kind of thinking that is driving each move anyway. To just exist anymore is racist. There is no more logic anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by shoeless joe
https://media.giphy.com/media/qUlkYKZX6bqvK/giphy.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by 3rdGen
Sorry but what you put in quotes in your first reply to me was not what I said. Secondly, yes, some people consider it racist and some people don't. I purposely spoke in general terms and chose not to include me on either side. But since you ask, I really don't have an opinion on whether it is racist or not. I'm pretty neutral on the matter. I can see where people would think it's racist. But on the flip side, just because someone(not me for clarity here) may want to keep the flag, that doesn't make them a racist. To me, racism lies in the heart of person. I may be a white person and have a neutral position on the flag, but that doesn't make me racist. I believe in treating everyone with the respect they deserve until they prove to me otherwise. A flag is not going to change who people are. It will only change some people's perception of MS. And that's fine with me. Like I said, I don't care either way. Because until true racists have a change of heart and race baiters, who find racism in everything, have a change of heart, nothing will actually change.Quote:
Originally Posted by SheltonChoked
I believe all this is extremely accurate.Quote:
Originally Posted by shoeless joe
Not sure why she thinks it has to be acknowledged. That will cause issues for some. Need a clean split. Just pick the bird or the tree or the flower and let's roll.Quote:
Originally Posted by 3rdGen
Now that we have finally fixed the flag issue, can we legalize weed. Everyone deserves to get chill every once in a while without threat of committing a felony.
all extremely accurate and I would also imagine they do not want to put the flag on the ballot because it would be on this November, and they definitely do not want to give certain crowds in Mississippi even more reason to show up to the ballot box.Quote:
Originally Posted by Commercecomet24
Since you clarified that you don't have an opinion, I'll ask again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bdawg
How can the flag created by the people that were fighting to preserve chattel slavery, as a means of identifying them in a battle, not be a racist symbol?
You are correct the flag does not make a person racist. Just like an MSU T Shirt does not make you and MSU fan. But IF I see a guy playing baseball in the Maroon 1985 MSU baseball uniform (a uniform made to let everyone know the MSU players from those on the other team), I assume he is an MSU baseball player.
By the same rational, If someone is flying a swastika in their front yard, I assume they are a Nazi and not a a member of the 45th infantry.
Damn man, are you dense. I'm not drawing a hard line either way. I'm in the middle. The flag doesn't bother me. Maybe because I didn't live in the 1800s nor was I oppressed. I just don't see racial issues in symbols. But I do understand if someone does. And as for your logic on the how the 2 flags you referenced represent people, well, you know what they say about assuming....Quote:
Originally Posted by SheltonChoked
Your assumptions are calling me a racist if I fly the MS flag
I'm not calling you a racist. I'm saying that the symbol is a racist symbol. That you choose to ignore the reality of that means you don't mind projecting to others what that symbol means.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bdawg
I'm trying to have you tell me how the flag is not a racist symbol, since that's what you first said.
You keep saying"you don't see racist issues in symbols". That's fine.
That's not reality. Some items are created as symbols.
You have to know that that's not how the rest of the world sees it.
If I move into a house and my neighbor has "Go Irish" License plates, a fighting leprechaun in his yard, and a big ND flag, I can accurately assume he is a fan of a school in South Bend Indiana, because of what those symbols mean.
What if you take the current flag and remove the confederate symbol and replace of with the state seal in blue. Wallah. My opinion, but the Stennis flag is dog shit, and probably won?t pass if taken to a vote. I think a major problem with the vote last time was that the alternative was absolutely terrible.
I don't think the flag should be viewed as just the next thing in a long line of things that people are deciding is racist and offensive. I used to kind of think in that mindset, but have since changed my views. All of these symbols are from an era that was so egregiously bad and inhumane to black people. There's no doubt the ramifications of slavery thru segregation and the civil rights era are still greatly affecting our social structure in this country. Obviously its hard for a lot of people these days to fully accept that because we weren't around to see the worst of it. A lot of people pretty much just see the poverty/crime etc in the black community and think "why don't they just suck it up and make a living like I did?" Well, when the state still uses a confederate symbol on the flag and things are named after racist figures in history, its a pretty sobering reminder as to why things are the way they are. I don't think keeping any of that stuff around helps anyone.
Clarion Ledger has a poll offering about 4 designs. Current state flag has almost 75% of the vote.
Not a great day for sources
Exactly, that’s why you can’t allow the general public to vote on this. Just change the damn thing
Not to go too far down this rabbit hole BUT I have to address a couple things. I work with poor black kids as well as successful black colleagues and I will say this, each individual has a choice to make about their own success in life. The people I work with will tell you the same thing. Now, if you want to say that for a middle class white person like myself that choice was easier then I’d agree. It is extremely tough for a young black male to choose his own education and success over being accepted by their peers. And to be honest I thing there are a lot of things that go into that other than our flag and what it means to some people. Go to the inner city of pretty much any large metropolitan area and you’re going to see the exact same thing goin on as you see in the heart of the Deep South. So I have a hard time saying that the current south and our current flag are solely to blame. In fact I’d say that the available avenues to success for black kids in particular are vast and highly available to the individuals wanting to take advantage. I could go on but I don’t wanna ruin the thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by chef dixon
I guess it's in in the eye of the beholder. To me, if someone is flying a MS flag today, I just think he is a proud Mississippian, not a racist. Just like flying the American flag, to me, means you are a proud American, not a communist. Just like flying a go Irish flag means you are a fan of the Irish, not a drunk Irish a**hole (or any other negative thing you can think of).Quote:
Originally Posted by SheltonChoked
So in trying best answer your question from my perspective, people perceive the flag differently. You obviously perceive it as a racist symbol and I told you already that I can agree with that. I just try not to get caught up with inanimate objects being racists. I won't pre-judge anybody about flying the MS flag before meeting them. Now if they flew a KKK flag or a swastika flag like you mentioned earlier( bad comparison by the way), I think these type flags or symbols are more specific and do reveal more about that person. But I guess once again it's in the eye of the beholder.
I think we've had this dialogue enough and if we can't reach common ground, that's ok too.
Just know that I understand if you think the flag has racial undertones. I can agree to that. But if I choose to fly that flag, it doesn't make me a racist. I think our common ground is that we can just change the flag and move on, because like I said in the beginning, it doesn't matter to me if they change it. Anyway, good day sir. God Bless.
The problem with that poll is that the other 3 choices are going to spilt the vote.Quote:
Originally Posted by starkvegasdawg
Even NASCAR is dropping hints...how bout we listen
http://www.cbssports.com/nascar/news...al-anthem/amp/
I don't mean this rude, but you don't live or travel outside of Mississippi much.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bdawg
And you are confusing my problem with the canton of the Mississippi flag with the entirety of the flag.
The Canton of the Mississippi state flags is the KKK flag. I used the swastika on purpose as it was not originally a symbol of hate. It's symbolism was distorted by a group that killed millions and thought some races of people inferior.
The confederate battle flag was created as a symbol of hate.
And I'm not calling you a racist, but wouldn't it be nice to fly your state flag without having to defend that point?
Not blaming it solely on the flag and yes you are right it is a nation wide problem not just the South. That's because our entire nation was built on slavery at some point. I'm glad the black people you work with have that viewpoint but the majority of black people would not agree with that. Evidenced by the state of our nation currently. The opportunities in place for black people from a white mans perspective seem like fantastic avenues, but there are still so many things working against them to make it to that point. But also agree it's a deep rabbit hole discussion.Quote:
Originally Posted by shoeless joe
FIFYQuote:
Originally Posted by Dawg2003
Minor edit
You don't know how much I travel. Once again... assumptions. And I was just meaning a flag with the actual letters KKK. You also seem to be forgetting the fact that I don't care if they change the flag. I don't have to defend anything either. I know what I feel in my heart and don't have to have you to label me or tell me what I'm am projecting because I don't denounce the flag. Now good day sirQuote:
Originally Posted by SheltonChoked
By the way, I'm not standing up for it either. I'm good both ways.