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Yeah but you called the ACC awful...they are right there with them then. I think the AAC west is a good division but I also don’t just take a computer ranking and that be the end all be all. It’s a good competitive division I just don’t see it above the ACC yet when looking at actual games played recentlyQuote:
Originally Posted by Pipedream
He should be at risk his own job with the Moorhead hireQuote:
Originally Posted by CadaverDawg
Well, it's all relative, right? The ACC is weak for a power 5 conference, but the AAC is strong for a G5 division. Do you know how well those teams have to perform every game to jump the inherit sos advantage a power 5 conference has in the formula? It's pretty substantial. Doesn't have to be the end all be all, but there's multiple analytics rankings that feel the same way about this question. You think they're all wrong? So far you've brought up games for up to 3 years ago which have no relevance to this season.Quote:
Originally Posted by Really Clark?
Well then, let's dig up the, Bear!Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooterpoot
Art Briles is a HS coach now. He's not touching another college gig, especially not a P5 gig.Quote:
Originally Posted by BuckyIsAB****
?
Who is the best coach, under 55 years of age, we could hire who would stay at MSU if he became a winner and even won the west and or SEC?
Names, please.
BTW I like Norvell. Would he stay if he could win at MSU even to Merlin's degree?
The truth is that we have the cash to make it hard to leave but we are also capped at a 4 year contract whereas other schools don't have that. A&M had to give Jimbo 10 years to get him. We don't have that option even if Urban Meyer wanted to come to MSU. Mullen left $6 Mil on the table but it was $6 Mil at 4 years. He got fulled guaranteed $6 Mil at 6 years. That is another $12 Mil guaranteed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Percho
Saying that, we really shouldn't get poached by anyone but upper tier blue bloods with our available revenue now. We will always have the risk of losing our coach to someone like UF, UGA, or Bama but the likelyhood of losing someone to Rutgers that we actually want to keep is very small.
We would be fools not to hire Norvell. If he has a red flag that is scaring off big time programs then it is even more important we snag him as proven HCs in the prime of their careers do not sniff at our job.
Do we want a proven HC or do we not? Simple question. If yes, go get the man.
That's unfortunate...Quote:
Originally Posted by BuckyIsAB****
I do not think it is about the money, other than, money as shown as prestige. I think for someone like M it was the appearance of prestige. Tenn is better than, Ga is better than, Miami is better than, Fl is better than.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe
He came here with that in mind. Who under 55 would stay as a winner, that has the possibility, as a coach, of being a winner?
I think for Mullen, it was where is it easier to recruit. He is a great on the field coach and everyone knows that you would have to be god awful to get worse than a top 25 recruiting class at UF. Now to get up into the top 10 then it takes some work but for someone that hates recruiting, it makes your job easier. He also immediately had the talent level to at least compete with UGA and Bama. He gets that talent every year without really working at it. That gets him closer to his goal of winning a National Title.Quote:
Originally Posted by Percho
I do think he flirted with Maryland, 1.) for the money ie. longer contract than 4 years. 2.) they probably pitched some type of Oregon-Nike scenario with Under Armour backing. At the end of the day though, he left them hanging for the opportunity to interview with Miami which would be easier recruiting.
Proven vs who? LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by ckDOG
He?s proven he can finish 2nd in a crappy league. No point in hiring anyone from a G5 that can?t win their conference.
How does our talent compare with his?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooterpoot
Better than his. How does his schedule compare to ours?Quote:
Originally Posted by Percho
Is the talent on his team that much greater than the rest of the teams on his schedule?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooterpoot
Where do you believe he would finish with our team this and the last three years in our league? Where we finished? Worse than we finished? Better than we finished?
Compare him as a coach to Dan.
Just noting.... as we all know....Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooterpoot
Memphis beat OM at home to open the season. We shall see how it turns out for us.
Yes. Proven. As in showing he can win games on a consistent basis at a shitty football school. In the south. Recruiting players that grow up in the culture and high school systems we recruit from. What else do you need from someone we can actually hire? Are you suggesting our definition of proven should be an over performing HC in a strong conference at a historically mediocre program? If so, those coaches end up at Florida. Reset your evaluation of the market.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooterpoot
Proven vs who? You guys can’t answer that, because they literally beat no damn body. I’ve already said if we take a G5 HC they should’ve at least won their damn shitty conference. What part of that did you not understand? Novell is who we’d go to if everybody else shot us down. At that point, you’d settle.Quote:
Originally Posted by ckDOG
And Plumlee didn?t play. They struggled to put points on OM too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maroonthirteen
We aren't pulling a winning HC from a P5 program unless there's something abnormal going on. I get what you are saying about Norvell, but he's also lost his conference to UCF who has been the best G5 program in the country the last 5 years. Call it shitty all you want but UCF regularly beat quality P5 programs when they got the chance. Cincy, SMU, and Houston are also no slouches at the G5 level the last 5 or so seasons. So we can holler about not winning his "shitty conference" all we want and it sounds good in a vacuum, but it's also ignoring some major factors that give context to the statement and we'd be fools to eliminate the guy because he lost to arguably the best G5 team since Boise st's prime in OT in the 2017 AAC conference championship game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooterpoot
Hey if you aren?t willing to let competition of a shitty program against relative talent let HC talent shine through I can?t help you. And if you think Mike Norvell isn?t at the top of the list of known commodities in the prime of their years you are in for disappointment. What coaches would shut us down before we went to Norvell? Pipe dreams that meet your proven standard and maybe Fritz and Clark - both who shouldn?t qualify as proven either if we are going to discount crap conference HCs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooterpoot
good thing we didn't have Memphis on the schedule this season.........
I discount overall performance vs quality competition when it?s a crap conference. The guy has literally beaten no one. Give me a quality proven assistant at a top program over him. Name Novell?s big wins...and you guys bitches about Mullen not beating ranked teams and floundering vs top programs. This guy can?t even win a bowl game. Imagine us never winning a bowl game under a coach. We?d be raising hell.Quote:
Originally Posted by ckDOG
We hired a guy that was demoted from OC at UConn. John Cohen 17?d up that ?search?. He looked at one year at Penn St. And considering the talent they had, they underperformed. Novell has won nothing. Absolutely nothing. Expand your vision and look around. There are plenty of good coaches willing to take $5M and this job. But Cohen went $3M on this chump we?ve got.
I’ll ask again, who has he beaten? You’re still sitting on your hands.
A little more:
Wins over teams with winning records-
2016- 2
2017- 3
2018- 1
This year he has 3 but one is a SWAC team.
Was Moorhead, a quality proven assistant, when we hired him? Would the national talking heads have considered him, a quality proven assistant?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooterpoot
Here is 5 mil, who would you hire?
How long will he stay, if he can win the west in his first 5 years?
Should we just go ahead and order the rings when we hire him?
I?ll rehash his record that is easily verified after you give names of more proven coaches that we can actually hire at MSU.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooterpoot
SI loved him. But nobody looked at him. They went off that one big year. Never go after one big year. And you obviously missed my statement about him being demoted in his previous big job.Quote:
Originally Posted by Percho
Who cares if a coach stays 4/5 years o 10 years. That doesn’t matter.
Still waiting on you guys to tell me who worth talking about Novell has beaten. Moorhead has as many wins vs winning record teams as Norvell in a year and a half that he had in two years and only one less than him in three years.
That’s what I thought. You chimed in and got nothing. I mean, this thread is about Norvell, not me. I’ll give my list when we get to that point. We’ll see who is out there and realistic. But Norvell has done nothing. If you want to be one of those State fans that think we can’t do this or that, well, you’re part of the problem. I go in another direction and circle back if we miss. Schools haven’t been beating down Norvells door.Quote:
Originally Posted by ckDOG
I’ve told you why I don’t think he’s the guy. And I proved numbers to back up my position. I’m waiting for you to tell us why he’s the guy. Something other than, he’s the best we can do or he’s a good coach (without something significant to prove it).
Jesus Christ. He?s 32-15 with an excellent offense that has excelled despite losing NFL talent during his tenure. Their last 3 coaches over 15 seasons were 78- 106. Fuente was barely 500. You have to look at coaches relative to their environment bc we don?t have a blank check and can?t pluck an elite coach away from a premier program where it?s a no doubter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooterpoot
Being grounded in reality doesn?t hold us back. Again....who are your prospects? Assume we pay 5 million a year. Who can we sign that is a slam dunk proven hire?
Norvell may not be the answer or a good SEC coach- but he is better than what we have now
That's what I'm talking about. How many teams with winning records has Jomo beaten last and this season? Hell, its a good thing we didn't have memphis on our schedule or Norvell would have another win against a team with a losing record.
If we wait for more than 1-2 good years to provide a large enough sample size to ascertain a coordinator's abilities across multiple player cycles (vs. capitalizing on an elite group over 2 years like Moorhead did), then someone else is gonna have hired them already or they are waiting for a program bigger than the Mississippi state's of the CFB world (venables).Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooterpoot
You didn't prove numbers, you provided evidence to support your position. Just as I countered with evidence that losing in the 2017 AAC championship to UCF in OT shouldn't eliminate a coach from our search. Based on your statements, if Norvell had won that game he'd be a wonderful candidate. That's a mighty fine line to me that probably has more to do with some 2* no name kid dropping a pass or missing a tackle than actual coaching acumen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooterpoot
Norvell may or may not be a good P5 coach, maybe there's substance behind the rumors, but all I'm saying is your reasoning for eliminating him from consideration is pretty flimsy when you consider the context.
You can't look at the schedule because he doesn't have the OPPORTUNITY to play a schedule like ours. If he's dominating that league and he's finishing second to what amounts to the Alabama of G5 schools he's probably a pretty good coach.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooterpoot
Exactly. We have to take some risk with any coach or risk missing the boat completely.Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgs
Yes ^^^^^^Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
It can be done hiring a good Coach, but odds or slim, history tell us. I'd still ask Bret Venable and I do think he would be a risk.
He’s lost to every decent team he’s played out of conference. That’s all I need to know.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
Hell, you’d be better than what we have now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
His excellent offense struggled to put up points vs shitty OM. But we all know where each of us stand on him. So I’ll let it go.Quote:
Originally Posted by ckDOG
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooterpoot
No!!!!