Joe Moorhead article in The Athletic

After reading thread after thread like this, I'm convicted we should fire Moorehead and hire C34. He was offensive assistant COY or something like that and will surely lead us to wins over Bama and LSU.

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Originally Posted by RezDog7

After reading thread after thread like this, I'm convicted we should fire Moorehead and hire C34. He was offensive assistant COY or something like that and will surely lead us to wins over Bama and LSU.

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Just don't hire Chip Kelly because he didn't improve UCLA enough.

I think some of our fans have made up their mind unfortunately. I'm going the opposite way. I'll support MSU and our coach until there is a reason not to. Giving up on him for only winning 8 games is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. I mean, how many times has MSU won 8 games in the history of the program. Stop acting like your Bama or OM and give the dude another year two.

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Originally Posted by RezDog7

I think some of our fans have made up their mind unfortunately. I'm going the opposite way. I'll support MSU and our coach until there is a reason not to. Giving up on him for only winning 8 games is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. I mean, how many times has MSU won 8 games in the history of the program. Stop acting like your Bama or OM and give the dude another year two.

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???

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Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

But that's because he didn't sign enough players. If he would've signed a full 25, the average would have gone down

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Depends on who he would have signed, no?

And even so, signing 4 more mid to high three stars to get to 25 would have increased the ranking from 24 to 20 anyway.

All that said, recruitingbrankings outside the top 150 players are notoriously iffy, at best.

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Originally Posted by bluelightstar

https://theathletic.com/958264/2019/...ons-sec-coach/

Interesting read. A few points:

1. Taking a larger role in the offense with Getsy's departure
2. Thought some players had success doing things a certain way and maybe were "resistant" (my words, not his) to some different offensive things.
3. Season was overall a success

Quote in there from an unidentified staffer; "it was made out like we inherited the '72 Dolphins"

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The 72 Dolphin comment was spot on. We were very good on defense but the offensive talent was not nearly as strong. Many had very unrealistic expectations going in.

2 things to point out in this discussion:
1. The "72 Dolphins" quote, no matter who actually said it, is parroting off of something Joe said himself in a February Q&A with David Murray of 247. He's the one instilling that horse shit mindset.
2. Mullen recruited elite MS players better than Moorhead to this point if you go off the % of blue chips signed. I do agree that Moorhead has been more successful out of state. Overall he's been, at best, on par with our late stage Mullen recruiting profile.

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Originally Posted by bluelightstar

???

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Bama - real expectations and attainable goals
OM - real expectations with unattainable goals

I still say joe will be as successful as dan was here, which was pretty damn good. And I think his ceiling is slightly higher

What's crazy to me is we only hear about the bad offensive games, not the good wins against Auburn and A&M. I'm willing to bet that A&M will be in contention to win the west this year.

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Originally Posted by Political Hack

An assistant said that about the 72' Dolphins?

What a pansy. Had arguably the most talented defense in the country and he's bitching about high expectations... in the SEC. That's Croomesque. Blaming the talent or the players for a lack of adjustments and creativity.

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Yep. That quote is complete crap. Good coaches make no excuses and take responsibility, they don't question the talent level or people's expectations.

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Originally Posted by RezDog7

What's crazy to me is we only hear about the bad offensive games, not the good wins against Auburn and A&M. I'm willing to bet that A&M will be in contention to win the west this year.

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I'm willing to give you that Auburn was a good game offensively. It's the kind of game we should have played all year. A&M, we put up 384 yards of offense. Pretty good, not great by any means. And the reason you hear about the bad offensive games is that there were several of them and they were really, really bad.

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Originally Posted by smootness

I'm willing to give you that Auburn was a good game offensively. It's the kind of game we should have played all year. A&M, we put up 384 yards of offense. Pretty good, not great by any means. And the reason you hear about the bad offensive games is that there were several of them and they were really, really bad.

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Fair enough, but it's not like defenses didn't know what Fitz limitations were so they stacked the box and dared us to throw. Receivers were open. They were just over thrown or dropped the pass. I agree the running backs should've been more involved though. I'm hoping things improve this year, because if not, he will lose the entire fan base based on reading these message boards.

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Originally Posted by smootness

Yep. That quote is complete crap. Good coaches make no excuses and take responsibility, they don't question the talent level or people's expectations.

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Yeah, I've never heard a good coach make excuses before.**

Tom Landry, maybe my all-time favorite coach and considered one of the best ever, made excuses after every loss. God bless him, but Tom never went into a game that he didn't have the perfect game-plan.

I've heard Saban do it. Dan was making excuses and trying to temper fan expectations in 2016 for sure. All coaches do it, but the key is if you're making excuses too much you're losing too much.

The fuss over this quote is like the fuss over the Outback rings - it shows you where people stand.

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Originally Posted by RezDog7

Fair enough, but it's not like defenses didn't know what Fitz limitations were so they stacked the box and dared us to throw.

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Yet in the 2nd half of the season he threw 12 TD's and 2 picks. Should have been 13/1 but Guidry had to bobble a pass that hit him in the chest and turn it into a pick

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Originally Posted by Coach34

Yet in the 2nd half of the season he threw 12 TD's and 2 picks. Should have been 13/1 but Guidry had to bobble a pass that hit him in the chest and turn it into a pick

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So are you saying Fitz improved in the 2nd half of the season?

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Originally Posted by Maroonthirteen

Bottom line, Moorhead did a good job.

Some may not want to hear this, but an 8 win season is a good season. Any way you slice it.

I agree with anonymous. Defensively, we were hell. But we busted a coverage in the outback that cost us big time. So we weren?t perfect. Offensively our passing game was terrible for
Many reasons and not just on one guy.

Moorhead had a successful first year.

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Agree we had a good season, not as good as it could have been but under all the newness, a successful first year. It would have taken some effort though to have not had a decent year with that D.

As with any organization that gets a new leader there is always difficulty in doing things different and the team figuring out their cheese (Book - who moved my cheese).

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Originally Posted by DancingRabbit

Yeah, I've never heard a good coach make excuses before.**

Tom Landry, maybe my all-time favorite coach and considered one of the best ever, made excuses after every loss. God bless him, but Tom never went into a game that he didn't have the perfect game-plan.

I've heard Saban do it. Dan was making excuses and trying to temper fan expectations in 2016 for sure. All coaches do it, but the key is if you're making excuses too much you're losing too much.

The fuss over this quote is like the fuss over the Outback rings - it shows you where people stand.

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I shouldn't have said 'make no excuses,' that was definitely an overexaggeration to make a point. But I do think there's a difference in trying to lower expectations or speaking in a moment of frustration and retroactively trying to play down the talent level you had because of your results.

Moorhead himself was playing up expectations, or at the very least doing nothing to play them down, prior to the season. He said typical new-coach things like, 'We want to win championships' and that kind of thing, but he also specifically said he wanted to be ranked high preseason and that no one would have higher expectations than the coaching staff. He said nothing about the talent level not being what people thought it was, he just said he welcomed the expectations. Now he tries to come after those who had high expectations saying, 'And I know there was a lot of outside expectation and perception that we were an amalgamation of the ’85 Bears and ’72 Dolphins!' - that was literally his quote to Murray 2 months ago. That is just a tool thing to say to try to downplay, in hindsight, the expectations and talent level of the team. Just crap. Great coaches simply don't say things like that.

Outside of the Alabama game (where he still didn’t play great), Fitz mainly played trash defenses the second half of the year. That was the reason his stats were better. Texas A&M was his best game of the second half of the year and their pass D was really bad.

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Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

I get what you're saying but good offensive coaches usually turn things around in year 2. Constantly saying they don't have the right QB yet just more often than not leads to a Croom situation where a guy runs a program into the ground over 5 years.

You just simply can't give it that long. If he can't get things headed in the right direction this year, then his offense is extremely too rigid & isn't creative enough

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Agree, we can't have another Croom derail. We should see stark improvement in O this year or I'm concerned.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

Yet in the 2nd half of the season he threw 12 TD's and 2 picks. Should have been 13/1 but Guidry had to bobble a pass that hit him in the chest and turn it into a pick

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Just stop... you're making stuff up without providing any context or facts to support it.

It seems like you've conveniently left out the LSU game in your "2nd half of the season" stats, even though they were our 7th opponent.

Also, you failed to mention he threw for a whopping 363 yds. combined against Bama, Ark, and Ole Miss. Two of those teams were the worst in the league on defense.

Take a look if you care to know the truth:
https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb...ald-2/gamelog/

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Originally Posted by Coach34

9-4 in 2017
3 1st round picks and a 6th round pick on D, plus 4 signed as a FA returning on D

Offense had the top 2 QB's returning- one the SEC all-time leading rusher who completed 55.6% of his passes in 2017
Top 7 rushers returning- including a 1,000 yard back
8 guys returning that caught passes in 2017
4 starters returning on the OL

17 starters returning overall

Went 8-5

I'll repeat it again- we made the necessary offensive changes vs Auburn after the Kentucky/Fla debacles to win with over 400 yards of offense. Auburn finished 4th in the SEC in scoring D. And we never did it again- why? Because we decided we would rather lose running our offense as opposed to what was best for the 2018 team.

What about all that screams "good job"?

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This all day.

Take every Power 64 coach from 2018. How many wouldn't have won at least 8 games with our roster? 20? 10? I don't know, but I imagine 8-5 would be somewhere around the mean. Which means we had a very average coach last year.

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Originally Posted by RezDog7

What's crazy to me is we only hear about the bad offensive games, not the good wins against Auburn and A&M. I'm willing to bet that A&M will be in contention to win the west this year.

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What is crazy to me is that Aggie over under win total in Vegas is 7.5. Ours is 8.

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Originally Posted by smootness

I shouldn't have said 'make no excuses,' that was definitely an overexaggeration to make a point. But I do think there's a difference in trying to lower expectations or speaking in a moment of frustration and retroactively trying to play down the talent level you had because of your results.

Moorhead himself was playing up expectations, or at the very least doing nothing to play them down, prior to the season. He said typical new-coach things like, 'We want to win championships' and that kind of thing, but he also specifically said he wanted to be ranked high preseason and that no one would have higher expectations than the coaching staff. He said nothing about the talent level not being what people thought it was, he just said he welcomed the expectations. Now he tries to come after those who had high expectations saying, 'And I know there was a lot of outside expectation and perception that we were an amalgamation of the ’85 Bears and ’72 Dolphins!' - that was literally his quote to Murray 2 months ago. That is just a tool thing to say to try to downplay, in hindsight, the expectations and talent level of the team. Just crap. Great coaches simply don't say things like that.

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I think the tone and level of discontent annoyed Joe a few times. Whether he ever said a thing about Heismans or rings or the 85 has nothing to do with win totals or being able to find things to bitch about. If he had never said those 3 things the fans that don't like Joe would find something.

Color me skeptical, but I never bought into the Heisman and championship talk.

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Originally Posted by confucius say

What is crazy to me is that Aggie over under win total in Vegas is 7.5. Ours is 8.

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Look at A&Ms schedule. They play Clemson, Georgia, and the SEC west. They will struggle to win 8. We play a bunch of nobodies in nonconference and get Kentucky & Tennessee. We have a better chance to win 8 than they do and they will have a better team than us.

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Originally Posted by Gutter Cobreh

Just stop... you're making stuff up without providing any context or facts to support it.

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I was completely factual in my post. When you have good facts- there is no need to make anything up.

A&M- 2/0
La Tech- 4/0
Bama- 0/0
UPig- 4/0
Mississippi- 1/0
Iowa- 1/2 (one being on Guidry)

That is not made up- complete fact

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Originally Posted by Jarius

Look at A&Ms schedule. They play Clemson, Georgia, and the SEC west. They will struggle to win 8. We play a bunch of nobodies in nonconference and get Kentucky & Tennessee. We have a better chance to win 8 than they do and they will have a better team than us.

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Yep. aTm could be really good and still be 8-4

Here's what will be hilarious. If we go 7-5, which many on here have said is best case next year, those same people are going to lose their shit when we go 7-5. God I can't believe we lost that game. Man Moorhead sucks. What a terrible game plan.

It's going to happen, so none of this matters. Unless we go 10-2 or better, our fan base is going to find a way for complain.

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Originally Posted by PMDawg

This all day.

Take every Power 64 coach from 2018. How many wouldn't have won at least 8 games with our roster? 20? 10? I don't know, but I imagine 8-5 would be somewhere around the mean. Which means we had a very average coach last year.

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Croom could have won 8 last season for us

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Originally Posted by MetEdDawg

Here's what will be hilarious. If we go 7-5, which many on here have said is best case next year, those same people are going to lose their shit when we go 7-5. God I can't believe we lost that game. Man Moorhead sucks. What a terrible game plan.

It's going to happen, so none of this matters. Unless we go 10-2 or better, our fan base is going to find a way for complain.

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Not me. I said 6-7 wins and I'll be ok this year. We aren't very good going into 2019

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Originally Posted by msstate7

Yep. aTm could be really good and still be 8-4

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So your boy Jimbo gets a pass that you won't give Moorhead? And he is in year 2 not year 1.

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Originally Posted by msstate7

Yep. aTm could be really good and still be 8-4

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I understand everyone's frustration with our offense in those tough games but you are basically giving Jimbo a pass when Moorhead did this exact same thing. We lost 4 games to teams in the top 12 with 3 of those on the road, any other time in MSU history and everyone would chalk that up to just a tough schedule.

The only loss outside the top 12 was Iowa and we win that game if Guidry makes just a routine catch that any college WR should make 99 times out of 100.

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Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe

I understand everyone's frustration with our offense in those tough games but you are basically giving Jimbo a pass when Moorhead did this exact same thing. We lost 4 games to teams in the top 12 with 3 of those on the road, any other time in MSU history and everyone would chalk that up to just a tough schedule.

The only loss outside the top 12 was Iowa and we win that game if Guidry makes just a routine catch that any college WR should make 99 times out of 100.

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They are also giving Jethro up at Tennessee a pass. He inherited a top 20 recruiting roster, goes 5-7, and everyone is scared to death he is going to improve and beat us in Knoxville. Our coach gets held to a different standard than everyone else’s does on this board, and I was fighting mad at losing 5 games without roster.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

Croom could have won 8 last season for us

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Oh My God!!!

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Originally Posted by MetEdDawg

Here's what will be hilarious. If we go 7-5, which many on here have said is best case next year, those same people are going to lose their shit when we go 7-5. God I can't believe we lost that game. Man Moorhead sucks. What a terrible game plan.

It's going to happen, so none of this matters. Unless we go 10-2 or better, our fan base is going to find a way for complain.

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People love to bitch. It's really a national past time now.

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Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg

So your boy Jimbo gets a pass that you won't give Moorhead? And he is in year 2 not year 1.

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He faces 3 playoff contenders (2 on the road) and LSU at tiger stadium. Our schedule was tough last year, but no where near this

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Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe

I understand everyone's frustration with our offense in those tough games but you are basically giving Jimbo a pass when Moorhead did this exact same thing. We lost 4 games to teams in the top 12 with 3 of those on the road, any other time in MSU history and everyone would chalk that up to just a tough schedule.

The only loss outside the top 12 was Iowa and we win that game if Guidry makes just a routine catch that any college WR should make 99 times out of 100.

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They face the top 3 teams in the country, and LSU will be top 10

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Originally Posted by Coach34

Croom could have won 8 last season for us

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You are one stupid mother****er

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Originally Posted by PMDawg

This all day.

Take every Power 64 coach from 2018. How many wouldn't have won at least 8 games with our roster? 20? 10? I don't know, but I imagine 8-5 would be somewhere around the mean. Which means we had a very average coach last year.

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Lets not factor in level of opponent at all and this post would make sense. 2017 1 Ranked win LSU. A bowl win vs a Peter Sirmon defense is the only difference in Record.

Now lets look at 2018 5 Losses LSU finished #6, KY finished #12, Bama #2, Iowa #25, FL #7 with a coach that knew everything about our Roster. Similar results with a much tougher Schedule. We are all disappointed but lets stop acting like we regressed horribly. Didn't happen, we were similar both years and lost to good defenses both years.

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Originally Posted by DancingRabbit

I think the tone and level of discontent annoyed Joe a few times. Whether he ever said a thing about Heismans or rings or the 85 has nothing to do with win totals or being able to find things to bitch about. If he had never said those 3 things the fans that don't like Joe would find something.

Color me skeptical, but I never bought into the Heisman and championship talk.

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Not true for me. I never bought all that talk either. I thought those statements were setting himself up for ridicule any way.

And I'm not even that concerned with our record. 8 wins isn't terrible, and probably the best we could have hoped for was 10. There's just a lot of things that add up to my skepticism of him at this point, and last year's record is only one of them. And while I'm skeptical, I haven't given up on him. I hope he learned from last year and gets better this year. It wouldn't take a whole heck of a lot to change my mind on him - but so far, I haven't seen much to give me a positive feeling. The fact that he views last year as a success is a little disconcerting. Maybe he's just a positive guy, but I don't think that's something you would hear Saban, Dabo, Urban, Kirby, etc. say after the way last season unfolded.

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Here's what will be hilarious. If we go 7-5, which many on here have said is best case next year, those same people are going to lose their shit when we go 7-5. God I can't believe we lost that game. Man Moorhead sucks. What a terrible game plan.

It's going to happen, so none of this matters. Unless we go 10-2 or better, our fan base is going to find a way for complain.

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As someone who expects 6-6 +/-1 game, you won't hear me complain. I'll be completely satisfied with 7-5, and ecstatic with anything better. 6-6, I won't be mad, but it will just give me confirmation about how I feel about Joe.