2 more to Tommy John

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Originally Posted by msstate7

I just don't get how you rip mullen and the football team consistently, but God forbid someone question Can and the baseball team. Our baseball team led by Can is the closest thing to perfect since Jesus walked the earth

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I can answer for ISID, Canny has been on the job less than a few months, hasn't had time to recruit yet, still learning who is who, injuries have plagued this pitching staff.

Give the Coach a chance without bitching so much in February, geez.

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Originally Posted by basedog

I can answer for ISID, Canny has been on the job less than a few months, hasn't had time to recruit yet, still learning who is who, injuries have plagued this pitching staff.

Give the Coach a chance without bitching so much in February, geez.

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To me it's the opposite. Mullen is our best FB coach ever. He deserves the benefit of the doubt much more than a new coach.

BTW, I'm very much in Can's corner... doesn't mean I have to agree with everything he does. When I'm wrong about things, I'm quick to post I was wrong... I own what I say

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Originally Posted by I seen it dawg

Somewhere between 9 and 23. Look I've known since the summer we were gonna be hard pressed to be top of sec this year. We've lost too much in the lineup (although I'm pleasantly surprised by the new pieces and think we are gonna be ok there) and the 4 pitching injuries before these 2 new ones. It's just too hard in this league to compete with that happening. That being said we are going to compete and while I think we will prob be somewhere around 12-14 wins this team is going to grow a lot and improve.

I just get tired of the certain posters raising all kinds of mortal hell about our baseball team when they can't see all the obstacles in place before we even started the season. Tons of talent but unproven. Injury ravaged pitching staff. New HC that didn't have a full summer and fall at school. I just don't get why some posters think that is a recipe for repeating as SEC champs. But keep screaming at players in the hope it will magically change I'm gonna enjoy this year and watching our talent grow and get better.

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I'm already prepared for it. We may not be last but we are looking at being in bottom third of the SEC at this point. Just amazes me how much trouble we have consistently fielding a Top 20 baseball team with all of the emphasis we put on it. Have to hand it to Bianco, they may not always achieve what we do but they don't fall back into mediocrity either. At this point I will be pleasantly surprised if we make a regional even as a 2 or 3 seed.

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Originally Posted by msstate7

To me it's the opposite. Mullen is our best FB coach ever. He deserves the benefit of the doubt much more than a new coach.

BTW, I'm very much in Can's corner... doesn't mean I have to agree with everything he does. When I'm wrong about things, I'm quick to post I was wrong... I own what I say

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Canny will be very good over time, you and others need to be patient, this is a very young team without much experience on the mound.

We talking about February!!!

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Originally Posted by basedog

Canny will be very good over time, you and others need to be patient, this is a very young team without much experience on the mound.

We talking about February!!!

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Btw 7, do you realize we have only 3 regulars from last year in the lineup, Grid, Rooker and Jake, the rest played part time such as Brown & Stovall. No starting Sec pitcher either. Go figure.

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Originally Posted by basedog

Canny will be very good over time, you and others need to be patient, this is a very young team without much experience on the mound.

We talking about February!!!

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I hope he is very good. Not sure what you're basing the prediction on though. The can hire is similar to sirmon. You got 2 ex-pro players in their sports, considered rising stars, both considered big time recruiters, and both jumped up to positions they've never held. I hope can works out better than sirmon

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Originally Posted by msstate7

I hope he is very good. Not sure what you're basing the prediction on though. The can hire is similar to sirmon. You got 2 ex-pro players in their sports, considered rising stars, both considered big time recruiters, and both jumped up to positions they've never held. I hope can works out better than sirmon

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You should talk to Lsu baseball fans, Canny is well respected by the experts. He has been in Starkville less than 4 months.

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Originally Posted by basedog

Btw 7, do you realize we have only 3 regulars from last year in the lineup, Grid, Rooker and Jake, the rest played part time such as Brown & Stovall. No starting Sec pitcher either. Go figure.

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Pilk started in the sec last year. Marrero, Stovall, Alexander, and brown all started in 20 or more games last year

Pitching has cost this teams losses, not hitting, defense or lineups. With Pitching we wouldn't be having this questioning of Canny.

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Originally Posted by msstate7

I hope he is very good. Not sure what you're basing the prediction on though. The can hire is similar to sirmon. You got 2 ex-pro players in their sports, considered rising stars, both considered big time recruiters, and both jumped up to positions they've never held. I hope can works out better than sirmon

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Would be similar if Sirmon had been hired in July without getting to coach his players prior to August.

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Originally Posted by msstate7

I hope he is very good. Not sure what you're basing the prediction on though. The can hire is similar to sirmon. You got 2 ex-pro players in their sports, considered rising stars, both considered big time recruiters, and both jumped up to positions they've never held. I hope can works out better than sirmon

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Bad analogy between Cann and Sirmon. Cann at LSU was the equivalent of an OC/DC at LSU.

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Originally Posted by msstate7

Pilk started in the sec last year. Marrero, Stovall, Alexander, and brown all started in 20 or more games last year

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Known of those guys were stars last year, mostly role players, we lost way more than what those guys contributed.

Pitching is our problem, with any we would be unbeaten.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

Bad analogy between Cann and Sirmon. Cann at LSU was the equivalent of an OC/DC at LSU.

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Maybe you can make 7 understand, no way can I help him. All I know is what Lsu thought of Canny and the Pro's with his ability to recognize talent, teach hitting and recruit at Lsu.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

Bad analogy between Cann and Sirmon. Cann at LSU was the equivalent of an OC/DC at LSU.

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Maybe so, but PM won before Cann and he'll win without him, so it's hard to credit lsu's success to Cann.

Again- this is not happening because of Wes and his weighted balls. It's happening because of overuse in travel ball. There is a reason why MLB is looking at ways to limit pitching at the youth level and also why there isn't a crusade against weighted balls.

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Originally Posted by basedog

Maybe you can make 7 understand, no way can I help him. All I know is what Lsu thought of Canny and the Pro's with his ability to recognize talent, teach hitting and recruit at Lsu.

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I've gotten in an argument where it looks like I'm saying Can won't be successful and that's hardly my position. I think he can and will be successful... I'm just saying he's not above criticism.

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Originally Posted by msstate7

Maybe so, but PM won before Cann and he'll win without him, so it's hard to credit lsu's success to Cann.

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Well they fired their hitting coach who I think was Javi Sanchez and then when they hired Cann their offensive numbers went through the roof and they almost immediately improved. Not only that but all of their fans and players hated to see Cann go whereas with Sirmon I could care less if the door hit him on his way out.

Not only that but LSU fans were royally pissed at Manieri over the offense and many wanted him gone. That changed after Cann got there. You could possibly argue that Cann saved Manieri's job and at the very least got him off of the hot seat.

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Originally Posted by msstate7

I've gotten in an argument where it looks like I'm saying Can won't be successful and that's hardly my position. I think he can and will be successful... I'm just saying he's not above criticism.

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You can criticize but there are factors that have to be acknowledged that sometimes explain his reasoning. Our three losses this year:

Lost to top 20 Texas Tech and almost came back on them. Not a bad loss.
Lost to Morehead State because we had a guy that we didn't know was hurt fell apart.
Lost to Marist and you can criticize not bringing in Self but we also didn't have Rigby available and I can't blame him for wanting to try to save Self some.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

Again- this is not happening because of Wes and his weighted balls. It's happening because of overuse in travel ball. There is a reason why MLB is looking at ways to limit pitching at the youth level and also why there isn't a crusade against weighted balls.

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Ironically I was ripped unmercifully here last season for my constant criticism of Wes Johnson. I was never impressed with him and said as much

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Originally Posted by msstate7

I just don't get how you rip mullen and the football team consistently, but God forbid someone question Can and the baseball team. Our baseball team led by Can is the closest thing to perfect since Jesus walked the earth

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First Mullen has a body of work that has parts that can be ripped. Baseball has played 9 ****ing games under Cannizzarro. 9!!!! And I certainly never said they were perfect or will be. You are getting close to be worse than the will james poster.

Delete

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Originally Posted by msstate7

Pilk started in the sec last year. Marrero, Stovall, Alexander, and brown all started in 20 or more games last year

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Alexander got 63 AB's last year and then got hurt and didnt play summer ball
Cody had 83 AB's
Stovall 87 AB's
Lovelady had 2 AB's
Gordon had 18

Thats not many in 63 games

Pilkington should be ready to play- but right now- we have 3 pitchers that pitched last year- with Rigby having an injury problem currently.

Getting on a guy that got the job 2 months ago is lunacy right now

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Originally Posted by msstate7

Maybe I'm a "mental midget" like you call our football players

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I'd be insulting mental midgets

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Originally Posted by I seen it dawg

I'd be insulting mental midgets

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Lol

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Originally Posted by I seen it dawg

Somewhere between 9 and 23. Look I've known since the summer we were gonna be hard pressed to be top of sec this year. We've lost too much in the lineup (although I'm pleasantly surprised by the new pieces and think we are gonna be ok there) and the 4 pitching injuries before these 2 new ones. It's just too hard in this league to compete with that happening. That being said we are going to compete and while I think we will prob be somewhere around 12-14 wins this team is going to grow a lot and improve.

I just get tired of the certain posters raising all kinds of mortal hell about our baseball team when they can't see all the obstacles in place before we even started the season. Tons of talent but unproven. Injury ravaged pitching staff. New HC that didn't have a full summer and fall at school. I just don't get why some posters think that is a recipe for repeating as SEC champs. But keep screaming at players in the hope it will magically change I'm gonna enjoy this year and watching our talent grow and get better.

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This^ when you start the year w a 32 man roster and lose 2 more before you are 2 weeks in its devastating. And the components we lost to tj would have gotten a huge chunk of innings. Yes injuries occur to everyone. But not this much. Canny is going to be fine. Just deal w the lumps this year and move on. Nothing he or anybody can do except go to work and play as hard as we can every game out.

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Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe

That is a lot of talented pitchers that we were counting on this year. We need some freshmen to step up like Pilk did last year.

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Lets not forget that 4 of those 6 were gone before we even took the field opening weekend, and losing them hurt way worse than the two recent ones. That is why its laughable that anyone thought this team was a safe bet for the regionals or to even finish over .500. We never were close to having the arms even before the two latest injuries.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

Again- this is not happening because of Wes and his weighted balls. It's happening because of overuse in travel ball. There is a reason why MLB is looking at ways to limit pitching at the youth level and also why there isn't a crusade against weighted balls.

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Both can be true.

Perhaps when dealing with a group of guys who have pitched a ton in travel ball, it's not the best approach to then have them throw max effort constantly in college?

Ok Decision Scientists what is the play with approximately 20% of the roster is unavailable for a multi-season period. Somehow I get the impression we have at least 1 more pitcher not pitching anywhere near demonstrated capabilities.

Given the quality of these players, they probably use up more than 20% of the 11.7 scholarships. I seem to remember Breaux was a full scholarship

Are we stuck with 6 Woodruffs for the next 2/3 seasons? Woodruff is now ok and heading to MLB, but we basically got nothing for MSU

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Originally Posted by The Federalist Engineer

Ok Decision Scientists what is the play with approximately 20% of the roster is unavailable for a multi-season period. Somehow I get the impression we have at least 1 more pitcher not pitching anywhere near demonstrated capabilities.

Given the quality of these players, they probably use up more than 20% of the 11.7 scholarships. I seem to remember Breaux was a full scholarship

Are we stuck with 6 Woodruffs for the next 2/3 seasons? Woodruff is now ok and heading to MLB, but we basically got nothing for MSU

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To me it's a no-brainer... you gotta replace at least 3 of the TJ guys. It's what 18 month recovery? You can't hold spots for that many injured guys

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Originally Posted by smootness

Both can be true.

Perhaps when dealing with a group of guys who have pitched a ton in travel ball, it's not the best approach to then have them throw max effort constantly in college?

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The whole point of getting stronger is so that you can get higher velocity without throwing max effort. Several MLB teams are doing the same program that Wes was doing for us. If his style was OK for them and he hasn't had a lot of Tommy John injuries other places you can't pin it on Wes.

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Originally Posted by The Federalist Engineer

Ok Decision Scientists what is the play with approximately 20% of the roster is unavailable for a multi-season period. Somehow I get the impression we have at least 1 more pitcher not pitching anywhere near demonstrated capabilities.

Given the quality of these players, they probably use up more than 20% of the 11.7 scholarships. I seem to remember Breaux was a full scholarship

Are we stuck with 6 Woodruffs for the next 2/3 seasons? Woodruff is now ok and heading to MLB, but we basically got nothing for MSU

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Process who you can, maybe send some down to JUCO next year to rehab for a season and hope they come back. Absolutely can't carry that much dead weight on the roster for longer than a season though. Honestly, I'd write them all off and go ahead and start recruiting their replacements now. The longer we wait to do that, the longer this rebuild is going to be. There is a pretty high likelihood that none of the 6 will contribute in a meaningful way at MSU....at least not until their senior years if it ever happens.

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Originally Posted by BB30

Eh, you can't pigeon hole kids into certain mechanics. There are certain things that are better than others, but some can't generate what you call drop and drive and others cant go "tall and fall". Every individual is going to be slightly different and you have to see how their body works, how athletic they are, size of the kid etc. There are professionals that have god awful looking mechanics but happen to end up in the same place as a guy with "great mechanics" as far as when front foot hits and torque on arm peaks.

Some are naturally going to put more stress on the arm than others. I think overuse at a young age plays a much larger role than mechanical problems do.

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I agree about pitch counts for sure, but I disagree about mechanics. Teaching a kid to use their legs first is always going to help save their arm. Once they get to a higher level, you might want to change their mechanics to get the most out of them, but at a young age you do everything you can to take pressure off their arms and shoulder.

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Originally Posted by The Federalist Engineer

Ok Decision Scientists what is the play with approximately 20% of the roster is unavailable for a multi-season period. Somehow I get the impression we have at least 1 more pitcher not pitching anywhere near demonstrated capabilities.

Given the quality of these players, they probably use up more than 20% of the 11.7 scholarships. I seem to remember Breaux was a full scholarship

Are we stuck with 6 Woodruffs for the next 2/3 seasons? Woodruff is now ok and heading to MLB, but we basically got nothing for MSU

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We don't have anyone on a fully scholarship. And to add, what they come on rarely ever stays the same. Some go up, some go down, yearly.