Haha, this made me laugh.Quote:
Originally Posted by I seen it dawg
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Haha, this made me laugh.Quote:
Originally Posted by I seen it dawg
People are totally losing their minds about one loss that they blame on the coach. When did they last spend so much time and effort praising his(exact same) decisions that turn to gold?Quote:
Originally Posted by CadaverDawg
There's no balance to it. That is my actual problem. It's all negative all the time. All freak outs all the time. The positive is ignored.
It's not even actual baseball discussion anymore. It's a shitshow about who can bitch the most.
People freak out about him bunting in a lay up game in the midweek. I post that it's the perfect time to work on bunting guys that normally wouldn't and would probably translate to helping us. Gavin Collins lays one down for a hit the following weekend. I bump the thread. The thread gets locked within 5 minutes without explanation. No one wants to talk about it when it works and they had just looked like a donkey. They just want all that to go away quietly.
My bottom line is the positive GREATLY outweighs the negative this year. So, yeah -- maybe he cost us that game. You can certainly argue it and make a compelling case. So what? He has won us more than he's lost us this season -- and not just barely. The team is outplaying their talent level. This team is outplaying the talent level of ANY MSU baseball team of the last(at least) 19 years. And I stopped at that number because I remember the 97 team being the real deal, but do not remember the exact extent of it. Just remember it being the 94 class all grown up and what should have been the final Polk swan song. Literally the best team entering May in the minds of all the people around the country responsible for polls since before I was even seriously thinking about actually driving a vehicle. And 90+% of the posts and thoughts on the matter are negative and bitching about how big of idiot he is. It does not compute.
If Hump was not available then the only real screwup on Cohen's part was panicking a little and pulling Sexton in the 4th inning. Maybe he got enamored with Billingsley from this past Tuesday night but it seems to be a different deal for these guys to have the pressure of pitching on the SEC weekend. I mean Cyr has been great in midweek as well and he had no clue where the strike zone was today. In fact, knowing we couldn't use Humphreys should have made the decision to stick with Sexton longer that much more obvious. And honestly our offense was the biggest issue today. I mean we scored only 2 runs in each of the 2 games in the "regulation innings" and the 3rd run we scored in the 9th inning of the first game we did without a hit. If our pitching had not done as well as it did we could have easily been swept today. Its just that one 9th inning where it was unbelievable that THAT many different guys on college scholarships can't throw a freakin' strike. And how did Paul Young survive making the roster on this team? He is really useless for any meaningful situation and we could have cut him and kept Luke Reynolds and been much better off. I mean if we get one more infielder hurt at this point then we are going to be up a really messy creek.Quote:
Originally Posted by engie
If they are "inexcusable" -- then you want him fired. Period. Otherwise they are not inexcusable.Quote:
Originally Posted by I seen it dawg
I don't remember calling it a good call.Quote:
Why can't we avoid those that even the average baseball person knows is stupid. We got a guy loose in the third just because we want a guy that can spin it in the game if we get the chance? You agree with that shit? Take out our 1b? I know you know baseball because you've told us. I can't believe you would think that's remotely a good call.
I dunno. A baseball idiot would probably put the guy there that played quite a few games there while Rea was out last year. But we'd be up shit creek without a 1B for sure*Quote:
I got another one...what happens if Lowe gets hurt in the 5th and has to come out...what do we do then?
The move that cost the game was little league. Why do it. Cut those moves out. That's the argument.Quote:
Originally Posted by engie
Naturally it's just me. Of course. You are just a singing his praises all over the place. You knew this would be a host team competing for the SEC West and a National Seed all along. You have been singing his praises. How dare I consider otherwise.Quote:
Originally Posted by CadaverDawg
Maybe I'm just tired of defending the guy that has us in the midst of the best season any of us clearly remember -- that many of you were ready to run off 2 months ago. And prettymuch 7 innings ago.
Then maybe instead of commenting in a "Game thread" today, and discussing "today's" games....you should just come back and chat after the season. You jumped in with your bullshit during a GAME THREAD today where people discuss today's games. You just admitted that we are all right, so if you want to just high five about the ranking, create a thread and do it. As for us, we want to discuss today's games...and like you said, Cohen blew it today...so why are you here bitching, again?Quote:
Originally Posted by engie
Truth is, you're only bringing up the record & ranking because we're all correct in our frustrations with Cohen. Now you want to spin it into, "I just think the good outweighs the bad, & we're #5, & no MSU team has been this good in years, etc", but the thing is, nobody is arguing or debating that, and nobody has said The good doesn't outweigh the bad or any of that shit. We all know that. Doesn't mean we can't criticize him when he screws up, or that we can only discuss the good stuff he does. If you can't handle people calling stupid moves "stupid moves", then don't participate.
Better yet Engie you are exactly like Cohen. You know more than anybody else on baseball. **** it I'll bite..give me this team and you the same and I beat your ass 8 out of 10 times . At least it's not as bad as your boy will James who I beat 10 out of 10.
Changing the subject. Putting words in people's mouth. Again.Quote:
Originally Posted by engie
Just pointing it out.
It's ok to admit you're wrong every now & then, eng. May be surprised at the response.
Funny how these people disappeared in the second inning when Cohen called the hit and run that kept us out of the double play and allowed us to score the second (and what would prove to be game-winning) run... I figured to get some positive feedback from this post in the game thread, but I guess not:Quote:
Originally Posted by engie
Also, I must have missed the praise when Cohen called the hit and run in the ninth inning of Thursday's game that started the rally... Or the Robson bunt in the ninth inning of game one today that forced an error and allowed us to take the lead in the first place?Quote:
Originally Posted by messageboardsuperhero
If you're going to criticize him for bad calls (which taking Sexton out was obviously), then you also have to give him credit when things go right.
So your suggestion is to just do it by the book. Correct?Quote:
Originally Posted by I seen it dawg
Ok.
In doing that -- over the course of a season does that team win at/above/or below their talent level?
By asking him to coach chalk -- in this season specifically -- on the subject you have already agreed on(that this team is winning above it's talent level overall) -- you are actually asking him to win less. You want to look at a single specific situation but that's not what a season is. A season is what the sum of the single situations add up to. It's prettymuch like a lib seeing a single situation and figuring out how to fix it -- while ignoring the net effect that act of "fixing" caused.
You can say the move was stupid. Maybe it was. Maybe it cost us a game. But we are still dealing with a constant talent level here. It's still a balance. You don't get to "correct the dumb coaching and therefore play that much more above your actual talent level". The scale doesn't tilt like that. The act of cutting out these "dumb" coaching moves that everyone is freaking out about also cuts out all of the unorthodox ones he makes that turn to gold. Literally the only difference between the two is the execution of the player in the situation they are exposed to. And his methods have resulted in a net positive on the season this year.
Look -- I know you know baseball. Ok. But we already fundamentally disagreed on the way the team can and should be built personality-wise -- especially a John Cohen coached team -- and I don't see any way we are going to agree on this part either.
Exactly my point. Along with the idea that alot more of those decisions are going right this year than are going wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by messageboardsuperhero
Lay off the bottle. You are a legend in your own mind that hasn't done jack shit other than misjudge this team from the very beginning.Quote:
Originally Posted by I seen it dawg
What was I wrong about again?Quote:
Originally Posted by CadaverDawg
Ummm....it's Saturday. Billingsley last pitched on Tuesday. He has had more than adequate time to recover. Yes Billingsley has one pitch- but per Cohen the scouting report said to throw Hanie a guy with spin. We did and Billingsley left the ball up.Quote:
Originally Posted by CadaverDawg
And Cohen touched on why he took Sexton out saying that in a double header the fifth inning is like the seventh inning. I don't necessarily agree with him about taking Sexton out but at least there is some reasoning behind his madness. The thing I disagree with you the most about is Billingsley being an "experiment". He's not. You're acting like he is some random walk on that he just threw out there. That just isn't the case.
This is one of those things where if it works out no one says anything. And even then Billingsley didn't cost us the game because we got the lead later and our other guys blew it. Including at least one of the guys you said we should have thrown.
And to add I looked it up and Billingsley has appeared in 11 games this year. That's one more than Pilkington. Including three SEC games not including the Governor's Cup.
I watched the first game of the double header and Sexton was visibly pissed about getting yanked, it looked like he was chewing mini-me out right there on the mound.
But we walked 10 in that game because of incompetent umpiring, very inconsistent and he squeezed the zone big time. You could see the frustration on our pitchers faces and the tv announcers made reference to it as well.
Thru all the vitriole and essays you still aren't getting what I've been saying bc I guess you are incapable. I've said he gets credit for the good decisions and I'm not bashing him for for the ones that don't work. Not all of them do that's baseball. I'm screaming about the so obviously stupid ones that no little league coach would do that why do we have to do them. Just to be unorthodox? Well that's stupid. Hitting Gordon, taking out Sexton those are stupid so don't do it. Those are the going for it on 4th and 28 in 2nd quarter on your own 10 bc it might work 1/100 times. I'm not ripping him for calling or not calling a hit and run which you want to run your entire genius narrative from.Quote:
Originally Posted by engie
You won't get it so I'm done. You know way more about it than everybody else anyway.
No legend here. Not in the bottle either. I also haven't judged this team yet bc the season isn't over. For being such a great and the best baseball mind on the board you have an extremely obtuse view. Which in baseball makes you just arrogant which means you aren't as hotshit about the game as you think you are. But I know you played so I'll give you a little more credit than blackout, but not much. You're the other end of the spectrum from that posters mentality. You know enough to think you know it all.Quote:
Originally Posted by engie
I "get" it. It's just bullshit. It's a handful of you thinking that "he's just being unorthodox for the sake of it -- we understand baseball better than him -- he's a moron". That's what YOU don't get. He's not making moves to try and lose games just to be able to say at the end of the day that he didn't do it by the book. He's making moves to try and win games. The motivation aspect of the moves is important even if you still think they are stupid. And rather than spending your time here telling everyone how big of idiot he is -- listening to an occasional post game press conference would show that he's generally got pretty good answers for the reasons he makes his moves even when people disagree with them. You disagree with the moves(but only when they don't work). I get it. I still think Cody Brown should be our every day right fielder too -- and Reid Humphreys is a .240 hitter that should never get an AB against a RHP**. Another viewpoint that Cohen has caught everliving hell from you about for well over half a season -- that has been completely abandoned and forgotten now that stats are bearing out that he's been right all along.Quote:
Originally Posted by I seen it dawg
Another football example that isn't even close to the same thing -- but fine. When Gordon becomes this year's Porter as a pinch hitter in the stretch run with a couple of big hits for us when we need a ball mashed(you already forgot about the games he's won us in the role THIS YEAR in the role) -- you can ignore it -- lock it without comment -- and move on to the next topic for meltdown. I already know you will.
Every single word of that can be used to describe you as well. It's funny that you actually said it.Quote:
Originally Posted by I seen it dawg
I've already said Hump made the adjustments he would have to make as I said he would have to do or he should never play, therefore yes I haven't talked about it anymore. I've also said Cody stinks at this point and others have surpassed him and now he shouldn't play, therefore yes I abandoned that. No absolutes in baseball.Quote:
Originally Posted by engie
Gordon hasn't been to the plate on a weekend in what a month? So now he's gonna be Porter? If he continues the next 3 weekends to get consistent PH abs then maybe so bc we need a power threat off the bench and he should be that guy. But with our injury issues right now hard to just do some #engieing and roll a PH out in the 5th inning in the hopes he runs into a solo shot.
Dude you generalize my opinions as if I'm some guy that gripes about Cohen calling a bunt but when it gets thrown into right field say how great it was. Don't be stupid I had held your opinions in more regard.
#engieing
And don't be a moron I know he's not making moves to try and lose games. But there damn sure a few that looking back at them he should think he was.
#engieing
I don't know it all...just more than youQuote:
Originally Posted by engie
Come on, Todd. Billingsley has one good outing in his career vs an SEC team....and that came this past week vs Ole Miss. You really gonna compare that to experience starting against USM, @Florida, A&M, @LSU? Don't be ridiculous.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
Cohen & Wes fell in love with Billingsley over 1 outing, so they went to the well too soon and got cute yesterday, when they should have let Sexton roll. It was what it was. Why even defend it?
I don't give a shit what Billingsley did midweek vs OM....that 1 good outing doesn't mean he bypasses all of the other bullpen guys that have proven more than once that they can do a job in SEC play. I said it when we were making the change, and I still believe it....that was nothing but overreacting to a good midweek appearance by Cohen & Wes, & it never should have happened. You either leave in Sexton, or bring in Rigby, Brown, Houston, etc.
Y'all need to quit stating the obvious that people deserve chances, and they looked good last outing, etc....and look at the damn situation in the game. You don't put a guy into a 2-1 game/2-2 game on the road, in a series clincher, with a National Seed on the line, bc he deserves a chance or bc he had a good midweek outing or looked good for the first time in his career last game. You want to put them in during the 12-5 lead Thurs night? Fine. But you don't trot Billingsley or Ethan Small out there in a huge spot when they've shown zero consistency in their careers, and you have some guys with big game experience available (like the guy that never should have come off the mound).
That's all I'm saying. It's being spun into a different argument, so I'm trying to keep it on track here. And comparing Billingsley to Pilk at this point is just silly. I'm actually shocked you even went there, bc you seem to "get it". That was an engie comment where you say something you don't even believe, just to try & keep from acknowledging that my point is valid.
If you think bringing in Billingsley & Small & Young into a tight SEC game that could have gotten us a sweep & a Nat. Seed, that's your opinion. But I firmly disagree. Sexton, Rigby, Brown, Houston, Smith, would have all been (left in) put in before Billingsley, Small, or Young. Not bc I don't like the last 3, or bc I don't think they can be good (they can, except Young)...just bc they haven't earned that spot, or proven they are ready for that spot, yet. Hell it took Pilkington weeks of starting midweek & looking good before we let him attempt a Sunday start that started 0-0 with 9 innings to play....yet you are wanting to bring Billingskey into a 2-1 game in the last innings of an SEC series clincher with a 2 strike count & the tying run in scoring position bc he had one eye opening appearance midweek? Makes no sense. And it was proven when he didn't deliver. That was a bad decision by Cohen. And then he doubled down with Small and Young, and even Cyr. Just got too cute, again.
Obviously not -- you would beat me head to head with the same team 8 out of 10 and all.Quote:
Originally Posted by I seen it dawg
I simply disagree that using a PH at that point puts us in a bind. Holland played a lot of first last year. Hump had practiced there. Collins had practiced there. It's not a position that you have to play every day for the team to not be totally screwed by needing you over there for an inning or two.
But this type of post is all I'm asking for. I'll leave it alone and still continue to respect your baseball opinion. At least until we drop game one against Mizzou and all hell breaks loose.
Of course. You've proven it by bringing up all the stuff I've gotten wrong either in prediction or analysis about the team this year. If you dig hard enough -- maybe there is actually something out there to be found.Quote:
Originally Posted by I seen it dawg
Engie you and Cohen both do value statistical this/that a little too much for my taste. These guys are correct that Cohen needs to quit making so many decisions based on numbers. But you are also right that they simply never give the man praise for his countless good decisions.Quote:
Originally Posted by engie
You do realize that an ego fight on a message board is usually won by the moderator though, right?
Goat plsQuote:
Originally Posted by Taog Redloh
Main thing, we won 2 out of 3, we might, could or maybe catch or pass the Aggies for the West title. We also might, could or maybe host for a Super Regional. Cohen might, could or maybe be the Sec COY.
Point being we all should be ok with where we are right now as we are heading down the stretch and playing pretty good baseball. We look great winning, we look bad losing, we get some luck winning, we get bad luck losing, we make good strategy moves, we make bad strategy moves. So in saying all of this, ain't it fun when we are ranked so high and the national media is giving us the "IT"?
Let's turn the page on the second game lost Saturday, things look much better the rest of the Sec schedule.
Not sure what you mean here. Are you saying you are too important to be banned?Quote:
Originally Posted by engie
So much focus on the pitching. Bottom line we were playing Alabama. We had 3 hits in the last game. 7 hits in the 2nd game. Now what is the true problem?
Alabama has one of the best pitching staffs in the SEC. And realistically, 7 inning games only make their staff stronger. I'm not worried about our bats too much, we scored 12 in game 1.Quote:
Originally Posted by baseballfan
Quote:
Originally Posted by CadaverDawg
My how soon we forget. Small struck out the side at #1 Florida and Georgia when starting an inning. Look at the strength and is it the right way
Far more bad appearances than good. And even in good outings, he showed little control. So you bring him in with a 2-0 count in a tight game? Horrendous decision. Glad that wasn't the spot that beat us, or Cohen would be catching tremendous hell from our fans.Quote:
Originally Posted by baseballfan
Winning 2 out of 3 on the road is huge. It just eats at you when you're 2 outs from a road sweep and making the road to a Natl. Seed much easier. We can still get it done. I think we have an excellent shot at sweeping Mizzou & Auburn....Arkansas will be tough. They're playing well right now suddenly
You are blindly ignoring Billingsley's outings against LSU and Florida where he allowed no runs. It wasn't falling in love with a guy over one performance.Quote:
Originally Posted by CadaverDawg
Cohen himself explained why he made the decision and didn't mention anything about Billingsley's midweek performance. You are way off base in your opinion of him and there is mounting evidence against your stance.
You may not agree with taking Sexton out but replacing him with a guy with an ERA of 1.89!pn the year is hardly a bad move if you are going to replace him.
http://www.nmnathletics.com/fls/1680...16/plyr_45.htm
These are Billingsley's stats he is and should be one of our main relief pitchers. His ERA is better than Rigby, Houston and comparable to Daniel Brown's relief only appearances. Explain to me why he is undeserving of a role in our bullpen?
I'm saying you are the worst poster in the history of MSU message boards to be giving advice about how to go about arguing with moderators. There is prettymuch no similarity between what always gets you banned and what I'm doing here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taog Redloh
Arguing the positive side is a win/win if you can take the heat when things go wrong. I feel like I've prettymuch worn my blunders over the years. Started threads to call myself a dumb ass on all the major ones. If you are going to approach arguing the way I do, you've got to approach admitting defeat the same way sometimes.
The bottom line is that when the results are better than people expect, they don't mind being wrong so much. It's arguing the negative side and then crowing about being right when people are already pissed off about the on field results that ends in vacations.
And I admit to generally being a sports optimist. It's a decision I made consciously in the last couple of years rather than a thought process I can't escape. My actual life/work is spent as a realist that leans toward pessimism. I can revert to that in my approach to sports just as naturally. But at that point, sports are no different than the real world -- when I actually watch them as an escape from all that.
Only when morons are involved...about your size shoeQuote:
Originally Posted by Taog Redloh
Probably saying he's not an idiot. And the fact it's possible to get really heated in a debate without going full retard smashing keyboards.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taog Redloh