we'll beat Auburn in Sville next yearQuote:
Originally Posted by dawgs
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we'll beat Auburn in Sville next yearQuote:
Originally Posted by dawgs
I don't know if ray is all that good of a coach given the lack of progress many guys on our roster have made (especially ware, fred, Daniels), and if he can't manage a roster, why should I think he can manage a game plan and draw up innovative plays to get guys in the best positions to succeed?Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
"Worst coach". Last time I checked, that included all aspects of being a coach.
Then wtf are you talking about? We can only go off what we see with our eyes. Observation. This isn't imagination land. Rick Ray can't even have a winning season, let alone a spot in the big dance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
Shit, that's like me saying "I'd be a world-class painter, if it wasn't for my horrible brush-strokes".
How can a "good floor coach" not manage to put points on the board or beat the press defense. This whole year it seemed that teams would toy with us, but once we hit a couple shots, they would press and we were completely lost. A good floor coach can create ways to beat that and Ray proved he cannot. So I disagree that he is a good floor coach. Anything other than he is one of the worst overall coaches in the country will not make sense to me.
This has nothing to do with hate for RR. I like RR as a person. I liked him as a coach when we got him. But we 17'ing suck, and to point otherwise is just trolling. And just so you know, I wanted RS gone...actually gone sooner than he was (Its sad I feel I am required to state this). Criticizing a coach because he has led our program to 3 straight losing seasons doesn't mean we "hate" him; who's pushing an agenda now?Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
I don't know about everyone else, but I find it beyond Simple Jack that you would type (with a straight face) that RR is a better coach than someone who won 20 games, is recruiting at a high level, doesn't have off the court/locker-room issues (that we know of), and made it to the NCAA. Ray won't sniff that next year. So what if he is underachieving? Most coaches in the SEC are considering the level of talent they have; that's the nature of college ball now - just because you have a 5* next to your name coming out of high school doesn't mean you're a polished basketball player.
This too.Quote:
Originally Posted by RossDawg82
Floor coach? Where the hell are you seeing this, Coach? Why, because we play "good" defense for stretches of games? (that has nothing to do with the poor shooting and general basketball skills of the SEC...of course not).
We are a horrible passing team. One of the worst teams in the conference in A/TO margin. One of the worst teams in the country in assists per game. We are a horrible rebounding team. We don't box-out at all; basically we have horrible technique in most facets of the game. We'll play "good" defense for 23 seconds of the shot clock, force a bad shot, but give up an offensive putback on the rebound. Guys like Ware and Fred haven't been developed, if anything they've regressed. We still can't attack a zone. We still can't shoot 3's, and you can't say that's a lack of talent either - look at those mormons the other night: what is their average recruiting class the past 3 or 4 years?
These basketball discussions never cease to amaze me. Johnny Jones got in the Tourney- so therefore he is better at coaching the game than Ray says the Ray hatersBut if this was a football discussion before last August- every single damn one of you would defend Mullen and talk about what a better coach he is than Les Miles- he just doesn't have the talent Miles has. It's ****ing hilarious. Not a swinging dick on this site would say Miles was a better game coach than Mullen. But since he was going to better bowl games he must be better right????
I've never once said that, but good job deflecting and changing the subject**Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
I'll take a coach that underachieves and makes the big dance over one that overachieves and beats that coach one day in January. Jones isn't that great, but recruiting makes his team relevant. I've learned my lesson about basketball, I would rather be upset about our team in February and March, than not even caring anymore in December.
So what you're telling everyone here, "just keep playing defense, the offense will take care of itself" Is the mindset and game plan of a "Great floor coach".Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
At least your post can be defended by the timestamp. The liquor stores did open at 10 am.
Ha!Quote:
Originally Posted by RougeDawg
I will say it. Les Miles is a better coach than Dan Mullen because of on the field results. Until Dan Mullen wins a National Title and has top 10 recruiting classes year in and year out this will be true. Having LSU on your helmet or jersey doesn't automatically equal winning (ask Gerry Dinardo).Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
This is the same reason that Jones is one of the better coaches in the SEC. BECAUSE HE RECROOTS SO WELL. You can make the exact same argument about Rick Ray and John Calapari. Calapari isnt some innovative X's and O's genius. He simply has better players than everyone else. You would probably argue that Rick Ray could coach circles around Calapari if he didn't have 7 future NBA guys, but in reality (where only one of us in this comversation resides) it doesn't 17'ing matter.
Well said, Bruce. I added a little tidbit though.Quote:
Originally Posted by THE Bruce Dickinson
That's not even a close to apt comparison. Mullen just had us ranked #1 in the country, has taken us bowling 5 straight years (probably the equivalent of 3 ncaa tourneys and 2 NIT tourneys), just went to a "BCS" bowl (equivalent of a 2 seed), beat lsu in their house at night, finished ahead of lsu in the west this year, and went to a better bowl than lsu this year. So there's at least plenty of evidence to suggest mullen is at minimum a good coach and you can argue the difference between him and miles over the long run really is the ability for LSU to sign a top 10 class every season without leaving their state. Ray hasn't shown any production on the court to support your statements. Literally has shown nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
That was one of LSUs worst and sloppiest games of the year. LSU Shot 37% to our 44% but shot 17 more shots. We shot 36% from 3 to their 17%. We made 23 of 35 free throws to their 11 of 21.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
For the season LSU shot 45.6% from the field and 34% from 3 point, so they clearly had an off game against us. In comparison, on the season we shot 43% from the field and 30.6% from 3.
Conclusion. We shot slightly better than our averages, against LSU, in this game while they shot well below their season average against us, yet only lost by 6. Nothing about any of this tells anyone that Ray is better than Jones at any aspect of basketball, coaching or recruiting. The win was a matter of circumstance and the circumstance was LSU being way off during that particular game.
The following game against TN we were once again unconsciously shooting the lights out. We shot 56% from the field to their 42%. We shot 73% from 3 to their 25%.
It required extremes away from one teams season average in both instances for us to come away with victory. That's why the remainder of the season we lost the majority of the games, because our offensive averages were some of the worst in the nation.
Lsu lost to us, mizzou, and auburn twiceQuote:
Originally Posted by RougeDawg
Our poor shooting in literally almost every other game is not ray's fault. However when we shoot lights out for 2 games it's a sign that ray is coaching his ass off.Quote:
Originally Posted by RougeDawg
Likewise, when other teams have off nights, it's a sign that the coach is a bum (even if they make the tourney!). But when they shoot lights out, it's because they have superior players, and the coach still sucks worse than our <.400 coach (even if he takes them to the tourney!).
Right C34?
Ok. Doesn't refute how far from the norm LSU's stats were in the game vs us and how far from the norm ours were on edging out Tennessee.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
If I had to bet I'd say there were similar circumstances in those games LSU played as well.
I didn't realize we had so many people here that would rather have Miles than Mullen
I don't. If you flipped coaches, Mullen would have lsu right there with bama. On miles' watch, lsu has fallen to 2nd tier in the secQuote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
Who cares about 1 game. Why we are basing the success of our coach to a game against one team is beyond me. Justify in any way you wish, but at the end of the day, we are a horrible product from top to bottom. We have lost all support for the program, and the only reason that he is still coaching is because of Pride from our AD. There isn't anyone who cares at all about MSU basketball that can look in the mirror and say that they have any confidence that RR will turn this around or be even the slightest bit successful. He will not, and it is the players and the fans that have to suffer. So enjoy another year of 1500 fans during conference games and a 13 win season, because I honestly think RR has peaked at MSU. This is like a bad marriage, sometimes you just know that its not going to work.
I'd rather have mullen, but because I can see that mullen has closed the gap in the on field results enough to make the intellectual leap from mullen taking our guys where he did this past season to what he could do if he had the advantages of lsu football. ray hasn't done anything to justify taking that intellectual leap.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
This is apples and oranges because Miles, Mullen and Jones ALL WIN. Even before last August Mullen had taken us to 4 straight bowl games. When you talk Miles, Mullen, Jones and Ray there is one in there not like the others because that one has never come close to a winning season.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
This is just hilarious. So many "Les Miles sux as a coach but wins with talent" posts over time here- but now suddenly he is awesome because you guys backed yourself into a corner. I love it.
9 out of 10 people in the city I live in would tell you Mullen is a better coach than Miles- and half would want him as the next LSU coach
That Miles/Mullen deflection is such obvious bait that I am literally shocked by how many people want to debate it with youQuote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
Rick Ray's jock strap aint that big.
one of the best x and os Coach i've ever seen is Bob Boyd--but with no talent that means your ass will lose. I saw JJ 's team execute an out of bound play. That is way more than Ricky Ray. Please tell us one good set RR runs on offense. Give an example of his excellent floor coaching ability. He is absolutely to worst Coach from top to bottom in the SEC. Coach you have found another way to up your hits, but Damn Man is it worth it? I didn't think your basketball post could get any more stupid.
And 9.9 out of 10 people in the city everyone lives in would tell you Jones is a better coach than Ray - and 99.9% would want to keep Jones as the LSU coach.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
Refute it.
ya'll are some dumb mf'ersQuote:
Originally Posted by tcdog70
1st of all- not one time in this thread have I said Ray is some great coach- I have said he coaches a game better than Johnny Jones- it ain't even close.
Ray has easily the worst 8-9 player rotation in the SEC- yet was a break or two from winning 8-9 SEC games. We absolutely in no way underachieved with the roster we put in the floor. So that obviously says the guy is at worst a decent coach. Is he awesome? **** no he isn't. But he does a better job of coaching the players he has than JJ does.
As far as a set he ran? The last game we played- Auburn. We ran a double post ball screen for IJ at the top of the key- IJ came of the screen to the left- Sword faked high and back cut- IJ hit him for an uncontested lay-up. There is your set you asked for.
wrong- one of the Surgeons I work with laughs at Jones. His words today "an empty chair can coach better than Jones. I saw last night coming a mile away"Quote:
Originally Posted by MadDawg
Oh, so 1 person's comment out of a 1 person sample-size? Glad we got that cleared up.***Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
And where do you work that you can talk to fish?***
HahaQuote:
Originally Posted by BeardoMSU
That still doesn't mean he would rather have Ray. It hasn't been established yet that Ray > empty chair.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
You're on a roll.Quote:
Originally Posted by MadDawg
ETA: I didn't realize RR was guest of honor at the RNC...
http://www.motherjones.com/files/cli...r-rnc-2012.jpg
There was actually quite a bit of these kinds of offensive improvements down the last stretch of the year, even as people on here continued to complain that Ray doesn't know how to run an offense. Likely because they either didn't want to acknowledge it or they were so tuned out at that point. It didn't really amount to much because no matter how good your offensive gameplan is, it doesn't mean anything if your guys can't put the ball in the hole, something our less-than-stellar talent level made difficult. While I'm not all that happy with Ray right now and wouldn't be devastated if a change was made now, I still think he can turn it around with the potential talent upgrades coming in over the next two years, because his offense isn't as bad as it looked this year or many of you claim it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
I don't think I saw a team miss more point blank shots than us this year. If our guys could just make an easy shot/layup, our assists and point totals would look much better.Quote:
Originally Posted by thf24
I certainly believe talent is the main issue. If ray wasn't showing life on the recruiting trail, I'd be ready to pull the trigger too. I really like tookie, weatherspoon, hicks, and Simonds. Ray needs to pull a rabbit out of his hat and land Malik, mulder, or juco pf
I guess you are using the LSU win from this season as Ray's "Marquee Win" at MSU.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
If spinning things that way makes you better have at it, however Johnny Jones has won a lot of games as a HC and now has coached 2 teams into the NCAA tournament. Ray is basing his job and career off just getting into the NIT next year. Jones has 2 McDonalds AAs coming in next year we have one all State guy coming in and a kid from Carver who averaged 6ppg this season.
If and when Newman signs with LSU, we will just have to hope that LSU has to suffer through another tourney season with a terrible coach.
I wish my suffering came with a tourney appearance as a prize. Every day I go to my mailbox looking for my Rick Ray prize, and every day it's empty.
Here is where your argument goes down the drain. You act like it is some piece of bad luck that we have the worst players in the league. Rick Ray is responsible for this. Getting talented players to come to State is part of his job as the coach.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34