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You are the King out of selective stats. Based on how many shots. Do you think stats are the only way to tell if a player has gotten better? Any dumb ass could tell Stewart got better every year. Do you keep stats on how many times you shit a week?Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
Not nearly as embarrassing as having Wednesday nights debacle broadcast on TV. We are a laughing stock.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
BTW, coach. You go to the game?
No way you are that dumb.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDogFather
Time to start clearing this place of the trolls again. This guy thinks losing a home game by 20 and trailing by 1 at the half is more embarrassing than being a lead story on ESPN for teammates getting in a fight in the stands in wife beaters and called the most dysfunctional team in college basketball by multiple national publications and radio personalities...
Obviously not from his freshman to sophomore year. But the WIDELY used term "sophomore slump" is clearly lost on you. "It's skewing that he went downhill in every stat...I could SEE his improvement!!!1!11" You show the same person that every player on Rick Ray's team has improved, "It has to be SOS -- this team has not improved at all!!1!1"Quote:
Originally Posted by tcdog70
I guess you are simply smarter than statistics...
Engie beat me to replying- but yeah, what he said
We can have a debate if you would like. But going down the troll road just because someone disagrees with you is irresponsible.Quote:
Originally Posted by engie
To yours and coaches dismay and disappointment there are reasonable people that exist who think the Stansbury firing was a bad decision and that the Ray hiring just made it worse.
What you have found is that your hyperbole and misguided exaggeration on the Stanbury criticism has resulted in the same on the Stansbury support and Ray criticism. So ironically the coaching discussion you loathe was actually borne by you.
It's not a theory, hyperbole or misguided exaggeration. It is reality. We hired a coach without head coaching experience BECAUSE of how bad the shape our program had sunk to.
It's frustrating for us on this side of the argument because we think it should be obvious for reasonable people to see.
Because of the deep hole Ray inherited, he should be given more than 1-1/2 years to dig out of it. MSU is not a school that can plug in 5 McDonalds All Americans each year.
You should at least acknowledge Ray took a big career chance by accepting this challenge of a depleted program.
Da ****?Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
Losing control of the program..... check.
Making a mockery of the school.... what the hell?
I acknowledge your point and agree totally about Rays decision.
We actually agree on more than you realize.
On "our side" what we don't understand is the incessant criticism heaped upon Stansbury on a daily basis - and you must admit it has reached an unreasonably exaggerated point - while any criticism of Ray is met with excuses and 100% pass.
I can't remember once it being mentioned that Ray should lose his job.
There is really nothing to debateQuote:
Originally Posted by TheDogFather
We were embarrassed on national TV with players fighting in the stands
The Sporting News labeled us the "most dysfunctional program in America"
Gottlieb and Katz were laughing at us on ESPN about Stands
Jimmy Dykes on SEC telecasts routinely pointing out Sidney being lazy and walking up the floor during games
Players calling out the coaches on twitter
Players ignoring the coaches during time-outs
The program was ranked 2 of the last 3 seasons and neither team made the NCAA Tourney
If you dont think the coach deserves to be fired over that- we dont have anything left to discuss.
Duplicate post
A great example of my point. Your opinion is right so there is nothing to debate. I'm surprised I wasn't called a troll again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
I don't think you're trolling- it's just that removing Stands was a no-brainer. The only question left on that was did we wait a year too long?Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDogFather
The problems started once we began the search to replace him. Strick and Co had no idea the job was viewed as toxic as it was. None of us did really. Hell, you Stands-Lovers still dont believe it. It was a big reality check for Strick- but it also gave him reassurance that he did the right thing. And that's why we have a guy named Rick Ray coaching us now.
We'll see the next 2 years how it works out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by engie
"This is turning into one of the biggest coaching busts we've seen in a while. It's worse than Croom. Nobody had any idea what to expect from Croom. But people expected Cohen to have a clue what he's doing. So far, not so much."- Maddawg
But he was always on the Cohen bandwagon**Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
I think the "when is it Cohen's team" thread needs some transcription here. Yet, people say my constant comparison is ridiculous. Well, go read the damn thread -- it's basically identical to this one.
Irresponsible?Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDogFather
No - what's irresponsible is calling a home loss to a team that is tied for 3rd in the SEC standings "MORE embarrassing for the university than fighting in the stands as the lead story on Sportscenter for 3 days and being watched by 100 million people fighting in wife beaters in the stands during a prestigious basketball tournament."
You are either a total moron that lacks any semblance of common sense and any form of perception-lending memory...or a troll. Feel free to make your choice which you prefer it to be. That's how damn stupid the post I quoted was -- and the agenda isn't far behind it.
My personal opinion is that Rick Ray needs to be given 4 years to right the ship. Any coach in any sport should be able to do that within that time frame. Yes, that may seem like that is too much time for a basketball coach. BUT, this program was basically the ashes of the dumpster fire that many claimed we were. The few decent pieces that were left, namely Hood, left when Stans was let go. his first "recruiting class" was basically a conglomeration of what he could find in the short time span. This class is shaping up to be a bit better. He really doesnt even have any of HIS recruits on the floor yet.
Ya'll, we all knew we would go through this when Stans "retired". Let's just stick with the guy. From what I have seen and also heard, he is a great coach that just doesnt have the weapons yet nor the depth to be successful.
The "Man" could have walked his ass across the parking lot to the Sanderson on any given afternoon, and hand picked a better team than what was on his roster this and last year. This is what pisses me off. When I was at state there were some pretty damn good ballers in the Sanderson daily. I'm sure Most of them would love to have a walkon spot on the team. Why not have a tryout for players like that? They're better than what we put on the floor Wed night, for sure. Didn't we have an open tryout like this for kicker last year?Quote:
Originally Posted by Schultzy
Where did you dig this up from? Got a link to this? I don't remember making that statement, but I might have. I've admitted to being wrong about Cohen. I wonder, though, if Ray turns out to be a bust, will you admit you were wrong? Hahahaha. Nevermind, of course you won't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
Oh gosh. Oh. Gosh. We have officially entered the twilight zone.Quote:
Originally Posted by RougeDawg
Tyson Cunningham is about as good as any non-basketball player on campus. You want to throw some other Tyson Cunningham's out there?
I mean, I'm sorry, but holy crap. 'I know some dudes who could ball, we should put them on the team!' Giant LOL.
Is there a link to this thread? Is this where that quote came from? I hate to be skeptical, but you guys have spread lies before.Quote:
Originally Posted by engie
Ray has had tryouts for walk-ons both years- that's how we got CunninghamQuote:
Originally Posted by RougeDawg
But the point of showing your quote and taking issue with everything you say about Ray now is that you just have to give him more time. People said the same about Cohen, but people like you refused to give him that time before coming to a conclusion on his coaching ability. Same with Ray...here you are making the same mistake.Quote:
Originally Posted by MadDawg
That doesn't mean Ray will be a home run. He may not work and we have to make a change. But you just can't make that judgement right now. If Ray turns out to be a bust, no one who said we have to give him more time will have been wrong; once he's had enough time, we'll acknowledge he had to go.
But if Ray turns out to be great, you will look dumb, just as you do now with Cohen.
thats funny....Engie provided links to 5 old threads earlier in the thread. Made for some really good readingQuote:
Originally Posted by MadDawg
http://sixpackspeak.yuku.com/reply/4...m#reply-467588
Kickers are one thing.....but to go and find legit PLAYERS is an entirely different thing, as well. Guess we could find a better point guard at the Sanderson? dang, wish someone had told Croom we could have found someone to replace Henig from the intramural football league!!! or maybe find a better RT than Siddoway in the Union!Quote:
Originally Posted by RougeDawg
You don't just walk around a college campus and find D-I ball players that are not already on a team. Sure, i am sure there might be one at MSU, but not 5-7 of them.
i don't think ray took a big career chance. he wasn't anywhere near getting another major conference HC gig, he's being compensated well above his assistant coach salary, and if he can't turn us around and gets fired, he'll still be able to go back to being an assistant coach.Quote:
Originally Posted by Schultzy
as for the 5 mcdonald's AA comment, we still wouldn't be landing many McD's AA, but our admin is hamstringing ray's recruiting by limiting his AAU contacts. it's just impossible to to recruit above avg major conference talent without getting in bed with AAU. it's dirty, but it's necessary.
Here another nugget from the old archives engie lives in:
"What do you think will be the biggest difference between Polk and Cohen?
'May not mean much to you, but that difference between Polk and Cohen means a lot to me and I bet others as well.'
Oh it means something. I just think it's more about the "calm, that's baseball Polk" versus the "fiery, emotional Cohen". That's the difference in my opinion. And for the record, I'm ready for that change. We've done it Polk's way for too long. It's time for a new direction."
But that doesn't fit the narrative, so I'm sure it got ignored.
are you sure ya'll aren't twins-both are great selective stat kings--but I guess the rest of the story is lost on you two Mesage board gurusQuote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
You are a ****ing clown, who obviously hasn't stepped foot in the Sanderson. I've noticed a pattern of you commenting on multiple legitimate posts lately. Do you just like to talk shit to stir the pot? And if you'd refrained from responding you would have seen Coach respond with Ray already holding similar tryouts. I don't keep up with much basketball behind the scenes, but I do know there are better players in the Sanderson than a handful of players currently on our roster.Quote:
Originally Posted by smootness
Are they not getting much participation in these tryouts? When I was in school in the Early/Mid 2000's there were some solid players that play in the Sanderson, and some good shooters. I would suspect nothing has changed in that category. Are these guys just not interested in playing or trying out? Their school is obviously already paid for so something has to be preventing them from wanting to play.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
Are you saying that our current roster is entirely composed of players that are actually D-I quality? Hasn't that been the argument by most on here? Not very talented? Open Roster spots? Warm bodies who know how to inbound a pass and run up and down the court would be better than what I saw Wednesday night out there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Westdawg
We should get a few things straight. Producing an either/or scenario In a debate is completely elementary and not worth the time to rebut.
And, yes, calling someone a troll for simply disagreeing with your opinion is irresponsible and insulting to the intelligence of the poster.
You seem to be arguing a point that is undeniable. I'm unsure why other than you have nothing left to offer on the subject. Fighting in the stands is embarrassing and there is no need in raising your blood pressure to try and prove it
As is usual, your emotions have clouded any reasonable response. And since you seem to care enough to read the posts and have a logical discussion on the points, I will reiterate.
Rick Ray is not a good coach. Can he become one? Sure. But until results are shown we can't tell. The embarrassment in the performance against Georgia has nothing to do with Georgia and if you are unable to see the problems then maybe you should dust off the ole basketball 101 book.
As for agendas? You simply making that statement is hypocritical at the very best. The only legitimate argument you have provided for Rays abilities is to discuss Stansbury. Now there is the real agenda.
So you should continue your pattern of exaggeration and name calling since you obviously have no need or want for actual thoughtful discussion.
And just as an aside, did you go to the game Wednesday?
I'm just wondering. Why do you insist on insulting Stansbury with names like "Stands". Do you think it brings value to your arguments? Do you think somehow Stansbury sees this and is insulted? I'd like to hear your reasoning on it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
No- just dont make a dumbass statement and then get mad when proven wrong. Everybody questioned what was going on with Stewart his 2nd season- he was clearly worse than his freshman season. He had a Soph slump- for whatever reason- but came on and had two more good seasons after.Quote:
Originally Posted by tcdog70
You were wrong, it happens. Stop being a whiner about it
EXACTLY.Quote:
Originally Posted by smootness
It's not about being "right" or "wrong". It's about the ridiculousness and redundancy of forming COMPLETE opinions on INCOMPLETE data sets...
Of course, you and I will be pinned as "Ray lovers that were wrong" if he doesn't work out -- even though we've taken no such actual stance.
Barry Stewart is a better player than anybody Rick Ray has recruited for us and has on our team. And he was an under the radar guy that Stans signed.
Barry could do something NONE and i say it again NONE of our current players could do and that is consistently shoot and make 3pointers.
Yall all can hammer on Stans all you want but fact remains that he always recruited and played guys who could hit 3 pointers from Tang, Antonio Jackson, Markell Patterson, Ontario, Timmy B, Frazier, Power, Jamont, Barry, Ben Hans, Dee, Steele , etc.. Hell Riley Benock is a better shooter than anybody currently have on our team.
Is it that hard for Ray to go recruit in an area he used to coach (Indiana or the midwest) and find a kid who can knock down jumpers???
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadDawg
And again, you TOTALLY whiff on the overriding point -- in attempt to get caught up in the small details -- from an ENTIRELY different point in time of the two compared tenures.
The fact of the matter is -- you took the exact same approach to Cohen that you are taking to Ray. You didn't learn a damn thing from this the last time.
Also would like to add that Rick Ray's offense which some of you may love is about as boring of an offense as there is in the SEC. We rarely score in our half court motion offense mainly due to lack of shooters. Most of our points come in transition off of steals. When teams don't turn it over (Georgia in the 2nd half) we struggle.
Blah blah blah -- you said something fuggin stupid that called your agenda to front and center -- and making up a bunch of other straw man bullshit(which is also mostly fuggin stupid) to deflect doesn't change a damn bit of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDogFather
See- this is the core of the problem. You guys are sooooo loyal, insane, touchy, or whatever the descriptive word is that comedy is lost about anything Stansbury. Stains is insulting, as are some others. Stands is just a play on his nicknameQuote:
Originally Posted by TheDogFather
Stands is a funny nickname, Nothing more, nothing less. Many of us have talked for years about how there was too much "standing around" in our "motion" offense. And there was. Changing Stans to Stands couldnt be any more of an appropriate name for him. It's not insulting- its just funny. And fitting.
Stands was a solid coach at State for most of his tenure.
Good side- he won an SEC title, a couple of SEC Tourneys, kept a consistent team for the most part, and got us in the Dance 6 times in 14 seasons.
Bad side- He almost never won a big game whether it was vs top 10 teams or in the NCAA Tourney, his SOS was almost always in the bottom 1/3 of the SEC, we only made 2 NCAA's his last 7 seasons and there were lots of discipline problems and drama at the end.
We have moved on- it's time for the Stands-Lovers to do the same. But you wont, and we'll keep having this same argument like we did about Cohen until he shut everybody the **** up like many of us said he would. Hopefully Ray does the same