Perusing the Penn State board after Steven's camp....

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Originally Posted by 1bigdawg

Yes.

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I still think KT is the guy. Just think about this.
Last year, if KT played the entire season, we still would have won 8 games with the bowl game and KT would have 14 games under his belt. With Staley and that other guy bailing on us, it forced us to not use KT's redshirt year. KT is a very young true Junior on the field.

Now I hope both KT, Mayden, Shrader, and Stevens comes in and play awesome. I hope they all are basically either Brett Favre or Cam Newton out there. If Mayden isn't going to get a shot at QB, I want him somewhere else on the field. That conversation needs to take place. We need athletes on the field that can catch the ball.

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Originally Posted by Lord McBuckethead

I still think KT is the guy. Just think about this.
Last year, if KT played the entire season, we still would have won 8 games with the bowl game and KT would have 14 games under his belt. With Staley and that other guy bailing on us, it forced us to not use KT's redshirt year. KT is a very young true Junior on the field.

Now I hope both KT, Mayden, Shrader, and Stevens comes in and play awesome. I hope they all are basically either Brett Favre or Cam Newton out there. If Mayden isn't going to get a shot at QB, I want him somewhere else on the field. That conversation needs to take place. We need athletes on the field that can catch the ball.

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Also you can think about the fact that if KT redshirts this year then he would be on the same track as Dak was on (starting as a redshirt sophomore only due to injury). Now I imagine Joe would put KT in at times if he plays this year either at QB or catching the ball but if he redshirts then he still has 2 possible years to start. Most QBs just start for 2 years in college. It is getting more common for QBs to come in as freshmen or sophomores but most of those guys are either high level guys or starting out of necessity.

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Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe

This made the whole thing worth it.

So it looks like most QBs at least improved the team they went to at the QB position. Isn't that the entire point? It is only a detriment if Stevens is a worse QB and it runs off KT. Even then if Stevens gives us a better chance this year at a better record then it is worth it. It seems like Mayden and Shrader might be better suited for Joe's offense. Joe has stated that the best passer is the guy who will start.

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As a former Falcons fan, I couldn't pass that up

Best ED thread in a while.

Stevens is the guy. Get behind him.

Pretty sure the story behind him leaving was how Franklin and staff mismanaged and misled him during an injury. Franklin does not exactly come off as a standup citizen.

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Originally Posted by msstate7

I'm not worried about going to croom level. I think joe is a much better coach. I'm concerned we downgraded from Mullen.

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Early indications are that we did downgrade. Mullen is good coach and most of us took him for granted, including me.

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Originally Posted by msstate7

I was interested in how the graduate transfer QBs of last year worked out, so I found the list of the top 20

https://collegefootballnews.com/2018...are-they-going

I don't have time to check every one of them out right now, but minshew is the only one I recognized as having a good year. Now I don't know all of them, so there could've been more. You guys help me out with figuring success rate

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How many of those guys transferred to a school that ran an offense that he had already been in?

I'm sure several of the grad transfers on that list were starting over in a relatively new offense. If there is one bright side it's the fact that Stevens has been in the offense before and should be a bit ahead of the game.

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Originally Posted by BB30

How many of those guys transferred to a school that ran an offense that he had already been in?

I'm sure several of the grad transfers on that list were starting over in a relatively new offense. If there is one bright side it's the fact that Stevens has been in the offense before and should be a bit ahead of the game.

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It's certainly a unique situation, and it gives tommy a much better chance of succeeding than the normal grad transfer.

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Originally Posted by GreenheadDawg

Early indications are that we did downgrade. Mullen is good coach and most of us took him for granted, including me.

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Yeah, well, Mullen took us for granted too.

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Originally Posted by BB30

How many of those guys transferred to a school that ran an offense that he had already been in?

I'm sure several of the grad transfers on that list were starting over in a relatively new offense. If there is one bright side it's the fact that Stevens has been in the offense before and should be a bit ahead of the game.

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I'd say it is not unusual:
Minshew was at ECU - Scottie Montgomery was from the Cutcliffe tree, was OC at Duke. So not an air raid guy.
Stankavage was at Vandy - and Bloomgren at Rice was at Stanford with Derek Mason under David Shaw - so probably some crossover
Morgan was at BGU under Mike Jinks and went to FIU under Butch Davis. Jinks was RB coach at Texas Tech under Kingsbury and his OC came from under Leech. Don't know much about Butch's offenses - but he is an old Frank Broyles guy.
White was at ASU under Graham - an Air Raid type and moved to Norvell at Memphis. Norvell coached under Graham at Tulsa. So probably some lots of cross over.
Carta-Samuels was under Peterson at UW, and Bobo at CSU. Don't think much cross over there.
Weigers and Speight went from pro-style to pro-style - not a big learning curve.

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Originally Posted by msstate7

No idea how good Stevens is, but I think it's pretty clear Franklin thinks Clifford is better. I don't think he would've let Stevens walk if he felt Stevens were the better of the 2. With that said, both Stevens and Clifford could be studs. I just don't see why a penn st fan would have sour grapes if they trust Franklin.

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Once Franklin did what he did he had no choice. He didn?t want Stevens to go.

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Originally Posted by MarketingBully

Once Franklin did what he did he had no choice. He didn?t want Stevens to go.

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I think Franklin wanted his cake and eat it too. In other words he felt the other QB was a little better but he wanted Stevens to stay to have that reliable back up that win games.

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Originally Posted by TrapGame

I think Franklin wanted his cake and eat it too. In other words he felt the other QB was a little better but he wanted Stevens to stay to have that reliable back up that win games.

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Yeah, I think you have it right

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Originally Posted by gravedigger

I'm sure Tommy is realistic about his shot as an nfl qb and that it's kinda low, but this is his only shot to earn it. Along the way, my bet is he can slide into the wr position to help Mayden and Shraeder improve. This is like getting another qb coach on the field as much as it is someone who will march the team down the field.

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He's 6-5 240, can run, has a cannon for an arm, he's about to start for an SEC team and he's getting big praise from important people down at the Manning camp. I guarantee he doesn't think his chances at the NFL as a QB are low. College football players at this level are supremely confident, particularly when they know they have a good opportunity in front of them.

As for the second part of this, are you saying he's going to move to WR at some point this year and Mayden or Shrader will be the QB? Zero percent chance that happens. Maybe I'm confused by what you're saying. Stevens will be the QB the entire season, barring injury. I think there's just a tiny chance he's not the QB (1%) and if he's not it will be because KT took the largest leap of development from one year to the next that we've seen.

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Originally Posted by TrapGame

Yeah, well, Mullen took us for granted too.

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^^^this.

Whether Moorhead succeeds at MSU or not, I'm ok as long as he's not job-hunting by mid November every year like Mullen was.

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Originally Posted by TrapGame

I think Franklin wanted his cake and eat it too. In other words he felt the other QB was a little better but he wanted Stevens to stay to have that reliable back up that win games.

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He may have just been dealing with two potential transfer risks and made a choice based on the next two years. Name Stevens as the presumptive starter and risk Clifford transferring out. Not name Stevens as the presumptive starter after the way he handled his injury and risk Stevens transferring out. If you're Franklin, if you lose Clifford, you have to have a new QB ready to start in 2020. He may not have anybody that he feels comfortable will be ready at that point. Lose Stevens, you have Clifford for 2019 and 2020 and have until 2021 to develop the next starter (barring injury), which is as much time as any coach can ask/hope for.

No clue if Clifford would have been a transfer risk since he'd already redshirted and was going to be a Junior, but maybe he was close to graduating.

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Originally Posted by TrapGame

I think Franklin wanted his cake and eat it too. In other words he felt the other QB was a little better but he wanted Stevens to stay to have that reliable back up that win games.

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Clifford isn’t better then Stevens and he changes what their offense can do as he is not a run threat at all. As that Executive Director stated, he couldn’t believe Franklin let Stevens go. Maybe Franklin wanted to dictate that he wanted to move away from having a mobile QB. Who knows but telling Stevens to have the surgery when he did so he missed both bowl prep and spring practice was just foolish on Franklin and his staff’s part. Time will always tell but hey Franklin’s dumb ass decisions have benefited at least us and Oregon (got 5 star WR Johnson).

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Originally Posted by MarketingBully

Clifford isn’t better then Stevens and he changes what their offense can do as he is not a run threat at all. As that Executive Director stated, he couldn’t believe Franklin let Stevens go. Maybe Franklin wanted to dictate that he wanted to move away from having a mobile QB. Who knows but telling Stevens to have the surgery when he did so he missed both bowl prep and spring practice was just foolish on Franklin and his staff’s part. Time will always tell but hey Franklin’s dumb ass decisions have benefited at least us and Oregon (got 5 star WR Johnson).

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If there's one thing I know, it's you are much better qualified to know who is better between Clifford and Stevens than franklin. You may be right, but you have nothing to base this on. In limited playing time last year, Clifford had a 399.7 passer rating. Sure that's going to go waaaay down, but I think franklin knows more about both than you.

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Originally Posted by RiverCityDawg

He's 6-5 240, can run, has a cannon for an arm, he's about to start for an SEC team and he's getting big praise from important people down at the Manning camp. I guarantee he doesn't think his chances at the NFL as a QB are low. College football players at this level are supremely confident, particularly when they know they have a good opportunity in front of them.

As for the second part of this, are you saying he's going to move to WR at some point this year and Mayden or Shrader will be the QB? Zero percent chance that happens. Maybe I'm confused by what you're saying. Stevens will be the QB the entire season, barring injury. I think there's just a tiny chance he's not the QB (1%) and if he's not it will be because KT took the largest leap of development from one year to the next that we've seen.

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Well, I mean that he knows he's a multi position player and he didnt win the starting job at Penn State. He knows this is his chance at qb, but he's got the ability to play multiple positions in the NFL. I probably shouldnt have said 'low'.

No, I'm not saying he will actually move to those positions. I'm saying he will be able to help with those positions learn their jobs and in some mop up time or trick play, could line up that way if we needed him to. Defenses would have to respect that.

My overall point is that he ads a role as a coach for multiple offensive positions due to his use at Penn State.

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Originally Posted by msstate7

If there's one thing I know, it's you are much better qualified to know who is better between Clifford and Stevens than franklin. You may be right, but you have nothing to base this on. In limited playing time last year, Clifford had a 399.7 passer rating. Sure that's going to go waaaay down, but I think franklin knows more about both than you.

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This will be proven this fall so we shall see. Clifford is a pro style QB with very limited running ability and they are running an RPO offense. Not the best situation.