Mechanical approach and philosophical approach are two different things. Our philosophical approach is what I believe needs adjusting more than anything. Our mechanical approach could be tweeked but in reality that's an individual player deal.
Mechanical approach and philosophical approach are two different things. Our philosophical approach is what I believe needs adjusting more than anything. Our mechanical approach could be tweeked but in reality that's an individual player deal.
Humphreys' pre-load position is pretty darn close to Trout's, and if you google image search him, there's a picture of him post-load and it's basically identical to this picture of the Missouri State hitter.
This whole discussion is hilarious, though. Every time.
This is Mike Trout at StanceQuote:
Originally Posted by RougeDawg
https://ubersense.files.wordpress.co...abm8opy9nk.png
At load
https://ubersense.files.wordpress.co...5-33-59-pm.png
At what point do you see him pinch his elbows together. Anything done BEFORE pre-load does NOT effect the absolutes that begin at PRE-LOAD. You are so think headed. I beg of you to show a VIDEO of a complete swing showing what you are advocating and breaking it down to prove what you are saying. Maybe your terminology just sucks so bad that it has everybody jumping on you but I highly doubt that. Anything done in stance doesn't matter but to break it down further. It's truly pre-set position. That is the true stance portion of the swing that goes into the pre-load and all of the swing sequence.
Look at Trouts hands
https://ubersense.files.wordpress.co...7-59-53-pm.png
One of the best hitters in the world is opposite of what you describe should be done. At some point you should either recognize your ignorance or show video proof. I have requested that many times and you can't do it because you don't know what you are talking about.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lX_dm39fkfw
At no point do you see Trout pinch his elbows together in that swing. From Stance to launch to extension he does NOT do this.
There is a reason that hitters to pinch there elbows BEFORE stance or set position. To also torq the wrists and it has absolutely nothing to do with what you think it does. That is a major reason we know you have not a clue about the swing. The elbow pinch has nothing to do with the swing and you see hitters do it then get in the proper set position with the power V position and the elbows seperate back away to proper position AWAY from each other. The amount differs from hitter to hitter and again stance is and should be individualized for each hitter. The pinch is to help hitters feel the "scap load" that occurs during and through load and launch phase of the swing. It however is NOT a position during the swing. It is just a cue that helps SOME hitters. Some it makes them too tight and the lose bat speed. That is all the pinch is. To help feel the scap load. Some like to lock in the scap early and use it for that. I prefer for the hitter to use it during load and launch transition and it is more pronounce even for those hitters. But again this is absolutely not a requirement for any hitter to do and as the above example shows, even some of the best in the world do not do it.
Totally agree with this.Quote:
Originally Posted by shoeless joe
The thing I question about Humphreys is whether he will ever hit for average or not. He has always had power, but he never hit for a real high average relative to what you would expect for a D-I college prospect. The .419 on his bio his senior year might as well have been given to MSU by Mark Twain since it was "greatly exaggerated". I followed Humphreys his entire senior year and he was more like .360.
http://www.hailstate.com/ViewArticle...B_OEM_ID=16800
Agree again. The approach we have had makes sense based on the types of hitters we have recruited for the most part. That should change over the next couple of years.Quote:
Originally Posted by shoeless joe
Cohen was the top hitting coach in the SEC at Florida as well. It's very simple- if you have singles hitters with speed- you take advantage of that because that is their God given skill set. What you are advocating would lead to more fly ball outs and actually hurt us in the long run. That and the fact that we play in the biggest pitchers park in the SEC. Tate Matheny despite his size is not a singles hitter.Quote:
Originally Posted by RougeDawg
Basically- go watch the scene in Major League of Willie Mays Hayes taking batting practice and popping everything straight up. It's the same principle.
What can't be good for crooting is someone who doesn't know better, reading shit you say and taking it as fact. Read another baseball book and shut the **** up. How bout that!?Quote:
Originally Posted by Smitty
I have no idea about Hump bc I don't know him or his family, but I know you posted the same thing a while back about Luke Reynolds. I know for a fact he and Cohen spent a few hours watching film one on one the Sunday evening before the Arkansas series and he simplified some stuff in his approach and swing. He took off after that. I'm not saying it's all bc of that, but I think it played a part.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bucky Dog
That movie was on today. "You may run like mays, but you hit like sh*t"Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
Last time he said that we got a commitment from one of the top hitting prospects in Louisiana and then one of the more projectable hitters in Mississippi within a week of each other.Quote:
Originally Posted by Homedawg
The fact that Cohen would allow our hitters talk to other outside people doesn't really bother me. It goes completely against the meddling over-coaching mantra though.Quote:
Originally Posted by confucius say
One of my favorites!Quote:
Originally Posted by confucius say
Why do people keep engaging this on an honest, intellectual level?
Humphreys is a year behind where he would/should be. As is Collins. Their injuries were daggers for us in different ways. This summer is hopefully when this all comes together. It's the most important summer of Cohen's tenure bar none between the development that needs to happen with 7-10 talented guys currently on the team in summer ball and the elite signing class itself and MLB.
This is a good point about the injuries. Humphreys missed all of a summer baseball last year and had some nagging injuries this year. This will actually be his first summer baseball action since arriving at MSU. Collins- we all know about his hand. A healthy Michael Smith would have made a huge difference for us as well- he could be our Jacob Robson next year. The guy that missed most of the year with injuries that might come back next year and hit well over .300 and steal a ton of bases for us. We've caught some glimpses of what he can do defensively. Gridley, Cody Brown, and Luke Reynolds all had very good years for us as well- and they could all take big steps for us. A lot of people forget that those three are still underclassmen.Quote:
Originally Posted by engie
But the biggest thing we need to improve and that we MUST have happen is for the five pitchers in the Cape to step up- or at least three of them. We can talk about hitting all we want- but the fact of the matter is we are only going to be as good as our pitching is. I feel pretty confident about Hudson, Sexton, Tatum, and Houston stepping up. I'm still a little skeptical about Daniel Brown- mostly because I question his toughness. And even though he is not in the Cape, I think Levi Mintz will be better next year. More than anything, I think he hit a wall the last half of the SEC season. He reminds me a lot of Caleb Reed- except he's ahead of where Caleb was at this time of his career.
I think you would be shocked to see how similar Hump's numbers are to Renfroe's numbers when he was in his second season.
There is a significant influx of talent relative to the pitching staff that is coming in as well. I feel pretty good about getting all of these guys on campus. It will be interesting to see if some of them end up sticking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
If you have Dakota Hudson, Austin Sexton, Vance Tatum, and Zac Houston as potential starters on the weekends with Daniel Brown and Levi Mintz definitely coming out of the pen, I think you will see Kale Breaux, Ethan Small, Gray Fenter, and Jared Padgett get some time as relievers during the weekend.
Then, if he comes back healthy, you have Jesse McCord from this past year's class. If healthy, he could make a push as a weekend guy as well. Coming back from a labral injury in a pitcher is tough though.
Nobody has true zero load. Load, which is definitely different than pre-load and are seperate in the sequence, has to happen to transition to launch. You have to have a negative move pre-load to load then a positive move to initiate action, this is load to launch. Simply put, an object at rests tends to stay at rest, this is zero load and never happens in a swing. Some players are very quite in their squence and this is what is confusing you I am sure but make no mistake, they have a load and have a negative and positive move during these transitions. This is not even getting into all of the external rotation, internal rotation, SCR, torq, etc parts of the kinesiology of the swing. But in basic terms, objects in motion stay in motion. You have to be moving (pre-load, load, launch) before you swing.Quote:
Originally Posted by RougeDawg
The amount of space between your hands and shoulders during stance is irrelevant. During load it does shift closer to what you are describing but Ted Williams and Barry Bonds and many others discredits this as an absolute.
No. Abduction, torq and load force among several other factors in the launch phase is what causes the slot of the back elbow into the side and the front elbow to move up. Look at a hitter from overhead and we discover that the distance between the elbows are exactly the same but core torq, abduction, etc causes the slot to happen and is the beginning phase of the swing and bat lag.
Your whole last paragraph is condescending ignorance. You don't talk further about the swing because you don't know more.
Eta. To answer your question about boxers
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8f37MKMqRaQ
I see a lot of elbows moving AWAY from the core at load to initiate the launch of the punch. Similar to an actual swing wouldn't you say. So no a boxer's most powerful swing is not with his elbows tucked in close to his body. Like a jab. A hook is much more powerful and it is away from the body and the body rotates with the punch for maximum power.
Wait, so you take one thing technique and teaching mechanism that I point out that will help players develop power and comprehend that I'm saying every baseball player on earth does this to achieve power? I never even said they should swing with pinches elbows. Are you really that dense or just trying to stir the pot? I was saying that using this approach aids in keeping the hands and elbows in a power position. My original post was that players hands in relation to shoulder and their front elbow placement has the most to do with power but you take one small portion, run with it and try to make someone look like an idiot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Really Clark?
And once again prove your ignorance. The picture you chose to diagram and draw a line shows his hands where? Are you that stupid? I've been saying that the hands have to be in a specific region, in relation to back shoulder, to maximize power. Your picture is perfect example. I've also pointed out what mechanics assure a hitter getting and keeping his hands at said point in their stance. Why must you take everything literally. The elbow pinch just assists player in keeping the elbows closer together in a power position and the hands in correct position to push through the zone. Did you watch Buddy Reed today? No because you are a moron and take someone literally, opposes to observing the requested example of the hitter you've been asking for. I said his approach is perfect for those who need help getting the hands and elbows in proper position. He pinches his elbows before he loaded, and then they relaxed out into a stance similar to trout. The pinching simply reminded the mind to keep them close to the body for maximum power. And no one would not expect Trout to pinch his since his skills are already much better than anyone who plays the game. I believe the thread was to the point of 18-22 year old players, of which stances/approaches are much different than our hitters approaches, and have more powerful swings.
For the last time pinching the elbows and or wrists assures that the hitters have their hands/elbows in proper position as to not roll over and maximize power. It also assured the front elbow is in a power position. The back hand/elbow is more of a guide to the point of contact and direction you want to hit the ball. If we had nine players with 1/2 mike trouts ability, we wouldn't need instructions on how to improve power. But we don't, so we need someone to move our hitters hands and alter stances. Once a hitters swing is aletered they need not pinch the elbows to keep their hands/elbows in position.
Please proceed. I fully expect you to show me some hitter who starts his hands around his asshole that bats .287 in your next attempt to discredit me. How about read entire posts before picking apart one sentence or paragraph and attempt to discredit. In the mean time invest in a DVR and watch Reed.
You have been bringing this or hand placement at stance, up for weeks (nevermind that I have called you out on this before and you didn't address it then) and it has seemed that you exactly have been touting this as the KEY to a power swing. If that is not the case you could have said that a month ago but you didn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by RougeDawg
Show one video that shows what you are saying. You have not done it once. It may actually clear up our disagreement. But for your education the top hand (back hand and elbow) is NOT just the guide for a high level swing. Nobody swings this way. The backside is the major power generator of this engine. The bottom hand (front side) is more of the guide mechanism but they do work together.
I have already explained what the pinching is for or should be used for and there are MLB hitters who do this religiously. It is a power load cue but for the scap load. Keeping elbows close in relationship to core or each other? You have said both in this post. If you actually try swing with that feeling of the elbows closer together and closer to your core you are bleeding off a tremendous amount of power. The concept is wrong. At launch, if you are swinging correctly, the large muscles of the back, rear hip, and rear knee in conjunction with the linear stoppage and front side resistance and partial front hip external rotation begins the back elbow slot. That slotting comes from the body abduction and the elbows are very close to if not exactly the same distance between each other from stance through contact. During this phase. That is a major issue I have as you keep promoting this idea that they close the gap toward each other during the swing to generate power. That is completely wrong. Now they don't get further apart either but they stay the same throughout the swing at contact. Then at extension they will get closer together. Now back to launch, you should feel the "scrunch" of the lower back from the torq and the scap load into launch. The pinch helps give the hitter a pre-swing feeling of that load that will take place. Now a hitter may think he does it for various reasons and maybe even a cue for something totally unrelated. I know a lot of coaches who have moved away from the double pinch of both elbows and like to have guys do a backside pinch with a front side up swing to simulate what is done during the swing more accurately. For me, what ever works for a hitter is fine.
And you DO NOT push the bat throw the zone. You rotate through the zone with a CHP.
I Don't have to use Trout and have used countless other players including hitters from Vandy and LSU who you touted previously and used them to illustrate you are incorrect on several facets of the swing. You choose to not bring any of that up now and try to discredit what I was saying because in this post I only used Trout? Really? How many more do you need? I have used countless pictures and videos. Not one have you broke down for us.
In relation to pinching the wrist, that is for wrist load and torq or some use it rotate grip position a little weaker if they want to hit with more bat lag or oppo. Too much causes tension in wrong position of the grip or grip movement which CAUSES premature rolling of the wrists and bat. The opposite of what you advocate you do it for. So I disagree with you there as well.
I'm ignorant? The one thing I actually agreed with you on and stated as such, hand position at the back shoulder at pre-launch, you write a paragraph trying to state I am ignorant and my picture proved you correct. I'm dense? I AGREED WITH YOU
Now if you want to discuss tucked pre swings to remind the hitter that the hands have to be inside ball. Ok. I see that. But the pinch is not about keeping the elbows close to the core to generate power. And when the back elbow slots into the backside the front moves upward and away from the core the same distance. The distance between the elbows at stance to contact is the same. They do get closer at extension but that is after contact. The front elbow is not as big of a power generator as the rear elbow. Everything, and this is sports in general, power is generated from the back side to the front. The front side is not the major power generator in the swing.
No I didn't watch Buddy Miller today. I have been working with hitters all day.
Not gonna quote to save space...but your second and next to last paragraphs are dead on and, IMO, seperate high level from low level swing thinking, Clark.