Wow. Going back 24 years to Roy Williams being hired. That's something. Cell phones and the internet didn't exist back then. Rain Man was the #1 movie in 1988. Your post reminded me of Rain Man.Quote:
Originally Posted by smootness
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Wow. Going back 24 years to Roy Williams being hired. That's something. Cell phones and the internet didn't exist back then. Rain Man was the #1 movie in 1988. Your post reminded me of Rain Man.Quote:
Originally Posted by smootness
You missed my analogy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Political Hack
Former player who played under the long time, most successful coach at the same school is what I was going for...
My point was not so much Mississippi players as in familiar with the SEC and the south recruiting in general. I don't mind Ray and excited to see what he does in his first accountability year next year, but I did not agree with the hire on the basis of his resume and experience. He could very well do a fine job here, time will tell.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
With this coach Missouri hired, it is a surprise. However, I can see where they made their judgments from. Former assistant at Missouri and Baylor, coached in Missouri and know what it takes to win in the state.
He went 9-17 his last year there and had a record of 73-59 in 5 years. You're kidding yourself if you think it would be anything other than, '?? Duke could have definitely done better than this'.Quote:
Originally Posted by esplanade91
And your point is? Is it that ADs routinely had small britches back then? Or is it that hiring an assistant could be a successful route then but not now? Because neither one would make any sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg61
I didn't have to go back that far. I guarantee you I could find plenty of guys who had a lot of success in their first head gig after being assistant since. Those just happen to be two of the best coaches in the country and were obvious examples to disprove Hack's point.
NC winner Kevin Ollie and Shaka Smart come to mindQuote:
Originally Posted by smootness
I don't care about other AD's hires. I was making the point that we left our big boy britches sitting next to the diaper drawer when we made this hire. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't see this program going anywhere anytime soon under current leadership.Quote:
Originally Posted by smootness
Kevin Ollie was groomed to be Calhoun's replacement. He is more of a comparison to Stansbury then Ray. Smart took over VCU who is known to hire assistants aka Anthony Grant before Smart.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
Ollie was under Calhoun for all of two years. Regardless of what VCU is known for, they hired an assistant. Mississippi State is known for hiring assistants alsoQuote:
Originally Posted by MarketingBully01
The facts remain that he was a disciple of arguably the best (top 3) basketball coaches of all time and left a SERVICE ACADEMY with a winning record. Duke obviously did their homework and concluded that there was a reason other than his ability that led them to a bad season his final year there, ala Crean this past season.Quote:
Originally Posted by smootness
Again, there's nothing on Ray's resume that says "hire this guy." He was never an assistant for a hall of fame coach, he never personally affected a super star talent, and he was a bench coach for a program that actively tried to hire Rick Stansbury a couple of seasons ago. Let that sink in. The quicker we realize Ray was probably brought in to be the fall guy for this next administration the more commrodary our fanbase is soon to have.
I don't need to tell you why an 11 year NBA vet is more qualified than Ray.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
The hire at Mizzou had also been an assistant at Mizzou on 2 separate occasions with something like 12 years experience on the sidelines at Mizzou. He then went to be at head coach in state where he won a D2 natl title.Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketingBully01
I would compare this hire more to a Gus Malzahn type hire than a Rick Ray type hire
Quote:
Originally Posted by esplanade91
You need to do more research on who Rick Ray actually is and what he's actually done -- instead of spewing the Stansbury-faction spun bullshit back to everyone as gospel...
It's one thing to hire your own relatively unknown assistant (a la stans), it's another to hire someone else's. Also vcu is the type of program that should be taking chances on relatively unknown assistants. We are a damn sec program and should be either hiring big time assistants, successful mid major HCs, or successful D2 coaches. We let programs like vcu weed out the unknown assistants that can't cut it, then we go hire them. Or let a guy be coach K's or Roy Williams' right hand man for a few years. Or win a couple of D2 titles/tourney runs. That's how the circle should work. We shouldn't take a risk on an unknown that isn't already in the program and knows the job.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
NCAA's since 2000- VCU 7 State 6Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgs
Sweet 16's since 2000- VCU 1 State 0
Final Fours- VCU- 1 State 0
Enrollment- VCU- 31K State- less than 20K
Endowment- VCU- 1.3 Billion State- less than 1.3 billion
This aint football- They have as much or more basketball resources than we do- and a much better area to sell school-wise.
There have been some terrible Rick Ray arguments on this board. This may be the worst.
secQuote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
colonial
/end argument (and kinda nullifies the whole tourney argument since their route through winning their conference was much easier than ours most of the seasons since 2000, even in a weak sec AND 3 of those tourney bids for vcu are arguably their 3 best seasons of all time with the type of coach that usually is going to be looking to step up to a program in a conference like the sec)
regardless, i wasn't saying we had to go the smart route, he's obviously holding out for 1 or 2 select positions or a NBA job, BUT he's not the only mid-major HC with some success. AND there's D2 guys with plenty of success that we could gone after too. if you think the only options after missing on shake smart-types was to go for clemson/purdue unknown assistants, then you have your damn head in the sand. plenty of options between the hottest names in the country and a complete "who the ****?" hire.
I have done my research. Nothing about his resume said he was worth $1m/yr or ready to skipper a program that's won 10 major conference titles. I have zero problems hiring an assistant coach, that's not the part I object to. There are dozens of coaching trees I'd rather poach from than Matt Painter's, and I don't mean offense to Painter. It's just a fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by engie
I hope to God I'm wronger than wrong about Ray. I just have a hard problem standing up for a guy because he preaches effort. 99.9% of coaches preach effort. Liking a coach because he preaches effort following Stansbury's career is like the folks who say Stricklin is good ONLY because we used to have LT and he was worse. A lot of stuff is better when compared to shit.
ETA: I realize we're stuck with him for better or worse right now and I still support the team. I witnessed every home game in person that first year (moved away from Starkville following that). It's just a punch to the gut that the team I support through thick and thin hired a guy I can't really get behind hiring in the first place. Maybe I'm off the mark but I can't imagine anyone here wants to see Ray lose.
Of course every coach preaches effort. Not all of them can actually produce it on a consistent basis. Ray has shown at least that much so far.Quote:
Originally Posted by esplanade91
Ray hasnt been given an honest chance to this point. He will this year. We'll see what he is made of. I think we'll be ok this Winter.