Tom Herman Fired at FAU

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Originally Posted by KB21

Not true. Lebby's results are bad, but it's not because he is doing a bad job. It's because Arnett left him nothing.

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Lebby got here and had access to his office on November 27th. The portal officially opened on Dec. 4. So Lebby had a week to evaluate what he had, ID what we needed out of the portal, and start setting up visits. Oh and btw, he was also having to keep and add to a HS signing class as well as hire a staff. Other schools do that throughout the year. Not in 7 days. So when the portal opens, they already have been talking to guys, setting up visits, knowing what they need, etc.

We are actually organized this time around. The results will be better.

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Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve

Lebby got here and had access to his office on November 27th. The portal officially opened on Dec. 4. So Lebby had a week to evaluate what he had, ID what we needed out of the portal, and start setting up visits. Oh and btw, he was also having to keep and add to a HS signing class as well as hire a staff. Other schools do that throughout the year. Not in 7 days. So when the portal opens, they already have been talking to guys, setting up visits, knowing what they need, etc.

We are actually organized this time around. The results will be better.

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In other words Arnett was about to bring in nothing. I would imagine at most other places there has been some leg work done.

And as bad as we are- no Lebby means no Craver, Van Buren, and etc.

At least has some players that can give us some hope for the future.

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Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve

At the end of the day the HC is responsible for the program and everything involved with it. When our recruiting on defense started to downturn, the HC was Mike Leach. It continued to trend down under Zach Arnett. They are both responsible for the crap we find ourselves in. Leach could just scheme better and knew how to win with inferior talent. Arnett did not.

However, the main person we need to be blaming that somehow gets no blame is Dave Emerick. He was in charge of recruiting until Leach's last year. He screwed us. He and his recruiting dept ID'd players that couldn't play at this level.

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With the portal there is very little reason to blame people that were here 2-3 years ago. I'm not saying there weren't issues. I'm saying that there has been ample time to fix any issues.

There are teams that can completely rebuild in one offseason. MSU failed to do so.

Saying Arnett and co did a better job than Lebby this year without the context isn't right. Arnett terribly mismanaged his role as HC and even worse he lied to his players and lost the team. Lebby has to come in after the fact and wade through all the mess that was made and aside from his terrible decision for DC and our defense I'm hopeful for our future once we get that side of the ball fixed. I had zero optimism at all under Arnett.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

In other words Arnett was about to bring in nothing. I would imagine at most other places there has been some leg work done.

And as bad as we are- no Lebby means no Craver, Van Buren, and etc.

At least has some players that can give us some hope for the future.

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I don't know about "nothing". I mean Craver committed under the old staff so you do have to give them credit there. Although that might've been more Bumphis. No Lebby does mean no MVB and no Coleman.

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Originally Posted by Matt3467

Saying Arnett and co did a better job than Lebby this year without the context isn't right. Arnett terribly mismanaged his role as HC and even worse he lied to his players and lost the team. Lebby has to come in after the fact and wade through all the mess that was made and aside from his terrible decision for DC and our defense I'm hopeful for our future once we get that side of the ball fixed. I had zero optimism at all under Arnett.

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Arnett is the same coach that stood in front of his team after Kentucky, a game we lost 24-3, and said, "two more wins and my job is safe". Not two more wins and we go to a bowl or two more wins and we can start to build some momentum. Nope. "Two more wins and MY JOB is safe".

This is like arguing about who?s s*** doesn?t stink. Everyone carries some blame. The school hired Cohen. Cohen hired Leach. Leach didn?t recruit and hired guys who couldn?t evaluate talent. Keenum hired Arnett. Arnett took bad advice and was in over his head. Lebby hired a DC that makes Peter Sirmon look good.

Put all of those together and you get a 2-10 season with a quite an uphill climb to reverse trajectory.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

With the portal there is very little reason to blame people that were here 2-3 years ago. I'm not saying there weren't issues. I'm saying that there has been ample time to fix any issues.

There are teams that can completely rebuild in one offseason. MSU failed to do so.

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For one, and because of who we are, it took us longer to understand that the NIL/portal era was a permanent move. A real thing. Secondly, we also didn't understand what kind of jack it was going take to take to win these bidding wars. It was more than we expected. Now we have a better idea, or at least we should, but the price of business is going up every year. Our program was in a state of shock, so to speak. In other words, they didn't write ****ry songs about this.

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Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve

Arnett is the same coach that stood in front of his team after Kentucky, a game we lost 24-3, and said, "two more wins and my job is safe". Not two more wins and we go to a bowl or two more wins and we can start to build some momentum. Nope. "Two more wins and MY JOB is safe".

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Yea that is when I was fully done with Arnett. I actually liked the guy and wanted him to succeed, but after losing to a very average UK team at home by 3 TDs I knew he was in over his head. In a way he is right because had he beat UK and then beat USM I’m not 100 percent convinced we would have fired him at 6-6 and a bowl. That probably would’ve made this year even more of a train wreck if that is even possible

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Originally Posted by PGHBulldogBG

In a way he is right because had he beat UK and then beat USM I’m not 100 percent convinced we would have fired him at 6-6 and a bowl.

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No way we would have fired him in that scenario.

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Originally Posted by Bothrops

For one, and because of who we are, it took us longer to understand that the NIL/portal era was a permanent move. A real thing. Secondly, we also didn't understand what kind of jack it was going take to take to win these bidding wars. It was more than we expected. Now we have a better idea, or at least we should, but the price of business is going up every year. Our program was in a state of shock, so to speak. In other words, they didn't write ****ry songs about this.

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We still as a school/fanbase havent accepted the reality of where college football is. It takes $10MM to get enough players to stay out of the bottom of the SEC in football. That scares the hell out of our people. Thats why blaming coaches like we did 10 years ago useless. It's a new age and its money centered first and other aspects after

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Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve

Lebby got here and had access to his office on November 27th. The portal officially opened on Dec. 4. So Lebby had a week to evaluate what he had, ID what we needed out of the portal, and start setting up visits. Oh and btw, he was also having to keep and add to a HS signing class as well as hire a staff. Other schools do that throughout the year. Not in 7 days. So when the portal opens, they already have been talking to guys, setting up visits, knowing what they need, etc.

We are actually organized this time around. The results will be better.

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That?s impossible

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Originally Posted by KB21

Not true. Lebby's results are bad, but it's not because he is doing a bad job. It's because Arnett left him nothing.

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The guy is likely to finish 2-10, including getting completely manhandled by Toledo. It's a bad job.

He could win a game or two over the next 2 weekends and improve in my eyes, and maybe he'll turn it around in the future, but there's really nothing good or neutral to say about this season. We were kinda competitive in a couple games I guess, but in none of our losses (other than maybe Texas A&M) did I ever think we had a good chance of winning.

exactly- we got manhandled by Toledo. We bought players and got our ass handed to us. Let's not act like a good job has even remotely been done this season.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

We still as a school/fanbase havent accepted the reality of where college football is. It takes $10MM to get enough players to stay out of the bottom of the SEC in football. That scares the hell out of our people. Thats why blaming coaches like we did 10 years ago useless. It's a new age and its money centered first and other aspects after

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I think a big reason why our fans don't like to pay is because then the onus is on the fans a lot more meaning it's more their fault. It's just easier to blame Dan or whoever the coach is. The thing is our fans have never really had a problem paying for the Bulldog Club. I'm not saying that donations there couldn't improve too but it's just that you never saw the "I ain't never paying that" attitude that some people have. The new set-up with the Bulldog Excellence Foundation that they just started may help some with that. I would be like "yeah you're paying the Bulldog Club" and a lot of our fans will have no idea that some of that money is going to NIL.

Also, let's be honest. Ole Miss cares a lot more about football than they do about basketball, baseball, women's soccer, etc. and what that means is to compete in state for football players we have higher bidding wars for players. It's also partially why we're a lot better than they are in basketball, baseball and etc. too. I mean, if Josh Hubbard was a football player odds are he would be at Ole Miss right now.

Now, we can compete with them. We've won football battles over the years too- Chris Jones, Simmons, Tulu, and many others. Some I'm not saying that we can't compete but to do so at the level we want to we're probably going to have to go above and beyond. Which means we're going to have to overspend some to get players which MSU absolutely does not like to do- especially for football. How many times have we heard "We're not going to get so and so because his price is to ridiculous." It may be worth it sometimes to pay a ridiculous price for a player. We're never going to hit 100% on players anyway and I would rather spend and overpay on someone that is average than get someone at market value that sucks.

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Originally Posted by Bothrops

For one, and because of who we are, it took us longer to understand that the NIL/portal era was a permanent move. A real thing. Secondly, we also didn't understand what kind of jack it was going take to take to win these bidding wars. It was more than we expected. Now we have a better idea, or at least we should, but the price of business is going up every year. Our program was in a state of shock, so to speak. In other words, they didn't write ****ry songs about this.

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That's why I think Cohen is the main culprit here. It's like he thought that since selling autographed baseballs didn't work he was just going to let everything wither and die on the vine. Charlie Winfield literally saved MSU athletics.

To me it's the AD's job to say "Hey, this is the reality. This is what we need to do and what it is going to take." And really how many times have MSU fans ever had a problem with that? Heck, that's a big reason why baseball is what it is. Ron Polk would be like "Hey we need this" and the fans would donate/build whatever we needed to do. When have we ever had an AD say "Hey we really need an IPF for football"- I don't recall it. I wouldn't be shocked if we got the thing built in a year or two if Selmon pushed the issue.

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Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve

Arnett is the same coach that stood in front of his team after Kentucky, a game we lost 24-3, and said, "two more wins and my job is safe". Not two more wins and we go to a bowl or two more wins and we can start to build some momentum. Nope. "Two more wins and MY JOB is safe".

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Was that when Bookie confronted him?

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

Was that when Bookie confronted him?

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Yep. That's the night.

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Originally Posted by Quaoarsking

The guy is likely to finish 2-10, including getting completely manhandled by Toledo. It's a bad job.

He could win a game or two over the next 2 weekends and improve in my eyes, and maybe he'll turn it around in the future, but there's really nothing good or neutral to say about this season. We were kinda competitive in a couple games I guess, but in none of our losses (other than maybe Texas A&M) did I ever think we had a good chance of winning.

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Just because the results are 2-10 does not mean Jeff Lebby has done a bad coaching job. These results are a direct reflection of Zach Arnett, his defensive recruiting, his destruction of the offense in one season, and his lack of ability to develop players. Jeff Lebby inherited a complete mess and has to build this up from the ground. Did you honestly think a coach could have come in here with what Lebby inherited and produce a bowl team?

I agree to some extent but most of the deals had been made when he got here ..... am I wrong?