Quote from Geno Aurlemma Connecticut Women's basketball Head Coach
"How do you coach in an environment where the players feel like they owe you nothing and you owe them everything."
Couldn't have said it better.
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Quote from Geno Aurlemma Connecticut Women's basketball Head Coach
"How do you coach in an environment where the players feel like they owe you nothing and you owe them everything."
Couldn't have said it better.
Yeah, that's spot on.
Cry me a river. That dude makes $3m a year coaching women's basketball. He was able to obtain that because the roles were reversed for so long.
Name me one occupation where you can make that much and not have to deal with some sort of changing environment... I'll wait...
Yeah it sucks when you make 3 million a year, at least, off the sweat and effort off kids that for most of your life made nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverick91
What a cock sucker.
Yea and I'll just be blunt. The guy makes 3 million a year and his job provides little to no value/skill to society. Might hurt to hear, but I can't feel sorry for any of these coachesQuote:
Originally Posted by Gutter Cobreh
I think you guys lost the point in getting sucked into him specifically. Also yeah, it's a lot of money to coach hoops but that's the going rate so...
College athletics is supposed to be still "developmental" these are still 18-22 year olds, there is supposed to still be this hierarchy of coach to player relationship. NIL is destroying that developmental structure of playing the game, learning at a college level, becoming a good human that when the game is over you can enter into society and add to the growth.
NIL is destroying that and it isn't good. We can sit here and say it is semipro which I agree that's what college athletics has turned into. I still don't think it is good for the overall development of these kids.
If you are defending NIL in its current state I cant help you. I dont really think you want to be helped. If you are in charge of anyone at work put yourself in that situation and tell me how you would feel. Not everyone is a victim believe it or not
He's building future leaders and developing the lives of young women*****Quote:
Originally Posted by chef dixon
Pretty any business you can name. UPS and FedEx CEOs make a lot more than the pilot, more than the tug driver, more than the box tosser.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gutter Cobreh
Coaching is a profession.
Being a Professor is a profession.
Being an Administrator is a profession.
Being a College Student Athlete is not a profession.
There have been multiple opportunities for a professional minor league to be created for Basketball and Football. Baseball has one.
Wanna get paid to play sports, go into baseball until the pro leagues create a minor league. The owners have been making millions off of colleges training and developing their new hires for decades. The fans once again get screwed because they have to pay the coaches salaries, the players salaries, AND pay ridiculous ticket prices, hotel prices, concession prices, to watch them play. Our only recourse is to boycott and not attend. So then TV steps in and says no need for fans in the stands. We got you covered and have sponsors who will charge the fans more for their products so the fans can believe they are watching games for free.
I actually love Capitalism but I don't think I should pay a salary to an amateur.
Name me any sport in the world where people come to watch an athletic event and the athletes that you come to watch don't get paid yet the people that organize the event or simply the coach that coaches the athletes get all the money.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maroonthirteen
I guess that happens in dog fighting. So that is one.
Why is that the going rate? UCONN women's basketball is $600k in the hole after operating expenses. I doubt there are many women's programs that actually turn a profit. So the coach doesn't like NIL, makes $3m, and doesn't turn a profit?Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverick91
Also, the highest paid WNBA player makes $264k a season. That is the top 1% and they make a fraction of the coach. Again, he isn't developing anything other than padding his pockets and then crying about how he doesn't have control any longer.
NIL isn't bad. The transfer portal is what is bad. Go read the Recruiting Confidential thread by woof from The Atlantic. Even if you take it at face value, the market is only as good as what someone is willing to pay.Quote:
Originally Posted by BuckyIsAB****
I said "changing environment". I didn't say anything about compensation for the leader vs an employee.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maroonthirteen
Great post! What you put can be debated.Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainObvious
The issue is who pays. You assume you have to pay. Why? Will it roll down to the consumer, absolutely! The problem is the environment is changing, but the structure hasn't changed. If I were leading the Athletic Dept. - we'd do the bare minimum for the sports that will never allow for profit to be made. If that means we pay grossly under for a coach or coaches, then so be it. Everyone wants to be the best at every sport, when in reality - if schools paired down their admin cost and passed that down so things were cheaper for their supporters - it's doable. How much coaching & support personnel does a sport need? Currently we have 6 for women's softball, 9 for women's basketball, and 8 for track and field. Any of those sports running neutral to budget? Are they all crying that NIL is unfair?
Football and Men's Basketball are outliers and need to be treated separately. They themselves fund the massive athletic departments and yet we get mad at some 17 yr old who simply wants a piece when they're contributing to the massive athletic department and funding these other opportunities on the non-profitable sports.
I don't mind someone saying that the current model isn't feasible moving forward. That is a completely accurate statement.Quote:
Originally Posted by BuckyIsAB****
A coach making 3 million complaining about a player getting a fraction of that to play is just bonkers.
If he hates it so much, he can go coach High School. If he truly cares about the player and wants to coach kids that will listen and take coaching seriously, he can go coach High School. I'm sure he can get a job very easily. Of course, he will have to make about 2% of what he is making now, but then you can't put a price on coaching with integrity, right?
Its such bullshit.
If the coaches want to complain about how NIL or money is changing the landscape of college sports, they have to realize that they created this problem with their million dollar salaries and side shoe deals. The fact that the athlete wanted a little part of the money the school and coach was making off their ability is somehow a problem is just awful. Rebecca Lobo and Tauresi made Geno a millionaire. They made nothing while at UCONN. He made millions. He doesn't feel the least bit guilty? **** him.
I have always found it interesting that people discount concerns and complaints from people that make a lot of money. I've really never understood that.
Does anyone know what the amount of money is someone has to make before we ignore or dismiss what they say?
I don't like NIL in the way that it is being used but it's not because it's not fair to coaches that can instantly leave behind players when they (coaches) have an opportunity to make more money. Coaches should stfu with the whining. Fans are the ones being fleeced.
For sure. And he's a "blue blood" coach - imagine how it is otherwise. I suppose it's a good thing the coaches are well-paid.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverick91
When someone in a supervisor position is being critical of people in a lesser position in the same arena, then yes the fact that Geno makes millions and most of his players have been paid nothing, yes it is an important point.Quote:
Originally Posted by MetEdDawg
If Geno was asked about abortion, immigration, or school prayer, I wouldn't care how much money he made and wouldn't really care about his opinion.
When he decides to cry foul about how his current sport sucks because NIL and money has corrupted the soul of his virgin sport of women's basketball, then yes how much money he makes is absolutely and completely relevant. He sure didn't mind cashing his checks off the backs of his players, now he has a problem with those same players getting a fraction of the money that he received. So yeah, the money matters.
Yet for years it was:Quote:
Originally Posted by RocketDawg
"How do you play in an environment where the coaches feel like they owe you nothing and you owe them everything."
And that was ok.
The coaches aren't being held hostage, they don't have to stay in the sport. In the immortal words of Dan Hawkins "Go coach intramurals brother". Nobody is putting a gun to Geno's head. If he doesn't like it, go coach intramurals, coach high school, or go coach at the YMCA, they are always looking for volunteers.
This is all about power. The players have some and coaches don't like it. Well either adjust to the new reality or go coach intramurals brother.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HancockCountyDog
Lets apply your logic to Elite Dawgs and lets say you and a handful of other posters are the reason, due to your inside MSU sports knowledge, the board draws a lot of subscribers and lets say Elite Dawgs management is making a ton of money off of these subscribers due to payments from advertisers and references from other publications. Are you now wanting to be paid? Elite Dawgs pays the costs of hardware infrastructure, bulletin board software, electricity, computer room rental, storage costs, poster's behavior monitoring and system management costs. It is their system, free to use by others, but now you want to be paid because you and a handful of other posters feel important and want your cut of the revenue? That is ludicrous as you are only an amateur poster spouting your opinion and what ever source of inside knowledge you may have. You are not employed by Elite Dawgs. You are not a professional as posting is not your full time job nor how you make your living.
You are also getting a benefit from being a member of this board as other posters provide information you may not have but yet you want to be paid!
Same for college and athletics, the students are amateurs (or they were) where sports are just an extracurricular activity sponsored by the university. Student athletes benefit from getting a free education and a butt load of other perks, but now due to money from TV rights, everybody wants a cut!
This is insane and is destroying college athletics!
ETA:
Nobody is forcing student athletics to go to college just like nobody is forcing you to post on this board; it is purely your choice! If student athletes are good enough why not go directly into the pros?
Such a terrible analogy, because ED will survive and whether I post or not doesn't matter to ED. I have no leverage. I have no power to do anything than stop posting here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Extendedcab
That is not how college athletics work. If geno lets the best players or in your analogy posters walk, well then his program suffers and therefore he stops making as much money. So he can tell his school that he isn't going to recruit players that want NIL deals and he is only going after players that want to play for a scholarship while he cashes his 3 million dollar check.
Lets see how long he is employed with that strategy. Same length of time Lebby would be employed if he took that position. He would be fired in minutes.
Imagine being so dense that you fall they these "kids" get to go to college for free for their efforts. Ask kids coming out of college that had no scholarship what it's like.Quote:
Originally Posted by chef dixon
What about kids who received grants or were on an academic scholarship? Why single out just athletes?Quote:
Originally Posted by RezDog7
What about students who use their college experience to get a paid internship? Should they give that money back to the school?
The crux of the issue: Are the players adults, or kids?
Kids don't get to make all decisions. Kids don't have full rights. Kids have to be parented by an authority figure with real discipline power. In that sense, NIL is AWFUL as it leads to the "parents" not being able to discipline without the "kid" leaving, and it leads to the "kids" having all this money to make dumb decisions. If you see a 14 year old with $400k spending cash, you'd think they're spoiled brats. If you saw a 14 year old threaten to change parents in an argument you'd say that kid will never learn their lesson. a 14 year old should be grateful for the life lessons (coaching) and allowance (college tuition) that they're already getting and wait their turn to make their own decisions.
However, if we think of college athletes as adults, NIL is just par for the course. "How can UCONN's coach do his job if his players have the right to leave???" I don't know, how does any boss manage his employees when Indeed has hundreds of jobs they can apply to on lunch break? You speak to them as adults and find non asshole ways to motivate them to do their job. Millions of managers all across the country are able to lead and train subordinates. And if a problem employee leaves because they don't want to change their behavior, you hire a replacement and hope they have a better attitude and are glad to be rid of the cancer. In that sense (Portal = job hunting and NIL= salary) coaches aren't asked to do anything that a manager hiring a 23 year old engineering grad isn't.
Are 18-23 year olds adults, or children? This is the moral difference about NIL. We all agree NIL is awful for the sport itself, but those who are morally outraged about it do so because they don't want "kids" getting uppidy
You can't coach anyone in anything with that type attitude - sports, career, whatever. The entitlement in our society is a big, big problem. What either makes is irrelevant. He is spot on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverick91
That is part of the issue. They are not adults. Adults work jobs (for a lifetime to make a living). That is not the college athlete. They have no responsibility in life - that is not an adult. College is to finish growing up and get an education so that later they can earn a living for a lifetime. Not to whine about not getting money for going to school for free. We are creating generations of entitled and spoiled people.Quote:
Originally Posted by the_real_MSU_is_us
Good post.Quote:
Originally Posted by the_real_MSU_is_us
I worked in Cali for a while. Became good friends with this bar owner. One night he and I left bar to run to his house and pick something up. He's telling me some of his business dealing and whatnot and on one of them I ask "Is that even legal?" He said, "Absolutely it is", so then I ask him if he feels alright doing that. He says "Hey man, I didn't create the system, I'm just learning how to survive in it".
The kids have learned how to "survive" in the system.
Something to Ponder ... All college coaches at State Universities are State employees. And HCs and OCs make millions .. for being a State employee. Other State employees don't make that kinda money. And there are strict rules for any outside compensation. It really has to be a whole other job legally. They don't do endorsements and it probably is illegal for them to do so (not sure about that just guessing).
And relative to Alumni Associations and whatnot paying the coaches and that being "legal" ... that's also like the insider trading Congress does and how all these PACs are formed (per laws passed by Congress) to really funnel money to the Govt or State reps. Same thing. They all, regardless of Party, come out a ton richer than when they went in.
It's ALL a racket LOL. The kids are just now figuring it out. IMO can't blame them or call them greedy. As the standard saying we were all indoctrinated with going back to late last century ... "Friendship is friendship BUT ... BUSINESS is BUSINESS".
And then there's the fact the govt can draft them and send them off to a foreign country to kill or be killed by other people. All before they can drink a beer.
It's a crazy world out there LOL.
High school sportsQuote:
Originally Posted by HancockCountyDog
Yep, and if a HS coach wanted to complain like Geno, I have no problem with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
I never said kids had to give money back. And I don't care that athletes are getting paid. But help me understand why I have to pay them. I don't make a ****ing thing off them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gutter Cobreh
You don’t.Quote:
Originally Posted by RezDog7
Now, if you want your team to win, you probably will need to pay. If you think that’s stupid, that is a reasonable opinion, just know that is the new world.
So do you want to spend more of your disposable income on MSU in order for MSU teams to have a better chance to win games? That is the question each of us must answer for ourselves.
If I knew the athlete I was helping fund plan to stay at MSU for four years. But currently, you can't assume that. Also, since the athletes are supposedly making the schools millions, why am I the one having to pay them?Quote:
Originally Posted by HancockCountyDog
Because those millions are paying for all the sports that don’t make money for our school. If each sport could keep the money and didn’t have to share, the football team would have everything and the tennis team would have to split an Uber to go to matches.Quote:
Originally Posted by RezDog7
I agree that "responsibility" is the true beginning of adulthood. Some kids with druggie parents have to become adults at 16 by taking on the responsibility of protecting their little siblings. Some grown 45 year olds are not truly adults if they live their life ignorant of the fact they affect the world around them.Quote:
Originally Posted by R2Dawg
BUT, this is a big BUT here... if a 21 year old goes to class, does homework, works out and plays a sport by your definition doesn't have "responsibility", then does a recent college grad who's not married and is working their first job? I don't see how a single guy with no kids has anymore responsibility, but you'd never say that a 24 year old working a 9-5 isn't an adult/shouldn't have the right to take a higher paying job elsewhere (which is what portal+NIL is). So why is the 21 year old a child but the 24 year old an adult? If anything, the athlete has a "responsibility" to a team which is generally stronger than the responsibility and employee feels for their company.
I mean hell, we let 19 year old non athletes transfer colleges if they want too, and if the new school was offering 5k more in scholarships we'd applaud that young student for being so financially minded. But if the 19 year old plays football and transfers schools to make 200k he's an immature jerk who should have been happy with what he was getting at the 1st school?
Morever, what is "earn a living for a lifetime"? Bud if I could get paid millions of dollars a year to do a job you can be damned sure I would, whether that job is a traditional 9-5 or playing a college sport. Any one of us would, who'd pass up the option to make bank for a bit?
It seems you're mad they get to skip the 9-5 grind -so to speak- and make ridiculous money young instead of slowly building after decades of work. And yeah life isn't fair, but I don't see people here crying about inheritances or trust funds. Those adults didn't "earn" that money either. At least an athlete has to stay on the team to get paid.
At the end of the day, I think most on here are just pissed that these spoiled "never had responsibility" college students are getting paid way more than we are and are destroying our favorite sports in the process. College athletics is dead because of athletes getting paid, so we lash out at the athletes. They make it pretty easy too, with all the dumb tweets and entitlement that some put on display.
Well, do you think Lebby will be here 4+ years? He might, but if he went 11-1 you'd expect an LSU or a Texas to throw $10m at him and him to take the payday. We all know we're paying the coaching staff 1 season at a time. And you're employer is paying you 1 paycheck at a time- they know at any moment you could turn in a 2 weeks notice.Quote:
Originally Posted by RezDog7
Well, we pay these kids 1 season at a time. I really wish we didn't have the 1 time transfer rule, but we do. Almost every player is a free agent every year. Instead of paying 1 athlete $ a year for 4 years you're paying 1 athlete $ each year for 4 years, and the recipient may be different each year. But you're still paying the same amount for the same years of play.
All that said, I really hate to say it... but ultimately, almost all of us would objectively be better off if we cut off the university, let State sports suck, and invested the savings for our family to benefit from. But we care about State sports and can't stomach them sucking, so we support the team financially. If you can turn off your care and save the money for your kids I can't honestly say you shouldn't. But if you want State to be ok NIL is necessary
Now THERE is where players actually aren't getting paid because it doesn't cost kids anything to go to a public HS. This whole college thing to me is a joke saying they weren't getting paid when a 4 year college scholarship is worth well over 6 figures PLUS they were getting stipends to pay for their other living expenses. They may not have been getting paid what some people want them to get paid but just ask anyone whose actually had to pay for their child's college education or students that have to take loans to pay for college and they will say they were getting paid. Also, these college players only have a built in fanbase because of playing for colleges that a ton of folks have connections to. If colleges tomorrow all dropped their sports programs because it was just too much of a hassle and all these players had to go play on a minor league team, how much revenue would that even bring in? Probably not a heck of a lot. These guys would be mostly irrelevant like most players playing in minor league sports.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
One my biggest issues was that the NCAA was supposed to be a governing body to promote fair play and rules between the school so that one wouldn’t have a competitive edge over the other. Now that doesn’t mean under the table things didn’t used to happen, but if the ncaa did their job and punished everyone equally for breaking the rules, there could have been some semblance of competitive balance. Athletic budget sizes used to be the only thing that “legally” separated schools like us and Bama. At least it put the on the backs of the school to hire good ADs and coaches and to try to increase your budget to be competitive. Now, the NIL, transfer portal, and non existent ncaa has totally blown competitive balance out of the water, therefore creating an even bigger gap between schools like us and Bama. This is the biggest reason why I hate it all. It has no regulation and it the Wild West. May the deepest pockets win! It’s an unsustainable model and the competition gap will only widen. It disheartens me and I’m sure some of yall feel the same way. I don’t mind if the athletes gets a part of the pie, but this unregulated bullcrap we are watching unfold is ridiculous. If they want to get paid like adults, then sign a damn contract with the school and at least make something binding in all this mess. All I really want is to have that feeling back that we were at least competing on a level playing field. I don’t think I will ever have that feeling again and it’s why I’m losing interest.
Tuition(which is stupidly high now and getting worse), books, room and board, daily meals, stipend…. That’s getting paid and a damn good start to life. Now if they can get NIL, so be it. But what they were getting before wasn’t badQuote:
Originally Posted by maroonmania
It’s not setup to be employee right now and you know it.Quote:
Originally Posted by the_real_MSU_is_us
A few items:
1. The players deserve to make money and be able to do so.
2. Currently, the amounts are very very high in some cases.
Most importantly:
1. Why are there no contracts considering the amounts being paid?
2. The spirit of this law/rule is NAME IMAGE and LIKENESS and that is NOT how this is being done by and large. You can’t dispute that. Collectives are distributing funds “donated” to a collective and are getting NO value from their “employees”.
No one or very few are getting any value from this essentially, donated money.
If anyone is interested to hear or read the full context of what Geno said, the link is below. While he may have mentioned NIL, the crux of his argument was against the transfer portal. The OP slanted the context of his argument.
Geno also calls out one of our players (Park-Lane) for transferring from Seton Hall to us and insinuated that Seton Hall made her the player she is and that she should be loyal to them...
https://www.foxsports.com/stories/wo...w-do-you-coach
He's like Saban and hates a system was created to limit his success but at the same time is mature enough to say it.