Nick Rolovich (Wazzu) fired with cause

[BulldogBear]

I wonder how they're going to try to justify denying request for religious exemption, if indeed that is what has happened.

The short answer is you can't deny an exemption request unless you can argue that there isn't a reasonable accommodation.

The suits and counter suits over all of this kind of stuff are going to drag out for 2-4 years.

[dalmuti]

get the shot(s), my droogs

[msstate7]

Wonder how a situation like this was addressed in his contract

[TUSK]

He is about to get a huge raise without having to work...

Oh, and inB4thaLock.....

[Commercecomet24]

I wonder how they're going to try to justify denying request for religious exemption, if indeed that is what has happened.

The short answer is you can't deny an exemption request unless you can argue that there isn't a reasonable accommodation.

The suits and counter suits over all of this kind of stuff are going to drag out for 2-4 years.

Gonna create a whole new category of law practice for all the lawsuits coming over this stuff.

[msstate7]

Gonna create a whole new category of law practice for all the lawsuits coming over this stuff.

If there are any long term issues with the vaccine, do these mandates open up litigation?

[TUSK]

If there are any long term issues with the vaccine, do these mandates open up litigation?

yup.

[Dawgfan77]

I know a guy they can replace him with....

[dalmuti]

washington state law and precedent is fairly airtight vis a vis vaccines. inslee gonna get another unprecedented term

[BrunswickDawg]

I wonder how they're going to try to justify denying request for religious exemption, if indeed that is what has happened.

The short answer is you can't deny an exemption request unless you can argue that there isn't a reasonable accommodation.

The suits and counter suits over all of this kind of stuff are going to drag out for 2-4 years.

I can think of one way - if he's Catholic, the Pope has decreed all vaccines morally acceptable and that Catholics have a duty to get the vaccine. Kinda screws the religious exemption argument when the Holy See declares it null.

[chef dixon]

Religious exemption was his Hail Mary for not wanting to be told what to do

[Liverpooldawg]

The ignorance on the law and vaccine mandates is astounding. That issue was settled a LONG time ago by the Supreme Court. They are legal and Constitutional. It would take overturning several previous rulings to make it otherwise.

[dalmuti]

and people think we're conspiratorial as a fanbase....

https://i.imgur.com/T3mgteh.png

[msstate7]

I can think of one way - if he's Catholic, the Pope has decreed all vaccines morally acceptable and that Catholics have a duty to get the vaccine. Kinda screws the religious exemption argument when the Holy See declares it null.

Is he catholic? Bc I don't give a rip what the pope says about anything.

I'm not anti-vaccine either... got 1st dose and caught covid before 2nd, so don't need it

[bulldawg28]

I know a guy they can replace him with....

Ha

[TUSK]

washington state law and precedent is fairly airtight vis a vis vaccines. inslee gonna get another unprecedented term

Sweet...

They'd rather be alive, than free. Poor dumb bastards....

[Commercecomet24]

Sweet...

They'd rather be alive, than free. Poor dumb bastards....

You always know just what to say my friend!

[Homedawg]

I know a guy they can replace him with....
Hard to do considering last I heard he wasn't vaccinated either.... maybe he has since but I doubt it.

[BrunswickDawg]

Is he catholic? Bc I don't give a rip what the pope says about anything.

I'm not anti-vaccine either... got 1st dose and caught covid before 2nd, so don't need it

No idea - but the OP asked how you could ignore a religious exemption and I gave an example - your religious leader saying get the dang shot kinda cuts the legs out from under that.

And I'll say as a Catholic, we kinda pay attention to what the pope says. We may not follow it, but we pay attention.

[Todd4State]

No idea - but the OP asked how you could ignore a religious exemption and I gave an example - your religious leader saying get the dang shot kinda cuts the legs out from under that.

And I'll say as a Catholic, we kinda pay attention to what the pope says. We may not follow it, but we pay attention.

Maybe a better example would be a Jehovah's Witness or something like that.

[GeoDawg]

Sweet...

They'd rather be alive, than free. Poor dumb bastards....

Is that sort of like the American Patriot that said, "Give me liberty or give me death."

Also, I heard it said today that the average age of someone dying from Covid is larger than the average life expectancy. I don't know if it's true or not, but if so, work your head around that one.

[msstate7]

No idea - but the OP asked how you could ignore a religious exemption and I gave an example - your religious leader saying get the dang shot kinda cuts the legs out from under that.

And I'll say as a Catholic, we kinda pay attention to what the pope says. We may not follow it, but we pay attention.

Gotcha

[Lord McBuckethead]

I invite everyone to quit their jobs when the ?man? requires it. Leaves more money and work for me.

[viverlibre]

I believe in vaccines, but not mandates, especially for something with a 99.9% survivability rate by healthy people.

[Quaoarsking]

Maybe a better example would be a Jehovah's Witness or something like that.

https://www.npr.org/2021/10/04/1042577608/religious-exemptions-against-the-covid-19-vaccine-are-complicated-to-get

Both Jehovah's Witnesses and Christian Scientists (!) have released official statements that the COVID vaccine is not prohibited, so people in either of those groups may have trouble getting a religious exemption.

[Todd4State]

https://www.npr.org/2021/10/04/1042577608/religious-exemptions-against-the-covid-19-vaccine-are-complicated-to-get

Both Jehovah's Witnesses and Christian Scientists (!) have released official statements that the COVID vaccine is not prohibited, so people in either of those groups may have trouble getting a religious exemption.

I wasn't sure what their stance was on that. The Jehovah's Witnesses are typically pretty strict about stuff like blood products and things like that.

I know Pentecostals can be strict about certain things as well.

[Interpolation_Dawg_EX]

Aren't vaccines provinces of the states?

Is there anything in writing for the businesses with 100+ employees that fall under the mandate? There is an EO for fed employees with compliance dates in NOV but they still have not issued guidance on submitting exemptions and I don't think they have even started on a plan. See there's this thing called the FY22 Defense Spending Authorization Bill and buried in Sec 720 is guidance on exemptions from mandated Covid shots. It's passed the house but still has to pass the senate and the president before it becomes law. Then they have to develop and implement the plan. This shit will drag into 2022 and I'd be willing to bet in late NOV 22 that Covid will be an after thought.

LOL at you who thought the government could be efficient.

[BeardoMSU]

Sweet...

They'd rather be alive, than free. Poor dumb bastards....

Alabama black snake?***

[Commercecomet24]

Aren't vaccines provinces of the states?

Is there anything in writing for the businesses with 100+ employees that fall under the mandate? There is an EO for fed employees with compliance dates in NOV but they still have not issued guidance on submitting exemptions and I don't think they have even started on a plan. See there's this thing called the FY22 Defense Spending Authorization Bill and buried in Sec 720 is guidance on exemptions from mandated Covid shots. It's passed the house but still has to pass the senate and the president before it becomes law. Then they have to develop and implement the plan. This shit will drag into 2022 and I'd be willing to bet in late NOV 22 that Covid will be an after thought.

LOL at you who thought the government could be efficient.

Efficient and government don't belong in the same sentence lol

[dalmuti]

Aren't vaccines provinces of the states?

Is there anything in writing for the businesses with 100+ employees that fall under the mandate? There is an EO for fed employees with compliance dates in NOV but they still have not issued guidance on submitting exemptions and I don't think they have even started on a plan. See there's this thing called the FY22 Defense Spending Authorization Bill and buried in Sec 720 is guidance on exemptions from mandated Covid shots. It's passed the house but still has to pass the senate and the president before it becomes law. Then they have to develop and implement the plan. This shit will drag into 2022 and I'd be willing to bet in late NOV 22 that Covid will be an after thought.

LOL at you who thought the government could be efficient.

governor of washington has been up front about this thing for months. state law is entirely on his side.

[parabrave]

No idea - but the OP asked how you could ignore a religious exemption and I gave an example - your religious leader saying get the dang shot kinda cuts the legs out from under that.

And I'll say as a Catholic, we kinda pay attention to what the pope says. We may not follow it, but we pay attention.

Not this idiot we got for a Pope.

[GeoDawg]

Aren't vaccines provinces of the states?

Is there anything in writing for the businesses with 100+ employees that fall under the mandate? There is an EO for fed employees with compliance dates in NOV but they still have not issued guidance on submitting exemptions and I don't think they have even started on a plan. See there's this thing called the FY22 Defense Spending Authorization Bill and buried in Sec 720 is guidance on exemptions from mandated Covid shots. It's passed the house but still has to pass the senate and the president before it becomes law. Then they have to develop and implement the plan. This shit will drag into 2022 and I'd be willing to bet in late NOV 22 that Covid will be an after thought.

LOL at you who thought the government could be efficient.

I'm a fed employee in a civilian position. The deadline given in the EO is the 22nd of November, just before Thanksgiving. Imagine that. My agency is beginning to ramp up to push employees toward that deadline. And yes, you are correct that no guidance has been given on how to apply for an exemption. So, we will see what happens.

I can tell you that I just sat in on teleconference with our District Leader in which he went over the EO and tried to answer some questions. If the chat line of that teleconference is any indication, I would guess that there are 30 to 50 percent of employees that are balking at the mandate. How many of those actually don't get the vaccine is anybodies guess, but there could be a significant number and it could impact the mission of the agency. You could tell that was the concern of the District Leader. He is between a rock and a hard place. He has to implement the policy, but realizes it may result in the mission not being accomplished or greatly delayed.

And before anybody says great, less federal employees. You won't see a refund in your taxes, but you could see a delay in receiving social security checks, retirement checks, or not being able to go fishing at your favorite fishing hole or camp at your favorite camping site.

Oh and by the way, the mandates apply to federal contractors as well.

And before anyone asks, I am vaccinated and I'm retiring at the end of the year. Either way, I'm good to go, unless they are delayed in processing my retirement.

[Interpolation_Dawg_EX]

I'm a fed employee in a civilian position. The deadline given in the EO is the 22nd of November, just before Thanksgiving. Imagine that. My agency is beginning to ramp us to push employees toward that deadline. And yes, you are correct that no guidance has been given on how to apply for an exemption. So, we will see what happens.

I can tell you that I just sat in on teleconference with our District Leader in which he went over the EO and tried to answer some questions. If the chat line of that teleconference is any indication, I would guess that there are 30 to 50 percent of employees that are balking at the mandate. How many of those actually don't get the vaccine is anybodies guess, but there could be a significant number and it could impact the mission of the agency. You could tell that was the concern of the District Leader. He is between a rock and a hard place. He has to implement the policy, but realizes it may result in the mission not being accomplished or greatly delayed.



Congrats on your retirement!

From what I hear in those circles is around the same %.

One item of note in the Bill I mentioned above is the addition of proof of previous Covid infection as compliance with the vaccine mandate. Imagine that.

[Commercecomet24]

Congrats on your retirement!

From what I hear in those circles is around the same %.

One item of note in the Bill I mentioned above is the addition of proof of previous Covid infection as compliance with the vaccine mandate. Imagine that.

And that should be compliance. Infection provides strong immunity from covid, in most cases more so than the vaccine. Heck I've been vaccinated and had covid after so I feel pretty safe from covid lol!

[shoeless joe]

And that should be compliance. Infection provides strong immunity from covid, in most cases more so than the vaccine. Heck I've been vaccinated and had covid after so I feel pretty safe from covid lol!

Me and my wife got covid last November. I had an extremely light case and contracted it again at the very end of august. The wife didn’t get it this go round. She decided a few weeks ago to get her anti bodies tested. They were higher than what is expected from the vaccine 11 months after she had it.

[Commercecomet24]

Me and my wife got covid last November. I had an extremely light case and contracted it again at the very end of august. The wife didn’t get it this go round. She decided a few weeks ago to get her anti bodies tested. They were higher than what is expected from the vaccine 11 months after she had it.

And this is what most studies are showing. Strong immunity from having been infected. Having a previous infection should count as compliance. Ive been vaccinated but I also believe it's a persons individual choice whether or not they want the shot.

[confucius say]

washington state law and precedent is fairly airtight vis a vis vaccines. inslee gonna get another unprecedented term

Title VII has nothing to do with state law.

[Interpolation_Dawg_EX]

And that should be compliance. Infection provides strong immunity from covid, in most cases more so than the vaccine. Heck I've been vaccinated and had covid after so I feel pretty safe from covid lol!

Yeah it's at least a step in the common sense direction.

I have a friend who has traveled from coast to coast on flights, been exposed to all variants and still didn't get Covid. They also aren't prescribed any meds and don't take OTC's and are routinely healthy. Why should they be forced to take the vaccine?

[confucius say]

The ignorance on the law and vaccine mandates is astounding. That issue was settled a LONG time ago by the Supreme Court. They are legal and Constitutional. It would take overturning several previous rulings to make it otherwise.

That is not even close to true with respect to religious exceptions under title vii or disability exceptions under the ADA. You're obviously not an employment lawyer.

[Commercecomet24]

Yeah it's at least a step in the common sense direction.

I have a friend who has traveled from coast to coast on flights, been exposed to all variants and still didn't get Covid. They also aren't prescribed any meds and don't take OTC's and are routinely healthy. Why should they be forced to take the vaccine?

Agree completely.

[confucius say]

Is he catholic? Bc I don't give a rip what the pope says about anything.

I'm not anti-vaccine either... got 1st dose and caught covid before 2nd, so don't need it

It doesn't matter if he's catholic or not. SCOTUS has been clear that your request for a religious exception does not have to be founded upon any tenant of any recognized religion. I can invent my own religion and be the only person who subscribes to it and it is valid so long as it is my sincerely held belief. The EEOC has cautioned employers about this.

[Commercecomet24]

It doesn't matter if he's catholic or not. SCOTUS has been clear that your request for a religious exception does not have to be founded upon any tenant of any recognized religion. I can invent my own religion and be the only person who subscribes to it and it is valid so long as it is my sincerely held belief. The EEOC has cautioned employers about this.

And this is one of the reasons there's gonna be litigation out the wazoo on this.

[confucius say]

And this is one of the reasons there's gonna be litigation out the wazoo on this.

Already is. A vaccine mandated law passed by a state legislature has been upheld, as Liverpool referred to on the previous page. But a vaccine mandate via executive order or via an emergency temporary standard through OSHA (which is what Biden is doing) has never been ruled upon by SCOTUS. Is it legal? We will see, but I have my reservations.

Even if it is legal though (or if a state mandates it), federal law is clear that you are exempted from it if a sincerely held religious belief prevents you from taking the vaccine and a reasonable accommodation (like working remote, working alone, or daily testing) exists that doesn't cause your employer an undue hardship.

[Commercecomet24]

Already is. A vaccine mandated law passed by a state legislature has been upheld, as Liverpool referred to on the previous page. But a vaccine mandate via executive order or via an emergency temporary standard through OSHA (which is what Biden is doing) has never been ruled upon by SCOTUS. Is it legal? We will see, but I have my reservations.

Even if it is legal though (or if a state mandates it), federal law is clear that you are exempted from it if a sincerely held religious belief prevents you from taking the vaccine and a reasonable accommodation (like working remote, working alone, or daily testing) exists that doesn't cause your employer an undue hardship.

Appreciate the info. Good stuff!

[confucius say]

Appreciate the info. Good stuff!

Some good articles on how it breaks down out there if you google religious exemption to vaccine mandate. Or I can send you my power point if you're a nerd who really is interested, 😂

[Matt3467]

No idea - but the OP asked how you could ignore a religious exemption and I gave an example - your religious leader saying get the dang shot kinda cuts the legs out from under that.

And I'll say as a Catholic, we kinda pay attention to what the pope says. We may not follow it, but we pay attention.


Maybe a better example would be a Jehovah's Witness or something like that.


https://www.npr.org/2021/10/04/1042577608/religious-exemptions-against-the-covid-19-vaccine-are-complicated-to-get

Both Jehovah's Witnesses and Christian Scientists (!) have released official statements that the COVID vaccine is not prohibited, so people in either of those groups may have trouble getting a religious exemption.

You are not required to have beliefs that align 100% with a particular denomination. I'd say most people in any kind of church don't all agree on everything. All you need to do in requesting a religious exemption is to be sincere with your beliefs. Federal, state and local entities are required by the Constitution to not discriminate against religious people and the Supreme Court has said that religious rights remain intact even during a pandemic. I know many people who are opposed to the vaccines purely due to their use of aborted fetal cells in either use or testing. A very large hospital near me has started requiring those that seek a religious exemption based on that to also sign another form stating that they will refuse to take Tylenol, Ibuprofen, Claritin, Zoloft, etc as those were developed using aborted fetal cells as well (it was big news story around here).

[Matt3467]

This:

"It doesn't matter if he's catholic or not. SCOTUS has been clear that your request for a religious exception does not have to be founded upon any tenant of any recognized religion. I can invent my own religion and be the only person who subscribes to it and it is valid so long as it is my sincerely held belief. The EEOC has cautioned employers about this." Confucius Say

[Commercecomet24]

Some good articles on how it breaks down out there if you google religious exemption to vaccine mandate. Or I can send you my power point if you're a nerd who really is interested, 😂

I'm gonna go do some research on it and I may take you up on the PowerPoint. I'm always interested in learning and especially about this that's affecting so many people. Appreciate the info.

[BayouDawg]

The mandate is gonna look really silly when we look back in about 5 years. Anyone with common sense knows this will be like the flu and be with us for eternity due to it having animal hosts. Its all a power play and some people take it hook line and sinker.

[skadoosh14]

There's an easy solution for this. Take the tin foil hat off and just get the damn vaccine.

[dalmuti]

It doesn't matter if he's catholic or not. SCOTUS has been clear that your request for a religious exception does not have to be founded upon any tenant of any recognized religion. I can invent my own religion and be the only person who subscribes to it and it is valid so long as it is my sincerely held belief. The EEOC has cautioned employers about this.

you might not get officially fired, you'll just not officially get paid. eazy peazy

[TUSK]

Can't I just self identify as "vaccinated"...? Surely that should count, right?

[Commercecomet24]

Can't I just self identify as "vaccinated"...? Surely that should count, right?

I can't give you anymore rep! Nice one!

[starkvegasdawg]

There's an easy solution for this. Take the tin foil hat off and just get the damn vaccine.

Amazing this time last year it was all those on the left that had the tin foil hat on. They didn't take it off until early November last year. I'm trying to put my finger on exactly what happened around that time that changed their minds almost immediately.

[BayouDawg]

There's an easy solution for this. Take the tin foil hat off and just get the damn vaccine.

Yes everyone that wants to take the shot should and everyone that does not should be able to make that choice. Government mandating it is just going to make more people hesitant anyway.

[Quaoarsking]

Yes everyone that wants to take the shot should and everyone that does not should be able to make that choice. Government mandating it is just going to make more people hesitant anyway.

Apparently not. Every other story in the news these days is about how yet again 99% of employees of whatever company got vaccinated after a mandate was put into place.

[Todd4State]

Apparently not. Every other story in the news these days is about how yet again 99% of employees of whatever company got vaccinated after a mandate was put into place.

Yeah. After the fired all of the unvaccinated ones. LOL.

[Quaoarsking]

Yeah. After the fired all of the unvaccinated ones. LOL.

No, that's the point. Even when you see a story about how some huge corporation or hospital fired a few hundred employees, it turns out to be less than 1% of the workforce almost every time. The vaccine mandates work, regardless of how people feel about them theoretically.

[chef dixon]

Amazing this time last year it was all those on the left that had the tin foil hat on. They didn't take it off until early November last year. I'm trying to put my finger on exactly what happened around that time that changed their minds almost immediately.

People have got to stop looking at it through that right v left lens. I can guarantee you 95% of physicians were not changing their stance as pro vaccine based on the election result.

[Quaoarsking]

People have got to stop looking at it through that right v left lens. I can guarantee you 95% of physicians were not changing their stance as pro vaccine based on the election result.

People should also stop arguing in bad faith and recognize the clear difference in "I wouldn't take the vaccine on the orders of X politician - it would have to be approved by scientists" and "I'm not taking the vaccine period" rather than dishonestly trying to draw an equivalence between the two. But of course people often don't do what they should do.

[confucius say]

People have got to stop looking at it through that right v left lens. I can guarantee you 95% of physicians were not changing their stance as pro vaccine based on the election result.

I agree. But politicians did. Including our VP, admittedly. They all suck and most are evil. They work for us, not the other way around. Our republic is built on that rock. At some point that's been lost.

[NWADAWG]

The ignorance on the law and vaccine mandates is astounding. That issue was settled a LONG time ago by the Supreme Court. They are legal and Constitutional. It would take overturning several previous rulings to make it otherwise.

The only thing that will get them in trouble is if they have real discrepancies in how they handle exemptions.

[Coach34]

https://aaronsiri.substack.com/p/whistleblower-fda-and-cdc-ignore-3e2

[Johnson85]

I can think of one way - if he's Catholic, the Pope has decreed all vaccines morally acceptable and that Catholics have a duty to get the vaccine. Kinda screws the religious exemption argument when the Holy See declares it null.

No, it doesn't. Even if he were Catholic, it wouldn't do it. There are times that the Pope speaks for the Church, but not every stupid thing the Pope says become doctrine thankfully.

[Johnson85]

https://www.npr.org/2021/10/04/1042577608/religious-exemptions-against-the-covid-19-vaccine-are-complicated-to-get

Both Jehovah's Witnesses and Christian Scientists (!) have released official statements that the COVID vaccine is not prohibited, so people in either of those groups may have trouble getting a religious exemption.

Really doesn't matter if they are applying the law correctly. All that matters on that part of the test is that it is a sincere religious belief. The entire point of religious exemptions is to protect those outside of mainstream. Until recently, you didn't really need a religious exemption for mainstream positions because there weren't really places beyond the municipal level that an animus towards religion was actually a winning political message.

[Johnson85]

Already is. A vaccine mandated law passed by a state legislature has been upheld, as Liverpool referred to on the previous page. But a vaccine mandate via executive order or via an emergency temporary standard through OSHA (which is what Biden is doing) has never been ruled upon by SCOTUS. Is it legal? We will see, but I have my reservations.

Even if it is legal though (or if a state mandates it), federal law is clear that you are exempted from it if a sincerely held religious belief prevents you from taking the vaccine and a reasonable accommodation (like working remote, working alone, or daily testing) exists that doesn't cause your employer an undue hardship.

That's probably not what Biden is doing. As soon as the ETS is put in place, it will be challenged and should be enjoined. The announcement of the ETS is just to give employers cover to put mandates in place. The longer it drags out between the announcement and actually doing something that can be legally challenged, the better for the employers trying to use it as an excuse.

[Liverpooldawg]

https://www.npr.org/2021/10/04/1042577608/religious-exemptions-against-the-covid-19-vaccine-are-complicated-to-get

Both Jehovah's Witnesses and Christian Scientists (!) have released official statements that the COVID vaccine is not prohibited, so people in either of those groups may have trouble getting a religious exemption.

Those are the two that most often object to things like vaccines. If they approve then a religious objection should be almost impossible to get approved.

[Liverpooldawg]

And that should be compliance. Infection provides strong immunity from covid, in most cases more so than the vaccine. Heck I've been vaccinated and had covid after so I feel pretty safe from covid lol!

You have it exactly backwards. Now you are correct the best is having covid first and then getting the vaccine.

[msstate7]

Desantis can't get into the WH soon enough

[MadDawg]

People should also stop arguing in bad faith and recognize the clear difference in "I wouldn't take the vaccine on the orders of X politician - it would have to be approved by scientists" and "I'm not taking the vaccine period" rather than dishonestly trying to draw an equivalence between the two. But of course people often don't do what they should do.

Actually I think people should stop pretending like what our disaster of a Vice President was doing was anything other than playing politics with people's lives. She didn't want Trump to get credit for the vaccine, so she sowed doubt and hesitancy in people's minds. Period. To suggest anything else is just mind-numbingly ignorant. If her doing that killed a few hundred or thousand people, she could care less. And anyone defending it as well.

[Hot Rock]

There have been vaccine mandates for generations in order to attend public school. Why is everyone so pissed off over this one?

I think it is because of the internet and social media. There is misinformation ranging from bold faced lies to partial truths that has created a divide between groups.

If you have a stance, there is a place you can go to reinforce your beliefs on the internet. We aren't living in the information age but the misinformation age.

Among the major news sources the worst offenders are FOX, CNN and MSNBC. I find ABC & CBS are much less biased and I prefer BBC. I find BBC the least biased. I see them reporting US News from an outsiders view point which I find refreshing.

Oh well, this pandemic surely is coming to a close. We should be getting closer to that herd immunity thingy at some point. At least that's my story and I am sticking to it.

[Commercecomet24]

You have it exactly backwards. Now you are correct the best is having covid first and then getting the vaccine.

Well unfortunately covid chose me after I was vaccinated, lol. but have also had the antibody test after covid and my levels are higher than with just the vaccine.

[msugolf]

There have been vaccine mandates for generations in order to attend public school. Why is everyone so pissed off over this one?

I think it is because of the internet and social media. There is misinformation ranging from bold faced lies to partial truths that has created a divide between groups.

If you have a stance, there is a place you can go to reinforce your beliefs on the internet. We aren't living in the information age but the misinformation age.

Among the major news sources the worst offenders are FOX, CNN and MSNBC. I find ABC & CBS are much less biased and I prefer BBC. I find BBC the least biased. I see them reporting US News from an outsiders view point which I find refreshing.

Oh well, this pandemic surely is coming to a close. We should be getting closer to that herd immunity thingy at some point. At least that's my story and I am sticking to it.

Gee I wonder why? Maybe its because it stems from a virus that was created in a lab by a country that has their hand in manipulating everything in this world to benefit them, through corporations, paying off politicians, pharma. And at a time a certain political party went batshit crazy cause a certain someone was elected president a few years back and decided to turn the world upside down to not have him re-elected. And then use every tactic imaginable to divide the country by creating all these lockdowns and mandates, with using a vaccine that was created in record time without testing, for something that is just as beatable without the vax.

Nah, that can't be it. Probably people just scared of needles.

[Coach34]

Gee I wonder why? Maybe its because it stems from a virus that was created in a lab by a country that has their hand in manipulating everything in this world to benefit them, through corporations, paying off politicians, pharma. And at a time a certain political party went batshit crazy cause a certain someone was elected president a few years back and decided to turn the world upside down to not have him re-elected. And then use every tactic imaginable to divide the country by creating all these lockdowns and mandates, with using a vaccine that was created in record time without testing, for something that is just as beatable without the vax.

Nah, that can't be it. Probably people just scared of needles.

Nailed it

[Liverpooldawg]

The mandate is gonna look really silly when we look back in about 5 years. Anyone with common sense knows this will be like the flu and be with us for eternity due to it having animal hosts. Its all a power play and some people take it hook line and sinker.

Some employers require the flu shot. This one is deadlier and more debilitating than the flu. It causes way more missed work time.

[Liverpooldawg]

Well unfortunately covid chose me after I was vaccinated, lol. but have also had the antibody test after covid and my levels are higher than with just the vaccine.

That too but it's better the other way around. What you had backwards is natural immunity being better than the vaccine. Most reputable studies show exactly the opposite. There have been a few that have been seized on by certain media outlets that show the other way, but the preponderance of the evidence so far says the vaccines do better.

[Liverpooldawg]

Gee I wonder why? Maybe its because it stems from a virus that was created in a lab by a country that has their hand in manipulating everything in this world to benefit them, through corporations, paying off politicians, pharma. And at a time a certain political party went batshit crazy cause a certain someone was elected president a few years back and decided to turn the world upside down to not have him re-elected. And then use every tactic imaginable to divide the country by creating all these lockdowns and mandates, with using a vaccine that was created in record time without testing, for something that is just as beatable without the vax.

Nah, that can't be it. Probably people just scared of needles.

You need to take off the tinfoil hat.

[Liverpooldawg]

Really doesn't matter if they are applying the law correctly. All that matters on that part of the test is that it is a sincere religious belief. The entire point of religious exemptions is to protect those outside of mainstream. Until recently, you didn't really need a religious exemption for mainstream positions because there weren't really places beyond the municipal level that an animus towards religion was actually a winning political message.

Actually you can't all of a sudden adopt a "sincere religious belief" to get around something you don't like. It has to be a previously held belief that you have evidence of. It also generally has to be consistent with a known religious sect and you must have had a previous and current association with that sect. You can't just make up your own religion to get out of something.

[BayouDawg]

Some employers require the flu shot. This one is deadlier and more debilitating than the flu. It causes way more missed work time.

And thats fine if a private company wants to mandate a shot but the government mandating it will only make things worse and more divided.

[Liverpooldawg]

And thats fine if a private company wants to mandate a shot but the government mandating it will only make things worse and more divided.

Why? You had to take government mandated vaccines when you were a kid. Government vaccine mandates have been around, and legal, since vaccines have. George Washington even mandated small pox inoculation for the Continental Army. It helped us win our independence because the British didn't and their army here suffered terribly from it.

[Johnson85]

There have been vaccine mandates for generations in order to attend public school. Why is everyone so pissed off over this one?

I think it is because of the internet and social media. There is misinformation ranging from bold faced lies to partial truths that has created a divide between groups.

If you have a stance, there is a place you can go to reinforce your beliefs on the internet. We aren't living in the information age but the misinformation age.

Among the major news sources the worst offenders are FOX, CNN and MSNBC. I find ABC & CBS are much less biased and I prefer BBC. I find BBC the least biased. I see them reporting US News from an outsiders view point which I find refreshing.

Oh well, this pandemic surely is coming to a close. We should be getting closer to that herd immunity thingy at some point. At least that's my story and I am sticking to it.

1) It's new. It seems pretty safe, but people don't like being mandated to take something when they don't know what, if any, long term impacts there are.
2) If you're youngish and healthy, Covid is still pretty low risk to you. The vaccine is leaky. Combine that with the fact that the vaccine is new, and it's not the type of disease that warrants trampling on people's liberty.
3) The mandates are a little bit about public health, but it's a lot about putting the thumb down on people. That's why there isn't the obvious exception for prior infection. They want people to get the vaccine, but they'll gladly sacrifice some willing compliance in exchange for being able to get the satisfaction of forcing people to get it with the threat of their livelihood. People see that it's more about putting the thumb down on people so that makes them distrust any statements about its safety or efficacy.
4) Pretty much every institution associated with the government has shown itself to be a combination of partisan and incompetent. Some of the incompetence is because they are partisan, but some of the dumb partisanship is because they are staffed with the type of mediocrities that have the intelligence that leads to being partisan and incompetent independently. That doesn't inspire a lot of confidence. This is compounded by them saying stupid things like "the vaccine is proven safe", when obviously it's not proven safe for the things people are largely worried about.
5) A lot of medical associations have shown themselves to place more emphasis on wokeness than competency and science. People don't pay attention enough to know which ones are still focused on science and which ones aren't, so they don't have a trusted source to look to.
6) There's no credible news institution that people can rely on. We have "infotainment" like the news stations and hopelessly compromised places like Reuters, the AP, the NYT, etc., so they can't point people to credible sources, or at least can't be trusted when they say a source is credible.

If in five years you don't see any negative impacts from the mRNA vaccines, there won't be nearly as much trouble getting people to take the annual ones that are presumably coming like the flu shot. And hopefully we'll get some mRNA vaccines for other existing viruses.

[Extendedcab]

https://aaronsiri.substack.com/p/whistleblower-fda-and-cdc-ignore-3e2

OH my! You don't hear that on the mainstream news, do you!

[Coach34]

You need to take off the tinfoil hat.

haha- I got to hear this. What part of his post incorrect?

[Liverpooldawg]

haha- I got to hear this. What part of his post incorrect?

All of it. It does do a nice summation of every crack pot conspiracy theory out there though. Just for the record to head you off, he only Democrat I have ever voted for in an election for a national level post is John C. Stennis.

[Liverpooldawg]

OH my! You don't hear that on the mainstream news, do you!

With reason.

[Coach34]

All of it. It does do a nice summation of every crack pot conspiracy theory out there though. Just for the record to head you off, he only Democrat I have ever voted for in an election for a national level post is John C. Stennis.

Wow. So you believe the virus came from a wet market Pangolin? You're even more dumb than I thought

[Extendedcab]

With reason.

What a first hand account of events? Posters on this site quote friends of friends of friends that work in the medical profession to form and post their opinion, but here you have a first hand account and you poo poo it!

Priceless!

[OLJWales]

Not this idiot we got for a Pope.

Yep. The current pope has been left winged authoritarian and his position means absolute dick. If I'm a Catholic , I go with my heart and Bible; not what an overly political pope says.

[Interpolation_Dawg_EX]

That too but it's better the other way around. What you had backwards is natural immunity being better than the vaccine. Most reputable studies show exactly the opposite. There have been a few that have been seized on by certain media outlets that show the other way, but the preponderance of the evidence so far says the vaccines do better.


Why? You had to take government mandated vaccines when you were a kid. Government vaccine mandates have been around, and legal, since vaccines have. George Washington even mandated small pox inoculation for the Continental Army. It helped us win our independence because the British didn't and their army here suffered terribly from it.

If natural immunity is not as good then why is the federal government adding proof of Covid as compliance with the vaccine mandate? This is an EO and there is no precedent for the Supreme Court and federal vaccine mandates. It says on the CDC website that mRNA vaccines are a new treatment for these types of viruses. Are you saying they are lying?

[The Federalist Engineer]

Gonna create a whole new category of law practice for all the lawsuits coming over this stuff.

The job of the future is Vaccine and COVID law.

"One Call, That's All"

Opening question to Dr. Fauci, "What is gain of function and why was it too dangerous to do in American labs"

2nd Question, "Why were you and your associates sponsoring it in Wuhan?"

[Liverpooldawg]

1) It's new. It seems pretty safe, but people don't like being mandated to take something when they don't know what, if any, long term impacts there are.
2) If you're youngish and healthy, Covid is still pretty low risk to you. The vaccine is leaky. Combine that with the fact that the vaccine is new, and it's not the type of disease that warrants trampling on people's liberty.
3) The mandates are a little bit about public health, but it's a lot about putting the thumb down on people. That's why there isn't the obvious exception for prior infection. They want people to get the vaccine, but they'll gladly sacrifice some willing compliance in exchange for being able to get the satisfaction of forcing people to get it with the threat of their livelihood. People see that it's more about putting the thumb down on people so that makes them distrust any statements about its safety or efficacy.
4) Pretty much every institution associated with the government has shown itself to be a combination of partisan and incompetent. Some of the incompetence is because they are partisan, but some of the dumb partisanship is because they are staffed with the type of mediocrities that have the intelligence that leads to being partisan and incompetent independently. That doesn't inspire a lot of confidence. This is compounded by them saying stupid things like "the vaccine is proven safe", when obviously it's not proven safe for the things people are largely worried about.
5) A lot of medical associations have shown themselves to place more emphasis on wokeness than competency and science. People don't pay attention enough to know which ones are still focused on science and which ones aren't, so they don't have a trusted source to look to.
6) There's no credible news institution that people can rely on. We have "infotainment" like the news stations and hopelessly compromised places like Reuters, the AP, the NYT, etc., so they can't point people to credible sources, or at least can't be trusted when they say a source is credible.

If in five years you don't see any negative impacts from the mRNA vaccines, there won't be nearly as much trouble getting people to take the annual ones that are presumably coming like the flu shot. And hopefully we'll get some mRNA vaccines for other existing viruses.

Your #2 is disgusting. Completely and absolutely disgusting.

[Liverpooldawg]

Wow. So you believe the virus came from a wet market Pangolin? You're even more dumb than I thought

You have no educated idea where it came from and neither do I. You are just as dumb as I have always thought you were.

[Liverpooldawg]

What a first hand account of events? Posters on this site quote friends of friends of friends that work in the medical profession to form and post their opinion, but here you have a first hand account and you poo poo it!

Priceless!

That is your account is it?

[OLJWales]

You have no educated idea where it came from and neither do I. You are just as dumb as I have always thought you were.

You have not been keeping up. Fauci and the Chi-Com lab are real. We've been lied to.

[Liverpooldawg]

If natural immunity is not as good then why is the federal government adding proof of Covid as compliance with the vaccine mandate? This is an EO and there is no precedent for the Supreme Court and federal vaccine mandates. It says on the CDC website that mRNA vaccines are a new treatment for these types of viruses. Are you saying they are lying?

Good grief, I read, and understand, studies. By the way, there have been federal vaccine mandates since we have had a military. You are using some one the worst of the anitvaxx nut job things too. Vaccines are not treatment.

[Liverpooldawg]

You have not been keeping up. Fauci and the Chi-Com lab are real. We've been lied to.

I have been keeping up, but there is no evidence of that yet, except in nut job conspiracy crap. It may turn out to be true, but then again it may not. People just take things and run with them. The thing is, it really makes no difference now, the genie is out of the bottle. What do you want to do, nuke China?

[basedog]

Your #2 is disgusting. Completely and absolutely disgusting.

Are you for mandate Covid vaccines?

[OLJWales]

Your #2 is disgusting. Completely and absolutely disgusting.

I though it was spot on along with his other stuff.

[OLJWales]

I have been keeping up, but there is no evidence of that yet, except in nut job conspiracy crap. It may turn out to be true, but then again it may not. People just take things and run with them. The thing is, it really makes no difference now, the genie is out of the bottle. What do you want to do, nuke China?

Start by firing Fauci. He also was in charge when antibiotics were being pumped out like candy. He and his pharma peddling wife need to be in jail..

[Liverpooldawg]

Are you for mandate Covid vaccines?

Yes.

[Liverpooldawg]

Start by firing Fauci. He also was in charge when antibiotics were being pumped out like candy. He and his pharma peddling wife need to be in jail..
Firing him might make you feel better, but it's not going to change a thing. COVID will still be here and we will still be trying to convince idiots to do what's right. So, what exactly do you have against antibiotics?

[Dawgfan77]

You need to take off the tinfoil hat.

You been wrong since day one on this thing. It's you that's been wearing the tinfoil hat. It's ok to come out of the basement now

[Coach34]

You have no educated idea where it came from and neither do I. You are just as dumb as I have always thought you were.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXg3v8zQj2U

[Liverpooldawg]

I though it was spot on along with his other stuff.

That position says you are all for sacrificing others so you can do what you want. That argument is absolutely disgusting. It's also totally un-American. It is the hallmark of ALL tyrants.

[OLJWales]

Firing him might make you feel better, but it's not going to change a thing. COVID will still be here and we will still be trying to convince idiots to do what's right. So, what exactly do you have against antibiotics?

Are you old enough to remember how they were over prescribed? I did my own research back then and refused to go long instead letting whatever ailed me to run its course without antibiotics. Haven't had a flu shot nor a covid shot. I'm 58 and recovered from covid about seven weeks or so ago. Extreme exhaustion is all that I suffered. For the first time since I can't remember for the first time I'm probably close to 20 years I did take medicine a five-day Supply on day 4 hours back on my feet. I think my reluctance to take antibiotics back in the day improve my immune system.

[Liverpooldawg]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXg3v8zQj2U

Stewart on Colbert is really educational. LOL. No wonder.

[The Federalist Engineer]

Wow. So you believe the virus came from a wet market Pangolin? You're even more dumb than I thought

The Furim Cleavage Site (the pointy things coming off the ball) of the Virus does not even prefer the cells of any animal for "binding", more than humans. Human's are the top match.

https://images.theconversation.com/files/334824/original/file-20200513-156651-1b7wiyf.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=1000&fit=clip

The protein spikes on the virus were mapped to various animals. The number-1 most appropriate animal for the Virus is Humans. Bats can't get this Virus. The pangolin is #2.

No Pangolin has ever been found with this Virus. Like Johnnie Cochran said, "if it doesn't fit, you must acquit." By the way, it is highly improbable for a virus to specialize for Humans but live in other creatures. Especially a creature that we do not co-habitat with. Also, like Johnie Cochran would say, "did you see any Pangolins in the Wuhan wet market and did you test him?" China released an inventory of the Wet Market offerings, there was no Pangolin. Maybe it's hard to inventory a sausage with 7 different varmints mixed in.

That said, non-China based scientists that routinely read and discuss Virology have documents (now deleted from Wuhan's published white papers) where a Virus that is 95% genetic match to COVID-19 was shown in 2012. The scientists are not hackers, they are the EliteDawgs of Virology. So they re-post, tag, and like documents from all over the world, related to Virology. It would be like posting a Tweet from John Cohen, even after Cohen deletes it, it will still exist with us. They have proof of COVID-19 without the Furim Cleavage Site, the pre-Engineered version basically.

My sisters (MSU grads) but with PhDs and MDs from schools in the Northeast are my source of information, I recommend anyone to explore this for themselves.

[Liverpooldawg]

Are you old enough to remember how they were over prescribed? I did my own research back then and refused to go long instead letting whatever ailed me to run its course without antibiotics. Haven't had a flu shot nor a covid shot. I'm 58 and recovered from covid about seven weeks or so ago. Extreme exhaustion is all that I suffered. For the first time since I can't remember for the first time I'm probably close to 20 years I did take medicine a five-day Supply on day 4 hours back on my feet. I think my reluctance to take antibiotics back in the day improve my immune system.

I'm your age, and NOW I understand. LOL. You are one of those. LOL again.

[OLJWales]

That position says you are all for sacrificing others so you can do what you want. That argument is absolutely disgusting. It's also totally un-American. It is the hallmark of ALL tyrants.

We the tyrants? Damn. Whose forcing who here? Are we pushing to make getting a shot illegal?

[msstate7]

We the tyrants? Damn. Whose forcing who here? Are we pushing to make getting a shot illegal?

For real. What a clown

[Coach34]

Stewart on Colbert is really educational. LOL. No wonder.

Stewart's use of comedy to show idiotic it is for people to believe it wasnt from the lab makes its point very well.

[Coach34]

The Furim Cleavage Site (the pointy things coming off the ball) of the Virus does not even prefer the cells of any animal for "binding", more than humans. Human's are the top match.

https://images.theconversation.com/files/334824/original/file-20200513-156651-1b7wiyf.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=1000&fit=clip

The protein spikes on the virus were mapped to various animals. The number-1 most appropriate animal for the Virus is Humans. Bats can't get this Virus. The pangolin is #2.

No Pangolin has ever been found with this Virus. Like Johnnie Cochran said, "if it doesn't fit, you must acquit." By the way, it is highly improbable for a virus to specialize for Humans but live in other creatures. Especially a creature that we do not co-habitat with. Also, like Johnie Cochran would say, "did you see any Pangolins in the Wuhan wet market and did you test him?" China released an inventory of the Wet Market offerings, there was no Pangolin. Maybe it's hard to inventory a sausage with 7 different varmints mixed in.

That said, non-China based scientists that routinely read and discuss Virology have documents (now deleted from Wuhan's published white papers) where a Virus that is 95% genetic match to COVID-19 was shown in 2012. The scientists are not hackers, they are the EliteDawgs of Virology. So they re-post, tag, and like documents from all over the world, related to Virology. It would be like posting a Tweet from John Cohen, even after Cohen deletes it, it will still exist with us. They have proof of COVID-19 without the Furim Cleavage Site, the pre-Engineered version basically.

My sisters (MSU grads) but with PhDs and MDs from schools in the Northeast are my source of information, I recommend anyone to explore this for themselves.

Thank you Sir for the excellent post.

[OLJWales]

https://i.postimg.cc/yYdBxySD/img-1-1634220970857.jpg

[Homedawg]

That position says you are all for sacrificing others so you can do what you want. That argument is absolutely disgusting. It's also totally un-American. It is the hallmark of ALL tyrants.

Yeah, just like last you when you wanted everyone to stay at home while you went to your "essential job". That's a tyrant if you ask me. But carry on.

[Coach34]

Yeah, just like last you when you wanted everyone to stay at home while you went to your "essential job". That's a tyrant if you ask me. But carry on.

We shut down the country but left Wal-Mart and the liquor stores open.

[Matt3467]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXg3v8zQj2U

I remember watching that. Funny but sad. Of course Stewart isn't a "scientist" but he's exposing the fallacies of how someone could really question the origin of a virus that came from a city that had a biosafety level 4 laboratory that primarily works with coronaviruses. It seems like it would be common sense to assume the virus came from that lab but you have a side of the aisle that champions they are the critical thinkers following the science and the only ones with rational thoughts while everyone else must be silenced, canceled, and treated like children. Politics aside how can a rational person not assume that's where covid originated?

[Dawgfan77]

That position says you are all for sacrificing others so you can do what you want. That argument is absolutely disgusting. It's also totally un-American. It is the hallmark of ALL tyrants.
You need help man. Seriously.

[BrunswickDawg]

Are you old enough to remember how they were over prescribed? I did my own research back then and refused to go long instead letting whatever ailed me to run its course without antibiotics. Haven't had a flu shot nor a covid shot. I'm 58 and recovered from covid about seven weeks or so ago. Extreme exhaustion is all that I suffered. For the first time since I can't remember for the first time I'm probably close to 20 years I did take medicine a five-day Supply on day 4 hours back on my feet. I think my reluctance to take antibiotics back in the day improve my immune system.

Then consider yourself lucky. I'm a decade younger than you, in decent shape, non-smoker, rarely have taken antibiotics, never gotten a flu shot, never had the flu, had 1 sinus infection in 20 years as my only illness.
A year ago this week I got what I thought was a sinus infection which turned out to be COVID. I hit my 10 day mark and thought it had cleared, when my O2 level crashed and I was admitted for COVID pneumonia. O2 level was 82, then dropped my first 24 hours in the hospital. Spent a week on oxygen and getting remdesivir treatments along with about a dozen other things. A year in and I'm still not back to pre-COVID capacity. No cardio capacity, sleep cycles out of whack, battle with exhaustion.
So just because it doesn't impact you doesn't mean others have the same experience.

And I got the vaccine as soon as I could so I can lessen my future risks.

[confucius say]

That too but it's better the other way around. What you had backwards is natural immunity being better than the vaccine. Most reputable studies show exactly the opposite. There have been a few that have been seized on by certain media outlets that show the other way, but the preponderance of the evidence so far says the vaccines do better.

Have you read the Israel study?

[OLJWales]

Then consider yourself lucky. I'm a decade younger than you, in decent shape, non-smoker, rarely have taken antibiotics, never gotten a flu shot, never had the flu, had 1 sinus infection in 20 years as my only illness.
A year ago this week I got what I thought was a sinus infection which turned out to be COVID. I hit my 10 day mark and thought it had cleared, when my O2 level crashed and I was admitted for COVID pneumonia. O2 level was 82, then dropped my first 24 hours in the hospital. Spent a week on oxygen and getting remdesivir treatments along with about a dozen other things. A year in and I'm still not back to pre-COVID capacity. No cardio capacity, sleep cycles out of whack, battle with exhaustion.
So just because it doesn't impact you doesn't mean others have the same experience.

And I got the vaccine as soon as I could so I can lessen my future risks.

Damn. I do consider myself lucky bruns. Fyi, I also have been pretty much a south beach diet for 25 years or so. 50 or so push ups or so daily. Glad you made it man.

[confucius say]

Actually you can't all of a sudden adopt a "sincere religious belief" to get around something you don't like. It has to be a previously held belief that you have evidence of. It also generally has to be consistent with a known religious sect and you must have had a previous and current association with that sect. You can't just make up your own religion to get out of something.

This is 100% false.

[confucius say]

I have been keeping up, but there is no evidence of that yet, except in nut job conspiracy crap. It may turn out to be true, but then again it may not. People just take things and run with them. The thing is, it really makes no difference now, the genie is out of the bottle. What do you want to do, nuke China?

No but could we stop bending over for them?

For starters, I would let them know we are subtracting from our debt whatever number an independent economist comes up with for damages caused to our country for this virus since it is undisputed it came from China. Whether purposefully or negligently, they unleashed this virus to the world and nobody seems pissed off enough to hold them accountable. It's mind blowing.

[confucius say]

We shut down the country but left Wal-Mart and the liquor stores open.

Makes perfect sense

[Commercecomet24]

We shut down the country but left Wal-Mart and the liquor stores open.

Things that make you go hmmmm.

[OLJWales]

Okay to buy lottery tickets daily and grocery stores but can't go vote? I reckon we all know why.

[Commercecomet24]

Okay to buy lottery tickets daily and grocery stores but can't go vote? I reckon we all know why.

That's a good one.

[dalmuti]

Trump would be doing the same vaccine mandate via OSHA rn. He would just go about it way more stupidly

The people with all the money recognize that they won't get as much more money until everyone gets the vaccine, so you're all going to have to get the vaccine. Simple as.

[confucius say]

There have been vaccine mandates for generations in order to attend public school. Why is everyone so pissed off over this one?

I think it is because of the internet and social media. There is misinformation ranging from bold faced lies to partial truths that has created a divide between groups.

If you have a stance, there is a place you can go to reinforce your beliefs on the internet. We aren't living in the information age but the misinformation age.

Among the major news sources the worst offenders are FOX, CNN and MSNBC. I find ABC & CBS are much less biased and I prefer BBC. I find BBC the least biased. I see them reporting US News from an outsiders view point which I find refreshing.

Oh well, this pandemic surely is coming to a close. We should be getting closer to that herd immunity thingy at some point. At least that's my story and I am sticking to it.

There has never been a vaccine mandate via executive fiat. They have been through the law making process, i e a legislature. The problem many people have with this is it is not a law but rather is issued by a president. Slippery slope.

[OLJWales]

Trump would be doing the same vaccine mandate via OSHA rn. He would just go about it way more stupidly

The people with all the money recognize that they won't get as much more money until everyone gets the vaccine, so you're all going to have to get the vaccine. Simple as.

100 percent bull shit. Not surprised coming from you. Kamala said before election she would NOT take shot if it were developed under Trump's admin. What dat bitch saying now?

[dalmuti]

The vaccine powers have already been baked into laws on the books. Same reasons the Texas anti mandate law doesn't have a legal leg to stand on

[Commercecomet24]

There has never been a vaccine mandate via executive fiat. They have been through the law making process, i e a legislature. The problem many people have with this is it is not a law but rather is issued by a president. Slippery slope.

Lot of things have bypassed legislature through executive order with this administration. As you said slippery slope.

[OLJWales]

The vaccine powers have already been baked into laws on the books. Same reasons the Texas anti mandate law doesn't have a legal leg to stand on

I'm in Fort worth, ain't no police coming by my place making me take a shot

[dalmuti]

I'm in Fort worth, ain't no police coming by my place making me take a shot

Dont worry, you will eventually do it willingly!

[confucius say]

The vaccine powers have already been baked into laws on the books. Same reasons the Texas anti mandate law doesn't have a legal leg to stand on

Can you cite one example of a vaccine mandate to private citizens issued solely by a President or executive agency that was challenged and upheld by scotus? No.

[dalmuti]

Those kinds of cases never make it to SCOTUS because they have no reason to ever take them up. Precedent and case law is very strong on this

[Liverpooldawg]

This is 100% false.

It has always been true up to now. I'm old enough to remember some of the cases on other vaccines.

[Liverpooldawg]

You been wrong since day one on this thing. It's you that's been wearing the tinfoil hat. It's ok to come out of the basement now

LOL, you are clueless as usual. I'm in a clinical healthcare field. I have never been in my basement. You wouldn't know right on this if it ran over you with an 18 wheeler.

[Liverpooldawg]

There has never been a vaccine mandate via executive fiat. They have been through the law making process, i e a legislature. The problem many people have with this is it is not a law but rather is issued by a president. Slippery slope.

The US military, and George Washington say hello.

[starkvegasdawg]

Go to @DefiantLs on twitter. It's full of lib hypocrisy on the vaccine. They were the ones that politicized the vaccine.

[MadDawg]

I have been keeping up, but there is no evidence of that yet, except in nut job conspiracy crap. It may turn out to be true, but then again it may not. People just take things and run with them. The thing is, it really makes no difference now, the genie is out of the bottle. What do you want to do, nuke China?

Man, I thought better of you. This one post makes anything else you say suspect.

[confucius say]

Those kinds of cases never make it to SCOTUS because they have no reason to ever take them up. Precedent and case law is very strong on this

No it's not brother. Please direct me to the authority. You can't give me one example of a vaccine mandate to private citizens issued solely by the president or an executive agency ever being upheld by scotus, any circuit court of appeal, or federal district court. Ever.

And lol at scotus not having reason to take up a vaccine mandate issued to private citizens solely through executive fiat.

[Quaoarsking]

100 percent bull shit. Not surprised coming from you. Kamala said before election she would NOT take shot if it were developed under Trump's admin. What dat bitch saying now?

Her actual comment was said during the VP debate and is extremely well documented on video and transcript. Why do you bother misrepresenting it when you are so easily contradicted?

“If public health professionals, if Dr. Fauci, if the doctors tell us that we should take it, I’ll be the first in line to take it, absolutely. But if Donald Trump tells us that we should take it, I’m not taking it.”

Is that a dumb statement by her? Yeah, kinda. But why it into something it's not?

[confucius say]

It has always been true up to now. I'm old enough to remember some of the cases on other vaccines.

There has never been a case on this issue. Ever.

[confucius say]

The US military, and George Washington say hello.

That wasn't a vaccine mandate to private citizens.
Nobody is challenging the authority to provide such a mandate to federal employees or the military. That already exists and is in place.

[Percho]

No, that's the point. Even when you see a story about how some huge corporation or hospital fired a few hundred employees, it turns out to be less than 1% of the workforce almost every time. The vaccine mandates work, regardless of how people feel about them theoretically.

Holding a gun to someone's head works also.

[DownwardDawg]

I was vaccinated by recommendation by MD Anderson before my treatments this year. I was on the fence before. I don't blame anyone for getting the vaccine or not getting the vaccine. I hope more people get it but no one should be forced to get it. The company I work for has mandated it starting January 1st. You can't come to one of our offshore platforms unless you have been vaccinated.

[confucius say]

Her actual comment was said during the VP debate and is extremely well documented on video and transcript. Why do you bother misrepresenting it when you are so easily contradicted?

?If public health professionals, if Dr. Fauci, if the doctors tell us that we should take it, I?ll be the first in line to take it, absolutely. But if Donald Trump tells us that we should take it, I?m not taking it.?

Is that a dumb statement by her? Yeah, kinda. But why it into something it's not?

So if my doctors tell me not to take it (both have bc I had one shot and covid), she is saying I should listen to both of them instead of the President? Good.

What she is advocating for in that statement is medical freedom based on advice from doctors as opposed to your medical treatment being mandated to you by a sitting President. What a glorious concept.

[dalmuti]

So if my doctors tell me not to take it (both have bc I had one shot and covid), she is saying I should listen to both of them instead of the President? Good.

What she is advocating for in that statement is medical freedom based on advice from doctors as opposed to your medical treatment being mandated to you by a sitting President. What a glorious concept.

you should just go out today and get the live-saving trump vaccine

[Quaoarsking]

So if my doctors tell me not to take it (both have bc I had one shot and covid), she is saying I should listen to both of them instead of the President? Good.

If you have multiple legitimate doctors telling you not to get the vaccine based on your personal situation (as in they're not just crazy nutjobs telling everyone not to get it), I have no problem with you not getting it.

[confucius say]

you should just go out today and get the live-saving trump vaccine

Ha. I had one of them brother.

And honestly I may get another one at some point. But that should be my decision, not Biden's or Trump's.

[confucius say]

If you have multiple legitimate doctors telling you not to get the vaccine based on your personal situation (as in they're not just crazy nutjobs telling everyone not to get it), I have no problem with you not getting it.

Exactly. That's logical. It isn't a one size fits all approach, and that is why an across the board vaccine mandate makes no sense.

[dalmuti]

"Americans can always be counted on to do the right thing…after they have exhausted all other possibilities" - Winston Churchill

[Dawgfan77]

LOL, you are clueless as usual. I'm in a clinical healthcare field. I have never been in my basement. You wouldn't know right on this if it ran over you with an 18 wheeler.
Just cause you mop the floors and take out the bio waste doesn't classify you as a "health care worker." Hell early on your post described the apocalypse with everyone you knew dropping like flies. Even last month when you were freaking out over delta. I told you then to relax that in a few weeks cases, hospitalization and deaths would start to drop. You laughed and scoffed at me. Guess I knew a little bit more than you then like I do now. Go over and read the OleMiss vaccine thread on bovine and see for yourself.
By the way you are needed for a clean up on the lab floor. Might need a mask...

[Liverpooldawg]

We the tyrants? Damn. Whose forcing who here? Are we pushing to make getting a shot illegal?

You want to force others to sacrifice their lives for your "freedom." That my friend is tyranny by definition.

[OLJWales]

Kind of strange when you look at all the investment portfolios of politicians these days bulking up on big Pharma. Big Pharma is making a big killing

[Quaoarsking]

Exactly. That's logical. It isn't a one size fits all approach, and that is why an across the board vaccine mandate makes no sense.

It's a one-size-fits-almost-all approach. Actual medical exemptions from vaccination exist but are rare. And Biden's EO gives 2 alternatives to people who exercise their freedom to refuse vaccination - work from.home (if applicable) or produce a negative test weekly.

[Gutter Cobreh]

https://i.postimg.cc/yYdBxySD/img-1-1634220970857.jpg


Then consider yourself lucky. I'm a decade younger than you, in decent shape, non-smoker, rarely have taken antibiotics, never gotten a flu shot, never had the flu, had 1 sinus infection in 20 years as my only illness.
A year ago this week I got what I thought was a sinus infection which turned out to be COVID. I hit my 10 day mark and thought it had cleared, when my O2 level crashed and I was admitted for COVID pneumonia. O2 level was 82, then dropped my first 24 hours in the hospital. Spent a week on oxygen and getting remdesivir treatments along with about a dozen other things. A year in and I'm still not back to pre-COVID capacity. No cardio capacity, sleep cycles out of whack, battle with exhaustion.
So just because it doesn't impact you doesn't mean others have the same experience.

And I got the vaccine as soon as I could so I can lessen my future risks.

Why are you bringing a real life example to this discussion Brunswick, when we know all pertinent information comes from memes????

I'm sure a lot of these posters will also raise hell when their insurance costs go up due to a COVID surcharge from being unvaccinated as enrollment for most is right around the corner. I'm glad you made it though, but the care provided to you in the hospital wasn't free. At the end of the day, we're all left to pay for the ignorant and lazy. The problem is that those that are ignorant blame the lazy and the lazy blame the ignorant.

[Liverpooldawg]

Man, I thought better of you. This one post makes anything else you say suspect.

How so? We have to deal with it now no matter how it originated. The Chinese are already our enemy. We need to already be weaning ourselves off their goods, but we just flat out can not do it cold turkey, nor is there the national will to even do it slowly. Unless you want to go to war over it there really isn't much we an do to hurt them, not quickly. If it turns out that they did it then that's certainly an option, If we DO go to war over it, vaccine mandates will be the least of our worries. AS IT STANDS, there is no convincing evidence either way. You don't want to start WWIII over that kind of evidence.

[Liverpooldawg]

Stewart's use of comedy to show idiotic it is for people to believe it wasnt from the lab makes its point very well.

Its a comedy show, great source. That says it all really.

[Liverpooldawg]

The Furim Cleavage Site (the pointy things coming off the ball) of the Virus does not even prefer the cells of any animal for "binding", more than humans. Human's are the top match.

https://images.theconversation.com/files/334824/original/file-20200513-156651-1b7wiyf.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=1000&fit=clip

The protein spikes on the virus were mapped to various animals. The number-1 most appropriate animal for the Virus is Humans. Bats can't get this Virus. The pangolin is #2.

No Pangolin has ever been found with this Virus. Like Johnnie Cochran said, "if it doesn't fit, you must acquit." By the way, it is highly improbable for a virus to specialize for Humans but live in other creatures. Especially a creature that we do not co-habitat with. Also, like Johnie Cochran would say, "did you see any Pangolins in the Wuhan wet market and did you test him?" China released an inventory of the Wet Market offerings, there was no Pangolin. Maybe it's hard to inventory a sausage with 7 different varmints mixed in.

That said, non-China based scientists that routinely read and discuss Virology have documents (now deleted from Wuhan's published white papers) where a Virus that is 95% genetic match to COVID-19 was shown in 2012. The scientists are not hackers, they are the EliteDawgs of Virology. So they re-post, tag, and like documents from all over the world, related to Virology. It would be like posting a Tweet from John Cohen, even after Cohen deletes it, it will still exist with us. They have proof of COVID-19 without the Furim Cleavage Site, the pre-Engineered version basically.

My sisters (MSU grads) but with PhDs and MDs from schools in the Northeast are my source of information, I recommend anyone to explore this for themselves.

Most if not all human pandemic viruses are best suited to humans. When they make the mutation that enables them to spread between humans that easily then they almost always are not as well suited to the original animal host. That is not some earth shaking secret revelation. You would expect it to be that way. Now that says nothing either way about it's origin. A genetically engineered one that can spread between humans would be exactly the same way.

[Liverpooldawg]

Yeah, just like last you when you wanted everyone to stay at home while you went to your "essential job". That's a tyrant if you ask me. But carry on.

Ok genius, next time we make all essential workers stay at home too. That would work out well don't you think?

[Gutter Cobreh]

Just cause you mop the floors and take out the bio waste doesn't classify you as a "health care worker." Hell early on your post described the apocalypse with everyone you knew dropping like flies. Even last month when you were freaking out over delta. I told you then to relax that in a few weeks cases, hospitalization and deaths would start to drop. You laughed and scoffed at me. Guess I knew a little bit more than you then like I do now. Go over and read the OleMiss vaccine thread on bovine and see for yourself.
By the way you are needed for a clean up on the lab floor. Might need a mask...

Why wouldn't it? Guarantee you those mopping the floor know the virus isn't transmitted through surfaces, yet the majority of scholars on this board and elsewhere keep buying disinfecting wipes like they're going out of style.

They may not be a clinician, but I guarantee you they're a healthcare worker!

[msstate7]

https://i.postimg.cc/QtvKZMbn/BE6-A6-B03-7-DAD-47-AC-AC1-E-0640-DF31-C052.jpg (https://postimg.cc/CBHxjS9j)

https://twitter.com/bhweingarten/status/1450478200140750852?s=21

[OLJWales]

Ok genius, next time we make all essential workers stay at home too. That would work out well don't you think?

How bout none of the above?

[William Tecumsah Sherman]

This is an honest question?.does the vaccine prevent or lessen the chance of spread of the Delta variant? Or is transmission the same but the vaccine just prevents sickness to the extreme of the individual?

[Percho]

The Furim Cleavage Site (the pointy things coming off the ball) of the Virus does not even prefer the cells of any animal for "binding", more than humans. Human's are the top match.

https://images.theconversation.com/files/334824/original/file-20200513-156651-1b7wiyf.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=1000&fit=clip

The protein spikes on the virus were mapped to various animals. The number-1 most appropriate animal for the Virus is Humans. Bats can't get this Virus. The pangolin is #2.

No Pangolin has ever been found with this Virus. Like Johnnie Cochran said, "if it doesn't fit, you must acquit." By the way, it is highly improbable for a virus to specialize for Humans but live in other creatures. Especially a creature that we do not co-habitat with. Also, like Johnie Cochran would say, "did you see any Pangolins in the Wuhan wet market and did you test him?" China released an inventory of the Wet Market offerings, there was no Pangolin. Maybe it's hard to inventory a sausage with 7 different varmints mixed in.

That said, non-China based scientists that routinely read and discuss Virology have documents (now deleted from Wuhan's published white papers) where a Virus that is 95% genetic match to COVID-19 was shown in 2012. The scientists are not hackers, they are the EliteDawgs of Virology. So they re-post, tag, and like documents from all over the world, related to Virology. It would be like posting a Tweet from John Cohen, even after Cohen deletes it, it will still exist with us. They have proof of COVID-19 without the Furim Cleavage Site, the pre-Engineered version basically.

My sisters (MSU grads) but with PhDs and MDs from schools in the Northeast are my source of information, I recommend anyone to explore this for themselves.

And to add to your post. 48 hours after the first case was announced in the US of A Moderna had a vaccine for Covid 19

[Commercecomet24]

https://i.postimg.cc/QtvKZMbn/BE6-A6-B03-7-DAD-47-AC-AC1-E-0640-DF31-C052.jpg (https://postimg.cc/CBHxjS9j)

https://twitter.com/bhweingarten/status/1450478200140750852?s=21

That's absolutely outrageous. SMH. That's the kind of crap that makes people distrust the vaccine or any efforts thereof. Nothing to see here.

[Quaoarsking]

https://i.postimg.cc/QtvKZMbn/BE6-A6-B03-7-DAD-47-AC-AC1-E-0640-DF31-C052.jpg (https://postimg.cc/CBHxjS9j)

https://twitter.com/bhweingarten/status/1450478200140750852?s=21

Who is that? A wannabe pundit that is so unemployable to he just posts on Substack and hopes someone takes him seriously?

Haven't you noticed how every single COVID conspiracy that floats around on social media turns out to be fake, and yet people just move on to the next one and get taken in again and again?

[Percho]

Okay to buy lottery tickets daily and grocery stores but can't go vote? I reckon we all know why.

Amen
Brother!

[msstate7]

Who is that? A wannabe pundit that is so unemployable to he just posts on Substack and hopes someone takes him seriously?

Haven't you noticed how every single COVID conspiracy that floats around on social media turns out to be fake, and yet people just move on to the next one and get taken in again and again?

https://www.osha.gov/coronavirus/faqs

Click on "Are adverse reactions to the..."

...
Is this not OSHA's site?

[Quaoarsking]

https://www.osha.gov/coronavirus/faqs

Click on "Are adverse reactions to the..."

...
Is this not OSHA's site?

And this is "outrageous" / unprecedented / unusual?

Sounds like some Twitter grifter is just riling people up who want to be riled up.

[Coach34]

https://www.osha.gov/coronavirus/faqs

Click on "Are adverse reactions to the..."

...
Is this not OSHA's site?

It's a Conspiracy!!!
Trust the Science!!!!

[confucius say]

It's a one-size-fits-almost-all approach. Actual medical exemptions from vaccination exist but are rare. And Biden's EO gives 2 alternatives to people who exercise their freedom to refuse vaccination - work from.home (if applicable) or produce a negative test weekly.

What EO? He hasn't issued any EO that I am aware, only laid out his plans for what he intends the OSHA ETS to say.

Regardless, my personal belief is that any such ETS (emergency temporary standard for those who don't know) will be enjoined.

[confucius say]

Why are you bringing a real life example to this discussion Brunswick, when we know all pertinent information comes from memes????

I'm sure a lot of these posters will also raise hell when their insurance costs go up due to a COVID surcharge from being unvaccinated as enrollment for most is right around the corner. I'm glad you made it though, but the care provided to you in the hospital wasn't free. At the end of the day, we're all left to pay for the ignorant and lazy. The problem is that those that are ignorant blame the lazy and the lazy blame the ignorant.

I hear ya. Let's start by penalizing all obese people and jacking up their insurance rates, as more tax money is spent on them yearly than other medical condition.

[msstate7]

I hear ya. Let's start by penalizing all obese people and jacking up their insurance rates, as more tax money is spent on them yearly than other medical condition.

If your wife is fat, you pay more for insurance.

[William Tecumsah Sherman]

Does the vaccine lessen your chance of passing it? Or does it just lessen the severity of it if you get symptoms? Honest question

[Liverpooldawg]

There has never been a case on this issue. Ever.

Yes, there has, several as a matter of fact.

[confucius say]

Does the vaccine lessen your chance of passing it? Or does it just lessen the severity of it if you get symptoms? Honest question

I think the latter for sure

The first one it depends on who you ask

[confucius say]

Yes, there has, several as a matter of fact.

Cite one. Just one where a President issued a vaccine mandate to private citizens via executive fiat or through an executive agency and it was upheld.

[confucius say]

If your wife is fat, you pay more for insurance.

Fortunately mine is a bombshell (not so humble brag), but some of y'all are going to be slapped when you tell her why the insurance went up 😂

[Liverpooldawg]

Does the vaccine lessen your chance of passing it? Or does it just lessen the severity of it if you get symptoms? Honest question

It lessens your chance of passing it because you are less likely to get it. The figures vary on that but the least I have seen is you are 6 1/2 times less likely to get if you have been vaccinated with any of our three. I saw an article where they had that broken down by type. Moderna was the best, followed by Pfizer, and then the J&J. It also lessens your symptoms so that helps too. It's even better at keeping you out of the hospital.
and the morgue. If we could get universal uptake this would revert to something resembling a bad seasonal flu overall. We function normally during that.

[Liverpooldawg]

I hear ya. Let's start by penalizing all obese people and jacking up their insurance rates, as more tax money is spent on them yearly than other medical condition.

We already do that. For smoking, drinking, and age also among other things.

[OLJWales]

How do we trust them while they fly and resettle illegal aliens by the thousands all over our country monthly with no tests or vac shots? Splain dat shit.

[Liverpooldawg]

How do we trust them while they fly and resettle illegal aliens by the thousands all over our country monthly with no tests or vac shots? Splain dat shit.

Agree with you there.

[Johnson85]

If your wife is fat, you pay more for insurance.

If your wife is fat, aren't you already paying?**

[dalmuti]

just wait until everyone's company starts hitting them with extra no-vaxx surcharges on their health insurance plans. principles can get expensive.

[Maverick91]

That's absolutely outrageous. SMH. That's the kind of crap that makes people distrust the vaccine or any efforts thereof. Nothing to see here.

That is what they want. who is "they" anyone in power that wants more power. Anything that they can do to make all of us at odds with one another is good for them, create the problem wait awhile for most people to be so mad at their neighbor and then come out with the solution I.E. more regulation or more government either or equals more power for them and less power for you in your life.

Things like this we have to be on the same page about, at the end of the day we live in a country that was created for really one goal and that was self governance. Anytime the government steps in and tells us what we can and cannot do is a overreach of our constitution. Call me crazy, I don't care, this will not end well for any of us if we keep fighting about it. The moment we stop arguing about this and understand that a high level of personal freedom comes with a high level of potential of getting hurt by someone that isn't masked or what not and accept it. The better off we will be, because then we can really pay attention to what the evil in this world is trying to do to us as individuals.

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Ben Franklin

[Liverpooldawg]

https://i.postimg.cc/QtvKZMbn/BE6-A6-B03-7-DAD-47-AC-AC1-E-0640-DF31-C052.jpg (https://postimg.cc/CBHxjS9j)

https://twitter.com/bhweingarten/status/1450478200140750852?s=21

oh good grief, why am I not surprised considering the poster.

[msstate7]

If your wife is fat, aren't you already paying?**

Yes

[Maverick91]

Does the vaccine lessen your chance of passing it? Or does it just lessen the severity of it if you get symptoms? Honest question

Find the answer, please let me know. I bet it doesn't doesn't do a thing about lessoning, if it did you bet the media would be pounding that into the sand as well.

[OLJWales]

oh good grief, why am I not surprised considering the poster.

So you are cool with employers not reporting side effects? Are side effects part of a right winged conspiracy?

[Maverick91]

How do we trust them while they fly and resettle illegal aliens by the thousands all over our country monthly with no tests or vac shots? Splain dat shit.

and give them a stipend via your tax dollars.

[Johnson85]

Actually you can't all of a sudden adopt a "sincere religious belief" to get around something you don't like. It has to be a previously held belief that you have evidence of. It also generally has to be consistent with a known religious sect and you must have had a previous and current association with that sect. You can't just make up your own religion to get out of something.

Holy shit. You'd think being wrong so often would cause you to at least google before you go wading off into something you clearly know nothing about. But I will give you the "often wrong, never in doubt" approach is very on brand for you. And in your defense, why shouldn't a career as a nurse practitioner teach you all you need to know about the law.

[Quaoarsking]

So you are cool with employers not reporting side effects? Are side effects part of a right winged conspiracy?

You realize there is already a federal vaccine side effects depository (not to mention the media, which salivates over such stories)? Do we need a second Department of Labor one, or can we unburden business by cutting that red tape? That grifter Tweeter is leaving out a lot in order to rile you up like you want to be.

[confucius say]

How do we trust them while they fly and resettle illegal aliens by the thousands all over our country monthly with no tests or vac shots? Splain dat shit.

That is another reason people distrust our govt on this issue. I'm not sure why we don't mandate vaccines for everyone at the border

[confucius say]

We already do that. For smoking, drinking, and age also among other things.

Not for obesity that I'm aware. Which costs more than the others.

[confucius say]

Holy shit. You'd think being wrong so often would cause you to at least google before you go wading off into something you clearly know nothing about. But I will give you the "often wrong, never in doubt" approach is very on brand for you. And in your defense, why shouldn't a career as a nurse practitioner teach you all you need to know about the law.

I've tried. He won't listen.

[confucius say]

You realize there is already a federal vaccine side effects depository (not to mention the media, which salivates over such stories)? Do we need a second Department of Labor one, or can we unburden business by cutting that red tape? That grifter Tweeter is leaving out a lot in order to rile you up like you want to be.

Burden businesses by requiring vaccine mandates and for the businesses to document it and to ensure it, but don't burden them by making them report side effects. Got it.

[Quaoarsking]

That is another reason people distrust our govt on this issue. I'm not sure why we don't mandate vaccines for everyone at the border

It is encouraged, but a mandate is a no-win scenario for the federal government. You'd have the "personal freedom" crowd spitting venom if it were required, as well as the "America First" crowd angry if we were giving American vaccines to foreigners.

Obviously I would still support such a rule, but I recognize that I'm not the one taking heat for the decisions.

[confucius say]

One other question. We do know a vaccine mandate (with exceptions) passed by a state legislature has stood up in court (Jacobson v Massachusetts), so why has no state legislature passed a law requiring the covid vaccine?

[Homedawg]

Ok genius, next time we make all essential workers stay at home too. That would work out well don't you think?

Wasnt my point. It's that everyone was supposed to stay home to protect you. You said it over and over. I'm not aint vax. But I'm always amused that the non vaccinated are the ones who are harming the vaccinated. First, if the vaccine works, it I think it does, then why are you worried? Second, it's been proven vaccinated people can pass it along to others. So why does it really matter? If the unvaccinated get it, and die, that's on them correct?? I'm sure I'll get an outstanding follow up from you.

[confucius say]

It is encouraged, but a mandate is a no-win scenario for the federal government. You'd have the "personal freedom" crowd spitting venom if it were required, as well as the "America First" crowd angry if we were giving American vaccines to foreigners.

Obviously I would still support such a rule, but I recognize that I'm not the one taking heat for the decisions.

Ok. Then why is it not just "encouraged" for private America citizens also? As opposed to this OSHA ETS that Biden is trying to have issues which would mandate it.

[confucius say]

How do we trust them while they fly and resettle illegal aliens by the thousands all over our country monthly with no tests or vac shots? Splain dat shit.

Also, why a mandated vaccine for employees of companies but not for those who are unemployed and receive govt entitlements?

[Homedawg]

If your wife is fat, you pay more for insurance.

If you drink, smoke, or watching msu athletics it should be higher too. The latter is bad for Bp and heart attacks!!

[Quaoarsking]

Burden businesses by requiring vaccine mandates and for the businesses to document it and to ensure it, but don't burden them by making them report side effects. Got it.

Have you ever dealt with the Department of Labor in your professional life? I have, and I've always found them to be inefficient and redundant. I don't know the specifics of the requirement being waved, but having a duplicate reporting requirement seems silly when there is already a procedure in place for that.

Also, the grifter is insinuating that the vaccine-or-test mandate will cause these surprise side effects and the waving of this redundant rule will cover it up so that no one ever hears about it. But when over 100,000,000 Americans and billions of people worldwide have already been vaccinated, it's safe to say there won't be any surprises. But in the extreme off chance there are, you can be sure we'll hear about it.

[Commercecomet24]

That is another reason people distrust our govt on this issue. I'm not sure why we don't mandate vaccines for everyone at the border

Lot of things aren't adding up about this whole thing.

[OLJWales]

Didn't DC Politicians get a waiver? Doctor, heal thyself. All kinds of gubment folk getting passes.

[Quaoarsking]

Also, why a mandated vaccine for employees of companies but not for those who are unemployed and receive govt entitlements?

Well I wouldn't mind that, but the justification for employers is to protect their coworkers. That's why negative tests and working from home are acceptable alternatives to vaccination.

That principle doesn't apply for unemployed people.

[OLJWales]

Well I wouldn't mind that, but the justification for employers is to protect their coworkers. That's why negative tests and working from home are acceptable alternatives to vaccination.

That principle doesn't apply for unemployed people.

You can get it from a coworker as easy as a football game or grocery store.

[vindastra]

Wasnt my point. It's that everyone was supposed to stay home to protect you. You said it over and over. I'm not aint vax. But I'm always amused that the non vaccinated are the ones who are harming the vaccinated. First, if the vaccine works, it I think it does, then why are you worried? Second, it's been proven vaccinated people can pass it along to others. So why does it really matter? If the unvaccinated get it, and die, that's on them correct?? I'm sure I'll get an outstanding follow up from you.

This one is simple. Can we all wait till the kids are vaccinated too?

Beyond that it can be free for all - vaccinated and unvaccinated. Should not matter anymore.

[BayouDawg]

Why? You had to take government mandated vaccines when you were a kid. Government vaccine mandates have been around, and legal, since vaccines have. George Washington even mandated small pox inoculation for the Continental Army. It helped us win our independence because the British didn't and their army here suffered terribly from it.

I have never had to show my vaccine card to be employable. Also this virus will be with us regardless of vaccine. So small pox and this virus is apples to oranges. I am not into collectivism. Collectivism is doing away with the private self for the greater good of the collective. Also known as Marxism. Under this ideology man is no more than a cog in the machine and thus expendable. A very dangerous road to go down.

ETA: plenty of children have been homeschooled and their parents did not have them vaccinated due to their personal beliefs. Many of them went on to college and filled out the waiver for being unvaccinated. So there has always been exceptions for personal choice.
Also how does taking away someones income improve public health? Firing people for being unvaxxed is counterintuitive. But then again government is usually counterintuitive.

[Quaoarsking]

You can get it from a coworker as easy as a football game or grocery store.

Do you spend more hours at work, at the grocery store, or at football games?

[Commercecomet24]

Didn't DC Politicians get a waiver? Doctor, heal thyself. All kinds of gubment folk getting passes.

Biden by law doesn't have the authority to mandate congress and their staff be vaccinated. Crazy as it sounds, it's the law.

[Maverick91]

Do you spend more hours at work, at the grocery store, or at football games?

It doesn't matter, I think only only need to be breathing the air for a small amount of time before you can catch it. Whether you are in the store, game, or work its all the same.

[vindastra]

It doesn't matter, I think only only need to be breathing the air for a small amount of time before you can catch it. Whether you are in the store, game, or work its all the same.

Someone apparently flunked the Statistics class :D

[HancockCountyDog]

Supreme court just refused to take up Maine mandate case. So if the Court as situated won't declare this mandate unconstitutional, then I think we can all realize that these mandates aren't going away. Its the most conservative court we have had in 60 years, and if they don't think Maine's law is unconstitutional, I think all the legal scholars can take a minute.

[confucius say]

Have you ever dealt with the Department of Labor in your professional life? I have, and I've always found them to be inefficient and redundant. I don't know the specifics of the requirement being waved, but having a duplicate reporting requirement seems silly when there is already a procedure in place for that.

Also, the grifter is insinuating that the vaccine-or-test mandate will cause these surprise side effects and the waving of this redundant rule will cover it up so that no one ever hears about it. But when over 100,000,000 Americans and billions of people worldwide have already been vaccinated, it's safe to say there won't be any surprises. But in the extreme off chance there are, you can be sure we'll hear about it.

Do employers already have to report side effects?

[confucius say]

Well I wouldn't mind that, but the justification for employers is to protect their coworkers. That's why negative tests and working from home are acceptable alternatives to vaccination.

That principle doesn't apply for unemployed people.

Then shouldn't it only apply to employees who are physically around other employees?

[starkvegasdawg]

And this is "outrageous" / unprecedented / unusual?

Sounds like some Twitter grifter is just riling people up who want to be riled up.

Considering there is a law on the books requiring side effects of work place vaccines be reported but they're waving it just for Covid is pretty much the definition of outrageous, unprecedented, and unusual. First ballot hall of fame.

[confucius say]

Do you spend more hours at work, at the grocery store, or at football games?

The question should be do you spend more time around (within 6 feet of) people at work, football games, or the grocery store?

[OLJWales]

Do you spend more hours at work, at the grocery store, or at football games?

If it is as serious as having mandates and job threats then cancel football and quit flying unchecked illegal aliens all over the country. Hypocrisy galore.

[OLJWales]

Considering there is a law on the books requiring side effects of work place vaccines be reported but they're waving it just for Covid is pretty much the definition of outrageous, unprecedented, and unusual. First ballot hall of fame.

Thank you for clarification. So typical protocol is to report but an except was made for covid?

What an EXCEPTional disease indeed! Lots of exceptions going on here.

[confucius say]

Supreme court just refused to take up Maine mandate case. So if the Court as situated won't declare this mandate unconstitutional, then I think we can all realize that these mandates aren't going away. Its the most conservative court we have had in 60 years, and if they don't think Maine's law is unconstitutional, I think all the legal scholars can take a minute.

That was a mandate made at the state level for healthcare workers only. While their is some disagreement whether the governor or legislature should enact the mandate, mandates at the state level have long been upheld. Especially when it is for a specific sect of people like healthcare workers. That is how it should be: states should be laboratories where policies should be tried and sorted out. That is the way our republic was built and has always been. For example, in NY last week a federal judge ruled the exact opposite as the Maine federal judge.

[dalmuti]

That was a mandate made at the state level for healthcare workers only. While their is some disagreement whether the governor or legislature should enact the mandate, mandates at the state level have long been upheld. Especially when it is for a specific sect of people like healthcare workers. That is how it should be: states should be laboratories where policies should be tried and sorted out. That is the way our republic was built and has always been. For example, in NY a federal judge ruled the exact opposite as the Maine federal judge.

the salient point is that the executive order was printed on gold-fringed parchment so it will hold up in an admiralty court. checkmate

[Maverick91]

Someone apparently flunked the Statistics class :D

What does statistics have to do with length and proximity to someone who is infected with a virous to catch it?

[OLJWales]

the salient point is that the executive order was printed on gold-fringed parchment so it will hold up in an admiralty court. checkmate

If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.

Samuel Adams
Tags: liberty, tyranny

[msstate7]

If you drink, smoke, or watching msu athletics it should be higher too. The latter is bad for Bp and heart attacks!!

The state part for sure lol

[vindastra]

What does statistics have to do with length and proximity to someone who is infected with a virous to catch it?

Probability

[Gutter Cobreh]

I hear ya. Let's start by penalizing all obese people and jacking up their insurance rates, as more tax money is spent on them yearly than other medical condition.

I would be in favor of that!!! You already have it for those using tobacco.

This whole thread is about (essentially) individual choice, so I'm sure all the anti-vaxers wouldn't oppose either. I'm sure they're already growing their own food because everything is from fast food joints is pumped and processed with added chemicals that no one on this board can pronounce.

[chef dixon]

This one is simple. Can we all wait till the kids are vaccinated too?

Beyond that it can be free for all - vaccinated and unvaccinated. Should not matter anymore.

Exactly. Stressing the healthcare system during spikes and the safety to children not eligible for the vaccine. Those are the reasons why it's not as simple as stated above. People don't realize their medical care for other issues gets weakened by the pandemic in a lot of different ways.

[Maverick91]

That was a mandate made at the state level for healthcare workers only. While their is some disagreement whether the governor or legislature should enact the mandate, mandates at the state level have long been upheld. Especially when it is for a specific sect of people like healthcare workers. That is how it should be: states should be laboratories where policies should be tried and sorted out. That is the way our republic was built and has always been. For example, in NY last week a federal judge ruled the exact opposite as the Maine federal judge.

States rights, son! Preach!

[Maverick91]

Probability

What we are talking about are two different things.

[confucius say]

I would be in favor of that!!! You already have it for those using tobacco.

This whole thread is about (essentially) individual choice, so I'm sure all the anti-vaxers wouldn't oppose either. I'm sure they're already growing their own food because everything is from fast food joints is pumped and processed with added chemicals that no one on this board can pronounce.

I agree with that. All the processed foods are horrible for us. I'm certainly not anti vax though. More of a you do you person.

[OLJWales]

That was a mandate made at the state level for healthcare workers only. While their is some disagreement whether the governor or legislature should enact the mandate, mandates at the state level have long been upheld. Especially when it is for a specific sect of people like healthcare workers. That is how it should be: states should be laboratories where policies should be tried and sorted out. That is the way our republic was built and has always been. For example, in NY last week a federal judge ruled the exact opposite as the Maine federal judge.

Excellent post. Individual states being laboratories of invention is a hallmark of our strength and success. What works in Maine may not in Mississippi. One size fits all dictated by a central authority has been the downfall of many countries.

[Gutter Cobreh]

I agree with that. All the processed foods are horrible for us. I'm certainly not anti vax though. More of a you do you person.

Apologies; wasn't trying to imply you were on one side or the other.

[confucius say]

Apologies; wasn't trying to imply you were on one side or the other.

All good brother. I love all you guys even when their is disagreement.

[OLJWales]

I agree with that. All the processed foods are horrible for us. I'm certainly not anti vax though. More of a you do you person.

The garbage we consume these days is incredible. I load up in the produce department and if I buy something packaged, I go immediately to the ingredients label. Most times seeing a huge paragraph then put it back while SMH.

[BeardoMSU]

I agree with that. All the processed foods are horrible for us. I'm certainly not anti vax though. More of a you do you person.

What if I want to stay up late, watch junk, and eat rubbish?**

https://c.tenor.com/t8koNr9LBCsAAAAC/home-alone-macaulay-culkin.gif

[The Federalist Engineer]

The garbage we consume these days is incredible. I load up in the produce department and if I buy something packaged, I go immediately to the ingredients label. Most times seeing a huge paragraph then put it back while SMH.

Dr Wales ... actually Epigenetic science agrees with you relative the possibilities of messing with personal biochemistry with food selection. Even to the extent of gene expression in offspring.

Why studying genetically identical lab mice, it was confirmed that obesity and color changes could be triggered with diet supplements fed to the parents. Gene Methylation.

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Andrew-Durham-3/publication/270553113/figure/fig3/AS:667717342330888@1536207628945/Genetically-identical-agouti-mice-Agouti-mice-which-are-genetically-identical-show.png

We need a baseball thread

[Commercecomet24]

Dr Wales ... actually Epigenetic science agrees with you relative the possibilities of messing with personal biochemistry with food selection. Even to the extent of gene expression in offspring.

Why studying genetically identical lab mice, it was confirmed that obesity and color changes could be triggered with diet supplements fed to the parents. Gene Methylation.

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Andrew-Durham-3/publication/270553113/figure/fig3/AS:667717342330888@1536207628945/Genetically-identical-agouti-mice-Agouti-mice-which-are-genetically-identical-show.png

We need a baseball thread

I second the baseball thread

[Gutter Cobreh]

I second the baseball thread

Not a thread, but pretty cool to see Graveman vs Renfroe heads up against each other tonight in the ALCS!!

[Commercecomet24]

Not a thread, but pretty cool to see Graveman vs Renfroe heads up against each other tonight in the ALCS!!

Yes it was I enjoyed watching them go at it!

[Liverpooldawg]

I'm not going to bother to read through this whole thing since I left it yesterday. I will leave yall with this: The vaccinated majority is getting really tired of the excuses from the unvaccinated. They are running out of patience. They know we could get back to as normal as we will ever be if we had universal uptake of the vaccine. There is GROWING anger over it. One of the most interesting things I have seen lately on this particular subject was a poll. It showed that the group MOST angry with the unvaccinated is vaccinated Republicans. Unlike the pollsters I don't find that surprising in the least. We as as a group tend not to be very vocal in public about it, but the anger is seething.

[Dawgfan77]

I'm not going to bother to read through this whole thing since I left it yesterday. I will leave yall with this: The vaccinated majority is getting really tired of the excuses from the unvaccinated. They are running out of patience. They know we could get back to as normal as we will ever be if we had universal uptake of the vaccine. There is GROWING anger over it. One of the most interesting things I have seen lately on this particular subject was a poll. It showed that the group MOST angry with the unvaccinated is vaccinated Republicans. Unlike the pollsters I don't find that surprising in the least. We as as a group tend not to be very vocal in public about it, but the anger is seething.

Advice: Seek help... go live your life... stop being so scared.

[Quaoarsking]

Advice: Seek help... go live your life... stop being so scared.

"Stop being so scared of a vaccine billions have taken without incident," is excellent advice that many Americans should take to heart.

[Maverick91]

I'm not going to bother to read through this whole thing since I left it yesterday. I will leave yall with this: The vaccinated majority is getting really tired of the excuses from the unvaccinated. They are running out of patience. They know we could get back to as normal as we will ever be if we had universal uptake of the vaccine. There is GROWING anger over it. One of the most interesting things I have seen lately on this particular subject was a poll. It showed that the group MOST angry with the unvaccinated is vaccinated Republicans. Unlike the pollsters I don't find that surprising in the least. We as as a group tend not to be very vocal in public about it, but the anger is seething.

I'm not going to bother to read through this whole thing since I left it yesterday. I will leave you with this: For those pulling the strings, its not about getting everyone vaccinated. It is about compliance, they want all of us to be compliant to their will, and if we don't then their second best option is taking place getting everyone mad at everyone else so that they can step in and "fix" the issue with some form of more government. If you don't believe me just look what has happened around the country and world.

I saw a video from Australia yesterday it was a dude walking around with a cup of coffee. The cops patrolling the park asked him if they could check his coffee cup to make sure there was something in the cup to justify him having his mask down. This happened in a park, a wide open park. If you don't think that is where our leaders want to take us, you are very mistaken in your thought process.

What needs to happen is for them to open everything back up, it is pretty much that way in the south anyways, I live in Mobile, some people wear masks, some people don't, live your life. We still live in a representative government, they will cower to the will of their constitutes eventually if we just live our lives in a peaceful manor.

[MadDawg]

I'm not going to bother to read through this whole thing since I left it yesterday. I will leave yall with this: The vaccinated majority is getting really tired of the excuses from the unvaccinated. They are running out of patience. They know we could get back to as normal as we will ever be if we had universal uptake of the vaccine. There is GROWING anger over it. One of the most interesting things I have seen lately on this particular subject was a poll. It showed that the group MOST angry with the unvaccinated is vaccinated Republicans. Unlike the pollsters I don't find that surprising in the least. We as as a group tend not to be very vocal in public about it, but the anger is seething.

Seething anger? LMAO 17 you

[Liverpooldawg]

"Stop being so scared of a vaccine billions have taken without incident," is excellent advice that many Americans should take to heart.

Agree

[Liverpooldawg]

Advice: Seek help... go live your life... stop being so scared.

LOL, if you only knew.

[Liverpooldawg]

Seething anger? LMAO 17 you

Listen outside your circle more, and your media. It's absolutely there.