WOW, Mizzou's football team quits

[ShotgunDawg]

http://footballscoop.com/news/missouris-black-players-vow-not-to-practice-or-play-again-until-the-university-president-resigns/

I realize we beat them up pretty good, but I didn't think we made their ass quit*

[msstate7]

That won't help our combined sec east opp's record

[Jack Lambert]

Take the opertunity to clean house. They suck anyways. If they were good they might have some juice but they don't. Let their asses quit.

[Bully13]

**** MO...

[ShotgunDawg]

Take the opertunity to clean house. They suck anyways. If they were good they might have some juice but they don't. Let their asses quit.

I agree. I don't see this ending well for these players. I think there's about to be some schollies pulled.

[Quaoarsking]

According to Deadspin, coaches are in full support of the strike.

[JohnnyQuid]

Made their ass quit**

[Jack Lambert]

According to Deadspin, coaches are in full support of the strike.

Well if my team sucked as bad as they do and I was the coach I would be looking for a excuse myself.

[BeardoMSU]

I'm admittedly a little buzzed right now, but what exactly does their statement refer to? Has their prez done/said something of note recently to warrant such a statement?

[DownwardDawg]

Wtf? Students of color??

[Blackout]

They shouldn't have been added to this conference.. The east already had Vandy

We exposed the bitches of the league

[Leroy Jenkins]

Easy to go on strike when your season is down the drain.

[mstatefan91]

Noone seems to be able to confirm what actually started all of this. All I'm getting is that the President refused to acknowledge that racism exists on Missouri's campus.

[Quaoarsking]

I'm admittedly a little buzzed right now, but what exactly does their statement refer to? Has their prez done/said something of note recently to warrant such a statement?

http://www.si.com/college-football/2015/11/07/missouri-football-tim-wolfe-president-strike-boycott-resignation

[AlmostPositive]

will be interesting to see how this plays out. College administrators are notoriously gutless these days.

[ShotgunDawg]

Look, I'm all for equality & racial issues being non-existent, but Mizzou may be a little to liberal for this conference.

[DownwardDawg]

Can we vote then back out?

[AlmostPositive]

Liberals seem all too willing to decide issues based on race rather than principle. I think they have gotten pretty far from where they started, and where they claimed to want to go ("colorblind" society, etc.).

[Bucky Dog]

The school is 77% white and 7% black?! Wow. Now it makes sense.

[msstate7]

Missouri doing this could really cost the schools playing mizzou money. Could sec commissions potentially throw Missouri out of the sec for this?

[SDDawg]

These kids are trying to do the right thing, has nothing to do with their tough season. Mizzou has huge problems with racism on campus and the administration needs to act.

[AlmostPositive]

One thing is for sure: you should lose your scholarship if you refuse to take the field because of some ideological stance you have or imagine you have.

[thunderclap]

Missouri doing this could really cost the schools playing mizzou money. Could sec commissions potentially throw Missouri out of the sec for this?

I wish.

[Quaoarsking]

One thing is for sure: you should lose your scholarship if you refuse to take the field because of some ideological stance you have or imagine you have.

Even when the people with the authority to pull the scholarships support the strike? Should the university president step in and pull the scholarships himself? Would that not be a big conflict of interest?

[AlmostPositive]

What are the huge problems?

[SDDawg]

Liberals seem all too willing to decide issues based on race rather than principle. I think they have gotten pretty far from where they started, and where they claimed to want to go ("colorblind" society, etc.).

I think the minority students have some valid concerns.

http://www.columbiamissourian.com/news/higher_education/msa-president-speaks-out-about-racist-incident/article_ac4ebc2c-5b3e-11e5-b4bd-af55f13bae45.html

[BulldogBear]

They shouldn't have been added to this conference.. The east already had Vandy

We exposed the bitches of the league

I'm still up here. This is not sec country nor are these folks, nice as they are, an SEC fan base. I just spent three hours in a big jumpin' BBQ place with two bars and about ten big screens. Not one was on an SEC game or any college football for that matter. Had to ask to get one changed to Bama vs. LSU.

[dawgoneyall]

BS.

[Quaoarsking]

I hope our players do this over state flag flying on campus. That would get it taken down in minutes.

[Rick Danko]

**** sakes, every day someone bitching cause they don't get their way. If they don't wanna play, let em sit one out.

[SDDawg]

Pinkel is revered at Mizzou. If he is supporting this, even if quietly, the President is gone. Mark it down.

[AlmostPositive]

I think the minority students have some valid concerns.

http://www.columbiamissourian.com/news/higher_education/msa-president-speaks-out-about-racist-incident/article_ac4ebc2c-5b3e-11e5-b4bd-af55f13bae45.html

Sounds to me like some jerks in a pickup truck. There are dolts and boors everywhere, in all colors. I have experienced multiple events ten times the intensity of that and brushed them off.

[BulldogBear]

What is a "marginalized" student? And what is thwir expreoence? So, what is it they want?

[Quaoarsking]

Apparently the university administration (outside of the president, I'd assume) isn't too upset with the players either. Won't be any schollies pulled:

"The department of athletics is aware of the declarations made tonight by many of our student-athletes. We all must come together with leaders from across our campus to tackle these challenging issues and we support our student-athletes right to do so."

If the coaches and university administration aren't upset with the players, there's no reason posters on a Mississippi State message board should be. Kudos to them for exercising their First Amendment rights.

[Blackout]

I hope our players do this over state flag flying on campus. That would get it taken down in minutes.

I hope our players beat Alabama

[Blackout]

Missouri players are upset that Dak and our defense didn't create a "safe space" for their feelings to be expressed

[SDDawg]

Sounds to me like some jerks in a pickup truck. There are dolts and boors everywhere, in all colors. I have experinced multiple events ten times the intensity of that and brushed them off.

Could be, but I think there are a number of incidents that have been reported with inadequate response. You also have to remember that this is only 100 miles from Ferguson with a lot of kids from the St. Louis area at the school. Racial tensions are high in Missouri in general, that's my experiencing having lived there for 15 years.

[Irondawg]

So what exactly did the school President do to incur the wrath?

[Blackout]

So what exactly did the school President do to incur the wrath?

Wrong place wrong talent level on the football team

[mstatefan91]

So what exactly did the school President do to incur the wrath?

He has done nothing to acknowledge or deal with racial tensions or racism on the campus and against minority students. That's how it reads to me

[dawgoneyall]

So you want our players to go on strike!

17 off.

[PendingTransaction]

I hope our players do this over state flag flying on campus. That would get it taken down in minutes.

This board would insist that their scholarships be pulled immediately and be forced to wear the scarlet "L." We are not UNM. This is OUR STATE flag.

[DownwardDawg]

I want our football team to worry about football. Don't become pussies like Missouri.

[Irondawg]

He has done nothing to acknowledge or deal with racial tensions or racism on the campus and against minority students. That's how it reads to me

Well honestly nothing I've read to this point makes me think he should have as to this point the only things I've read point to isolated incidents that probably occur multiple times on every large campus in the US. Not saying any of it is every right or condoning it but the school president can't issue statements or take public stances for every bad 1:1 encounter that occurs.

Now that said there could certainly be larger issues at play that I'm unaware of

[Todd4State]

Look, I'm all for equality & racial issues being non-existent, but Mizzou may be a little to liberal for this conference.

Missouri is actually a very conservative state at least in terms of values.

[gtowndawg]

On the way back to the car we noticed some weird tent city on campus. We asked a student what was going on and it was over this stuff.

And no, Missouri has no business in the SEC. Anywhere the teamsters are picketing every entrance to the stadium is not SEC country.

[War Machine Dawg]

I think the minority students have some valid concerns.

http://www.columbiamissourian.com/news/higher_education/msa-president-speaks-out-about-racist-incident/article_ac4ebc2c-5b3e-11e5-b4bd-af55f13bae45.html

Sounds like some serious butthurt to me. Someone yelled a slur? It sucks, but holy shit. Shrug it off and move on. Whiny bitches, so far as I'm concerned.

[Todd4State]

On the way back to the car we noticed some weird tent city on campus. We asked a student what was going on and it was over this stuff.

And no, Missouri has no business in the SEC. Anywhere the teamsters are picketing every entrance to the stadium is not SEC country.

You mean the hunger strike with the coolers full of food?

Yeah- I saw that too.

[Charlie_Sheen420]

They should have gone to the Big 10, they were only brought over with A&M due to the St. Louis market...they are Big 10 all over. I would like to kick their ass out, hell I wouldn't mind kicking A&M's ass out either with their weird "traditions", plus we were the original maroon team in the SEC....

[SDDawg]

To the folks saying kick Mizzou out: they won the East two years in a row and gave Auburn a run for their money a couple of years ago before they lost the title game to FSU. Mizzou is a good program and Pinkel is a really good coach. Mizzou is solid in the SEC as far as I'm concerned and having them and A&M in the conference has been good for the league. Opinions vary I guess.

This thread should probably be moved to the Political board, even though I don't have access. Especially for the ridiculous comments about the state flag.

[Todd4State]

They should have gone to the Big 10, they were only brought over with A&M due to the St. Louis market...they are Big 10 all over. I would like to kick their ass out, hell I wouldn't mind kicking A&M's ass out either with their weird "traditions", plus we were the original maroon team in the SEC....

Mizzou wanted to go to the Big 10 but the Big 10 didn't want them. I'm not exactly sure why- in addition to the St. Louis market as you mentioned, they would have gotten a lot of the Kansas City market plus the entire rest of Missouri.

I didn't want A&M either- but I was in the minority I think. I preferred keeping the SEC at 12 but it is what it is.

[DownwardDawg]

Like JWS said, they brought Nothing to the SEC B

[Todd4State]

To the folks saying kick Mizzou out: they won the East two years in a row and gave Auburn a run for their money a couple of years ago before they lost the title game to FSU. Mizzou is a good program and Pinkel is a really good coach. Mizzou is solid in the SEC as far as I'm concerned and having them and A&M in the conference has been good for the league. Opinions vary I guess.

This thread should probably be moved to the Political board, even though I don't have access. Especially for the ridiculous comments about the state flag.

I think they can compete in the SEC, but it's going to take them awhile to get up to speed in terms of facilities and things of that nature. South Carolina and Arkansas also took a few years to adjust as well- and both of those teams had some success early on as well in spot when they first joined the SEC.

[Todd4State]

Like JWS said, they brought Nothing to the SEC B

Who? A&M or Mizzou? Mizzou improved the SEC in basketball and their baseball program is not too bad historically. Mizzou is also one of the largest colleges in the country in terms of enrollment every year- which means that they have a ton of alumni.

[dawgoneyall]

1st amendment?

Forcing the resignation of someone.

I might have to read the 1st again.

[dawgoneyall]

You made it political.

And you are ridiculous.

[DownwardDawg]

Who? A&M or Mizzou? Mizzou improved the SEC in basketball and their baseball program is not too bad historically. Mizzou is also one of the largest colleges in the country in terms of enrollment every year- which means that they have a ton of alumni.

They still brought nothing to the SEC we don't already have. They are a square peg in a round hole.

[War Machine Dawg]

We just need to go ahead, bite the bullet, and force the expansion to 16. Mizzou isn't going anywhere. Let's just add UNC & UVA and be done. Let the bitchfest commence from the usual "we don't want them/only need 12" crowd.

Anf for the record, were it not for the expansions that created the new TV deal & SEC Network, we'd still be one of the Little Sisters of the Poor of college football. The expansion helped us maybe more than anyone in the conference.

[BeardoMSU]

There's been some regrettable shit said in this thread....wow.

[mstatefan91]

There's been some regrettable shit said in this thread....wow.

Are you really surprised?

[AlmostPositive]

If you consider opinions different from your own "regrettable shit" you should avoid message boards.

[Quaoarsking]

Apparently there is another big controversy at Mizzou because there is an on-campus abortion clinic. The president will not consider closing it down or moving it to another location, so there is another big group (maybe a little overlap, but probably not much) calling for his resignation.

I wonder how different the reactions here would be if Mizzou players were going on strike because of abortion rather than racial inequality?

[PassInterference]

Mizzou was a strange addition to the SEC. Their culture just isn't a fit in the SEC. They aren't southern. And they damn sure aren't in the East.

A&M isn't southern either, but there's a part of being a Texan the that a lot in common with the south. Plus their culture, their religous-like passion for sports, their academics, and the way they support their own program makes them a great fit for the SEC.

I still think we should have left Mizzou at the alter and instead gone after a North Carolina or Clemson. Probably Clemson. Then we'd have another pair of rivals in the conference.

So what if Clemson is in the same state with South Carolina. Geographic footprint expansion is overrated. Clemson is a big brand that would have brought more to the SEC than Mizzou.

Or maybe it was ESPN that insisted on geographic expansion.

Or maybe Georgia didn't want a 3rd SEC school in its immediate footprint. (Clemson is between and north of UGA and SC).

OK, whatever. North Carolina would have been a lot more natural addition than Mizzou.

[Blackout]

Agreed UNC was the choice over Mizzou.

[BiscuitEater]

I think the minority students have some valid concerns.

To gather and demand to talk and be heard; demanding that the President be fired over what has been published so far is NOT the way to get the message out. They come across as 'spoiled brats.'

[Churchill]

I hope our players do this over state flag flying on campus. That would get it taken down in minutes.

If I ran this board this would have been your last post. EVER

[Quaoarsking]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CTTu-i4XAAA4d0S.png

Looks like every player and coach, regardless of race, is in on the strike.

[Mutt the Hoople]

You have Hill Country Missouri rednecks who make the worst Bammer or West Virginia fan look like an Ivy Leaguer. Up there, they have the worst of both worlds...Minnesota cold in the winter, Mississippi heat in the summer, descendants of old confederate raiders who went into Kansas and murdered anti-slavery men, women, and children.

[thunderclap]

If they are 8-0 right now do they do this?

[Blackout]

Looks like every player and coach, regardless of race, is in on the strike.

Uh yeah would you expect any less. Pinkel doesn't join and he's the next to lose his job. Mob tactics.

[Irondawg]

So tell me this has anybody seen anything that makes you think the President should lose his job or resign? I'm at quite the loss for what is going on down there.

[Blackout]

So tell me this has anybody seen anything that makes you think the President should lose his job or resign? I'm at quite the loss for what is going on down there.

The fight for national sanity starts in Columbia MO

[gravedigger]

There was only one person in the hunger strike.

Those of us not there to live the situation need to withold judgement of it.

[SDDawg]

I applaud Pinkel for standing up for his players. He is nowhere near losing his job, he has taken Mizzou to a level of success that MSU would love to have. Sure, he lost his starting QB due to a drug problem during a year they were doing some rebuilding, but they'll be competitive again soon. I think he's standing on principle here with his players.

BTW, Missouri House Republicans are also calling for the President to resign. This isn't a "liberal/conservative" issue. http://www.kansascity.com/news/local/news-columns-blogs/the-buzz/article43682574.html

[Blackout]

There was only one person in the hunger strike.

Those of us not there to live the situation need to withold judgement of it.

I disagree. We all judge many things every day. I judge him as a damn fool

[gravedigger]

I disagree. We all judge many things every day. I judge him as a damn fool

My bad. I thought the rest of the thought was understood.

My suggestion was to withold judgement until we understood the situation in its entirety.

You are free to judge all you like when you like. Just know that when you express this, its no secret how little you know.

[dawg27]

Look, I'm all for equality & racial issues being non-existent, but Mizzou may be a little to liberal for this conference.

Sounds like they are way to liberal.

[AlmostPositive]

If you like mob rule, you should be fully behind the Missouri player boycott.

[SDDawg]

If you like mob rule, you should be fully behind the Missouri player boycott.

Agreed, how dare adults in the United States express their opinions and exercise their right to organize, protest peacefully, etc. **

[AlmostPositive]

Agreed, how dare adults in the United States express their opinions and exercise their right to organize, protest peacefully, etc. **

How would you feel about white Ole Miss players boycotting until the UM Chancellor is fired for taking down the state flag?

[smootness]

How would you feel about white Ole Miss players boycotting until the UM Chancellor is fired for taking down the state flag?

Uh...that wouldn't work.

This will only be effective if the majority are on the players' side. In that case, pressure will continue to build against the president. If the majority are not on their side, pressure will build against the players.

This isn't mob rule, LOL. People have the freedoms to make decisions for themselves.

[BeardoMSU]

How would you feel about white Ole Miss players boycotting until the UM Chancellor is fired for taking down the state flag?

Only the white players, lol? That would send a very distinct message. That is not what we have going on in Missouri.

[smootness]

Just to be clear, if some white Ole Miss players tried a boycott because of the flag being taken down, they would be run off with the quickness. And they would be blasted publicly by media outlets all over the country.

But yeah, apparently if a few players decide to 'demand' the resignation of the chancellor, regardless of the validity of their stand or how many people side with them, the chancellor must comply. Lulz.

[PendingTransaction]

There are so many really nasty comments about this situation across the internet. The HailState FB group has some of the worst that I've seen. As a Bulldog, reading them makes me sad for humanity. I would hate to know that our football team and recruits are reading this stuff. The guy who sits next to me at DWS made a comment that I can't believe. It's absolutely amazing that a situation that doesn't have a thing to do with MSU, can bring out such poisonous rhetoric from our fans. Hopefully, my eyes have failed me and those comments were made by Rebels, not Bulldogs.

[SDDawg]

How would you feel about white Ole Miss players boycotting until the UM Chancellor is fired for taking down the state flag?

I am not sure, but this isn't just white players at Mzzou. It's the entire team and coaching staff. There is significant support in the faculty as well. It's uncomfortable for sure, and I have some sympathy for the President, but he has let this situation fester and has failed to instill confidence in the University community. I admire people willing to take this kind of stand for their beliefs.

[SDDawg]

There are so many really nasty comments about this situation across the internet. The HailState FB group has some of the worst that I've seen. As a Bulldog, reading them makes me sad for humanity. I would hate to know that our football team and recruits are reading this stuff. The guy who sits next to me at DWS made a comment that I can't believe. It's absolutely amazing that a situation that doesn't have a thing to do with MSU, can bring out such poisonous rhetoric from our fans. Hopefully, my eyes have failed me and those comments were made by Rebels, not Bulldogs.

I agree- what are people so afraid of here?

[BeardoMSU]

I am not sure, but this isn't just white players at Mzzou. It's the entire team and coaching staff. There is significant support in the faculty as well. It's uncomfortable for sure, and I have some sympathy for the President, but he has let this situation fester and has failed to instill confidence in the University community. I admire people willing to take this kind of stand for their beliefs.

Exactly. It is isn't just "black" football players - this is a huge movement throughout the university.

[AlmostPositive]

It's mob rule. You can try to gussy it up any way you wish, but that is what it is.

[BeardoMSU]

Well, I guess it just all depends on what "mobs" you sympathize with...

[smootness]

It's mob rule. You can try to gussy it up any way you wish, but that is what it is.

No. It really isn't.

[AlmostPositive]

Well, I guess it just all depends on what "mobs" you sympathize with...

You missed the point entirely. The nature of the particular mob is irrelevant. Liberals are so used to deciding issues along identity politics lines that they routinely let principle get trumped by convenient affinities.

[Blackout]

Utopia cannot exist. This is about the reality that "shit happens" is not being taught to today's youths growing up. It's reinforced when whining always wins the day. The loudest get what they want because the normal don't feel like dealing with it any longer. It corrupts everything.

[AlmostPositive]

By the way, does anyone think Pinkel is just tickled to have his best players sit out the rest of the season? You think that's his preference, to field an uncompetitive team because of a campus politics?

[smootness]

By the way, does anyone think Pinkel is just tickled to have his best players sit out the rest of the season? You think that's his preference, to field an uncompetitive team because of a campus politics?

The whole team is doing it, not just a few players.

And anyway, this is precisely why they're doing it...because it has a chance to cause change.

[Blackout]

The whole team is doing it, not just a few players.

And anyway, this is precisely why they're doing it...because it has a chance to cause change.

Does the President deserve to lose his job?

The Puritans caused change too, they got rid of all those witches. Did that make it right?

[smootness]

Does the President deserve to lose his job?

The Puritans caused change too, they got rid of all those witches. Did that make it right?

No, not necessarily.

But the football team isn't forcing anything. They have no power to actually make a decision. If the people aren't with them, they face consequences themselves. You guys act like the football team determines whether the president keeps his job.

If people aren't behind the president, then he shouldn't be president and this is a way to try to push that to happen more quickly. If people are behind him, then this won't work. It's that simple.

If everyone at your job strikes, does the boss automatically lose his job? Of course not.

[smootness]

Also, yes, he might deserve to lose his job. If it's already gotten to this point, at the very least he hasn't handled the situation well.

[AlmostPositive]

If you had a three-year-old willing to hang by his neck until you change your ice-cream-for-breakfast policy, you wouldn't be forced to do anything... you could let him suffocate. Ditto for a teenager who stops speaking to the rest of the family until he gets a car... just let him wreck domestic tranquility for months on end.

Or you can cave to pressure.

[Bully13]

You missed the point entirely. The nature of the particular mob is irrelevant. Liberals are so used to deciding issues along identity politics lines that they routinely let principle get trumped by convenient affinities.

hey positive, you would be a welcomed guest on the political board. solid post, would like to see more of your stuff if you are so inclined.

[AlmostPositive]

Thanks... I may do that... I can get overly argumentative at times and I don't like generating ill will among fellow State alumni, so I would have to make myself tone things down a bit

[bluelightstar]

Missouri doing this could really cost the schools playing mizzou money. Could sec commissions potentially throw Missouri out of the sec for this?

There's a 0% chance the SEC schools would do anything to Missouri for this.

[gravedigger]

If you had a three-year-old willing to hang by his neck until you change your ice-cream-for-breakfast policy, you wouldn't be forced to do anything... you could let him suffocate. Ditto for a teenager who stops speaking to the rest of the family until he gets a car... just let him wreck domestic tranquility for months on end.

Or you can cave to pressure.

So a group demanding equal treatment from its leader equates to a child wanting icecream for breakfast?

[SDDawg]

hey positive, you would be a welcomed guest on the political board. solid post, would like to see more of your stuff if you are so inclined.

How about me, would I be welcome? :)

[AlmostPositive]

So a group demanding equal treatment from its leader equates to a child wanting icecream for breakfast?

It does not matter what the objective is. Students do not get to decide who the university president is.

[smootness]

It does not matter what the objective is. Students do not get to decide who the university president is.

No, they don't. So why are you pretending they do?

What they do get to decide is whether or not they eat, or play football.

I'll ask you a question...since technically, your 3-year-old could threaten to hang by their neck, what would be your response if they did so?

[SDDawg]

It does not matter what the objective is. Students do not get to decide who the university president is.

How about the faculty? State legislators? MO taxpayers?! (I am one, are you???) I appreciate your point of view, but you're discounting public discourse that is the foundation of our society. Peaceful protest and dissent is a good thing that drives progress.

[Blackout]

So a group demanding equal treatment from its leader equates to a child wanting icecream for breakfast?

Not getting the response you hoped for is now "unequal treatment"

Please tell me the fireable offense

[BeardoMSU]

How about the faculty? State legislators? MO taxpayers?! (I am one, are you???) I appreciate your point of view, but you're discounting public discourse that is the foundation of our society. Peaceful protest and dissent is a good thing that drives progress.

That only applies when people "peacefully" demand POTUS release his birth certificate, school transcripts, baby pictures, Ancestry.com results, a semen sample, and prove he doesn't have Quran verses tattooed to his upper-inner thigh****

[THE Bruce Dickinson]

Also let's say the president does resign, does the new president only get sworn in if this group of protesters give him/her the OK? Essentially you are letting this one group decide. I believe there is a word for that.....hhmmm I cant put my finger on it.

Oh yeah..It's called facism.

[starkvegasdawg]

Well, this has survived on the main board a lot longer than I thought.

[DancingRabbit]

I've read several articles and have not seen anything the university president did, or did not do that would justify his removal.

http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/columbiamissourian.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/7/e4/7e480a36-6f84-11e5-b79e-e307d32bb306/5619675fa91a2.image.jpg

[smootness]

Also let's say the president does resign, does the new president only get sworn in if this group of protesters give him/her the OK? Essentially you are letting this one group decide. I believe there is a word for that.....hhmmm I cant put my finger on it.

Oh yeah..It's called facism.

Why are people pretending it has been decided that because of the football team, the president will, in fact, resign or be fired?

The football team has said they are boycotting until the president is gone. They are perfectly free to decide not to play and to say whatever they want. We have no idea how this will play out. So let's let it before we jump to conclusions.

[AlmostPositive]

I've read several articles and have not seen anything the university president did, or did not do that would justify his removal.

http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/columbiamissourian.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/7/e4/7e480a36-6f84-11e5-b79e-e307d32bb306/5619675fa91a2.image.jpg

He refused to be abjectly intimidated by an identity politics mob. The bulk of the media and all of the Left consider this the modern equivalent of Klan membership.

[Blackout]

If any of you wants a history lesson Google "Mao Struggle Session"

Same tactics we see today. You cannot negotiate.

From Wiki
A struggle session was a form of public humiliation and torture used by the Communist Party of China in the Mao Zedong era to shape public opinion and to humiliate, persecute, or execute political rivals and class enemies. In general, the victim of a struggle session was forced to admit to various crimes before a crowd of people who would verbally and physically abuse the victim until he or she confessed. Struggle sessions were often held at the workplace of the accused, but were sometimes conducted in sports stadiums where large crowds would gather if the target was famous enough.

[smootness]

If any of you wants a history lesson Google "Mao Struggle Session"

Same tactics we see today. You cannot negotiate.

From Wiki
A struggle session was a form of public humiliation and torture used by the Communist Party of China in the Mao Zedong era to shape public opinion and to humiliate, persecute, or execute political rivals and class enemies. In general, the victim of a struggle session was forced to admit to various crimes before a crowd of people who would verbally and physically abuse the victim until he or she confessed. Struggle sessions were often held at the workplace of the accused, but were sometimes conducted in sports stadiums where large crowds would gather if the target was famous enough.

Surely you see the difference here. Please tell me that you do.

[THE Bruce Dickinson]

I totally agree. The football players have right not to play, and the university has the right to pull scholarships and send their ass packing. These young men (black and white) signed a contract to play football for the university in exchange for free tuition to the University of Missouri and if they fail to do so, UM should stop paying their way. It's that simple.

[Blackout]

Surely you see the difference here. Please tell me that you do.

Speaking more so of the trend on college campuses as a whole but the "demand that the President publically denounce his white privledge" is struggle session 101

[smootness]

I totally agree. The football players have right not to play, and the university has the right to pull scholarships and send their ass packing. These young men (black and white) signed a contract to play football for the university in exchange for free tuition to the University of Missouri and if they fail to do so, UM should stop paying their way. It's that simple.

Missouri absolutely has that right. But if public opinion sides with the players, that would likely be a very bad move.

Anyone relying solely on authority, in this society, will eventually find themselves out of the very position that gave them authority. At the very least, the fact that this issue has mushroomed into the current situation proves that the UM president has been a poor leader. A leader who has lost the confidence of the people he is leading is probably going to be forced out eventually...either that, or he must change. Otherwise the organization will eventually crumble.

[AlmostPositive]

It's that simple.

Yeah it is. Congrats on your brave political stance, boycotters, and here's a bill for thirty grand each if you want to stick around campus.

[PendingTransaction]

Why are people pretending it has been decided that because of the football team, the president will, in fact, resign or be fired?

The football team has said they are boycotting until the president is gone. They are perfectly free to decide not to play and to say whatever they want. We have no idea how this will play out. So let's let it before we jump to conclusions.

The very essence of many of the comments that I have read is that the athletes are not free to decide. The scholarship, housing and food makes them University property. The right to exercise civil disobedience is fundamental to our democracy. To deny this fact says that the minority should have no voice. It's not like they are looting in the streets of Columbia. It appears that many would prefer that the football players resort to such actions. At least this would allow the usual adjectives to be attached to them.

[smootness]

Speaking more so of the trend on college campuses as a whole but the "demand that the President publically denounce his white privledge" is struggle session 101

The very reason the struggle sessions were so horrible is that they were led by those in power/authority. It was clear tyranny.

There is no comparison between a struggle session led by the body in power, with the ability to coerce, punish, and even kill, and an attempt by controlled body without power or authority to highlight abuses and produce change. It's laughable to draw a connection to Communist China here.

It's the very difference between a society like Mao's and a society like ours. In Mao's China, those not in power are controlled by those in power. In the US, those not in power are a check on those in power.

You're equating the people of communist China with the University of Missouri president, and Mao with the UM students. Think about that.

[Blackout]

Missouri absolutely has that right. But if public opinion sides with the players, that would likely be a very bad move.

Anyone relying solely on authority, in this society, will eventually find themselves out of the very position that gave them authority. At the very least, the fact that this issue has mushroomed into the current situation proves that the UM president has been a poor leader. A leader who has lost the confidence of the people he is leading is probably going to be forced out eventually...either that, or he must change. Otherwise the organization will eventually crumble.

What should the President have done differently. His actions are never addressed! Anyone with a damn grievance these days is given an automatic presumption of being right. Because this has been allowed to take place anyone who ever feels uncomfortable can shriek and shrill and be accommodated. We're now voting on whether or not boys can pee in the girls bathroom. Enough PC! Facts and common sense matter, not the loudest mob. If he loses his job it should be based on merit alone.... He can't control the whacked out fringes nor can anyone else and saying well look at the situation he obviously isn't fit to lead is not justice.

I'm glad he's calling their bluff. Its about time someone stood up and shouted get the **** off my lawn to the insanity that has become the modern fascist college student

http://www.vox.com/2015/6/3/8706323/college-professor-afraid

[smootness]

The very essence of many of the comments that I have read is that the athletes are not free to decide. The scholarship, housing and food makes them University property. The right to exercise civil disobedience is fundamental to our democracy. To deny this fact says that the minority should have no voice. It's not like they are looting in the streets of Columbia. It appears that many would prefer that the football players resort to such actions. At least this would allow the usual adjectives to be attached to them.

I agree with you. I'm not sure if you're trying to disagree with me or not, but yes, I'm with you.

Blackout used a system in which those being governed had no power over, or checks on, those governing as rationale to basically support the notion that those being governed should have no power over, or checks on, those governing. I'm not sure he realizes it, but that is what he's arguing.

[Coach007]

Why are people pretending it has been decided that because of the football team, the president will, in fact, resign or be fired?

The football team has said they are boycotting until the president is gone. They are perfectly free to decide not to play and to say whatever they want. We have no idea how this will play out. So let's let it before we jump to conclusions.

That would be because of the money football brings in. The words from the athletic director put that department at odds with this president.

In the end, the money will win.... Right or wrong... It will win. Then we take another step in the wrong direction.

[Irondawg]

There are a couple of thinks going on here. The first is either that Missouri has some of the most thin skinned students in the world or that there is A LOT of stuff at play here that isn't being reported. And if it's the latter it's even more surprising because the group asking for his ouster I would think would have a manifesto ready for the media on his failings. Just really odd at the lack of information.

The other thing I'd ask is what difference will a new president make? A school president can't keep stupid people from doing stupid stuff. If the new president gives a nice speech and demands some sensitivity poster hung up around campus and offers a diversity forum does it really do anything?

Now if you tell me the school has failed to administer any discipline to students found guilty of behaving badly then it's a different narrative.

[Blackout]

The very reason the struggle sessions were so horrible is that they were led by those in power/authority. It was clear tyranny.

There is no comparison between a struggle session led by the body in power, with the ability to coerce, punish, and even kill, and an attempt by controlled body without power or authority to highlight abuses and produce change. It's laughable to draw a connection to Communist China here.

It's the very difference between a society like Mao's and a society like ours. In Mao's China, those not in power are controlled by those in power. In the US, those not in power are a check on those in power.

You're equating the people of communist China with the University of Missouri president, and Mao with the UM students. Think about that.

Mao wasn't always the one in power and his Red Guard began on a college campus. You are seeing the check on the outrage mob. A much needed check.

[smootness]

What should the President have done differently. His actions are never addressed! Anyone with a damn grievance these days is given an automatic presumption of being right. Because this has been allowed to take place anyone who ever feels uncomfortable can shriek and shrill and be accommodated. We're now voting on whether or not boys can pee in the girls bathroom. Enough PC! Facts and common sense matter, not the loudest mob. If he loses his job it should be based on merit alone.... He can't control the whacked out fringes nor can anyone else and saying well look at the situation he obviously isn't fit to lead is not justice.

I'm glad he's calling their bluff. Its about time someone stood up and shouted get the **** off my lawn to the insanity that has become the modern fascist college student

http://www.vox.com/2015/6/3/8706323/college-professor-afraid

You're arguing that a college student expressing their opinion in an attempt to produce change is a fascist. It's literally the exact opposite of fascism.

I'm not saying the players or students are right. I don't know enough to say that. But I also don't know enough to say that they're wrong. The very fact that this has ballooned is one strike against the president. He hasn't handled the situation well at all. He has basically ignored the opinions of some of his students, and that is a large reason why it is now where it is.

All I'm saying is that in this society, the ability to freely express an opinion and gather others who agree in an attempt to produce change is one of the foundations of our society. I can't understand why you are so dead set against it, or why you believe the students here are somehow exhibiting characteristics of fascism or communism.

[THE Bruce Dickinson]

So the answer is a public flogging of the university president who really seems to have done nothing wrong ?

[Coach007]

I am not sure, but this isn't just white players at Mzzou. It's the entire team and coaching staff. There is significant support in the faculty as well. It's uncomfortable for sure, and I have some sympathy for the President, but he has let this situation fester and has failed to instill confidence in the University community. I admire people willing to take this kind of stand for their beliefs.

I have not seen where the faculty is behind his removal. Can you give details?

[smootness]

That would be because of the money football brings in. The words from the athletic director put that department at odds with this president.

In the end, the money will win.... Right or wrong... It will win. Then we take another step in the wrong direction.

Yes, the system whereby college football brings in millions upon millions and funds universities was definitely created by these students.**

Perhaps this situation will shed light on the risks associated with the kind of money found in college football and will produce important changes on that issue.

It's absurd, though, to watch colleges and college presidents make millions off a system they've created and then blame football players for it when they realize the power it gives them and try to use it to advance a cause they believe in. The players here are not the ones making decisions here for money.

[PendingTransaction]

I agree with you. I'm not sure if you're trying to disagree with me or not, but yes, I'm with you.

Blackout used a system in which those being governed had no power over, or checks on, those governing as rationale to basically support the notion that those being governed should have no power over, or checks on, those governing. I'm not sure he realizes it, but that is what he's arguing.

I'm totally with you. I don't know all the details surrounding this situation. However, common sense leads me to believe that there is more to it than a few black students being butt hurt over some single dick using the "n" word. I can't believe such pettiness would compel a unversity AD, head football coach, and 85 student athletes to take such a bold stance. But since we are in the south, I guess we will contribute it to the ungratefulness of the negroes and white guilt.

[Blackout]

So the answer is a public flogging of the university president who really seems to have done nothing wrong ?

That's just students freely expressing themselves**

[AlmostPositive]

Mao murdered 60 million people and was an icon of many liberals and academics. Ditto for Stalin, minus 20 million or so. Pardon me if I'm unimpressed by the political Left's moral compass..

[smootness]

So the answer is a public flogging of the university president who really seems to have done nothing wrong ?

A public flogging?

Good grief. The sensitive ones here seem to be the ones who believe the students shouldn't be able to do this. He is a university president in charge of thousands of students. There have been issues on that campus recently, and he hasn't responded to any of them. Some students tried to get his attention, and he ignored them. Then, and only then, did this become public. That's what can happen when you don't lead effectively.

But please explain to me, again, what kind of authority these students have, or what they can make the president do. If you consider any criticism of a leader to constitute 'public flogging,' then yikes.

[Coach007]

Yes, the system whereby college football brings in millions upon millions and funds universities was definitely created by these students.**

Perhaps this situation will shed light on the risks associated with the kind of money found in college football and will produce important changes on that issue.

It's absurd, though, to watch colleges and college presidents make millions off a system they've created and then blame football players for it when they realize the power it gives them and try to use it to advance a cause they believe in. The players here are not the ones making decisions here for money.

That wasn't my point. Students with no real life experience will force a change and effect a mans life over what? Pinkel and the Ad are using this situation for what? Because they don't want a divided team?

I do believe the president was acting through a process. I do believe the media LOVES some good racial stories for ratings. And I don't believe this president will survive due to it.

[smootness]

Mao murdered 60 million people and was an icon of many liberals and academics. Ditto for Stalin, minus 20 million or so. Pardon me if I'm unimpressed by the political Left's moral compass..

I agree. Mao and Stalin were terrible, and the systems that allowed them to do what they did should be avoided at all costs. But it's the people suggesting these students shouldn't be able to voice criticisms of leadership who are actually advocating for a system in line with those that produced Mao and Stalin.

I have no idea why you're trying to make this a left/right issue. It's not.

[BeardoMSU]

liberals and academics

I identify as these two, but not with the Mao part...I guess 2 out of 3, ain't bad.

[smootness]

That wasn't my point. Students with no real life experience will force a change and effect a mans life over what? Pinkel and the Ad are using this situation for what? Because they don't want a divided team?

I do believe the president was acting through a process. I do believe the media LOVES some good racial stories for ratings. And I don't believe this president will survive due to it.

His job is to lead the university and its students. He clearly hasn't done that effectively. If his life is affected by this, it's at least partially on him for it getting to this point. You act like one random incident happened and everyone immediately said, 'Hey, our president should be removed.'

Are you saying students without life experience shouldn't have rights? Or that they should be more easily controlled.

Perhaps Pinkel actually agrees with the football players that there is an issue?

[AlmostPositive]

A public flogging?

.. he hasn't responded to any of them..

This is false.

[Taog Redloh]

I agree. Mao and Stalin were terrible, and the systems that allowed them to do what they did should be avoided at all costs. But it's the people suggesting these students shouldn't be able to voice criticisms of leadership who are actually advocating for a system in line with those that produced Mao and Stalin.

I have no idea why you're trying to make this a left/right issue. It's not.
These 'students' are dysfunctional, unruly and want nothing more than to create chaos. And they reason they do that, is because they think they will advance themselves through the chaos.

They need to be stopped. Protests are fine, but stopping parades (disturbing the peace) and the like need to be handled swiftly. They are NOT being discriminated against by this president. It's freaking unbelievable that reasonable humans would give these morons the time of day.

[smootness]

The vibe I'm getting from several of you is, 'These players are receiving benefits from the university for playing. Therefore, they shouldn't have concerns beyond football and should fall in line and do what they're told. And the university president is a man with intelligence and experience, he knows best and shouldn't be questioned. Those in leadership shouldn't be vulnerable to any potential consequences instigated by those they lead.'

Please explain how this viewpoint isn't exactly like that found in communist China or the USSR?

[smootness]

This is false.

Please show me where he responded to them before these protests began.

[smootness]

These 'students' are dysfunctional, unruly and want nothing more than to create chaos. And they reason they do that, is because they think they will advance themselves through the chaos.

They need to be stopped. Protests are fine, but stopping parades (disturbing the peace) and the like need to be handled swiftly. They are NOT being discriminated against by this president. It's freaking unbelievable that reasonable humans would give these morons the time of day.

'I will assume the worst about these protesters. Their concerns are immaterial, our parades must not be compromised!'

[Taog Redloh]

I identify as these two, but not with the Mao part...I guess 2 out of 3, ain't bad.
Ah, a useful idiot, eh? Feel free to tell us how wrong we are and how you know better, while behind the safety of your gated community.

[AlmostPositive]

I haven't heard anyone say the players aren't free to quit the team and pay their own way. They should be able to do this for any reason.

In the meantime, with the state of public discourse as it is, I'm sure the media will be as honest in their portrayal of this little saga as they were with the "Hands up Don't Shoot!" fraud. They did a lot of damage then and they will be happy to do more now.

[THE Bruce Dickinson]

These issues that you speak of are isolated incidents from ignorant students. What is the president supposed to do? Throw on his cape and lock them up? Please tell me specifically what the president has done that warrants his removal because not being sensitive enough to the needs of this group is not an acceptable answer.

Here is the list of demands:

We demand that University of Missouri System President, Tim Wolfe, writes a hand-written apology to Concerned Student 1-9-5-0 demonstrators and holds a press conference in the Mizzou Student Center reading the letter. In the letter and at the press conference, Tim Wolfe must acknowledge his white privilege, recognize that systems of oppression exits, and provide a verbal commitment to fulfilling Concerned Student 1-9-5-0 demands. We want Tim Wolfe to admits his gross negligence, allowing his driver to hit one of the demonstrators, consenting to the physical violence of bystanders, and lastly refusing to intervene when Columbia Police Department used excessive force with demonstrators.

2. We demand the immediate removal of Tim Wolfe as UM system president. After his removal, a new amendment to thd UM system policies must be established to have all future UM system president and Chancellor positions be selected by a collective of students, staff, and faculty of diverse backgrounds.

3. We demand that the University of Missouri meets the Legion of Black Collegians’ demands that were presented in the 1969 for the betterment of the black community.

4. We demand that the University of Missouri creates and enforces comprehensive racial awareness and inclusion curriculum throughout all campus departments and units, mandatory for all students, faculty, staff and administration. This curriculum must be vetted, maintained, and overseen by a board comprised of students, staff and faculty of color.

5. We demand that by the academic year 2017-18, the University of Missouri increases the percentage of black faculty and staff members campus-wide by 10 percent.

6. We demand that the University of Missouri composes a strategic 10-year plan on May, 1 2016 that will increase retention rates for marginalized students, sustain diversity curriculum and training, and promote a more safe and inclusive campus.

7. We demand that the University of Missouri increases funding and resources for the University of Missouri Counseling Center for the purpose of hiring additional mental health professionals, particularly those of color, boosting mental health outreach and programming across campus, increasing campus-wide awareness and visibility of the counseling center, and reducing lengthy wait times for prospective clients.

8. We demand that the University of Missouri increases funding, resources and personnel for the social justice centers on campus for the purpose of hiring additional professionals, particularly those of color, boosting outreach and programming across campus and increasing campus-wide awareness and visibility.


Given this list i think my analogy is not that far off.

[PendingTransaction]

Again, I'm shocked by the beliefs of my fellow Bulldogs surrounding this issue. Perhaps I shouldn't be. It clear that heritage, culture, politics, parenting, and sadly, religious beliefs have framed the minds and hearts of many. If our players and coaches would ever take a similar position on an issue, I'm sure that DWS would be burned to the ground.

[Taog Redloh]

'I will assume the worst about these protesters. Their concerns are immaterial, our parades must not be compromised!'
Damn right, in this situation. We've seen this whiny bullshit time and time again, with various people groups. Being a victim of discrimination is a way of advancing oneself in the modern United States. You KNOW this is true.

You know better than what you type. My question is, when did you allow this poisonous thought to overcome you? I think you just want to appear high and mighty.

[BeardoMSU]

while behind the safety of your gated community.

I live in Starkville, enjoying the luxurious accommodations of a cramped 2 bedroom apartment with my GF and our 4 pets. Sorry to buck your stereotypes, Smitty.

[Taog Redloh]

Again, I'm shocked by the beliefs of my fellow Bulldogs surrounding this issue. Perhaps I shouldn't be. It clear that heritage, culture, politics, parenting, and sadly, religious beliefs have framed the minds and hearts of many. If our players and coaches would ever take a similar position on an issue, I'm sure that DWS would be burned to the ground.
Honest question - why does your side always have to bring out this shaming bullshit? Can you not just have a reasonable debate? We disagree, dude. It's no big deal. No one is better or lesser of a person.

[AlmostPositive]

Again, I'm shocked by the beliefs of my fellow Bulldogs surrounding this issue. Perhaps I shouldn't be. It clear that heritage, culture, politics, parenting, and sadly, religious beliefs have framed the minds and hearts of many. If our players and coaches would ever take a similar position on an issue, I'm sure that DWS would be burned to the ground.

This is the kind of sanctimonious blather that makes me embarrassed that I was ever a political liberal.

[Taog Redloh]

This is the kind of sanctimonious blather that makes me embarrassed that I was ever a political liberal.
I think you just summed this whole deal up.

[AlmostPositive]

Here's my list of demands:

1. If you sign on to play football, play football.


That is all.

[Coach007]

His job is to lead the university and its students. He clearly hasn't done that effectively. If his life is affected by this, it's at least partially on him for it getting to this point. You act like one random incident happened and everyone immediately said, 'Hey, our president should be removed.'

Are you saying students without life experience shouldn't have rights? Or that they should be more easily controlled.

Perhaps Pinkel actually agrees with the football players that there is an issue?

No, I'm acting like 2 things happened that were addressed by the chancellor. His efforts were blown off.

[smootness]

Damn right, in this situation. We've seen this whiny bullshit time and time again, with various people groups. Being a victim of discrimination is a way of advancing oneself in the modern United States. You KNOW this is true.

You know better than what you type. My question is, when did you allow this poisonous thought to overcome you? I think you just want to appear high and mighty.

Good gosh, man.

Literally the only things I've said here are:
1. The students have a right to do this. It's actually what makes our society great.
2. The degree to which their opinions catch on and produce change will be determined by how many others agree with them.
3. The university has a right to take action as well. Similarly, the degree to which those actions will be accepted and won't be counterproductive will be determined by how many people side with them.
4. The UM president has not shown great leadership in this whole situation, beginning a few months ago, and he is reaping the consequences of that now.
6. We don't know everything about the situation.

I likely don't agree with everything these protesters believe or want. My political views in General might surprise you. But suggesting this is somehow mob rule, or comparable to the actions of the communist party in China, or that these students shouldn't be able to do this, is absurd.

Only you and a few others have made assumptions about anyone in this situation. Those assumptions are baseless at this point.

[smootness]

No, I'm acting like 2 things happened that were addressed by the chancellor. His efforts were blown off.

Ok, so show me where you found this information.

[Blackout]

Again, I'm shocked by the beliefs of my fellow Bulldogs surrounding this issue. Perhaps I shouldn't be.

Inform me on the specific wrongdoings of the president.

Just because someone screams loudly does not give their cause merit. Just because others fear being shamed and join in (Pinkel) doesn't increase the validity of the cause. Facts matter. Civil society matters.

It's not up for a vote either Smootness. You keep saying "depends on how many agree with which side". That's bullshit. I don't care if the entire student body and faculty agree, if he did nothing wrong he doesn't deserve to lose his career

[BeardoMSU]

why does your side always have to bring out this shaming bullshit? Can you not just have a reasonable debate?

From the guy who just called me the "useful idiot". Does your memory only go back 5 minutes?

[PendingTransaction]

Shaming bullshit and sanctimonious??? I have no desire to nor do I believe that "shaming" will counter such deep-seated beliefs. Sanctimonious...I try to take the moral high ground. When given the opportunity, I Encourage others to do likewise. I understand that you are not ashamed and you are comfortable in your morals.

[smootness]

Inform me on the specific wrongdoings of the president.

Just because someone screams loudly does not give their cause merit. Just because others fear being shamed and join in (Pinkel) doesn't increase the validity of the cause. Facts matter. Civil society matters.

It's not up for a vote either Smootness. You keep saying "depends on how many agree with which side". That's bullshit. I don't care if the entire student body and faculty agree, if he did nothing wrong he doesn't deserve to lose his career

Who said he would lose his career? When I say it depends on how many agree, I'm mostly talking about those who actually are in a position to make a decision on the president.

If a university president no longer has the confidence of the students, faculty, and/or public, he can't effectively lead. Or if his reputation causes the reputation of the university to suffer, or their bottom line to be hurt, those are legitimate reasons to let him go.

I'm not even arguing that's necessarily fair. But it's reality in our society and happens to countless people every day. If he is a skilled and effective leader, he should be able to resolve this, one way or another. If he can't resolve it, he shouldn't be in that position.

[smootness]

It's reality. Those in leadership must have the confidence and support of those they lead in order to do so effectively. Those who want to produce change from the bottom up must have widespread support in order to accomplish it.

Do you deny that reality?

[AlmostPositive]

Shaming bullshit and sanctimonious??? I have no desire to nor do I believe that "shaming" will counter such deep-seated beliefs. Sanctimonious...I try to take the moral high ground. When given the opportunity, I Encourage others to do likewise. I understand that you are ashamed and you are comfortable in your morals.


You make it very easy for me not to give your outrage much weight.

[AlmostPositive]

People were very willing to lie about about what happened in Ferguson. The media was eager to propagate those lies. This will be no different.

[Blackout]

We need to false flag organize the northern miss bears into a similar circumstance. Their high draft picks might be looking for a way out of injury risk these last few games.

Covert ops in Oxford make this happen. A Bear football boycott would be absolutely outstanding.

[Coach007]

Ok, so show me where you found this information.


Ok.. time line is this: and can be found in the columbian paper

Sept. 12: Missouri Students Association president Payton Head posts about a racial slur directed at him. Was never turned in.

Oct. 5: Legion of Black Collegians members are the targets of racial slurs by a man on campus. The group was rehearsing for a performance at Traditions Plaza when a ?young man? talking on his cellphone walked up to the group. After being politely and repeatedly asked to leave, the man walked away but referenced LBC members using racial slurs. A heated encounter.

That same day, MU Chancellor R. Bowen Loftin responded with a post of his own, acknowledging and condemning racism at MU.

As you can see.. A response. That response was followed by Oct. 8: Loftin announces mandatory online diversity training for faculty, staff and students.

That wasn't enough

In comes a group called concerned student 1950...

[Irondawg]

These issues that you speak of are isolated incidents from ignorant students. What is the president supposed to do? Throw on his cape and lock them up? Please tell me specifically what the president has done that warrants his removal because not being sensitive enough to the needs of this group is not an acceptable answer.

Here is the list of demands:

We demand that University of Missouri System President, Tim Wolfe, writes a hand-written apology to Concerned Student 1-9-5-0 demonstrators and holds a press conference in the Mizzou Student Center reading the letter. In the letter and at the press conference, Tim Wolfe must acknowledge his white privilege, recognize that systems of oppression exits, and provide a verbal commitment to fulfilling Concerned Student 1-9-5-0 demands. We want Tim Wolfe to admits his gross negligence, allowing his driver to hit one of the demonstrators, consenting to the physical violence of bystanders, and lastly refusing to intervene when Columbia Police Department used excessive force with demonstrators.

2. We demand the immediate removal of Tim Wolfe as UM system president. After his removal, a new amendment to thd UM system policies must be established to have all future UM system president and Chancellor positions be selected by a collective of students, staff, and faculty of diverse backgrounds.

3. We demand that the University of Missouri meets the Legion of Black Collegians? demands that were presented in the 1969 for the betterment of the black community.

4. We demand that the University of Missouri creates and enforces comprehensive racial awareness and inclusion curriculum throughout all campus departments and units, mandatory for all students, faculty, staff and administration. This curriculum must be vetted, maintained, and overseen by a board comprised of students, staff and faculty of color.

5. We demand that by the academic year 2017-18, the University of Missouri increases the percentage of black faculty and staff members campus-wide by 10 percent.

6. We demand that the University of Missouri composes a strategic 10-year plan on May, 1 2016 that will increase retention rates for marginalized students, sustain diversity curriculum and training, and promote a more safe and inclusive campus.

7. We demand that the University of Missouri increases funding and resources for the University of Missouri Counseling Center for the purpose of hiring additional mental health professionals, particularly those of color, boosting mental health outreach and programming across campus, increasing campus-wide awareness and visibility of the counseling center, and reducing lengthy wait times for prospective clients.

8. We demand that the University of Missouri increases funding, resources and personnel for the social justice centers on campus for the purpose of hiring additional professionals, particularly those of color, boosting outreach and programming across campus and increasing campus-wide awareness and visibility.


Given this list i think my analogy is not that far off.

Because this whole thing could get full of misinformatio - exactly who's list of demands is this? The group the football players are behind or some other random faction joining in?

[smootness]

People were very willing to lie about about what happened in Ferguson. The media was eager to propagate those lies. This will be no different.

Yet where is BLM? They basically haven't been able to actually get anything done because not enough people are behind them.

Blaming the media is too easy. There aren't that many people for whom the media actually influences their opinions/beliefs.

[Bully13]

Apparently there is another big controversy at Mizzou because there is an on-campus abortion clinic. The president will not consider closing it down or moving it to another location, so there is another big group (maybe a little overlap, but probably not much) calling for his resignation.

I wonder how different the reactions here would be if Mizzou players were going on strike because of abortion rather than racial inequality?

an "on campus" abortion clinic. well my my haven't times changed. at aged 52, I have such a hard time keeping up with modern things. that's sounds so God Awful. but I guess it's part of modern stuff and all.

just go 17 your brains out once you get to school, then have the result siphoned out of your vagiiiiiinnnna as a piece of tissue and WTF is it anybody's bidness?

sorry for missing the boat youngsters... you young folks are so 17ing smart, I have a hard time keeping up with you

[Coach007]

So as you can see, it was addressed. MANDATORY online training by EVERYBODY! But that's not really the goal.

[Taog Redloh]

Only you and a few others have made assumptions about anyone in this situation. Those assumptions are baseless at this point.
Come on, man.

I get it. I know you are trying to be reasonable. But you do realize, that the students are the very definition of unreasonable? Even if they are correct THIS time (which is highly unlikely), which would make you correct, do you really think they'll do the right thing NEXT time? Hell no. Blind squirrel, nut, all that. They are in this for what they can get out of it, because they haven't been successful at earning anything (or haven't tried).

Missouri is pretty liberal. There ain't NOBODY holding anyone back. 'Institutional' racism, 'systemic' oppression.....all buzzwords for 'give me an advantage'. Their enemy isn't there, and they know it.

[Coach007]

Because this whole thing could get full of misinformatio - exactly who's list of demands is this? The group the football players are behind or some other random faction joining in?

No.. it's a group called concerned student 1950

[AlmostPositive]

We need to false flag organize the northern miss bears into a similar circumstance. Their high draft picks might be looking for a way out of injury risk these last few games.

Covert ops in Oxford make this happen. A Bear football boycott would be absolutely outstanding.




Blaming the media is too easy. There aren't that many people for whom the media actually influences their opinions/beliefs.


I watched CNN and and other networks give full credence to known liars. As a consequence, millions of people believed the Hands Up, Don't Shoot lie. Their outrage was based on a deliberate fiction. You seem willing to shade the truth on this latest matter. I don't understand this tendency from the left.

[Blackout]

While we're making demands....

Faurot Field must

1. Install trans bathrooms.
2. Designate 1 section as a safe space
3. Designate 1 section as a free speech zone
4. Remake their grass endzone into a free range chicken coop

[THE Bruce Dickinson]

This is the group that the football players are behind. They call themselves concerned students 1950. Please search #concernedstudents1950 on twitter and you will see a lot of information there.

http://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/mizzou-football/heres-list-demands-mizzous-protesting-athletes-students/

[PendingTransaction]

You make it very easy for me not to give your outrage much weight.

Brother, I am not outraged. I think I understand many of the dynamics at work here. For me this isn't about whether the President of some university that I couldn't care less about. Neither is about a football team(who I also have limited feelings for) taking a stance on an issue that I can't speak on the merit thereof. But those dynamics have caused many of MSU supporters to spout some very serious vitriol. As I stated early, I hope that our players and potentials are not reading these comments. Especially some that I've read in other places.

[smootness]

Ok.. time line is this: and can be found in the columbian paper

Sept. 12: Missouri Students Association president Payton Head posts about a racial slur directed at him. Was never turned in.

Oct. 5: Legion of Black Collegians members are the targets of racial slurs by a man on campus. The group was rehearsing for a performance at Traditions Plaza when a ?young man? talking on his cellphone walked up to the group. After being politely and repeatedly asked to leave, the man walked away but referenced LBC members using racial slurs. A heated encounter.

That same day, MU Chancellor R. Bowen Loftin responded with a post of his own, acknowledging and condemning racism at MU.

As you can see.. A response. That response was followed by Oct. 8: Loftin announces mandatory online diversity training for faculty, staff and students.

That wasn't enough

In comes a group called concerned student 1950...

Thank you. Yes, this is evidence of an attempt by the Missouri administration. So we at least do have that. And after looking a little more, it appears Wolfe also met with the group as well, though it was a couple weeks after the Homecoming parade incident.

The bottom line here is, this issue is still receiving support from large sections of the Missouri students. Are they all ignorant and looking out for themselves? I find that hard to believe. Is the Missouri administration/president solely to blame? Probably not. But it seems obvious that more needs to be done, by both sides, if they both actually do want change, and they both claim they do.

Part of my issue with groups like this is that they do make such unrealistic and extreme demands right off the bat. But that just means they're less likely to have those demands met, it doesn't mean the university is forced to meet them.

Being a university president, especially at a time like this, is not easy. Wolfe signed up for it, and now it's on him to figure out a way to come to some kind of resolution. That may not be possible, but both sides need to come to the table with the intent to be realistic and actually resolve the issue. At the very least, Wolfe needs to make it clear what he has done in an attempt to resolve it. I believe that if he is sincere and honest, he will get majority support.

[Taog Redloh]

I watched CNN and and other networks give full credence to known liars. As a consequence, millions of people believed the Hands Up, Don't Shoot lie. Their outrage was based on a deliberate fiction. You seem willing to shade the truth on this latest matter. I don't understand this tendency from the left.
Me either. It's not going to be good for them in the long run. Makes ZERO sense, other than they simply want to watch the world devolve into chaos, due to their own unhappiness.

[smootness]

Come on, man.

I get it. I know you are trying to be reasonable. But you do realize, that the students are the very definition of unreasonable? Even if they are correct THIS time (which is highly unlikely), which would make you correct, do you really think they'll do the right thing NEXT time? Hell no. Blind squirrel, nut, all that. They are in this for what they can get out of it, because they haven't been successful at earning anything (or haven't tried).

Missouri is pretty liberal. There ain't NOBODY holding anyone back. 'Institutional' racism, 'systemic' oppression.....all buzzwords for 'give me an advantage'. Their enemy isn't there, and they know it.

I'm honestly not that concerned over whether they're right or not, in the discussion we're having right now. I am glad they have the right and ability to voice their concerns and opinions. Sure, they may be stupid opinions and unreasonable concerns/demands, etc. but generally speaking, groups with stupid opinions don't gain much support and don't produce much change.

The system generally works pretty well. I'm not sure what you're arguing. Are you arguing that since they're unlikely to be correct, they shouldn't be able to make demands like this? Again, any group can make any 'demands' they want. I could get all my coworkers to make 'demands' of my boss, but the only way it's going to actually lead to anything is if those demands are legitimate, they are expressed in a valid way, and they have widespread support.

I'm not making a judgement on the validity of their claims. That's for Missouri's administration to decide, I don't have to make that decision. But I will always defend their right to make the claims.

[AlmostPositive]

I clicked on your link and read some the comments from Missouri fans and alumni who witnessed the "protests."

Sounds like they're about a week and a half away from destroying their athletic programs for a decade or more.

[Quaoarsking]

The fact that every single Missouri player (both black and white, liberal and conservative, rich and poor, etc.), every single Missouri coach (both black and white, liberal and conservative, etc.), the AD, a big chunk of the student body from all backgrounds, much of the faculty and university administration, the governor of Missouri, and prominent Missouri politicians in BOTH parties are united on this should be a clue that that isn't just a few morons having a bitchfit over nothing, shouldn't it?

[smootness]

I watched CNN and and other networks give full credence to known liars. As a consequence, millions of people believed the Hands Up, Don't Shoot lie. Their outrage was based on a deliberate fiction. You seem willing to shade the truth on this latest matter. I don't understand this tendency from the left.


You think I'm part of 'the left'?

I would agree with you that the media is generally pretty bad nowadays. My point is not that the media is awesome; it's that in reality, they don't have that much influence. Those who enthusiastically believed the 'Hands Up, Don't Shoot' narrative were mostly those already inclined to believe it and want to fight it to begin with. I do think the media can enflame already-existing beliefs and passions, but I don't really think they change opinions that much. For the most part, people find the media outlet they already agree with, so most media now is simply 'preaching to the choir'.

For example, do I think CNN is now largely a joke? Yes. Do I think it really matters? No, not really. Those who go to CNN for their news are the ones who already see things from their viewpoint.

[smootness]

The fact that every single Missouri player (both black and white, liberal and conservative, rich and poor, etc.), every single Missouri coach (both black and white, liberal and conservative, etc.), the AD, a big chunk of the student body from all backgrounds, much of the faculty and university administration, the governor of Missouri, and prominent Missouri politicians in BOTH parties are united on this should be a clue that that isn't just a few morons having a bitchfit over nothing, shouldn't it?


This is kind of my point on some of it, but you said it better than I did.

[Coach007]

Thank you. Yes, this is evidence of an attempt by the Missouri administration. So we at least do have that. And after looking a little more, it appears Wolfe also met with the group as well, though it was a couple weeks after the Homecoming parade incident.

The bottom line here is, this issue is still receiving support from large sections of the Missouri students. Are they all ignorant and looking out for themselves? I find that hard to believe. Is the Missouri administration/president solely to blame? Probably not. But it seems obvious that more needs to be done, by both sides, if they both actually do want change, and they both claim they do.

Part of my issue with groups like this is that they do make such unrealistic and extreme demands right off the bat. But that just means they're less likely to have those demands met, it doesn't mean the university is forced to meet them.

Being a university president, especially at a time like this, is not easy. Wolfe signed up for it, and now it's on him to figure out a way to come to some kind of resolution. That may not be possible, but both sides need to come to the table with the intent to be realistic and actually resolve the issue. At the very least, Wolfe needs to make it clear what he has done in an attempt to resolve it. I believe that if he is sincere and honest, he will get majority support.


These are not just students. You do understand how close Ferguson is right? This is not being carried out just by students. Where did concerned students 1950 come from? Where did they get the organization? Come on. We all know that young people like a good cause to fight authority. You did it, I did it, etc...

More needs to be done? We will never force every human in this world to like everybody else. There will always be a few idiots. At issue here, and I HOPE they have sense enough to handle it, is riots. Not because of the 2 incidences that were addressed, but because you have a few people inciting it. Those demands HAD NOTHING to do with what happened.

You know it, and I know it.

[AlmostPositive]

The unanimity you refer to is just as good an indication of intimidation as it is of willingly shared opinion. Sort of reminds me of North Korean election results.

[Coach007]

The fact that every single Missouri player (both black and white, liberal and conservative, rich and poor, etc.), every single Missouri coach (both black and white, liberal and conservative, etc.), the AD, a big chunk of the student body from all backgrounds, much of the faculty and university administration, the governor of Missouri, and prominent Missouri politicians in BOTH parties are united on this should be a clue that that isn't just a few morons having a bitchfit over nothing, shouldn't it?

Yeah... but that's not true at all.

[Taog Redloh]

The Mizzou team isn't as united as they tried to portray:

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/14087454/missouri-tigers-player-says-team-not-united-practice-boycott

Derp

[smootness]

These are not just students. You do understand how close Ferguson is right? This is not being carried out just by students. Where did concerned students 1950 come from? Where did they get the organization? Come on. We all know that young people like a good cause to fight authority. You did it, I did it, etc...

So then why are we up in arms about it? Because I've seen everything from 'this is akin to Mao's struggle sessions' to 'these people are just looking to advance themselves'.

If it's just something that naturally comes with a graduation into adulthood, then what, exactly, is the big deal?

Again, just because they've made 'demands' doesn't mean any of those demands will be met.

[Taog Redloh]

The fact that every single Missouri player (both black and white, liberal and conservative, rich and poor, etc.), every single Missouri coach (both black and white, liberal and conservative, etc.), the AD, a big chunk of the student body from all backgrounds, much of the faculty and university administration, the governor of Missouri, and prominent Missouri politicians in BOTH parties are united on this should be a clue that that isn't just a few morons having a bitchfit over nothing, shouldn't it?
FARRRRRRRRT (http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/14087454/missouri-tigers-player-says-team-not-united-practice-boycott)

[Irondawg]

Part of my issue with groups like this is that they do make such unrealistic and extreme demands right off the bat. But that just means they're less likely to have those demands met, it doesn't mean the university is forced to meet them.


It also makes them look unreasonable and not worth taking seriously to me. I don't think anybody on here in their right mind thinks this isn't their right and while not agreeing with them could at least understand their point of view if there is a real issue at work here.

But the list of demands is just ridiculous and when it's not backed up by a series of serious incidents that are under the control of the administration it makes it all just look like a ridiculous circus show. The truth is in the end a lot of these groups create more division among people all the while of holding up a banner of equality.

I keep thinking there is more to this story, but the more that comes out the more ridiculous it all looks from the outside.

[smootness]

The Mizzou team isn't as united as they tried to portray:

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/14087454/missouri-tigers-player-says-team-not-united-practice-boycott

Derp

Ok, then this is likely going nowhere. Again, what's the big deal? If there is widespread support, there's probably an issue there, and it has a chance to produce change. If there is not widespread support, there's probably nothing there, and it probably won't produce anything.

[Coach007]

This is kind of my point on some of it, but you said it better than I did.

Yeah, but it's not true.

1- Every single player and coach, and AD... Who wants a split locker room and destroyed football program? That was a PR move, plain and simple.

2- a big chunk? You have noway of knowing that. But again, Students love a great cause that stands up to authority.

3- No no.. SHOW me where "much" of the faculty..etc... An english department voted a no confidence in LOFTIN! Not the president. And loftin is the one that responded after the second issue with MANDATORY classes by faculty, students...everybody.

4- Elected officials have NOT come out for this guy to resign. They have not come out and stated these DEMANDS are great. What they have said is the PRESIDENT will work on the situation.

You way over stated everything

[smootness]

It also makes them look unreasonable and not worth taking seriously to me. I don't think anybody on here in their right mind thinks this isn't their right and while not agreeing with them could at least understand their point of view if there is a real issue at work here.

But the list of demands is just ridiculous and when it's not backed up by a series of serious incidents that are under the control of the administration it makes it all just look like a ridiculous circus show. The truth is in the end a lot of these groups create more division among people all the while of holding up a banner of equality.

I keep thinking there is more to this story, but the more that comes out the more ridiculous it all looks from the outside.

I mostly agree...but if these are really ridiculous demands, then it's probably going nowhere. There were multiple people in this thread suggesting this was mob rule and questioning why these students got to decide whether or not the president kept his job.

The answer: they don't.

[AlmostPositive]

"Half the team is pissed...if we were 9-0 this wouldn't be happening."

Just count on Leftists lying about this every day. It's from the Alinsky playbook. Demonize and ridicule...the ends justify the means.

The players are NOT united... there hasn't been a "slew" of racists events. I'd bet a million dollars that at least a portion of the events are false flag incidents.

[smootness]

Yeah, but it's not true.

1- Every single player and coach, and AD... Who wants a split locker room and destroyed football program? That was a PR move, plain and simple.

2- a big chunk? You have noway of knowing that. But again, Students love a great cause that stands up to authority.

3- No no.. SHOW me where "much" of the faculty..etc... An english department voted a no confidence in LOFTIN! Not the president. And loftin is the one that responded after the second issue with MANDATORY classes by faculty, students...everybody.

4- Elected officials have NOT come out for this guy to resign. They have not come out and stated these DEMANDS are great. What they have said is the PRESIDENT will work on the situation.

You way over stated everything


This is where I hide behind Quaoarsking since he's the one who actually said it haha.

Only kidding. But my main point was that their ability to actually produce results will likely be directly related to how legitimate their claims are and how much support they have.

So if they don't have as much support as portrayed, that's fine. My point still stands, and they probably won't get anything done. So I ask again, why in the world are we making this out to be mob rule and students deciding the president will be fired?

[Quaoarsking]

The Mizzou team isn't as united as they tried to portray:

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/14087454/missouri-tigers-player-says-team-not-united-practice-boycott

Derp

Hmmm. Well we'll see where this all goes. If the players aren't really behind this, then Pinkel and the AD are going to look really silly for saying they are.

[smootness]

On one hand I've been told this isn't a vote and shouldn't be dependent on how much support they have; but then I've also been told they don't have that much support, therefore their claims are illegitimate.

I'm confused.

[Taog Redloh]

Ok, then this is likely going nowhere. Again, what's the big deal? If there is widespread support, there's probably an issue there, and it has a chance to produce change. If there is not widespread support, there's probably nothing there, and it probably won't produce anything.
I'll tell you why (good post in that other off-shoot of the thread, I can't argue with any of it).

The point is that this president is automatically guilty by left-leaning people, based on some demands by left-leaning voters (I think we can assume that). The assumptions being made here are mainly by the so-called liberals. Decisions are made before any evidence is put down and examined. The left-leaning media jumps the gun (proven again by them saying they are united, when they weren't) because chaos/drama sells. People's minds get influenced before the verdict is revealed, and they stay that way, even if there is an acquittal or no wrongdoing found (Darren Wilson ring a bell?). THAT is the reason people are sick of this stuff.

Can they protest? Sure. But why are people listening to this goofball crap?? The evidence isn't holding up. And why are they allowed to disturb the peace and call for people's livelihood? People like Quaorsking made up their mind long, long ago.

[Coach007]

So then why are we up in arms about it? Because I've seen everything from 'this is akin to Mao's struggle sessions' to 'these people are just looking to advance themselves'.

If it's just something that naturally comes with a graduation into adulthood, then what, exactly, is the big deal?

Again, just because they've made 'demands' doesn't mean any of those demands will be met.

The reason people are up in arms about it is the same reason Donald Trump leads the polls and why UK has a new GOV. At some point, people say "I have had enough". Most of this nation is at that point. I have never seen this much division in my life time.

Some times... I wish I was a kid again.. just playing with my friends.....

[smootness]

Hmmm. Well we'll see where this all goes. If the players aren't really behind this, then Pinkel and the AD are going to look really silly for saying they are.

Yep, and there will be consequences for those who tried to make demands. So the system will again work itself out. Because we live in America, not in communist China.

[Irondawg]

I mostly agree...but if these are really ridiculous demands, then it's probably going nowhere. There were multiple people in this thread suggesting this was mob rule and questioning why these students got to decide whether or not the president kept his job.

The answer: they don't.

Let's just say I've started to lose faith in common sense ruling the day based on all the crap I've seen happen the last few years. And when the media gets involved lately the truth gets harder to find as sensationalism gets a lot more attention than boring facts.

[Taog Redloh]

"Half the team is pissed...if we were 9-0 this wouldn't be happening."

Just count on Leftists lying about this every day. It's from the Alinsky playbook. Demonize and ridicule...the ends justify the means.

The players are NOT united... there hasn't been a "slew" of racists events. I'd bet a million dollars that at least a portion of the events are false flag incidents.
....if not completely fabricated.

[AlmostPositive]

College staff and students are terrified of being accused of racism. They know the tactics that will be used against them if they don't toe the party line. If you don't understand this, you don't know much about the current state of academia and identity politics.

[smootness]

I'll tell you why (good post in that other off-shoot of the thread, I can't argue with any of it).

The point is that this president is automatically guilty by left-leaning people, based on some demands by left-leaning voters (I think we can assume that). The assumptions being made here are mainly by the so-called liberals. Decisions are made before any evidence is put down and examined. The left-leaning media jumps the gun (proven again by them saying they are united, when they weren't) because chaos/drama sells. People's minds get influenced before the verdict is revealed, and they stay that way, even if there is an acquittal or no wrongdoing found (Darren Wilson ring a bell?). THAT is the reason people are sick of this stuff.

Can they protest? Sure. But why are people listening to this goofball crap?? The evidence isn't holding up. And why are they allowed to disturb the peace and call for people's livelihood? People like Quaorsking made up their mind long, long ago.

Some fair points. But the media is primarily looking for a story, so they will always embellish it.

I said from the beginning we didn't have all the facts, and that certainly applied to me. Perhaps the president has done more than I thought he had, and perhaps this is just a small group of students looking for a cause. If that's the case, it will almost certainly go nowhere regardless of what the media thinks or says.

[Coach007]

This is where I hide behind Quaoarsking since he's the one who actually said it haha.

Only kidding. But my main point was that their ability to actually produce results will likely be directly related to how legitimate their claims are and how much support they have.

So if they don't have as much support as portrayed, that's fine. My point still stands, and they probably won't get anything done. So I ask again, why in the world are we making this out to be mob rule and students deciding the president will be fired?

Oh no.. this isn't going away. There will be a lot of people flood to that campus. I'm talking people that have nothing to do with Mizzou

[SDDawg]

I have not seen where the faculty is behind his removal. Can you give details?

The faculty is not solely focused with the racial issues, there are other broader leadership concerns with Wolfe. That's one of the problems here: people are reading one article that refers to race and the football team and getting all riled up without understanding the broader issues in play. A consensus is building about Wolfe needing to resign because there is no confidence in him to lead Mizzou based on multiple issues. This didn't all blow up over a couple racial slurs (which would still be unacceptable btw), it's much worse than that. Here are multiple articles outlining the concerns, including faculty concerns with Wolfe and Chancellor Loftin:

- http://heavy.com/news/2015/11/tim-wolfe-missouri-mizzou-president-racism-racist-football-team-boycott-salary-wife-family-resign-fired-jonathan-butler-student-hunger-strike-bio-age-photos/ (Check out the video where Wolfe comments on systematic oppression)

- http://www.columbiamissourian.com/news/higher_education/the-short-controversial-life-so-far-of-mu-s-leader/article_8c675bb2-7911-11e5-a26c-374ecfaa9d5d.html

- http://m.columbiatribune.com/opinion/the_tribunes_view/loftin/article_bdd820f9-d6c8-5269-8d21-a05881c941d5.html?_dc=776917531853.5417

- http://www.columbiamissourian.com/news/higher_education/update-missouri-lawmakers-call-for-um-system-president-tim-wolfe/article_9da836a4-8658-11e5-a2f8-4327d145fdfd.html#.VkAf0d798TY.twitter

The faculty has not united behind the desire to remove Wolfe at this hour, but there is momentum building there and a lot of concerns building. I expect Wolfe to be gone by Tuesday now that the Governor and a US Senator have weighed in.

[Quaoarsking]

I'll tell you why (good post in that other off-shoot of the thread, I can't argue with any of it).

The point is that this president is automatically guilty by left-leaning people, based on some demands by left-leaning voters (I think we can assume that). The assumptions being made here are mainly by the so-called liberals. Decisions are made before any evidence is put down and examined. The left-leaning media jumps the gun (proven again by them saying they are united, when they weren't) because chaos/drama sells. People's minds get influenced before the verdict is revealed, and they stay that way, even if there is an acquittal or no wrongdoing found (Darren Wilson ring a bell?). THAT is the reason people are sick of this stuff.

Can they protest? Sure. But why are people listening to this goofball crap?? The evidence isn't holding up. And why are they allowed to disturb the peace and call for people's livelihood? People like Quaorsking made up their mind long, long ago.
What? I never even said I supported all of their "demands." I still haven't found enough information about the situation up there to form a valid opinion on it. All I've said is that I support their right to protest and don't think they should have to be opinionless automatons just because they're on scholarship.

I also stated that the degree of unitedness suggests validity to their cause, although if its not as united as portrayed (and I don't necessarily think that one anonymous claim by one player trumps official statements from the coach and AD, but I guess it at least raises the possibility), that observation may not be valid.

[smootness]

The reason people are up in arms about it is the same reason Donald Trump leads the polls and why UK has a new GOV. At some point, people say "I have had enough". Most of this nation is at that point. I have never seen this much division in my life time.

Some times... I wish I was a kid again.. just playing with my friends.....

If this is the case, though, then ultimately these things will be counterproductive and will actually lead to the kind of reactions you support.

I prefer to believe that most people have enough intelligence and common sense to understand they shouldn't believe everything they read and to approach most topics with some caution. Assuming this, unreasonable demands by groups like this and sensationalism by the media will work to their detriment and will still be beneficial ultimately.

The media will always try to find a story, even if it's a protest consisting of 2 people.

[THE Bruce Dickinson]

The Mizzou team isn't as united as they tried to portray:

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/14087454/missouri-tigers-player-says-team-not-united-practice-boycott

Derp

Whoa whoa whoa don't let facts get in the way of how you feel inside *

[smootness]

College staff and students are terrified of being accused of racism. They know the tactics that will be used against them if they don't toe the party line. If you don't understand this, you don't know much about the current state of academia and identity politics.

I agree. They're also terrified of being accused of sexism, or ageism, or whatever the heck else somebody wants to get offended by.

But that doesn't mean there aren't real issues at times that need to be addressed.

[SDDawg]

Whoa whoa whoa don't let facts get in the way of how you feel inside *

I'm giving the players and coaches in the pictures posted and those that issued statements on the record the benefit of the doubt (since they are on the record) over an anonymous player.

[Coach007]

The faculty is not solely focused with the racial issues, there are other broader leadership concerns with Wolfe. That's one of the problems here: people are reading one article that refers to race and the football team and getting all riled up without understanding the broader issues in play. A consensus is building about Wolfe needing to resign because there is no confidence in him to lead Mizzou based on multiple issues. This didn't all blow up over a couple racial slurs (which would still be unacceptable btw), it's much worse than that. Here are multiple articles outlining the concerns, including faculty concerns with Wolfe and Chancellor Loftin:

- http://heavy.com/news/2015/11/tim-wolfe-missouri-mizzou-president-racism-racist-football-team-boycott-salary-wife-family-resign-fired-jonathan-butler-student-hunger-strike-bio-age-photos/ (Check out the video where Wolfe comments on systematic oppression)

- http://www.columbiamissourian.com/news/higher_education/the-short-controversial-life-so-far-of-mu-s-leader/article_8c675bb2-7911-11e5-a26c-374ecfaa9d5d.html

- http://m.columbiatribune.com/opinion/the_tribunes_view/loftin/article_bdd820f9-d6c8-5269-8d21-a05881c941d5.html?_dc=776917531853.5417

- http://www.columbiamissourian.com/news/higher_education/update-missouri-lawmakers-call-for-um-system-president-tim-wolfe/article_9da836a4-8658-11e5-a2f8-4327d145fdfd.html#.VkAf0d798TY.twitter

The faculty has not united behind the desire to remove Wolfe at this hour, but there is momentum building there and a lot of concerns building. I expect Wolfe to be gone by Tuesday now that the Governor and a US Senator have weighed in.

ANd that same paper laid out the time line. Loftin, 3 days after the second event, issued mandatory online classes for everybody. The whole issue with the football player is about racial issues. The only part of MIZZOU faculty that has been vocal is the english department. That's all.

[smootness]

I'm giving the players and coaches in the pictures posted and those that issued statements on the record the benefit of the doubt (since they are on the record) over an anonymous player.

I disagree with this. It's pretty obvious that in a case like this it's much easier to be on-record in support of the boycott than against it. Because of what was said earlier - the worst thing you can be accused of is being a racist or of being against racial reforms. It would take a brave soul to go on record against these protests. There's really no danger of being in support of them.

[SDDawg]

ANd that same paper laid out the time line. Loftin, 3 days after the second event, issued mandatory online classes for everybody. The whole issue with the football player is about racial issues. The only part of MIZZOU faculty that has been vocal is the english department. That's all.

These are contributing factors the lack of confidence in Wolfe that you're seeing. The faculty will be moving on this soon, I promise you. As people "on the ground" understand, there is a lot more than racial incidents happening at Mizzou that are leading to the backlash against Wolfe. Much of this has happened in the past 90 days so the issues have a compounding effect.

[AlmostPositive]

We're going to get a playbook on how a University destroys its own athletic programs. I hope the right lessons will be learned by other schools.

[Coach007]

I agree. They're also terrified of being accused of sexism, or ageism, or whatever the heck else somebody wants to get offended by.

But that doesn't mean there aren't real issues at times that need to be addressed.

Agreed.

[SDDawg]

I disagree with this. It's pretty obvious that in a case like this it's much easier to be on-record in support of the boycott than against it. Because of what was said earlier - the worst thing you can be accused of is being a racist or of being against racial reforms. It would take a brave soul to go on record against these protests. There's really no danger of being in support of them.

If half the team and coaches are against it, but only one anonymous player is speaking out... why should we give that voice more weight than the people that are on the record? I'm not saying there is no truth to it, I'm sure there is some, but that point of view is likely grossly exaggerated (since it is not subject to further examination).

[Coach007]

These are contributing factors the lack of confidence in Wolfe that you're seeing. The faculty will be moving on this soon, I promise you. As people "on the ground" understand, there is a lot more than racial incidents happening at Mizzou that are leading to the backlash against Wolfe. Much of this has happened in the past 90 days so the issues have a compounding effect.

No... This is being played out as a racial issue. Not 1 single person in this thread, nor ESPN, NOR uSAToday..etc believes anything else. There has not been one word about anything else by the national media.

[Coach007]

If half the team and coaches are against it, but only one anonymous player is speaking out... why should we give that voice more weight than the people that are on the record? I'm not saying there is no truth to it, I'm sure there is some, but that point of view is likely grossly exaggerated (since it is not subject to further examination).

You dont think that the locker room wont come into play now that espn has put the story out?

[smootness]

If half the team and coaches are against it, but only one anonymous player is speaking out... why should we give that voice more weight than the people that are on the record? I'm not saying there is no truth to it, I'm sure there is some, but that point of view is likely grossly exaggerated (since it is not subject to further examination).

I'm not saying we should give it more weight. I'm not assuming half the team is against it just because an anonymous player said it. But I do believe the anonymous player is against it, and I'm sure there are probably others as well.

Basically, that report gives me pause when assuming the whole team is behind it, that's all.

[THE Bruce Dickinson]

Do you think this player did not go on record out of fear of being called a racist? I certainly do.

In this world a person with a differing view from the equality crowd is a racist. I thought these groups were supposed to be tolerant?

And before you say it I will go ahead and address it. This player didn't go anonymous out of fear of dividing the team because 30 other players already have done that. You know...the ones who have gone on record and posed for pictures

[SDDawg]

No... This is being played out as a racial issue. Not 1 single person in this thread, nor ESPN, NOR uSAToday..etc believes anything else. There has not been one word about anything else by the national media.

Bud, with all respect you want a racial issue so you can take a stand against it. I'm honestly appalled at our fans on this issue... people that don't live (and never have) in the state of Missouri, have never set foot on the campus, have never voted or paid a dollar in taxes in the state are SO SURE they're right about something they don't understand at all and COMLETELY DISMISS the people living in the situation, dealing with the facts and making their own judgments about how to express themselves.

Honestly, look at yourselves in the mirror and think about this for a minute. How can you be so sure you're right about something you truly don't understand at all? The answer is pretty obvious...

And regarding no word in the national media, you're right if you're reading ESPN. The Missouri papers are laying out the broader issues re: lack of confidence in his leadership and while race is the hot button issue, it's clearly not the only one. The details are well documented...

[Coach007]

Guys, I'm out of this thread for awhile. I hate to see our nation like this. It's not just this event, it's the nation as a whole. I seriously have never seen it so bad.

[Quaoarsking]

FWIW there are (Republican) politicians calling for the President's removal: http://www.kansascity.com/news/local/news-columns-blogs/the-buzz/article43682574.html

[AlmostPositive]

Pinkel is willing to lie...we know that now. That bodes poorly for the outcome here. Not one college student or staff will be willing to buck the liberal orthodoxy on this. They'll cave, they'll lie, they live with some cognitive dissonance and try to maintain a brave (false) front..

[Coach007]

Bud, with all respect you want a racial issue so you can take a stand against it. I'm honestly appalled at our fans on this issue... people that don't live (and never have) in the state of Missouri, have never set foot on the campus, have never voted or paid a dollar in taxes in the state are SO SURE they're right about something they don't understand at all and COMLETELY DISMISS the people living in the situation, dealing with the facts and making their own judgments about how to express themselves.

Honestly, look at yourselves in the mirror and think about this for a minute. How can you be so sure you're right about something you truly don't understand at all? The answer is pretty obvious...

And regarding no word in the national media, you're right if you're reading ESPN. The Missouri papers are laying out the broader issues re: lack of confidence in his leadership and while race is the hot button issue, it's clearly not the only one. The details are well documented...

Randy, Who wants a racial issue? What an ignorant thing to say. Nobody I know of wants a racial issue, but what's being played out right now IS a racial issue. You will not find a single person that will honestly say that what they are reading isnt about race! And that's what we are talking about.... what's being reported.

You mean the paper you cited? http://www.columbiamissourian.com/news/higher_education/racial-climate-at-mu-a-timeline-of-incidents-to-date/article_0c96f986-84c6-11e5-a38f-2bd0aab0bf74.html

Come on. You are now back peddling.

And for the record... I lived a MAJOR part of my life in Mo.... My WIFE still has her home there. So let's not do this....

[PendingTransaction]

Randy, this is about race. And one race is getting out of its place!

[Quaoarsking]

The only part of MIZZOU faculty that has been vocal is the english department. That's all.

The Political Science department supports the protests: https://twitter.com/MizzouPoliSci/status/663510837173157888
The Gender Studies department supports the protests: https://twitter.com/mizzouwgst/status/663202295358754816
The Religion department supports the protests: https://twitter.com/MizzouRelSt/status/663391972464332800
There may be (and probably are) others. I just found these in a couple minutes of Twitter browsing.

And minority faculty from across many departments have been vocal:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CTVu-9pUsAA8TfD.jpg

[TimberBeast]

These 'students' are dysfunctional, unruly and want nothing more than to create chaos. And they reason they do that, is because they think they will advance themselves through the chaos.

They need to be stopped. Protests are fine, but stopping parades (disturbing the peace) and the like need to be handled swiftly. They are NOT being discriminated against by this president. It's freaking unbelievable that reasonable humans would give these morons the time of day.

Exactly, and they learned it from the bullshit leniency that has been given to the other "protester" groups that have been terrorizing US cities over the last couple years.

[Coach007]

The Political Science department supports the protests: https://twitter.com/MizzouPoliSci/status/663510837173157888
The Gender Studies department supports the protests: https://twitter.com/mizzouwgst/status/663202295358754816
The Religion department supports the protests: https://twitter.com/MizzouRelSt/status/663391972464332800
There may be (and probably are) others. I just found these in a couple minutes of Twitter browsing.

And minority faculty from across many departments have been vocal:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CTVu-9pUsAA8TfD.jpg

We were talking about the removal of the president. What you just posted was not a letter calling for the removal of Wolfe or Loftin. This is also not a "Vote of no confidence"

[Quaoarsking]

We were talking about the removal of the president. What you just posted was not a letter calling for the removal of Wolfe or Loftin. This is also not a "Vote of no confidence"

I think you're splitting hairs here. If a department or professor is explicitly endorsing the protests, they are supporting the goals of the protesters.


ETA: The Communication Department too: https://twitter.com/MizzouComm/status/663444100172017664

[MagicDawg]

"Institutionalized racism" and "Gravely concerned with students' ability to succeed and thrive at this institution" are pretty significant accusations - the "oppressive environment" too. Extraordinary claims should require extraordinary proof in most situations, shouldn't they? I was on campus there about a year ago and saw a variety of students of all imaginable backgrounds going about their business and interacting across racial and ethnic lines without any apparent difficulties. The oppressive environment apparently doesn't encompass everyone.

Other than some occasional rednecks spouting ignorant blather that most other people are apparently perfectly able to identify as such, is there some other documentation of what makes UMissouri so oppressive? Because I apparently can't trust my own lying eyes in this matter.

Also - seems like this thread should go to the politics forum.

[AlmostPositive]

I have more regard for the integrity and common sense of the average hog farmer than I do for the typical university professor. Missouri officials are almost guaranteed to mishandle this fustercluck and make things worse than they were before

This is sort of shit we're dealing with this days:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IEFD_JVYd0

[smootness]

I have more regard for the integrity and common sense of the average hog farmer than I do for the typical university professor. Missouri officials are almost guaranteed to mishandle this fustercluck and make things worse than they were before

This is sort of shit we're dealing with this days:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IEFD_JVYd0

She seems unhinged...but do you know what she was upset about?

[Quaoarsking]

This doesn't necessarily prove anything, but (white) Missouri player Michael Scherer says the entire team is united and that the mystery source isn't reliable:

"Just because everyone wasn't in the picture doesn't mean that we don't all stand together as a family. Whoever is speaking against our Unity as a family and team is not apart of the same family that I am. by that I am saying that I don't believe that anyone in our locker room would ever say that and the "mystery informant" isn't reliable."
https://twitter.com/Mike_Scherer38/status/663568943710273536
https://twitter.com/Mike_Scherer38/status/663569038690267136
https://twitter.com/Mike_Scherer38/status/663571080875917312

Again, doesn't prove that the team is united. In fact, I would be shocked if there wasn't at least 1 player who didn't agree and was just going along with it out of perceived peer pressure. But it does give evidence that that the mystery man probably wasn't speaking on very many people's behalf.

Perhaps people who wanted to discount the "anonymous source" were all too eager to believe it without question because it's what they wanted to hear? In fairness, the reverse is probably true too.

ETA Scherer is a starting LB and is second on the team in tackles.

[AlmostPositive]

She was upset about the professor's suggestion to not let halloween costumes give her a case of the vapors.

But I don't really give a shit what she's bothered about..she's a hypocritical twenty-year-old nitwit who knows almost nothing about life. How happy would you be to let her and twenty of her closest friends dictate policy for your school?

When I say dictate, I mean that in the normal figurative sense. She had the professor fully cowed. We know why. You can insult and shout and harass and intimidate if you're in the right group. But woe betide you if it gets you sideways with the PCbots.

[MagicDawg]

She seems unhinged...but do you know what she was upset about?

"The video below has been making the rounds on the internet. It shows a young woman screaming in the face of Yale professor Nicholas Christakis about the alleged plight of minority students. Why the hysterical shrieking? Because the professor?s wife (a Yale lecturer) had the audacity to write an email to students at Silliman College, one of Yale?s so-called ?residential colleges,? questioning excessive sensitivity over Halloween costumes."

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/426765/video-what-social-justice-warrior-looks-david-french

[Coach007]

Nice article http://www.foxsports.com/college-football/outkick-the-coverage/mizzou-player-strike-raises-fascinating-questions-110815

Why are Mizzou players on strike?

Because of two instances of racial slurs on campus, a poop swastika -- seriously, it's like "South Park" is writing a campus satire -- graduate student health issues, and a lack of action from University of Missouri president Tim Wolfe. Why Wolfe? Because presumably it is now the university president's job to make sure that no one ever says anything offensive to anyone on campus via spoken or written word, or poop hate symbols. (I haven't Googled it, but couldn't the poop swastika actually be a meta commentary ridiculing the swastika? Like, I'm sure that has been featured in a Brooklyn art show at some point in the past ten years. Think about it, if someone made a poop Alabama logo at Auburn, would you immediately think it was endorsing Alabama? Or the exact opposite? But I digress).


Anyway, activists are demanding that Wolfe step down after announcing his white privilege in a public forum. (Isn't announcing your white privilege at a public forum just more evidence of white privilege? Why are people there to see you denounce your white privilege? Because you have the power to call a press conference thanks to your white privilege. By the way, if I were a rapper, I would totally name myself "White Privilege." Game. Over.)

So there's a hunger strike and some people camping out and now the Missouri football team has decided it won't play unless the president steps down.

[AlmostPositive]

Personally, I think anyone who believes that all 80 players are happy to cancel games over politics is a fool. Many are just falling in line with the group because they are afraid of the consequences otherwise..

[Coach007]

These days it's very popular to protest things that everyone is already opposed to. ("Bro, your micro aggressions against my anti-slavery petition will not stand.") But the protest really takes off when you find a villain and charge him with the root cause of the issues at hand. Enter President Wolfe, an aloof middle-aged white man who is the perfect villain for a campus crusade against racism. Even if, you know, he isn't racist or involved in any of the actions on campus that people are protesting.

So you've got your villain, what comes next?

You demand his firing.

Because it's not a real bona fide campus protest unless someone gets fired. The mob needs a head to parade around. "You know how much we fought racism at Mizzou? We replaced one middle-aged white dude with another middle aged white dude. Eracism, bitch!"

[Irondawg]

Now we're starting to go off the deep end here. The President may well be an arrogant a-hole that can't lead. But while some people are saying it's far from a race issue, almost everything coming out is tied to race.

Read the intro to that letter. Now with an open mind and most of you having spent time on a major university in what is considered the most racist state in the Union, can you read that statement with a straight face and not call utter BS on a lot of it? "Oppressive environment", grave concerns over ability to thrive? Some of these department letters are almost comical.

To quote Chris Carter "C'MON MAN" - I absolutely refuse to believe most of that crap.

It's out of hand and people are just dogpiling on one way or another. As other posters have said some are dogpiling to to be part of cause and show of force, others are piling on to show "they aren't racist". The fact that certain groups are supporting the protest doesn't lead me to believe that the cause is any more right or wrong because it's groups I expect to jump on whatever bandwagon makes them look the best in any situation.

[Irondawg]

And let's just ask the obvious question - how does any of this solve a problem?

Let's say Wolfe resigns or is kicked out as there is probably a 1% chance he survives at this point - what kind of institutional change (religion dept. twitter) have you created? Is the campus suddenly safer? Do racial slurs suddently go away? Did an oppression end? Can Mr. Head walk around campus feeling safer knowing that the next time he has an issue the new president will issue a strongly worded e-mail denouncing (insert offense)?

I guess a kid won't die of starvation but that's about the only real benefit I see at this point.

[Blackout]

Hmmm. Well we'll see where this all goes. If the players aren't really behind this, then Pinkel and the AD are going to look really silly for saying they are.

Maybe you shouldn't spread false propaganda as fact

Once again hysteria gets you guys riled up and bought in and then the truth comes out forcing you to go back into your hole until the next propagandised story comes out. Another day in the life of the Drive-by Media. What a great name for them.

[Maroonandwhite]

Maybe you shouldn't spread false propaganda as fact

Once again hysteria gets you guys riled up and bought in and then the truth comes out forcing you to go back into your hole until the next propagandised story comes out. Another day in the life of the Drive-by Media. What a great name for them.

I wonder how long it takes Wright Thompson to get his seer sucker gear on and head back to Columbia for his next 30 for 30? You know ESPN is already on it.

[Blackout]

I wonder how long it takes Wright Thompson to get his seer sucker gear on and head back to Columbia for his next 30 for 30? You know ESPN is already on it.

https://www.phideltatheta.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/WrightThompson-320x320.jpg

A huge portion of the media are alumni. They all are having wet dreams about this. They don't even have to appear objective because they have a personal investment.

As the great Terrell Owens said, "Get your popcorn ready cause it gone be a show"

[shannondawg]

From all I can glean, someone painted a swasticka on a dorm wall. I have always been of the opinion that these were to intimidate Jews, rather than blacks.

Anyway, I just wrote my good friend that is a Mizzou booster to get the low down, as I just don't trust the media on something like this. His condensed view of this is, its all a piece of crap created by a few minor incidents that all blown out of proportion.

He doesn't blame Pinkel, as he would never be able to recruit high value players in the future.

I for one would like to see a video of the presidents car actually hitting a protester, without seeing one, I would bet a dollar that it was more like a nudge than a hit.

I saw in earlier posts that they were complaining about an on campus abortion clinic, actually it was the University resolving its involvement with the planned parenthood clinic, not contributing anymore funds.

Another thing I would like see is how much weight Mr Butler has lost before I start worrying about his welfare.

A lot of you are probably too young to remember the farmers strike back in the day, they were driving their tractors all the way to DC until it became planting time.

How is the name change for the Redskins working out?

I still say its our flag and we should honor it, and if we get another, we should honor it. I applaud our president on taking a stand. (and as long as we are laying it all out, I really didn't think he had the balls to do it) But thats just me talking.

[Blackout]

From all I can glean, someone painted a swasticka on a dorm wall.

These events are 98% done as false flags. Only our Ole Miss friends have a recent event (statue) done differently

[Quaoarsking]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/missouri-protest-is-a-sign-of-players--involvement-as-students--and-that-s-good-021854997.html

As usual, Dan Wetzel gets it. He doesn't knee-jerk take either "side" but supports the players' right to protest if that's what's important to them.

[starkvegasdawg]

From all I can glean, someone painted a swasticka on a dorm wall. I have always been of the opinion that these were to intimidate Jews, rather than blacks.

Anyway, I just wrote my good friend that is a Mizzou booster to get the low down, as I just don't trust the media on something like this.

I read something this morning that a couple of blacks had some white kids drive by and yell racial slurs at them. One of them, per the article, was drunk. Also in the article the president was asked after a speaking engagement his thoughts on systemic oppression and he came back saying that "Systematic oppression is because you don’t believe that you have the equal opportunity for success —"

So evidently, in the eyes of these groups and football players a college president should resign because a couple white kids yelled a slur as they drove by and this one comment.

[RougeDawg]

"Half the team is pissed...if we were 9-0 this wouldn't be happening."

Just count on Leftists lying about this every day. It's from the Alinsky playbook. Demonize and ridicule...the ends justify the means.

The players are NOT united... there hasn't been a "slew" of racists events. I'd bet a million dollars that at least a portion of the events are false flag incidents.

Nice to know someone else knows the root cause of what is happening across the nation. Hell, one guy got elected president twice by using these tactics. They do work because the general public is ignorant and passive.

[Blackout]

The increased calls for speech codes and punishing speech is a bad trend. Freedom of speech, even hateful speech, is a requirement of a free society. There is only one side that looks to shut down all opposition these days.