If we're so hopelessly poor that it doesn't matter who our coach is...

[Quaoarsking]

Then why does everyone who says this so adamantly and angrily defend him?

After all, if it doesn't matter either way, why not make the fanbase happy?

[confucius say]

That's a false narrative.
Hire the right guy and everything will fall into place (that doesn't mean make a playoff, it just means be solid to good).
Lebby gets one more year to see if he is the guy.

[DownwardDawg]

That's a false narrative.
Hire the right guy and everything will fall into place (that doesn't mean make a playoff, it just means be solid to good).
Lebby gets one more year to see if he is the guy.

He's not the guy. He looks miserable. If we somehow buy him enough talent to win 7 games next year, he's jumping on the first offer he gets. We hate him, he hates us. It's over.

[msstate7]

He's not the guy. He looks miserable. If we somehow buy him enough talent to win 7 games next year, he's jumping on the first offer he gets. We hate him, he hates us. It's over.

I hate him more

[confucius say]

Not sure why anybody would hate him. That's wild.

If he goes 7-5 next year, he should get support, not hate. That would mean he's improved the win total every year and has made changes to the staff that are working.

[parabrave]

Not only is he not that guy but tell me who on his coaching staff is. And since this is his 2nd portal does anyone any confidence in properly evaluating players. I mean the only 3 guys that he got who were productive were Thompson and Evans and Jones. Thats it.

[AROB44]

"We hate him, he hates us."

That's a pretty broad statement. How do you know this for sure? Or is it just your opinion?

[Todd4State]

Here's the thing. We need to improve our NIL regardless of who the coach is.

That is NOT a defense of Lebby. It is wanting to help MSU football get better regardless of WHO the coach is. Do not confuse the two.

If Lebby sucks and isn't the guy like you think it wouldn't matter if we gave more money. But it would help us in hiring the next guy who can take advantage of the money. Coaching prospects are looking at how much NIL resources they have available. They're looking at the staff structure to see if it's in place so they can just bring over their scouting dept because otherwise they have to build everything.

[Todd4State]

MSU sabotaging a coach hurts MSU.

[confucius say]

We will get a lot more money flowing in if we hire the right guy. People are more likely to give to a winner. Or at least someone they believe in.

Indiana is a good example.

[DownwardDawg]

"We hate him, he hates us."

That's a pretty broad statement. How do you know this for sure? Or is it just your opinion?
100% opinion. But it's based on talking to people and reading several boards and watching Lebby.
You can't take what I or anyone else posts so literally. I do not hate Lebby at all. I want him to win. But he sucks. He's a terrible coach. Fans are emotional. They tell you real quick that they "can't stand" Lebby. And when you see him on the sidelines, he looks checked out. He looks ready to go.

[Todd4State]

We will get a lot more money flowing in if we hire the right guy. People are more likely to give to a winner. Or at least someone they believe in.

Indiana is a good example.

Sure but that doesn't mean don't give in the meantime.

I don't think we get O'Connor if we completely stopped supporting baseball.

We have to be able to set ourselves up for success to get a winner. Because winners aren't going to go somewhere that they aren't set up to succeed.

[THE Bruce Dickinson]

I was semi enthusiastic about Lebby early in the season.

I don't personally hate him and thinks he does a decent job at motivating the team and getting a lot out of players that others do not expect a lot out of.

However.

He personally cost us 3 games this year with his idiotic decision making in the Tennessee, Florida, and Texas games. I see no signs that he regrets anything he called and that has made me turn on him. He's not smart enough to be the coach of this team.

[Todd4State]

I was semi enthusiastic about Lebby early in the season.

I don't personally hate him and thinks he does a decent job at motivating the team and getting a lot out of players that others do not expect a lot out of.

However.

He personally cost us 3 games this year with his idiotic decision making in the Tennessee, Florida, and Texas games. I see no signs that he regrets anything he called and that has made me turn on him. He's not smart enough to be the coach of this team.

We beat Tennessee if our offensive line doesn't whiff and Shapen gets sacked. We tried to run the clock out against Texas and couldn't because of our offensive line. And we executed poorly on punt coverage.

Those issues are corrected with better talent.

[Quaoarsking]

We beat Tennessee if our offensive line doesn't whiff and Shapen gets sacked. We tried to run the clock out against Texas and couldn't because of our offensive line. And we executed poorly on punt coverage.

Those issues are corrected with better talent.

We 100% did not. I counted 4 snaps with over 20 seconds left on the play clock (with the game clock running) in the last 10 minutes of the game. That's a coaching issue.

[Quaoarsking]

That's a false narrative.
Hire the right guy and everything will fall into place (that doesn't mean make a playoff, it just means be solid to good).
Lebby gets one more year to see if he is the guy.

What in the world do you think he can plausibly show next year to overcome the huge whole he himself has dug?

[Todd4State]

We 100% did not. I counted 4 snaps with over 20 seconds left on the play clock (with the game clock running) in the last 10 minutes of the game. That's a coaching issue.

I'm talking about the beginning of the fourth quarter when we had a two score lead. We tried to run clock and went three and out. Then Lebby on the drive you are referencing tried to get our offense back into rhythm and it didn't work either.

Regardless we have to be able to run the ball there, tried to do so, and were unable to do it because our offensive line couldn't get the job done.

[Quaoarsking]

Every argument in favor of Lebby takes the following form:
Hey, fuсk you! You don't know anything!
We have so little money that even schools like Wake Forest and Toledo would blow us out, and no coach will ever be able to change that, so why bother changing coaches?
Unless you are personally donating millions of dollars to buy him out all by yourself, shut the hell up!


It's nothing like Moorhead or Arnett or Lemonis. All of those coaches had their supporters (more supporters than Lebby does now, that's for sure), but it stayed civil, and the fans of those schools could at least point to something that they had accomplished as a coach as a reason to think they could get better. Lebby supporters can't point to anything, so they just go for anger and vitriol, but instead of directing that anger and vitriol at the coach who is 2-17 against P5 competition despite having had rosters that could have won 6 or 7 of those games, it's directed at the people who are tired of the losing and underachieving.

[Quaoarsking]

I'm talking about the beginning of the fourth quarter when we had a two score lead. We tried to run clock and went three and out. Then Lebby on the drive you are referencing tried to get our offense back into rhythm and it didn't work either.

Regardless we have to be able to run the ball there, tried to do so, and were unable to do it because our offensive line couldn't get the job done.

So trying to run clock for a little bit and then giving up is good enough for you? Jesus Christ, dude...

[Todd4State]

So trying to run clock for a little bit and then giving up is good enough for you? Jesus Christ, dude...

Give up? He was trying to get the offense to work again so we could run the clock out. Guess what happens if he kept doing what wasn't working. You would be saying "I can't believe all of a sudden we stopped being aggressive and started to do something that "obviously" wasn't working.

Lebby is in a no win situation with you so just enjoy the "loss".

[Todd4State]

Every argument in favor of Lebby takes the following form:
Hey, fuсk you! You don't know anything!
We have so little money that even schools like Wake Forest and Toledo would blow us out, and no coach will ever be able to change that, so why bother changing coaches?
Unless you are personally donating millions of dollars to buy him out all by yourself, shut the hell up!


It's nothing like Moorhead or Arnett or Lemonis. All of those coaches had their supporters (more supporters than Lebby does now, that's for sure), but it stayed civil, and the fans of those schools could at least point to something that they had accomplished as a coach as a reason to think they could get better. Lebby supporters can't point to anything, so they just go for anger and vitriol, but instead of directing that anger and vitriol at the coach who is 2-17 against P5 competition despite having had rosters that could have won 6 or 7 of those games, it's directed at the people who are tired of the losing and underachieving.

The thing is you don't offer anything constructive to fix it.

The people you say that are "defending" Lebby are all basically telling you how to fix it. But somehow "you just want to win and this is unacceptable" but when someone tells you to donate money to the program you get all bitchy. That's why people tell you "**** you". You really don't care. You just don't want Lebby here because of what his father in law did. That's more important to you than winning. So spare me the bullshit.

If you want someone other than Lebby that's fine. We can fire him today and I wouldn't give a shit. Hell if we brought in Dan and least we can get that out of our fans system and then Arnett would be gone. So if you want him gone go find some boosters like those dumbasses in Madison that got us in this spot to start with. Go ahead. Make it happen. I just told you how to get rid of Lebby. What a loyalist I am.**

But don't tell me that you only want to win when you aren't really willing to do what it takes to do it which is give money and you're trying to do everything you can do to hurt MSU football but you are too ignorant to realize it because you're blinded by your hate by Lebby.

[Quaoarsking]

"He had to run the hurry-up so that he could run out the clock!" Do you even hear yourself?

It's very obvious that you basically agree with all of us about Lebby, but just can't bring yourself to admit that you've been wrong for like 10 weeks ... out of the, what 1,000 weeks you've been part of the message board community? It's no big deal. No one's going to taunt you for changing your mind. It happens to all of us.

[mparkerfd20]

I hate him more
But not the most. Many of us hate him more than you.

[Quaoarsking]

The thing is you don't offer anything constructive to fix it.

...
What??

I have said repeatedly that we need to change head coaches to someone who our boosters will be more interested in funding. Nobody thinks that paying into Mississippi State football is a good investment right now. Yes, some will do it anyway because they're diehard fans, but we saw a few months ago in baseball how a coaching change can suddenly open people's pocketbooks.


You just don't want Lebby here because of what his father in law did. That's more important to you than winning. So spare me the bullshit.
I've always said that Lebby is not responsible for his creep father-in-law's actions. I've never held him responsible for that. I think Lebby's own actions during that scandal are pretty sketchy, but in a world where Chris Beard can go from beating the hell out of his wife to head coach of Ole Miss in 3 months, it's just something that fans everywhere have to make themselves OK with it.


If you want someone other than Lebby that's fine. We can fire him today and I wouldn't give a shit.
Apparently not...


But don't tell me that you only want to win when you aren't really willing to do what it takes to do it which is give money
I have donated what I can comfortably afford. I wish I were a millionaire or billionaire, but sadly I'm not. I don't know what more I can personally do, other than make it clear that the vast majority of the fanbase wants him gone.

[msstate7]

Not sure why anybody would hate him. That's wild.

If he goes 7-5 next year, he should get support, not hate. That would mean he's improved the win total every year and has made changes to the staff that are working.

Hate him being our coach. Not hate him personally. I don't know him

[Dawgology]

That's a false narrative.
Hire the right guy and everything will fall into place (that doesn't mean make a playoff, it just means be solid to good).
Lebby gets one more year to see if he is the guy.

One more year to see if he?s the guy???? Ole buddy has one one?ONE?SEC game in two years and that is in an SEC that is clearly down. Let me answer this for you with certainty. He is NOT the guy.

[Todd4State]

...
What??

I have said repeatedly that we need to change head coaches to someone who our boosters will be more interested in funding. Nobody thinks that paying into Mississippi State football is a good investment right now. Yes, some will do it anyway because they're diehard fans, but we saw a few months ago in baseball how a coaching change can suddenly open people's pocketbooks.


I've always said that Lebby is not responsible for his creep father-in-law's actions. I've never held him responsible for that. I think Lebby's own actions during that scandal are pretty sketchy, but in a world where Chris Beard can go from beating the hell out of his wife to head coach of Ole Miss in 3 months, it's just something that fans everywhere have to make themselves OK with it.


Apparently not...


I have donated what I can comfortably afford. I wish I were a millionaire or billionaire, but sadly I'm not. I don't know what more I can personally do, other than make it clear that the vast majority of the fanbase wants him gone.

With baseball the money and commitment came BEFORE we hired O'Connor.

And no it really doesn't matter to me if Lebby is our coach or not. What does matter is when idiots like you want to hurt our program though.

[Todd4State]

"He had to run the hurry-up so that he could run out the clock!" Do you even hear yourself?

It's very obvious that you basically agree with all of us about Lebby, but just can't bring yourself to admit that you've been wrong for like 10 weeks ... out of the, what 1,000 weeks you've been part of the message board community? It's no big deal. No one's going to taunt you for changing your mind. It happens to all of us.

Running the ball didn't work. Like I said. Lebby was in a no win situation and that was because of our players. No different than our fans complaining about him "leaving in KT" last night.

[Quaoarsking]

What does matter is when idiots like you want to hurt our program though.

I've spent an unhealthy amount of the last 20 years talking about Mississippi State football and other sports across multiple message boards. The notion that I "want to hurt the program" is absolutely ludicrous, and I think even you will admit that.

I have never posted anything that would be detrimental to Mississippi State, and have held back on posting my opinions many times.

[BlackSailsDawg]

Then why does everyone who says this so adamantly and angrily defend him?

After all, if it doesn't matter either way, why not make the fanbase happy?

You do not speak nor are you the fan base. You dont blame whats not at fault.

[Quaoarsking]

It's also fascinating how most Lebby fans were huge Leach Haters who wanted to fire him after 2021 and said that if he lost the Egg Bowl in 2022, he should be fired even if he was 11-1 because winning the Egg Bowl is that important ... but not a peep from any of those people after Lebby is 0-2 in Egg Bowls.

[Quaoarsking]

You do not speak nor are you the fan base. You dont blame whats not at fault.

On the issue of whether Lebby should be fired or not, I very much speak for a huge majority of the fanbase.

[BlackSailsDawg]

Not sure why anybody would hate him. That's wild.

If he goes 7-5 next year, he should get support, not hate. That would mean he's improved the win total every year and has made changes to the staff that are working.

They dont hate him. Its just the few that speak louder and often. They go to all the message boards to promote their misery.

[Coach34]

Sure but that doesn't mean don't give in the meantime.

I don't think we get O'Connor if we completely stopped supporting baseball.

We got BOC specifically because we vowed to fund the program at an even higher rate

Until we spend like an SEC team in football- we wont see the results we desire.

[Coach34]

It's also fascinating how most Lebby fans were huge Leach Haters who wanted to fire him after 2021 and said that if he lost the Egg Bowl in 2022, he should be fired even if he was 11-1 because winning the Egg Bowl is that important ... but not a peep from any of those people after Lebby is 0-2 in Egg Bowls.

I never saw anybody saying Leach should be fired.

[Quaoarsking]

I never saw anybody saying Leach should be fired.

Bull. Ѕhit.

[BlackSailsDawg]

It's also fascinating how most Lebby fans were huge Leach Haters who wanted to fire him after 2021 and said that if he lost the Egg Bowl in 2022, he should be fired even if he was 11-1 because winning the Egg Bowl is that important ... but not a peep from any of those people after Lebby is 0-2 in Egg Bowls.

I liked Leach and his system. That does not change facts.

What you are advocating for will put us on the path of Auburn.

Lebby has not had a fireable offense. We won more and competed most of the season. With a better defense, we will win more.

So buckle up butter cup, Lebby isnt going anywhere.

[BlackSailsDawg]

On the issue of whether Lebby should be fired or not, I very much speak for a huge majority of the fanbase.

No you dont. The ego on you to think you do speak for us all is laughable.

[Quaoarsking]

No you dont. The ego on you to think you do speak for us all is laughable.

You're living under a rock if you think the fanbase supports Lebby. Open your eyes. Even on this message board, it's overwhelmingly anti-Lebby, and it's worse everywhere else. Go check social media comments. Go talk to people in real life. Hardly anyone thinks Lebby is doing well.

[Todd4State]

I've spent an unhealthy amount of the last 20 years talking about Mississippi State football and other sports across multiple message boards. The notion that I "want to hurt the program" is absolutely ludicrous, and I think even you will admit that.

I have never posted anything that would be detrimental to Mississippi State, and have held back on posting my opinions many times.

I don't think you are intentionally doing it. I think you just don't know what the hell you are talking about.

And then to try to call out the people that know how to fix the program- yeah that's not going to fly.

[Todd4State]

It's also fascinating how most Lebby fans were huge Leach Haters who wanted to fire him after 2021 and said that if he lost the Egg Bowl in 2022, he should be fired even if he was 11-1 because winning the Egg Bowl is that important ... but not a peep from any of those people after Lebby is 0-2 in Egg Bowls.

Yep. Big time Leach hater here.*******

Funny I've been accused of liking him too much and now I hate him by MSU fans in the span of a week.

[Coach34]

Bull. Ѕhit.

That's insane. Please find some of those posts.

[Todd4State]

We got BOC specifically because we vowed to fund the program at an even higher rate

Until we spend like an SEC team in football- we wont see the results we desire.

Sure but we were already supporting baseball very well before.

[Quaoarsking]

I don't think you are intentionally doing it. I think you just don't know what the hell you are talking about.

And then to try to call out the people that know how to fix the program- yeah that's not going to fly.

I know that our "coach" laid another egg yesterday in a winnable game, one that the team was completely unprepared for and apparently still hungover at 8 PM. I know that he's now 2-17 with no sign of ever turning the corner.

I know that the vast majority of our fans don't think that's acceptable, and even the ones who claim that it is don't really have any counterarguments beyond just flinging insults.

[Todd4State]

You're living under a rock if you think the fanbase supports Lebby. Open your eyes. Even on this message board, it's overwhelmingly anti-Lebby, and it's worse everywhere else. Go check social media comments. Go talk to people in real life. Hardly anyone thinks Lebby is doing well.

And if he does well in the portal and wins the opinion will improve. We'll see what happens but about 2 weeks from now I have a feeling the opinion will improve.

It's not bad enough to where MSU is going to fire him at this point no matter how bad you want it to be.

[Quaoarsking]

That's insane. Please find some of those posts.

Just search "Leach fired" up in the top left and read through the whole threads

https://www.elitedawgs.com/showthread.php?94270-It-s-time-for-Leach-to-go&highlight=leach+fired
https://www.elitedawgs.com/showthread.php?89446-That-s-0-2-Pirate&highlight=leach+fired
https://www.elitedawgs.com/showthread.php?89450-The-Reason-I-wouldn-t-Extend-Mike-Leach&highlight=leach+fired

[Todd4State]

I know that our "coach" laid another egg yesterday in a winnable game, one that the team was completely unprepared for and apparently still hungover at 8 PM. I know that he's now 2-17 with no sign of ever turning the corner.

I know that the vast majority of our fans don't think that's acceptable, and even the ones who claim that it is don't really have any counterarguments beyond just flinging insults.

We lost to an 8 win team. You expected our offensive line and defense to magically get better because Arnett was attending practices or something? It was a one possession game in the fourth quarter. Bad players look bad. You on the other hand by your own admission accused our team of partying without any knowledge or evidence. Losing wasn't out of the realm of possibility at all.

[Quaoarsking]

We lost to an 8 win team. You expected our offensive line and defense to magically get better because Arnett was attending practices or something? It was a one possession game in the fourth quarter. Bad players look bad. You on the other hand by your own admission accused our team of partying without any knowledge or evidence. Losing wasn't out of the realm of possibility at all.

Come on, man. You really think that was what I was saying?

Wake Forest was an 8-win ACC team, yet all of computer models and the Vegas odds favored us, and the computer models weren't taking into account that Wake had a lot more opt-outs. A loss wasn't out of question (bowl games are always funny), but it was the near-unanimous opinion of all the boards (not just me) that we looked totally unprepared, and the fact that we had multiple players with dehydration issues has to raise some red flags.

If Lebby had been good all year, I could chalk this up to a bowl game fluke, but when it's part of pattern, it's hard to ignore.

[Coach34]

Just search "Leach fired" up in the top left and read through the whole threads

https://www.elitedawgs.com/showthread.php?94270-It-s-time-for-Leach-to-go&highlight=leach+fired
https://www.elitedawgs.com/showthread.php?89446-That-s-0-2-Pirate&highlight=leach+fired
https://www.elitedawgs.com/showthread.php?89450-The-Reason-I-wouldn-t-Extend-Mike-Leach&highlight=leach+fired

ahhhh, a few emotional posts after losing to Mississippi. Gotcha. Didnt think it was some big serious thoughts that went on for days. Didnt remember anything like that

[Todd4State]

Come on, man. You really think that was what I was saying?

Wake Forest was an 8-win ACC team, yet all of computer models and the Vegas odds favored us, and the computer models weren't taking into account that Wake had a lot more opt-outs. A loss wasn't out of question (bowl games are always funny), but it was the near-unanimous opinion of all the boards (not just me) that we looked totally unprepared, and the fact that we had multiple players with dehydration issues has to raise some red flags.

If Lebby had been good all year, I could chalk this up to a bowl game fluke, but when it's part of pattern, it's hard to ignore.

The only pattern is our offensive line and defense being trash. And KT playing like a freshman. No one wants to hear it but if Shapen plays we might have won.

Next year will be a different team and Lebby's success will be determined by how we do in the portal.

[Todd4State]

ahhhh, a few emotional posts after losing to Mississippi. Gotcha. Didnt think it was some big serious thoughts that went on for days. Didnt remember anything like that

You mean like today?** Who would have thought that fan opinion on a coach would be less than favorable after a loss?**

[Quaoarsking]

No one wants to hear it but if Shapen plays we might have won.

Yes, at the very least, it would have been nice to have him for the plays where we had to put in LK near the goal line and settle for a FG.

Too bad Shapen quit on the team. (Or even worse if as someone claimed yesterday, he was willing to come to Charlotte but Lebby told him not to bother.)

[BlackSailsDawg]

What in the world do you think he can plausibly show next year to overcome the huge whole he himself has dug?

There is no HOLE that he has dug. Lebby will be your coach next year. He's going to be your coach the following year too. Get use to it.

[BlackSailsDawg]

The thing is you don't offer anything constructive to fix it.

The people you say that are "defending" Lebby are all basically telling you how to fix it. But somehow "you just want to win and this is unacceptable" but when someone tells you to donate money to the program you get all bitchy. That's why people tell you "**** you". You really don't care. You just don't want Lebby here because of what his father in law did. That's more important to you than winning. So spare me the bullshit.

If you want someone other than Lebby that's fine. We can fire him today and I wouldn't give a shit. Hell if we brought in Dan and least we can get that out of our fans system and then Arnett would be gone. So if you want him gone go find some boosters like those dumbasses in Madison that got us in this spot to start with. Go ahead. Make it happen. I just told you how to get rid of Lebby. What a loyalist I am.**

But don't tell me that you only want to win when you aren't really willing to do what it takes to do it which is give money and you're trying to do everything you can do to hurt MSU football but you are too ignorant to realize it because you're blinded by your hate by Lebby.

Oh SNAP!! PREACH IT TODD!!!!! AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Quaoarsking]

There is no HOLE that he has dug. Lebby will be your coach next year. He's going to be your coach the following year too. Get use to it.

You're in uncharted territory with that one. It's too far out on a limb for the rest of the Lebby supporters here.

[BlackSailsDawg]

...
What??

I have said repeatedly that we need to change head coaches to someone who our boosters will be more interested in funding. Nobody thinks that paying into Mississippi State football is a good investment right now. Yes, some will do it anyway because they're diehard fans, but we saw a few months ago in baseball how a coaching change can suddenly open people's pocketbooks.


I've always said that Lebby is not responsible for his creep father-in-law's actions. I've never held him responsible for that. I think Lebby's own actions during that scandal are pretty sketchy, but in a world where Chris Beard can go from beating the hell out of his wife to head coach of Ole Miss in 3 months, it's just something that fans everywhere have to make themselves OK with it.


Apparently not...


I have donated what I can comfortably afford. I wish I were a millionaire or billionaire, but sadly I'm not. I don't know what more I can personally do, other than make it clear that the vast majority of the fanbase wants him gone.

No no no. Todd is right. You do nothing but try to cause a fake outrage and claim you "Speak" for the majority of fans. You don't. You don't have a pulse on the situation. You are not the MSU FAN Spokes person. You run from board to board to proclaim the fans want Lebby gone trying to sow discord as if you are fighting some religious and righteous battle that God himself appointed you to do.

[Pancho]

I still think he is here for several more years and 6 wins will be tops in any given season.

[Turfdawg67]

Just search "Leach fired" up in the top left and read through the whole threads

https://www.elitedawgs.com/showthread.php?94270-It-s-time-for-Leach-to-go&highlight=leach+fired
https://www.elitedawgs.com/showthread.php?89446-That-s-0-2-Pirate&highlight=leach+fired
https://www.elitedawgs.com/showthread.php?89450-The-Reason-I-wouldn-t-Extend-Mike-Leach&highlight=leach+fired

Looks like the same guys that want Lebby fired. Lol. Most of the threads are defending him. Now do DM

[Turfdawg67]

No no no. Todd is right. You do nothing but try to cause a fake outrage and claim you "Speak" for the majority of fans. You don't. You don't have a pulse on the situation. You are not the MSU FAN Spokes person. You run from board to board to proclaim the fans want Lebby gone trying to sow discord as if you are fighting some religious and righteous battle that God himself appointed you to do.

It's called projecting.

[Quaoarsking]

No no no. Todd is right. You do nothing but try to cause a fake outrage and claim you "Speak" for the majority of fans. You don't. You don't have a pulse on the situation. You are not the MSU FAN Spokes person. You run from board to board to proclaim the fans want Lebby gone trying to sow discord as if you are fighting some religious and righteous battle that God himself appointed you to do.

I (along with lots of others) "run from board to board" and see that almost everyone wants him gone. EliteDawgs is the only one that has more than just a tiny handful of Lebby supporters, but it's still a majority here who wishes we would make the change.

You're asking to trust you over my lyin' eyes.

[msstate7]

Hell, hoops has been one of Lebby's biggest backers, and Lebby lost him last night.

[BlackSailsDawg]

You're living under a rock if you think the fanbase supports Lebby. Open your eyes. Even on this message board, it's overwhelmingly anti-Lebby, and it's worse everywhere else. Go check social media comments. Go talk to people in real life. Hardly anyone thinks Lebby is doing well.

Did you just say that SOCIAL MEDIA... LMAO! WOW.... Dude. No words.

Socail media now =s real life.......................

[Tbonewannabe]

We beat Tennessee if our offensive line doesn't whiff and Shapen gets sacked. We tried to run the clock out against Texas and couldn't because of our offensive line. And we executed poorly on punt coverage.

Those issues are corrected with better talent.

We didn't try to run clock against Texas. We were running fast and snapping the ball with 30 seconds on the playclock. I will give him credit that for 3 quarters he looked like a coach who knew what he was doing. Then he went completely retarded.

[BlackSailsDawg]

You mean like today?** Who would have thought that fan opinion on a coach would be less than favorable after a loss?**

Did you notice he linked threads that had HIMSELF calling for a 9 win coach to be fired... LOL! This dude literally goes board to board to board to trash all things MSU. Never known a MSU fan to go 24/7 trashing all things MSU.

[sandjunky]

No no no. Todd is right. You do nothing but try to cause a fake outrage and claim you "Speak" for the majority of fans. You don't. You don't have a pulse on the situation. You are not the MSU FAN Spokes person. You run from board to board to proclaim the fans want Lebby gone trying to sow discord as if you are fighting some religious and righteous battle that God himself appointed you to do.

You wouldn?t have been a member of Genespage circa 2001-2003 possibly?

[Quaoarsking]

Did you notice he linked threads that had HIMSELF calling for a 9 win coach to be fired... LOL! This dude literally goes board to board to board to trash all things MSU. Never known a MSU fan to go 24/7 trashing all things MSU.

What 9-win coach have I ever called for to be fired?

[BlackSailsDawg]

It's called projecting.

Yep it is. With "Fans" like him, we don't need enemies.

[BlackSailsDawg]

I (along with lots of others) "run from board to board" and see that almost everyone wants him gone. EliteDawgs is the only one that has more than just a tiny handful of Lebby supporters, but it's still a majority here who wishes we would make the change.

You're asking to trust you over my lyin' eyes.

No I am telling you that social media is not real life. I'm telling you that you just trashed your own argument again by say you and others do go from message board to message board to sow discord to try and have an outcome that you desire. I bet you count yourself as 4 or 5 fans too.

[Quaoarsking]

No I am telling you that social media is not real life. I'm telling you that you just trashed your own argument again by say you and others do go from message board to message board to sow discord to try and have an outcome that you desire. I bet you count yourself as 4 or 5 fans too.

The "discord" is being caused by our 2-17 head coach, and his so-called supporters who won't even try to argue that he's doing a good job but instead just call the majority stupid for thinking 2-17 isn't good enough.

It's OK for people to want to make a coaching change. It was OK in 2008, 2019, 2023, and it's OK now too. It's fine for people to talk about it on a message board.

[Pancho]

hope they buy us some much better players. the ones we have need much help

[Tbonewannabe]

My biggest worry is that all I heard was how valuable the extra 15 practices were. It is another spring practice so you can get a lot of development to get ready for spring

That team looked worse than the team that beat ASU. Good coaching actually develops players. Our players are actually getting worse.

Add in the bad decision making during games and it doesn't lead to hope for next year.

[msstate7]

My biggest worry is that all I heard was how valuable the extra 15 practices were. It is another spring practice so you can get a lot of development to get ready for spring

That team looked worse than the team that beat ASU. Good coaching actually develops players. Our players are actually getting worse.

Add in the bad decision making during games and it doesn't lead to hope for next year.

He's a total and complete bust, and only those who won't admit they're wrong are backing him

[Pancho]

how many more bust years will he get, 3 or maybe 4?

[Turfdawg67]

We didn't try to run clock against Texas. We were running fast and snapping the ball with 30 seconds on the playclock. I will give him credit that for 3 quarters he looked like a coach who knew what he was doing. Then he went completely retarded.

OMG, if he went conservative, like Mullen v Bama, ppl would rip him for taking the foot off the throat.

[Political Hack]

He made some pretty poor in-game decisions so far, but the team is improving. Next year will tell the tale on Lebby as HC. I don't have a great deal of confidence, but I think he deserves the chance to get it right. I hope he spends a little time looking back at games this year and looking at what he could've done differently.

That said, this was not the year to make a move. Michigan just hired a guy that would've crawled to Starkville for our job a year or two ago.

[Quaoarsking]

OMG, if he went conservative, like Mullen v Bama, ppl would rip him for taking the foot off the throat.

I mean, if he won we would have all been thrilled no matter how it happened, and if he blew a 17-point lead and lost, we would have all (well, not all actually...) been upset no matter how it happened.

[Quaoarsking]

He made some pretty poor in-game decisions so far, but the team is improving. Next year will tell the tale on Lebby as HC. I don't have a great deal of confidence, but I think he deserves the chance to get it right. I hope he spends a little time looking back at games this year and looking at what he could've done differently.

That said, this was not the year to make a move. Michigan just hired a guy that would've crawled to Starkville for our job a year or two ago.

Are we though? I would say we got worse from September to October, worse from October to November, and worse from November to January.

[BlackSailsDawg]

The "discord" is being caused by our 2-17 head coach, and his so-called supporters who won't even try to argue that he's doing a good job but instead just call the majority stupid for thinking 2-17 isn't good enough.

It's OK for people to want to make a coaching change. It was OK in 2008, 2019, 2023, and it's OK now too. It's fine for people to talk about it on a message board.

You are full of crap. We have explained it over and over. It's to the point that people are tired of actually responding to you few. That makes you think that you are in the majority. It doesn't. It means we get it is useless because you have an agenda and have little reasoning skills. We simply sit back and laugh.

But for you once more. Then it's back to laughing at you few.

- Lebby walked into very little. What we did have as far as production, he brought in. We lacked the system and the money. Nobody is really going to count that first year due to the over all circumstances.

- In year 2 massive improvement every where. That leads to more money and the reason why we are getting great options coming in via the portal.

So yes. He has taken the beating and improved. That's what he was paid to do. There is nothing that shows we will not improve. In fact, the move on defense alone makes next year better. Arnett is a proven DC and we had the #12 rush dfense with him here and our defenses consistently ranked in the 30s. T fact he is making changes on the offense along with the dedication to bring in an OL and DL shows there will be improvement.

Make zero mistake. Nobody is satisfied with 5 wins. We just aren't interested in your solution to fire a coach that is improving our team.

[Turfdawg67]

He's a total and complete bust, and only those who won't admit they're wrong are backing him

It's bad and last night almost moved me completely. But I still consider this year 1, and I would like to see vast improvements next year. Hell, we've sucked for most of 100 years, what's one more?!? His underwhelming hires this offseason haven't instilled much hope however.

[msstate7]

Be so terrible that you lose yo Toledo by 40 at home, so the next season you get credit for close losses.

[Tater]

Are we though? I would say we got worse from September to October, worse from October to November, and worse from November to January.

The argument here is - did any player who didn't get hurt show real improvement throughout the year.

KT definitely improved throughout the year. Anthony Evans felt like he improved some. Defensively I'm not sure I know anyone who really did. We did change DC.

But the other side of that - injury management - we didn't do well there and that does ultimately fall on the coach's S&C program.

[Turfdawg67]

I mean, if he won we would have all been thrilled no matter how it happened, and if he blew a 17-point lead and lost, we would have all (well, not all actually...) been upset no matter how it happened.

Ok, try and stay in one lane. Poster stated "if he had eaten up clock" and I said "if he had and lost..." then he and others like you would've said "we went too conservative".

[Turfdawg67]

Be so terrible that you lose yo Toledo by 40 at home, so the next season you get credit for close losses.

Oh no, he's drunk and arguing with himself it appears.

[Coach34]

The "discord" is being caused by our 2-17 head coach, and his so-called supporters who won't even try to argue that he's doing a good job but instead just call the majority stupid for thinking 2-17 isn't good enough.

It's OK for people to want to make a coaching change. It was OK in 2008, 2019, 2023, and it's OK now too. It's fine for people to talk about it on a message board.

Here is where you lose people. Most normal people see Y1 for what it was- a complete rebuild where he hardly spent any NIL money. It was a throw away and everybody knew it going in- especially our AD. But- what was expected was improvement in Y2. Our AD telling people we need more money. We got to invest in football. Guess what? Thats what we got. This year while not great was a success. Next year? Need to find some guys that can play and find a way to win a few games. What does that take? More money and resources. More front office personnel. Beamer demanded it at SC and got it. We better step it up also or nothing will change.

[Quaoarsking]

Ok, try and stay in one lane. Poster stated "if he had eaten up clock" and I said "if he had and lost..." then the he and others like you would've said "we went too conservative".

I mean, any situation which involves losing a game when we lead by 17 with 10 minutes to go is going to cause a lot of consternation from the fanbase. But if he had at least not kept snapping it with 20 seconds left on the play clock (with the game clock running), it wouldn't have seem so stupidly self-inflicted.

If the offense can't work while taking time off the clock, that's on the head coach, any head coach.

[Tater]

Ok, try and stay in one lane. Poster stated "if he had eaten up clock" and I said "if he had and lost..." then he and others like you would've said "we went too conservative".

Yes I think yall are agreeing here. The problem is that Lebby made the decisions that ends in losses more than wins. So do the opposite will be the surface complaint but the real root is that people are complaining we have a loser.

[Quaoarsking]

Here is where you lose people. Most normal people see Y1 for what it was- a complete rebuild where he hardly spent any NIL money. It was a throw away and everybody knew it going in- especially our AD. But- what was expected was improvement in Y2. Our AD telling people we need more money. We got to invest in football. Guess what? Thats what we got. This year while not great was a success. Next year? Need to find some guys that can play and find a way to win a few games. What does that take? More money and resources. More front office personnel. Beamer demanded it at SC and got it. We better step it up also or nothing will change.
It also takes a coach who won't shoot the team in the foot. I hope Lebby enrolls in some remedial coaching strategy courses this Spring.

I mean, if you were our coach this past year, we would have won 6 or 7 games. You know to run out the clock when up 17. You know that you've got to get the FG at least attempted when down 3 in range. I'm not asking Lebby to become Nick Saban.

[bulldawg28]

Lebby has 12 months to improve drastically and with the schedule for next year I'm not certain he'll make it. We need to start a search committee now and get ahead of the search. Thankfully the SEC schools had the major turnover this year. SC may be our competition for a coach. The loser of that game is probably 95% getting fired.

[Coach34]

It also takes a coach who won't shoot the team in the foot. I hope Lebby enrolls in some remedial coaching strategy courses this Spring.

I mean, if you were our coach this past year, we would have won 6 or 7 games. You know to run out the clock when up 17. You know that you've got to get the FG at least attempted when down 3 in range. I'm not asking Lebby to become Nick Saban.

You know I totally agree with you about the Texas game. But some coaches- not just Lebby- dont want to alter their philosophy. And his is to play fast. It can certainly win you games- but it cost us vs Texas.

At the end of the day football needs more resources. No matter who the coach is.

[msstate7]

Lebby has 12 months to improve drastically and with the schedule for next year I'm not certain he'll make it. We need to start a search committee now and get ahead of the search. Thankfully the SEC schools had the major turnover this year. SC may be our competition for a coach. The loser of that game is probably 95% getting fired.

I'm pulling for him. I don't think he will succeed, but I wanna be wrong. I convinced myself he'd have us ready last night, and he let me down again

[Tater]

Lebby has 12 months to improve drastically and with the schedule for next year I'm not certain he'll make it. We need to start a search committee now and get ahead of the search. Thankfully the SEC schools had the major turnover this year. SC may be our competition for a coach. The loser of that game is probably 95% getting fired.

The **** we need a committee for? It's 1. Mullen, 2. Eric Morris, 3. Jerry Mack. There job done. Mack would take our job if given the opportunity next year - no need to search any deeper.

[msstate7]

Oh no, he's drunk and arguing with himself it appears.

I think the point was clear.

[bulldawg28]

I'm pulling for him. I don't think he will succeed, but I wanna be wrong. I convinced myself he'd have us ready last night, and he let me down again

Same, but he's lost me as well. He's having to learn too much on the job and hasn't improved enough. He's measured with win & losses and potential is no longer acceptable in year 3.

[Tater]

You know I totally agree with you about the Texas game. But some coaches- not just Lebby- dont want to alter their philosophy. And his is to play fast. It can certainly win you games- but it cost us vs Texas.

At the end of the day football needs more resources. No matter who the coach is.

Offensive system: Won @ Arkansas
Head Coaching Decisions: Lost @ Florida, Lost vs. Texsa, Lost vs. Tenn, Lost vs. Aggy (go dig up the thread about our shitty run designs which was again a problem last night), Lost vs. WF, TBD if his decision cost us KT Y2 and a bunch of losses prematurely, Won @ ASU

[R2Dawg]

We beat Tennessee if our offensive line doesn't whiff and Shapen gets sacked. We tried to run the clock out against Texas and couldn't because of our offensive line. And we executed poorly on punt coverage.

Those issues are corrected with better talent.

That same OL got us a 17 pt lead on TX with 900 to play. That loss is all on Lebby. Any other take is just a false narrative.

Not saying OL can't get better but we had a freaking 17 pt lead middle of 4th. No excuse. Tenn and UF same.

[bulldawg28]

The **** we need a committee for? It's 1. Mullen, 2. Eric Morris, 3. Jerry Mack. There job done. Mack would take our job if given the opportunity next year - no need to search any deeper.

Lol, I'm fine with that. We need an actual head coach

[Quaoarsking]

The **** we need a committee for? It's 1. Mullen, 2. Eric Morris, 3. Jerry Mack. There job done. Mack would take our job if given the opportunity next year - no need to search any deeper.

We could hire two of those on Monday.

[Coach34]

Eric Morris isnt leaving his new job for StarkVegas

[Todd4State]

That same OL got us a 17 pt lead on TX with 900 to play. That loss is all on Lebby. Any other take is just a false narrative.

Not saying OL can't get better but we had a freaking 17 pt lead middle of 4th. No excuse. Tenn and UF same.

Yes but when you lack depth on the offensive line guess when that shows up? The fourth quarter.

[Bothrops]

My biggest problem with this team is we weren't anywhere near as good last night as we were mid season. That's foretelling.

[Tater]

Eric Morris isnt leaving his new job for StarkVegas

You make the call and move to option #3. Mack would be a good hire for 3 years before he hopefully won enough to go to greener pastures.

[BlackSailsDawg]

Yes but when you lack depth on the offensive line guess when that shows up? The fourth quarter.

It was also all the 5 star players waking up on that tx team

[Brobi-wan]

Just search "Leach fired" up in the top left and read through the whole threads

https://www.elitedawgs.com/showthread.php?94270-It-s-time-for-Leach-to-go&highlight=leach+fired
https://www.elitedawgs.com/showthread.php?89446-That-s-0-2-Pirate&highlight=leach+fired
https://www.elitedawgs.com/showthread.php?89450-The-Reason-I-wouldn-t-Extend-Mike-Leach&highlight=leach+fired

The funny thing about this, is that the fire leach crew was the same as the fire Lebby outside of you. Lol

[Bothrops]

The days of - need more time - is overstated now. For example, the Chiz said in a post-game analysis during the season for one of our games that we were doing things the right way by giving Lebby time to build. Well, historically speaking he was mostly correct on that comment, but not now and not at Miss St. You can't build anything now, except a brand new team every single season for 25M to 40M dollars. Mississippi State cannot do this. It's too much money and you have to have a bonafide group of coaches and salesmen in place, first. We don't have either one, with maybe Arnett as a partial exception. You know pretty quick if you have a winner.

[Quaoarsking]

The funny thing about this, is that the fire leach crew was the same as the fire Lebby outside of you. Lol

No it's not - there is a general inverse relationship (not 100% of people, but most) between people's opinions on Lebby and opinions on Leach. Remember that "it's all Leach's fault" has been excuse #1 for the Lebby supporters for 16 months now.

[Brobi-wan]

No it's not - there is a general inverse relationship (not 100% of people, but most) between people's opinions on Lebby and opinions on Leach. Remember that "it's all Leach's fault" has been excuse #1 for the Lebby supporters for 16 months now.

Year 1 was a roster turnover problem, yes. This year we were some bad coaching decisions and poor player decision making away from a winning season. If we are not 7-5 next year Lebby will be gone. You don’t have to worry about it

[Todd4State]

The funny thing about this, is that the fire leach crew was the same as the fire Lebby outside of you. Lol

Interesting. But not surprising.

[BlackSailsDawg]

The days of - need more time - is overstated now. For example, the Chiz said in a post-game analysis during the season for one of our games that we were doing things the right way by giving Lebby time to build. Well, historically speaking he was mostly correct on that comment, but not now and not at Miss St. You can't build anything now, except a brand new team every single season for 25M to 40M dollars. Mississippi State cannot do this. It's too much money and you have to have a bonafide group of coaches and salesmen in place, first. We don't have either one, with maybe Arnett as a partial exception. You know pretty quick if you have a winner.

Actually there is a blend that will work. What we need is experience from winning programs. We are now allowed 105 players. SO.. We get to dig deep into lower divisions and pay less. We just need great eval.

Example here is a 65% passer... threw it 450 times this year and 25 Tds. 3,400 yards. He is 6'5" 240 Jr. Rushed for another 2 TDs. He is a DII player.

There is a fast WR Jaylen Himes. 66 catches for 1200 yards as a FR. DII. Now has some D1 offers.

There is a JR RB.. 6'1" 230lbs over 2000 yards rushing with 28 rushing TDs. He is built.

You have to go tht route to find some depth. You continue to pull in HS plyers. You spend your bigger dollars on the lines.

[confucius say]

What in the world do you think he can plausibly show next year to overcome the huge whole he himself has dug?

Keeping improving the win total. We aren't firing him if he keeps doing that.

[confucius say]

One more year to see if he?s the guy???? Ole buddy has one one?ONE?SEC game in two years and that is in an SEC that is clearly down. Let me answer this for you with certainty. He is NOT the guy.

Maybe so. But we aren't firing a coach who took over the worst roster in the sec (probably P4) and improved from 2-10 to 5-7. Nor should we. If he doesn't improve next year, we can move off him. But it's not happening right now.

[BlackSailsDawg]

Maybe so. But we aren't firing a coach who took over the worst roster in the sec (probably P4) and improved from 2-10 to 5-7. Nor should we. If he doesn't improve next year, we can move off him. But it's not happening right now.

Anybody who truly wants to know if there were improvements can look up the truth. We were much improved on offense. That's verifiable via the numbers and rankings.

[confucius say]

My biggest worry is that all I heard was how valuable the extra 15 practices were. It is another spring practice so you can get a lot of development to get ready for spring

That team looked worse than the team that beat ASU. Good coaching actually develops players. Our players are actually getting worse.

Add in the bad decision making during games and it doesn't lead to hope for next year.

I thought the WR looked better. Williams and McGee looked good.
Thought OL looked worse. Loadholt sucks.
Rest were about the same.

[confucius say]

The argument here is - did any player who didn't get hurt show real improvement throughout the year.

KT definitely improved throughout the year. Anthony Evans felt like he improved some. Defensively I'm not sure I know anyone who really did. We did change DC.

But the other side of that - injury management - we didn't do well there and that does ultimately fall on the coach's S&C program.

Several WR improved.
KT improved.
Kelly jones improved.
Safeties improved.
OL did not.
DL did not.
Lockhart improved.

[Quaoarsking]

Maybe so. But we aren't firing a coach who took over the worst roster in the sec (probably P4) and improved from 2-10 to 5-7. Nor should we. If he doesn't improve next year, we can move off him. But it's not happening right now.

I'll ask you a question I've asked others: If Lebby had beaten Toledo and Arkansas in 2024, is the case to keep him stronger or weaker?

4-8 to 5-7 isn't nearly the "improvement" as 2-10 to 5-7, but surely we're all a lot MORE comfortable with a coach with a better resume, not LESS, right?

[BlackSailsDawg]

I thought the WR looked better. Williams and McGee looked good.
Thought OL looked worse. Loadholt sucks.
Rest were about the same.

KT was better

[confucius say]

I'll ask you a question I've asked others: If Lebby had beaten Toledo and Arkansas in 2024, is the case to keep him stronger or weaker?

4-8 to 5-7 isn't nearly the "improvement" as 2-10 to 5-7, but surely we're all a lot MORE comfortable with a coach with a better resume, not LESS, right?

Probably stronger. It would have taken at least 50 to beat Toledo and 70 to beat Arkansas. Had he put up those points with the 2024 roster, I would think he was a magician.

Weird hypothetical.

[Todd4State]

I'll ask you a question I've asked others: If Lebby had beaten Toledo and Arkansas in 2024, is the case to keep him stronger or weaker?

4-8 to 5-7 isn't nearly the "improvement" as 2-10 to 5-7, but surely we're all a lot MORE comfortable with a coach with a better resume, not LESS, right?

Well, we beat Northern Illinois 38-10 and Arkansas on the road this year. In addition to a decent USM team on the road in what was I'm sure their Super Bowl.

It is what it is.

[Coach34]

AGAIN- eliminate Y1 on Lebby. Our Admin has. He is being judged on 2025 and 2026

[Todd4State]

I thought the WR looked better. Williams and McGee looked good.
Thought OL looked worse. Loadholt sucks.
Rest were about the same.

I'm only giving Loadholt another chance because of when he was brought in. It looks like we have some good OL prospects visiting this weekend.

More of the same next year then we're probably moving on with more than Loadholt anyway.

[Quaoarsking]

Probably stronger. It would have taken at least 50 to beat Toledo and 70 to beat Arkansas. Had he put up those points with the 2024 roster, I would think he was a magician.

Weird hypothetical.

It's not weird at all, because it shows the weakness of the "he improved!" argument. The Toledo game was where a lot of our fans realized that Lebby was never going to be a good coach for us, because despite our troubles, we really shouldn't have lost to a mid-level MAC team at all, or if we did, it should have at least been a fluky game rather than a complete embarrassment.

I'd feel more comfortable with 5-7 in 2025 if he hadn't needed such a big "improvement" (but still worst team in the SEC by FPI, 66th to 49th or maybe a little worse after they update it through the bowls) over 2024, but I don't know what the "he improved" copers would be saying instead.

[Quaoarsking]

AGAIN- eliminate Y1 on Lebby. Our Admin has. He is being judged on 2025 and 2026

I'm never going to forget or forgive the feeling of watching Toledo annihilate us. That never should have happened. We can't tell ourselves it was just a fluke.

[Todd4State]

AGAIN- eliminate Y1 on Lebby. Our Admin has. He is being judged on 2025 and 2026

We're talking about MSU fans who remember baseball losses to Mississippi College in 1985 here.

[BlackSailsDawg]

It's not weird at all, because it shows the weakness of the "he improved!" argument. The Toledo game was where a lot of our fans realized that Lebby was never going to be a good coach for us, because despite our troubles, we really shouldn't have lost to a mid-level MAC team at all, or if we did, it should have at least been a fluky game rather than a complete embarrassment.

I'd feel more comfortable with 5-7 in 2025 if he hadn't needed such a big "improvement" (but still worst team in the SEC by FPI, 66th to 49th or maybe a little worse after they update it through the bowls) over 2024, but I don't know what the "he improved" copers would be saying instead.

The numbers are out there to see if there was improvement. All you gotta do is go the the NCAA.org system and look it up.

[Todd4State]

I'm never going to forget or forgive the feeling of watching Toledo annihilate us. That never should have happened.

Shouldn't have lost to South Alabama either in 2016. Shouldn't have lost to Maine. Shouldn't have lost to Troy and ULM under Jackie or La Tech. Thing is Saban lost to ULM in year one too. Ole Miss lost to Jacksonville State a year after they went to the Cotton Bowl in 2010. Texas A&M lost to App State and Kevin Barbay. Shit happens.

At this same point in their careers Dan Mullen had two top 25 wins. Lebby has one. And Lebby if beats a top 25 team next year he will equal Dan in top 25 wins after three seasons after MSU. He's already halfway there.

[Todd4State]

The numbers are out there to see if there was improvement. All you gotta do is go the the NCAA.org system and look it up.

Oh hell no that's not happening from him. He's hanging his hat on "But.....but....Toledo!"

Hell- I could go to a preschool and every kid there would tell me that 5 is better than 2.

[Quaoarsking]

Shouldn't have lost to South Alabama either in 2016. Shouldn't have lost to Maine. Shouldn't have lost to Troy and ULM under Jackie or La Tech. Thing is Saban lost to ULM in year one too. Ole Miss lost to Jacksonville State a year after they went to the Cotton Bowl in 2010. Texas A&M lost to App State and Kevin Barbay. Shit happens.

Every single example you listed was a close fluky game. Toledo humiliated is. It wasn't a "Shit happens" game like the rest.


At this same point in their careers Dan Mullen had two top 25 wins. Lebby has one. And Lebby if beats a top 25 team next year he will equal Dan in top 25 wins after three seasons after MSU. He's already halfway there.
Arizona State is unlikely to receive a single vote in the final polls. I have been consistent for years that "ranking at the time" means nothing and only the final poll matters.

[confucius say]

It's not weird at all, because it shows the weakness of the "he improved!" argument. The Toledo game was where a lot of our fans realized that Lebby was never going to be a good coach for us, because despite our troubles, we really shouldn't have lost to a mid-level MAC team at all, or if we did, it should have at least been a fluky game rather than a complete embarrassment.

I'd feel more comfortable with 5-7 in 2025 if he hadn't needed such a big "improvement" (but still worst team in the SEC by FPI, 66th to 49th or maybe a little worse after they update it through the bowls) over 2024, but I don't know what the "he improved" copers would be saying instead.

It's weird because Arkansas beat us by 33 points. In no universe were we beating them in 2024. They could have hung 70 on us had they wanted to. It's a nonsensical hypothetical.

It's undeniable that we improved from 2024 to 2025. That is universally agreed to by all the pundits.
Doesn't mean 2025 was a success or even acceptable. But we were improved objectively.

[Quaoarsking]

The numbers are out there to see if there was improvement. All you gotta do is go the the NCAA.org system and look it up.

I don't deny that we're "better" and have posted facts myself many times that support this notion. What I've said is that I don't put much value in comparing against a year that was really awful where Lebby was the coach, and apparently "doesn't count" anyway. Of course we were better in 2025 than 2024 - how could we not have been? So what?

[Quaoarsking]

It's weird because Arkansas beat us by 33 points. In no universe were we beating them in 2024. They could have hung 70 on us had they wanted to. It's a nonsensical hypothetical.

I just picked a random game to give us another hypothetical win. Change it to Florida or Ole Miss if you want. If Lebby was 4-8 (1-7) in 2024, I'd feel a lot better about him now, even though the "he improved us by 3 games over his own record in 2024" argument wouldn't be there anymore.

[confucius say]

I just picked a random game to give us another hypothetical win. Change it to Florida or Ole Miss if you want. If Lebby was 4-8 (1-7) in 2024, I'd feel a lot better about him now, even though the "he improved us by 3 games over his own record in 2024" argument wouldn't be there anymore.

Well yea. Because if lebby went 4-8 with the 2024 roster he should have been coach of the year. Thats how bad we were in 2024. That he went from that to 5-7 in year 2 was improvement.

[Todd4State]

Every single example you listed was a close fluky game. Toledo humiliated is. It wasn't a "Shit happens" game like the rest.


Arizona State is unlikely to receive a single vote in the final polls. I have been consistent for years that "ranking at the time" means nothing and only the final poll matters.

Our game absolutely was shit happens. And none of those losses should have happened to any of those teams. Considering that Lebby hasn't even come close to losing another G5 game I think I can make a pretty good case that was a fluke as well.

You can use the final poll if you want to- it doesn't change anything in this case.

[Todd4State]

I just picked a random game to give us another hypothetical win. Change it to Florida or Ole Miss if you want. If Lebby was 4-8 (1-7) in 2024, I'd feel a lot better about him now, even though the "he improved us by 3 games over his own record in 2024" argument wouldn't be there anymore.

Even in your hypotheticals we still improved this year. That should tell you something.

[BlackSailsDawg]

I don't deny that we're "better" and have posted facts myself many times that support this notion. What I've said is that I don't put much value in comparing against a year that was really awful where Lebby was the coach, and apparently "doesn't count" anyway. Of course we were better in 2025 than 2024 - how could we not have been? So what?

Our offense was better than 2 SEC teams that reached the playoffs. Is that better for you? In fact our scoring offense is better than a playoff team... btw... from the SEC too. In fact, our scoring offense was better than 8 other SEC teams this year. 2 of those 8 made the playoffs.


Last year only 3 SEC teams were ranked below us in total offense. We were only better than 2 other SEC teams in scoring offense last year.

[Quaoarsking]

Our offense was better than 2 SEC teams that reached the playoffs. Is that better for you? In fact our scoring offense is better than a playoff team... btw... from the SEC too. In fact, our scoring offense was better than 8 other SEC teams this year. 2 of those 8 made the playoffs.


Last year only 3 SEC teams were ranked below us in total offense. We were only better than 2 other SEC teams in scoring offense last year.

I never questioned Lebby's aptitude at running at an offense. I question his aptitude at running an SEC football program.

[BlackSailsDawg]

I never questioned Lebby's aptitude at running at an offense. I question his aptitude at running an SEC football program.

Running a program means making changes when needed. He's shown every year to make needed changes. Cody Kennedy .. gone after 1 year. etc. Now he has gone out and got a known DC. And here's something you need to consider. Those 2 SEC teams that made to playoffs with lesser offenses did so because of defense.

OU is one of those teams. They only won as much because their defense is ranked 7th.

Bama is the other. That makes me smile that our offense is ranked higher and our scoring offense is too. But, Like OU.... Bama had a top defense.... ranked 13th.

Side Note... Ole Miss had the 41st ranked defense. Arnett should have us top 50 in year 1. Any improvement on offense and we are going to hurt some dreams next year.

[Todd4State]

Running a program means making changes when needed. He's shown every year to make needed changes. Cody Kennedy .. gone after 1 year. etc. Now he has gone out and got a known DC. And here's something you need to consider. Those 2 SEC teams that made to playoffs with lesser offenses did so because of defense.

OU is one of those teams. They only won as much because their defense is ranked 7th.

Bama is the other. That makes me smile that our offense is ranked higher and our scoring offense is too. But, Like OU.... Bama had a top defense.... ranked 13th.

Side Note... Ole Miss had the 41st ranked defense. Arnett should have us top 50 in year 1. Any improvement on offense and we are going to hurt some dreams next year.

Ironically enough Arnett/Brock's last year in 2023 that MSU wants rightfully redacted from our memories we finished guess what in total defense? 41st! **** you Kevin Barbay.

The other years under Arnett as DC- 35th, 31, and 51. If we can replicate ANY of those seasons we should improve a lot. When Arnett took over last we were 73rd in 2019 for context. We were 107th this year. So, 41 seems like it may be a big jump for us realistically. 60 seems very realistic if not somewhat pessimistic though.

[THE Bruce Dickinson]

We beat Tennessee if our offensive line doesn't whiff and Shapen gets sacked. We tried to run the clock out against Texas and couldn't because of our offensive line. And we executed poorly on punt coverage.

Those issues are corrected with better talent.

He went for it on 4th down on our own 36 when we were completely in control of the game and their offense could not do anything. If we just punt the ball, they dont have enough time to come back. I notice how you conveniently left the Florida game out too.

[Hot Rock]

Every single example you listed was a close fluky game. Toledo humiliated is. It wasn't a "Shit happens" game like the rest.


Arizona State is unlikely to receive a single vote in the final polls. I have been consistent for years that "ranking at the time" means nothing and only the final poll matters.

Actually teams are not the same from one game to the next. ASU had a ton of injuries that made them a shell of themselves. You cannot say rankings don't matter until the end of the season for a game that happened in the early part of the year when they were full strength.

Arizona State's 2025 season was significantly impacted by injuries, with key players like QB Sam Leavitt, WR Jordyn Tyson, DB Xavion Alford, OL Ben Coleman, and LB Zyrus Fiaseu missing significant time or the entire season, creating major holes in the offense, defense, and offensive line.

[Quaoarsking]

Actually teams are not the same from one game to the next. ASU had a ton of injuries that made them a shell of themselves. You cannot say rankings don't matter until the end of the season for a game that happened in the early part of the year when they were full strength.


I think that injuries are a fair point to raise with the "end of season rankings only" argument, but I still don't think ranking at the time is a good way to evaluate seasons.

For example, should 2020 Arkansas get credit for beating a ranked team (us), but nobody else who beat us get that credit? Just because they had a fluke in the order of their schedule?

In our favor, Auburn happened not to be ranked on the day we beat them in 2007, but they finished #15, and I count that as a ranked win for us.

[BB30]

Several WR improved.
KT improved.
Kelly jones improved.
Safeties improved.
OL did not.
DL did not.
Lockhart improved.

And what did all of the players that improved have in common? They were all highly valued sec caliber players....

We didn't have the talent nor the depth to consistently win and consistently improve.

Fluff wasn't the same after he missed a couple games. Our OL and DL were gassed by the end of the season. We lost arguably our only sec talent on the DL by week 4.

Our OL was absolutely atrocious most of the season.

Y'all may be right on lebby, but with the talent level we had up front he had to be perfect he didn't have any cushion for making boneheaded coaching decisions whereas kiffin and others got bailed out multiple times this year by the talent on their roster.

All coaches make dumb decisions heck, Kirby smart pissed the second half of the sugar bowl away and he's one of the best in the business.

Lebby may not be the guy. I can assure you the next guy won't be the guy either if we don't get better at buying in and fundraising the nil to compete.

Wake forest outspent us in NIL last year and they beat us shocker. We are dead last in NIL in the sec even behind Kentucky and y'all are surprised we have won one sec game in two years. I don't understand how some of y'all can't see there is a direct correlation in spending and winning.

[msstate7]

And what did all of the players that improved have in common? They were all highly valued sec caliber players....

We didn't have the talent nor the depth to consistently win and consistently improve.

Fluff wasn't the same after he missed a couple games. Our OL and DL were gassed by the end of the season. We lost arguably our only sec talent on the DL by week 4.

Our OL was absolutely atrocious most of the season.

Y'all may be right on lebby, but with the talent level we had up front he had to be perfect he didn't have any cushion for making boneheaded coaching decisions whereas kiffin and others got bailed out multiple times this year by the talent on their roster.

All coaches make dumb decisions heck, Kirby smart pissed the second half of the sugar bowl away and he's one of the best in the business.

Lebby may not be the guy. I can assure you the next guy won't be the guy either if we don't get better at buying in and fundraising the nil to compete.

Wake forest outspent us in NIL last year and they beat us shocker. We are dead last in NIL in the sec even behind Kentucky and y'all are surprised we have won one sec game in two years. I don't understand how some of y'all can't see there is a direct correlation in spending and winning.

WF outspent us? I'll have to see your work on that claim.

On3 has their class at 62nd last season with an avg nil of 17k. They have us 22nd last year with an avg nil of 53k. Let's not even mention them having several big hold outs for the bowl

[AROB44]

Quaoarsking

On the issue of whether Lebby should be fired or not, I very much speak for a huge majority of the fanbase.

I doubt that..... message boards do not represent the majority of the fanbase. They represent a small portion of it.

[Todd4State]

Quaoarsking

On the issue of whether Lebby should be fired or not, I very much speak for a huge majority of the fanbase.

I doubt that..... message boards do not represent the majority of the fanbase. They represent a small portion of it.

Fans are also notoriously emotional after games where their team loses.

I'm pretty sure most of those people feel differently after a day or two.

Plus if our boosters were out on Lebby we definitely know by now.

If you look at the stats it's very clear to me. Offense was fine. Improve the offensive line and KT will be better next year- we should be even better there next year. Defense has killed us the last two years. BADLY. We had to make major changes there and we have on the coaching side already. Main culprit to me was defensive line as a position group. Marginal improvement there could definitely be the difference in a win or two. Also need to retool the secondary but we are already starting to do those things.

[CaptainObvious]

Choosing to keep a coach who went 2-10 and 5-8 and looked completely lost in the bowl game with no sense of an offensive game plan other than run up the middle, drop back to pass and then scramble 20 times, throw it deep 8 times and miss on nearly every 10-15 yard pass attempt.

After 12 regular season games he knew what he had in an offensive line, yet he made no fixes or simplified blocking and protection adjustments with the 15 days of free extra practices. Enjoy the 1-5 start and Arnept finishing out next season. Good grief!!!!

[Coach34]

Choosing to keep a coach who went 2-10 and 5-8 and looked completely lost in the bowl game with no sense of an offensive game plan other than run up the middle, drop back to pass and then scramble 20 times, throw it deep 8 times and miss on nearly every 10-15 yard pass attempt.

After 12 regular season games he knew what he had in an offensive line, yet he made no fixes or simplified blocking and protection adjustments with the 15 days of free extra practices. Enjoy the 1-5 start and Arnept finishing out next season. Good grief!!!!

We scored 29 points against a team that won 9 games and was 26th in the country in Total D and 44th in Scoring D at 22.0 per with a true freshman QB, a terrible OL, missing coaches, and idiot players that dont have enough sense to drink the water/gatorade in the lockerroom that every team in the country has sitting out for them to hydrate with.

Banging on the offense is ridiculous. We had over 400 yards and looked much better than I thought we would on O.

[BlackSailsDawg]

We scored 29 points against a team that won 9 games and was 26th in the country in Total D and 44th in Scoring D at 22.0 per with a true freshman QB, a terrible OL, missing coaches, and idiot players that dont have enough sense to drink the water/gatorade in the lockerroom that every team in the country has sitting out for them to hydrate with.

Banging on the offense is ridiculous. We had over 400 yards and looked much better than I thought we would on O.

I love a good sermon. PREACH C34!

[BeardoMSU]

We scored 29 points against a team that won 9 games and was 26th in the country in Total D and 44th in Scoring D at 22.0 per with a true freshman QB, a terrible OL, missing coaches, and idiot players that dont have enough sense to drink the water/gatorade in the lockerroom that every team in the country has sitting out for them to hydrate with.

Banging on the offense is ridiculous. We had over 400 yards and looked much better than I thought we would on O.

Imagine how the freshman would've looked had he played sooner...

[BlackSailsDawg]

Imagine how the freshman would've looked had he played sooner...

We would not have won enough to go to the bowl.

[Maroon Glasses]

Imagine how the freshman would've looked had he played sooner...

I think it could have went one of 2 ways:
He would have started off horrible but progressed through the year. He would be that much further ahead now with his passing and reading defenses.
Or
He would have had his confidence crushed from being thrown to the wolves and not be able to develop at all.

I think Lebby did it the right way. I actually might would have brought him in one or two games earlier, but regardless I think he did it correctly. Shapen played really good early in the season. But once competition got better our weaknesses on the O Line became glaring. Hard for any QB to be successful.

[Maroon Glasses]

We would not have won enough to go to the bowl.

Technically we still didn't. I get it tho.

[PGHBulldogBG]

I certainly don’t agree with a lot of Lebbys in game coaching decisions but starting Shapen was the right move to start the season. KT has great potential if we can fund an SEC caliber OL, but I doubt we beat ASU with KT starting. He just was not ready at that point

[Coach34]

Imagine how the freshman would've looked had he played sooner...

Bout the same. We dont beat ASU with KT. Defense was a much bigger problem than QB. Losing Whitson was a way bigger issue than what we did at QB.

[BlackSailsDawg]

And I know this is comparing an SEC defense to WF, but KT vs ole miss was 48%. 4 weeks later vs WF, 59%.

[Todd4State]

We scored 29 points against a team that won 9 games and was 26th in the country in Total D and 44th in Scoring D at 22.0 per with a true freshman QB, a terrible OL, missing coaches, and idiot players that dont have enough sense to drink the water/gatorade in the lockerroom that every team in the country has sitting out for them to hydrate with.

Banging on the offense is ridiculous. We had over 400 yards and looked much better than I thought we would on O.

Lebby needs an OC.******

[Political Hack]

Are we though? I would say we got worse from September to October, worse from October to November, and worse from November to January.

We lost multiple games because of in-game decision making. But we competed. This team wasn't competitive at all last year. You are right that at the end of the season the players were playing for themselves, not the team. Lots of programs dealing with that now. Coaches have an unrealistic expectation of building a team with character and talent year to year without being able to depend on developing players at all. Every season is a new group. They'd better start recruiting some character guys if they want the team to still be playing hard at the end of the season with no playoffs in site.