A meeting of the elders - NIL

[gtowndawg]

Gentleman, we need to call a meeting of the elders. If we do not get serious about the NIL, we are going to be left behind forever. I know this is not the first time to bring this up but if Saturday didn't show you we can't get the players we need, I don't know what will.

Our um, friends, up North are absolutely leaving us in the dust right now. Not just with their football success on the field but with NIL and overall branding. I know we are trying, and I appreciate those involved, but we are not even in the same universe right now.

For those that don't know, Walker Jones is over The Grove Collective (NIL) for Ole Miss. You probably remember him as a player in the 90's. Walker not only has the Ole Miss connection as a player but he was also an executive at Under Armour for years. He signed Steph Curry and others to UA deals. He has the experience to run an organization that is built around brand awareness and raising big money. That's why they are so successful right now. He also has access to a private jet where he can fly NIL donors (or donors he is working) to home and away games. I encourage you to go look at their Instagram page. You will see tons of activity, they auction game used memorabilia to raise money, they sell custom Ole Miss Air Force 1's to raise money. Heck, they raised a ton of money one random day a couple of weeks ago to go play pickleball with Lane Kiffin. All of that was just the last two 2 weeks. They are constantly working to raise NIL funds and awareness - everyday! On the other hand, we have had 5 Instagram post in 5 months on our NIL page.

I give to the NIL. Not much, quite honestly I joined about 16 months ago out of sheer curiosity. I just wanted my name on a list so I could get an inside track on what's going on. When I do here from our NIL, it's a notification that my credit card was charged for the month, that's about it.

Whether you like it or not is irrelevant, if we don't pay, we won't play. Period. Ole Miss understands this very well but I don't believe we have the fanbase that can stomach it. I don't see much of a path moving forward, we simply don't have the leadership or fans to make it happen.

Also, this is not an indictment of Charlie. I don't know him, he sounds like a smart guy, I'm sure he loves State. But for us to move forward we need a serious heavy hitter leading the NIL efforts.

[civildawg]

Why do people keep complaining about NIL? Go listen to Hadad and Faulks show today. They said the one recruit turned down astronomically more money from us and went to Oregon state. Our NIL is fine for being the poorest state in the union. Our brand and image is the thing holding us back

[TrapGame]

Why do people keep complaining about NIL? Go listen to Hadad and Faulks show today. They said the one recruit turned down astronomically more money from us and went to Oregon state. Our NIL is fine for being the poorest state in the union. Our brand and image is the thing holding us back

Didn't we offer some guy major money and he went to LSU for less b/c it was an offer from LSU?

[gtowndawg]

Why do people keep complaining about NIL? Go listen to Hadad and Faulks show today. They said the one recruit turned down astronomically more money from us and went to Oregon state. Our NIL is fine for being the poorest state in the union. Our brand and image is the thing holding us back

Honest question, do you think we are on the same trajectory with Ole Miss over the next 5 years, 10 years? Yes, I think we can be a solid top 35 team in the country. But that puts us in the bottom 3 of the SEC.

[somebodyshotmypaw]

The people complaining about how others should give more money, are usually the ones that give the least. In my opinion (and it's fine if you don't share this opinion), everyone in American should be giving at least 10% of gross wages to charitable causes. There has never been a year in my life that I haven't reached that level, or far above. And NIL isn't even charitable or tax deductible. It's simply paying someone to play.

[civildawg]

Of course not but that's because they have a way better coach than us not because of money. They've always had more money than us since the beginning of time

[gtowndawg]

Also, I see this argument quite often - "we have NFL players that should be giving to the NIL!" Yes, I agree, they should and I hope they do (but who knows). But if we don't get serious we are not going to have any future NFL players signing deals to continue that trend. The burden for the NIL should be on the fans, NFL players are gravy (and hopefully lot's of it).

[gtowndawg]

Of course not but that's because they have a way better coach than us not because of money. They've always had more money than us since the beginning of time

Brother, having "more money" is literally all that matters moving forward.

[civildawg]

So coaching matters zero? Your an idiot

[gtowndawg]

The people complaining about how others should give more money, are usually the ones that give the least. In my opinion (and it's fine if you don't share this opinion), everyone in American should be giving at least 10% of gross wages to charitable causes. There has never been a year in my life that I haven't reached that level, or far above. And NIL isn't even charitable or tax deductible. It's simply paying someone to play.

I tithe and give to the NIL. All the NIL needs is $10 a month from everyone that goes to games. Or a flat $100 a year. That's Chick-fil-A for a family (practically).

[gtowndawg]

So coaching matters zero? Your an idiot

"you're" - no offense taken though. I've been called worse.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Also, I see this argument quite often - "we have NFL players that should be giving to the NIL!" Yes, I agree, they should and I hope they do (but who knows). But if we don't get serious we are not going to have any future NFL players signing deals to continue that trend. The burden for the NIL should be on the fans, NFL players are gravy (and hopefully lot's of it).

No. NIL in its current state, which is pay for play, should be the burden of the university. Unfortunately, that is not the case so the fans have to carry that burden or your team will SUCK. I get why people are frustrated, I do. But if we continually count on others to foot the bill then we are going to be left for dead in a matter of months, not years. We have to get serious and get rowing in the same direction on this. I get it sucks and it is not right for everything to be on the onus of the average fan, but that is the world we live in. You have to get busy livin or get busy dyin.

[Brobi-wan]

I tithe and give to the NIL. All the NIL needs is $10 a month from everyone that goes to games. Or a flat $100 a year. That's Chick-fil-A for a family (practically).

The Lord’s chicken is pricey. $100 bucks a year isn’t too much to ask. I spent that on books about the Roman Empire literally this month. It’s not about the size of the donation if you can get a big base going. I think a lot of people want to see us heading in the right direction before they give. Which I understand is backwards.

[HancockCountyDog]

The problem is that it is costing us more to keep players than most on here would suspect.

I think people would be stunned to find out how much our roster is costing us. I've been told a number, i'm not sure i believe it, but if it is even close, I'm not sure what we do but start over.

The OL, Shapen, a few of the HS kids, several defensive players are making real NIL dollars. Same type money that the bears are paying some of their players. Now, do i think their salaries exceed ours? Of course, but I will bet you that our OL is making close or the same as ours. Shapen isn't making Dart money, but it is a lot.

Stonka, Coleman, and Kelly A, are making real money.

The biggest problem I see is that we are overpaying for guys that aren't even close to difference makers. I was told John Lewis, Deonte Anderson and I think Ellington all got really solid NIL deals to stay with us. Is that a good thing? It's like paying Kirk Cousins 45 million dollars, sure he is solid at times, but not if Josh Allen is making 55 million.

I'm not sure what our path forward is honestly. Our HS recruiting is below average, we can't really benefit from diamonds in the rough anymore, because if they come here and blow up, then its a bidding war and we can lose them (Rara, Thomas) to better programs.

I'm tired of people comparing us to the bears. Its not a fair comparison right now. They have a top 5 coach in the country when it comes to branding, coaching and media. That won't last. It just can't. Right? The problem for us right now, is that people don't look at what you have done the last 5 years, its basically the last two years. The attention spans of both fans and donors is about two years.

We need to figure out a way to pull one solid upset this year. I don't care the game, just one SEC upset. I'm pretty sure we will be an underdog in all of our SEC games, so we have to pull one out to show that Lebby's plan will work here. I really like Lebby as a coach, but he has been dealt a very, very tough hand. The last two coaches were handed teams that had SEC DL on the roster. Lebby wasn't. Having that Covid year, really helped keep the defense together, and say what you want, Arnett knew how to coach defense.

[gtowndawg]

No. NIL in its current state, which is pay for play, should be the burden of the university. Unfortunately, that is not the case so the fans have to carry that burden or your team will SUCK. I get why people are frustrated, I do. But if we continually count on others to foot the bill then we are going to be left for dead in a matter of months, not years. We have to get serious and get rowing in the same direction on this. I get it sucks and it is not right for everything to be on the onus of the average fan, but that is the world we live in. You have to get busy livin or get busy dyin.

Fair point. I wish it was on the university and we could all give to one common source. But as of now, that's not the case. I think that's some of the hard decisions that also need to be talked about. Splitting our money between NIL and the Bulldog Club will never get anything accomplished. It's a hard conversation to have but we don't have the resources to fully fund both.

[civildawg]

Agree with all your points. We are either missing on evaluations or not coaching our current players up. Our OL is bad and our DL is high school level. We need a refund on our OL transfers

[gtowndawg]

This is not a guess - I know this because it's a friend of my middle son. This kid is about to commit to a SEC school in baseball and will get $150,000 to sign plus NIL. He visited another SEC school this weekend to see if they would be willing to do more. That's baseball. So imagine what SEC football cost. As I said earlier, it's all about the money moving forward. Whether we like that or agree with that is irrelevant, it's a fact.

[gtowndawg]

The Lord’s chicken is pricey. $100 bucks a year isn’t too much to ask. I spent that on books about the Roman Empire literally this month. It’s not about the size of the donation if you can get a big base going. I think a lot of people want to see us heading in the right direction before they give. Which I understand is backwards.

100% - our success is all about quantity. We just need a good vision placed in front of the average fan to clearly show why it's so important. Right now the NIL get's what, one mention at the football game? That's insane. I mean for heaven's sake we still have The Bulldog Club painted in the end zones!

[StarkVegasSteve]

Fair point. I wish it was on the university and we could all give to one common source. But as of now, that's not the case. I think that's some of the hard decisions that also need to be talked about. Splitting our money between NIL and the Bulldog Club will never get anything accomplished. It's a hard conversation to have but we don't have the resources to fully fund both.

Correct. Until this is all brought under the university umbrella you either have to give to the BDC or NIL. Right now, the choice needs to be NIL. If you don't have the resources to give to both, and a lot of people don't, then give the minimum seat donation to the BDC if you have tickets and give the rest to NIL. It sucks and I get that, but it's unfortunately the landscape college athletics are in. We can only hit up Richard Rula, Richard Adkerson, Heath Jenkins, Billy Howard, etc. for so much. This is where OM has us whipped right now. Everyone from Dickie Scruggs, David Nutt, and Jerry Hollingsworth on down to the young alumni that I know out here in Dallas are giving to The Grove Collective. They understand the importance of NIL. They are all in. We have to get to that point.

[StarkVegasSteve]

100% - our success is all about quantity. We just need a clear vision placed in front of the average fan to clearly show why it's so important. Right now the NIL get's what, one mention at the football game? That's insane. I mean for heaven's sake we still have The Bulldog Club painted in the end zones!

If I was Lebby and Co. I would make sure the Bulldog Initiative logo is on the field at every game. Either put it in the endzones or on the sidelines and have damn QR codes all over campus and Starkville

[gtowndawg]

Correct. Until this is all brought under the university umbrella you either have to give to the BDC or NIL. Right now, the choice needs to be NIL. If you don't have the resources to give to both, and a lot of people don't, then give the minimum seat donation to the BDC if you have tickets and give the rest to NIL. It sucks and I get that, but it's unfortunately the landscape college athletics are in. We can only hit up Richard Rula, Richard Adkerson, Heath Jenkins, Billy Howard, etc. for so much. This is where OM has us whipped right now. Everyone from Dickie Scruggs, David Nutt, and Jerry Hollingsworth on down to the young alumni that I know out here in Dallas are giving to The Grove Collective. They understand the importance of NIL. They are all in. We have to get to that point.

Dead on. Ole Miss made it "cool" to say you are part of the collective. We're called "idiots" for giving to it or asking others to give to it. They want to win and win big. I just don't think our average fan really cares that much. It sickens me to say that but I don't know what else to think based on the NIL discussion we have seen play out over the last 12 months.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Dead on. Ole Miss made it "cool" to say you are part of the collective. We're called "idiots" for giving to it or asking others to give to it. They want to win and win big. I just don't think our average fan really cares that much. It sickens me to say that but I don't know what else to think based on the NIL discussion we have seen play out over the last 12 months.

Our avg fans wants benefits with his $100 donation and theirs don't. That simple. They give and let Walker and his group do the work. Ours want info or they won't give. We also have folks that would rather bitch and complain about the problem than do something about it. And unfortunately that number in our fans is in the tens of thousands instead of the tens. I've said since day 1 that you can complain, but if you're not giving and you're complaining then you're part of the problem. And every time I'm met with how much they've given the university over the years and that has earned them the right to complain. What I can't get them to see is that ALL OF THAT went out the window July 1, 2021. Everything you did prior to that moment does not matter in this new landscape.

[phatdog]

I could care less about this shit

[Tbonewannabe]

MSU's marketing is always lightyears behind everyone else, especially Ole Miss. It is like our university looks at it as a necessary evil and others embrace it.

Its is almost like the mindset is that is bragging and we don't want to brag or "showboat". We need to get with the times or we will be left out.

[Todd4State]

I think the stuff like pickle ball and etc.- if you bring it to Charlie's attention he is good at listening to ideas and implementing them.

[Todd4State]

Our avg fans wants benefits with his $100 donation and theirs don't. That simple. They give and let Walker and his group do the work. Ours want info or they won't give. We also have folks that would rather bitch and complain about the problem than do something about it. And unfortunately that number in our fans is in the tens of thousands instead of the tens. I've said since day 1 that you can complain, but if you're not giving and you're complaining then you're part of the problem. And every time I'm met with how much they've given the university over the years and that has earned them the right to complain. What I can't get them to see is that ALL OF THAT went out the window July 1, 2021. Everything you did prior to that moment does not matter in this new landscape.

And then when it's under the University umbrella they're going to be fine paying the Bulldog Club the extra 500 dollars when the dues go up at that time.

[parabrave]

No. NIL in its current state, which is pay for play, should be the burden of the university. Unfortunately, that is not the case so the fans have to carry that burden or your team will SUCK. I get why people are frustrated, I do. But if we continually count on others to foot the bill then we are going to be left for dead in a matter of months, not years. We have to get serious and get rowing in the same direction on this. I get it sucks and it is not right for everything to be on the onus of the average fan, but that is the world we live in. You have to get busy livin or get busy dyin.

The NIL was begun as the players/lawyers getting their hands on the TV money and other "royalties" from shirts sales and other likenesses ie EA Sports. It was never meant as play for pay/ But NCAA and schools will never part with any of the golden goose so they allowed the fans to burden the costs. The more outrageous this gets the more the fans will say fuc it. By the way the Texas schools and Bama have always been pay for play and they have underachieved until they got great coaches. So yes coaching does matter.

[Maverick91]

I can agree with your sentiment and overall issue. But I do think it is way more of a branding/marketing issue than anything else. I have always been puzzled not at our branding or marketing, I think when we see it it's pretty good. My issue is at the lack of it, in a day and time when people get behind you purely off of what you put out there as a message of who you are we are grossly behind the curve as you pointed out. Long gone are the days of "just win" you still have to win but you also have to have the marketing down and people have to see it in a regular basis. I feel like this is way more of an athletic department using their funds correctly than anything else.

I don't know what our marketing budget is, how many people we have, anything but it needs to be ramped up.

[Cooterpoot]

NIL isn't on the list of top 3 problems with our recruiting. Location and history are the top two by a mile & then some poor recruiters on staff would be the top three.

[StarkVegasSteve]

The NIL was begun as the players/lawyers getting their hands on the TV money and other "royalties" from shirts sales and other likenesses ie EA Sports. It was never meant as play for pay/ But NCAA and schools will never part with any of the golden goose so they allowed the fans to burden the costs. The more outrageous this gets the more the fans will say fuc it. By the way the Texas schools and Bama have always been pay for play and they have underachieved until they got great coaches. So yes coaching does matter.

None of what you said is wrong. It is pay for play. There's no doubt. But the Pandora's box was opened and there's no going back. This is the new reality of college sports until the schools start paying for it, and that could be years. I mean can we really afford to just wait for the US GOVERNMENT to solve the problem? No. We have to change the way we think about this stuff. Like I said, we can't sit on our hands and wait for someone else to solve the problem. We have to do something so un-Mississippi State. We have to take initiative and solve the problem. And it starts at a grassroots level by trusting the people that run it. Maybe that is Charlie holding an annual BI summit, maybe it is giving those $100-$500 yearly donators more opportunities to see where their investments go or at least feel like their involved. I don't know because I'm not in charge of it. I don't know what they talk about behind closed doors. I can get cliffnotes of it, but until you're in those meetings you truly don't know what's being said.

[gtowndawg]

I think the stuff like pickle ball and etc.- if you bring it to Charlie's attention he is good at listening to ideas and implementing them.

It's hard I know, the man has a law practice. There's only so much time in the day. But we treat NIL like the high school band booster club. Ole Miss treats it like a Fortune 500 company.

[StarkVegasSteve]

NIL isn't on the list of top 3 problems with our recruiting. Location and history are the top two by a mile & then some poor recruiters on staff would be the top three.

THANK YOU. Starkville is a problem that a lot of people do not want to admit. And not the town itself. It's location and marketing of the town. Oxford is surrounded by the exact same thing Starkville.....NOTHING. However, they market Oxford 1000x better than we market Starkville.

It also hurts that we don't have the best recruiters on staff. David Turner is a recruiting anchor at the moment. Offensively I think we have really good recruiters. Defensively.....not so much.

[gtowndawg]

NIL isn't on the list of top 3 problems with our recruiting. Location and history are the top two by a mile & then some poor recruiters on staff would be the top three.

Respectfully, we have fought it out over the years for some huge recruits and won. Same location and same history (but agreed, probably some better recruiters at that time). Obviously coaching churn plays a role into some problems. But part of "crootin" now is how much money you have to play. Naturally having a good staff to coach them is equally important.

[gtowndawg]

THANK YOU. Starkville is a problem that a lot of people do not want to admit. And not the town itself. It's location and marketing of the town. Oxford is surrounded by the exact same thing Starkville.....NOTHING. However, they market Oxford 1000x better than we market Starkville.

It also hurts that we don't have the best recruiters on staff. David Turner is a recruiting anchor at the moment. Offensively I think we have really good recruiters. Defensively.....not so much.

We know so many people from Memphis with kids at State. Tons. Most of them had no connection to the school but it's pretty close and they work hard to waive out of state tuition so it attracts many from Memphis. All of the families go on and on about how great Starkville is (because they have never been). It's a great place to many outsiders but as you say, we don't do much to build that reputation like Ole Miss and Oxford have done over the past 20 years.

edited: I think the school has made some steps in that direction, just a bit slow.

[Cooterpoot]

Respectfully, we have fought it out over the years for some huge recruits and won. Same location and same history (but agreed, probably some better recruiters at that time). Obviously coaching churn plays a role into some problems. But part of "crootin" now is how much money you have to play. Naturally having a good staff to coach them is equally important.

This ain't 2010 anymore and we've never signed a bunch of 4/5 star players anyway. We got a couple here and there but that's it. Money is only a part of the process, it's not a be all, end all situation like some think. That's not to say we don't need to grow NIL, but it's still just a part.

[StarkVegasSteve]

We know so many people from Memphis with kids at State. Tons. Most of them had no connection to the school but it's pretty close and they work hard to waive out of state tuition so it attracts many from Memphis. All of the families go on and on about how great Starkville is (because they have never been). It's a great place to many outsiders but as you say, we don't do much to build that reputation like Ole Miss and Oxford have done over the past 20 years.

edited: I think the school has made some steps in that direction, just a bit slow.


I've said it multiple times over the last few years, especially since I moved to the DFW area, we do a shit job going after out of state students. And you tell this to folks who work in the administration and they thumb their nose at you and try to prove you wrong by saying we get lots of kids from Tennessee and Alabama. The reason I bring that up is because Ole Miss does embrace out of state and that increases their message about Oxford and the brand all through the South and the country. That is one of the big reasons that Oxford is decades ahead of Starkville. They saw the need for gameday condos 20 years before Mississippi State. They started building and these out of state people started buying. This brought their friends to Oxford and it left an impact. They went back and started talking up Oxford and it gets in people's minds. There will probably be 500-1000 kids from the DFW area alone that will attend OM next fall. There may be 50-100 that attend Mississippi State. Add in to that there will probably another 500-1000 from Georgia that will attend OM.

PERCEPTION MATTERS.

[DEDawg]

Why do people keep complaining about NIL? Go listen to Hadad and Faulks show today. They said the one recruit turned down astronomically more money from us and went to Oregon state. Our NIL is fine for being the poorest state in the union. Our brand and image is the thing holding us back

taking one cherry picked outlier doesn't mean anything

[Cooterpoot]

Mississippi State and Starkville suck at marketing! Starkville is a cool town. The town itself isn't a huge problem except it costs a small fortune to live there. Being in BFE MS is a huge problem.
It's a drive no matter where you live. But damnit! Winning cures a lot of problems and we need to rebuild this program the last three staffs killed.

[Brobi-wan]

Correct. Until this is all brought under the university umbrella you either have to give to the BDC or NIL. Right now, the choice needs to be NIL. If you don't have the resources to give to both, and a lot of people don't, then give the minimum seat donation to the BDC if you have tickets and give the rest to NIL. It sucks and I get that, but it's unfortunately the landscape college athletics are in. We can only hit up Richard Rula, Richard Adkerson, Heath Jenkins, Billy Howard, etc. for so much. This is where OM has us whipped right now. Everyone from Dickie Scruggs, David Nutt, and Jerry Hollingsworth on down to the young alumni that I know out here in Dallas are giving to The Grove Collective. They understand the importance of NIL. They are all in. We have to get to that point.

This is how OM already operated there stuff. Making it legal was the cherry on top. Not saying we didn?t cheat too before NIL?we just weren?t nearly as good at it.

[Coach34]

NIL isn't on the list of top 3 problems with our recruiting. Location and history are the top two by a mile & then some poor recruiters on staff would be the top three.

Location is a killer for us and always has been. But now seeing people take less money to go to other schools really puts it in perspective

[Coach34]

taking one cherry picked outlier doesn't mean anything

It's not one cherry picked outlier. It's happening in all 3 sports

[SilentSteel16]

I believe Lebby still thinks he is at OU or one of his other stops. The HS recruiting that he is doing is not in line with kids unless we are the “dream school”. I have direct information and knowledge of the “once you get here and get on the field, we will hook you up NIL”. NIL is not what you think it is, NIL is not being used as recruiting bait like some of you perceive it to be. I am sure we are breaking the bank on the likes of Cunningham and a few other national level recruits but the 3/4 star guys which are and have been our bread and butter are being told the above statement.

[SilentSteel16]

States NIL is going to kids that are soph/juniors to try and keep them here. We are far lacking on HS recruiting. NIL is more of a retention plan than a recruiting plan. Other schools are recruiting out in state guys much harder and actually offering NIL to our in state guys, Hell Mario (who is a national recruit) was offered less than 15k to sign when other schools out of state were triple that

[StarkVegasSteve]

States NIL is going to kids that are soph/juniors to try and keep them here. We are far lacking on HS recruiting. NIL is more of a retention plan than a recruiting plan. Other schools are recruiting out in state guys much harder and actually offering NIL to our in state guys, Hell Mario (who is a national recruit) was offered less than 15k to sign when other schools out of state were triple that

Lebby has worked to change that. We got MVB due to Lebby and NIL being competitive to what he was getting at Oregon. Under Leach and Arnett the plan was 1000% to just use NIL for retention. Lebby came in and immediately worked to change that. So I do know that will be better this offseason. Also on Nash, I mean why would we overpay if we can get him for what we got him for? Sounds like it would've been like bidding against ourselves.

[Bert Stare]

I love MSU football, but I will never give a dime to NIL. Every extra cent I earn goes to help out either people waiting for organ transplants or people traveling to become living donors. Many of you give to similar situations with St Jude or just your neighbor who needs medical bill help. We have collectively lost our way for humanity when you are shaming others into giving money to a teenage athlete so he can get the more premium package on his dodge hellcat.

I don't give a damn if we go 2-10 every year. I ain't ever giving to NIL. biggest scam with the absolute least in return you can find.

Help people who actually need it.

[MoreCowbell]

Serious question, if I gave 25k to the NIL fun tomorrow what tangible difference could I see that I made?

[StarkVegasSteve]

I love MSU football, but I will never give a dime to NIL. Every extra cent I earn goes to help out either people waiting for organ transplants or people traveling to become living donors. Many of you give to similar situations with St Jude or just your neighbor who needs medical bill help. We have collectively lost our way for humanity when you are shaming others into giving money to a teenage athlete so he can get the more premium package on his dodge hellcat.

I don't give a damn if we go 2-10 every year. I ain't ever giving to NIL. biggest scam with the absolute least in return you can find.

Help people who actually need it.

Thank you Bert. We appreciate your opinion on the subject matter. Now when is Billy Napier selling that Starkville house he bought 5 years ago? Or the Oxford house he bought 3 years ago? Or the house he has in Gainesville? Or the house in Columbia, SC? I'd really like to jump on those listings.

You telling someone to spend their money one way is no different than me telling someone to spend it another. However, since this is a MISSISSIPPI STATE MESSAGE BOARD some of us do see it pertinent to discuss NIL. At the end of the day, it is the right of the person who owns the money to spend it however they want.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Serious question, if I gave 25k to the NIL fun tomorrow what tangible difference could I see that I made?

You would probably have a bit more access than the avg fan. You could actually dictate where you wanted your money to go also.

[MoreCowbell]

Having a hard time thinking of a school in the big 2.5 conferences that NIL era has been affected as bad as it seems we have. Small alumni base, not a lot of money. Like Kentucky sucks but they have a large base and some big donors. Same with Arkansas. We are just in a tough spot.

[gtowndawg]

States NIL is going to kids that are soph/juniors to try and keep them here. We are far lacking on HS recruiting. NIL is more of a retention plan than a recruiting plan. Other schools are recruiting out in state guys much harder and actually offering NIL to our in state guys, Hell Mario (who is a national recruit) was offered less than 15k to sign when other schools out of state were triple that

Agreed. I do think we have to spend the majority to keep proven players (and I'm fine with that strategy). But it doens't leave much in the war chest to go out and compete heavy in the portal to help build the team on top of the talent we retain via NIL. So we are in a perpetual state of just being ok. We keep some good players but don't have much to go around them.

[gtowndawg]

Having a hard time thinking of a school in the big 2.5 conferences that NIL era has been affected as bad as it seems we have. Small alumni base, not a lot of money. Like Kentucky sucks but they have a large base and some big donors. Same with Arkansas. We are just in a tough spot.

I think it's fine to realize what we have to work with - not as much as most of the othe SEC schools. But as stated earlier, if we all had one common goal and we all supported that effort we would be totally fine. Good even. But based on this thread alone I think we see the problem...we are all pulling in a thousand different directions. Ole Miss is not that much different than us, they're not. But they have absoutly convinced their fanbase if they give they are going to win big (and that's paying off for them, literally).

[StarkVegasSteve]

Having a hard time thinking of a school in the big 2.5 conferences that NIL era has been affected as bad as it seems we have. Small alumni base, not a lot of money. Like Kentucky sucks but they have a large base and some big donors. Same with Arkansas. We are just in a tough spot.

We are. We, a lot like OM, have to rely on smaller donations and more of them. The $100-$500 donations are paramount to our success. It's like I've said since this thing got going, which was 24-36 months late(Thank Cohen and Lee Van Horn's dumbass Legacy Group for that), we need to attempt to sign every State fan that walks into DWS up for monthly BI donations. Just $10/month would be $120 a year and just going conservatively that you could sign up 30K for the season would equate to an addt. 3.6 million in NIL funds

[SilentSteel16]

Lebby has worked to change that. We got MVB due to Lebby and NIL being competitive to what he was getting at Oregon. Under Leach and Arnett the plan was 1000% to just use NIL for retention. Lebby came in and immediately worked to change that. So I do know that will be better this offseason. Also on Nash, I mean why would we overpay if we can get him for what we got him for? Sounds like it would've been like bidding against ourselves.

That is exactly my point, with Nash, he has been very vocal about his two dream schools, State and FSU. Lebby is approaching every in state kid just assuming we are their dream school. This strategy is why you are “missing” on in state guys. Also don’t be terribly surprised if there is a flip after the visit to tally in October. FSU is one of the more generous NIL offers to HS kids. No inside track on Nash but I know for fact that they offered way more than State to other in state 25 OL. Just something to chew on.

[BankerDog]

we have a lot more out of state alumni who are a lot more well off than people realize. The problem is our administration doesn?t do a good job of keeping up with who is making the money and who isn?t.

[gtowndawg]

We are. We, a lot like OM, have to rely on smaller donations and more of them. The $100-$500 donations are paramount to our success. It's like I've said since this thing got going, which was 24-36 months late(Thank Cohen and Lee Van Horn's dumbass Legacy Group for that), we need to attempt to sign every State fan that walks into DWS up for monthly BI donations. Just $10/month would be $120 a year and just going conservatively that you could sign up 30K for the season would equate to an addt. 3.6 million in NIL funds

Correct. I'm not asking anyone to sell a car and give to the NIL, that's crazy. I'm saying do $10 per month. Are Miss. State fans really that bad off they can't do $10 a month? It's an honest question. Or is it just, well, I'm going to call it jealousy, that a college player makes good money and drives a nice car perhaps? Heck, I can assure you there are players driving a nicer car than I do, I don't care. But when you have two in private school and one in college the car doesn't seem to matter much anymore lol.

[StarkVegasSteve]

That is exactly my point, with Nash, he has been very vocal about his two dream schools, State and FSU. Lebby is approaching every in state kid just assuming we are their dream school. This strategy is why you are “missing” on in state guys. Also don’t be terribly surprised if there is a flip after the visit to tally in October. FSU is one of the more generous NIL offers to HS kids. No inside track on Nash but I know for fact that they offered way more than State to other in state 25 OL. Just something to chew on.

Again though, if he committed to us, why would we be bidding against ourselves? I mean if he came to us and said "Hey FSU offered X amount, I'm going to need more" or we upped his offer so he wouldn't visit FSU then that is a different story. Happened all the times in the under the table days and you and I both know that all to well. My point was, why would we go to the kid and say "hey I know we gave you X amount but we just feel like upping that 10K now even though you have never played a snap of CFB". .

[oildawg]

gtowndawg - I think you are exactly right. I was at the Arizona State game, in row 2 - and was able to watch Lebby's reaction during the game. I was really impressed with his demeanor, and who he spoke with - how he approached players in the right way. I left the game thinking, we've got a great coach - we need to give him the NIL to compete.

If you normalize things like talent evaluation, I wonder how much it would cost to land a competitive SEC roster. There's probably a cost for lower tier talent, middle tier and top tier. Believe Ohio State was noted for having a $20 million roster - and they're in playoff contention. I don't have any inside information here - but could $10 million buy us at least a middle tier roster? One way to get there is for 1000 fans (maybe top 1000 Bulldog Club members) to donate $10,000 to get to $10 million. Or, 10,000 fans to give $1000...... Or any type of combination like that.....

[SilentSteel16]

I am agreeing with you, I am more on the lines of saying Lebby and Co are seemingly more into transfers than hs recruiting unless it is a splash type player. I think the homegrown 3 star kids starting Jr/Sr year after being developed are over for college athletics thanks to portal

[StarkVegasSteve]

I am agreeing with you, I am more on the lines of saying Lebby and Co are seemingly more into transfers than hs recruiting unless it is a splash type player. I think the homegrown 3 star kids starting Jr/Sr year after being developed are over for college athletics thanks to portal

I think you are right. I think he is taking the Lane approach. Picking HS recruits here and there but mostly focusing on transfers. And honestly, if you can find multi year transfers, that may be the approach

[gtowndawg]

gtowndawg - I think you are exactly right. I was at the Arizona State game, in row 2 - and was able to watch Lebby's reaction during the game. I was really impressed with his demeanor, and who he spoke with - how he approached players in the right way. I left the game thinking, we've got a great coach - we need to give him the NIL to compete.

If you normalize things like talent evaluation, I wonder how much it would cost to land a competitive SEC roster. There's probably a cost for lower tier talent, middle tier and top tier. Believe Ohio State was noted for having a $20 million roster - and they're in playoff contention. I don't have any inside information here - but could $10 million buy us at least a middle tier roster? One way to get there is for 1000 fans (maybe top 1000 Bulldog Club members) to donate $10,000 to get to $10 million. Or, 10,000 fans to give $1000...... Or any type of combination like that.....

Thank you! I have faith in Lebby, I think he can be a really good coach but he needs studs to compete in this league. As I said earlier, we can do this, we just need a clear vision and have people commit to a small amount every year. I think we can even get the debbie downers on board if we do this right!

[StarkVegasSteve]

gtowndawg - I think you are exactly right. I was at the Arizona State game, in row 2 - and was able to watch Lebby's reaction during the game. I was really impressed with his demeanor, and who he spoke with - how he approached players in the right way. I left the game thinking, we've got a great coach - we need to give him the NIL to compete.

If you normalize things like talent evaluation, I wonder how much it would cost to land a competitive SEC roster. There's probably a cost for lower tier talent, middle tier and top tier. Believe Ohio State was noted for having a $20 million roster - and they're in playoff contention. I don't have any inside information here - but could $10 million buy us at least a middle tier roster? One way to get there is for 1000 fans (maybe top 1000 Bulldog Club members) to donate $10,000 to get to $10 million. Or, 10,000 fans to give $1000...... Or any type of combination like that.....

$10 million would buy you a playoff berth out of all likelihood. From what I've heard, again take it fwiw, but our NIL for football is around 8 mil. OM is between 10-12, Bama and Georgia are in the high teens, and LSU is between 12-15. Everyone else is around us so getting the right players at our current level would help us.

That's why getting say 30K to donate just $10/month could put us in that playoff contention race. I mean that extra amt would've had us in the Cam Ward sweepstakes. It probably would've been enough to throw so much at Gabriel that he would've been stupid to not come here, we were his highest offer btw. But that's the difference.

[SilentSteel16]

If they want to take portions of my BDC fees and put that to NIL I have no problem, if they want to take parking pass fees or season ticket holder fees and put that to NiL I am fine with that too. However I will not give a single penny directly to NIL…… just my 2 cents. I know I am not alone on this either, everyone in the stands seated around me, one of them has been a ticket holder since ‘64 completely walk away if NIL is mentioned. I actually know a guy who got out of his seats and BDC due to todays state of collegiate athletics. He said he makes a one time donation a year to AG dept now with that money.

[SilentSteel16]

However, if they were to do that with season tickets, the proceeds for those tickets better go to that sport. I have ST to football, m and W basketball and baseball. Those funds should not go to just football.

[DEDawg]

It's not one cherry picked outlier. It's happening in all 3 sports

it doesn't matter, that is a completely separate issue. Having more money in the NIL fund will equal more and better talent on campus. Starkville being located in Tampa Bay also would equal more and better talent on campus. They are separate issues that need to be bifurcated out. Saying you won't donate to NIL because it doesn't matter, kids won't come to Starkville is not the right way to tackle this issue.

[DEDawg]

Serious question, if I gave 25k to the NIL fun tomorrow what tangible difference could I see that I made?

you most likely can add some stipulations at that point. If you said i will give you 25k but I want it to go to a HS DL recruit, I imagine they would make that happen.

[StarkVegasSteve]

If they want to take portions of my BDC fees and put that to NIL I have no problem, if they want to take parking pass fees or season ticket holder fees and put that to NiL I am fine with that too. However I will not give a single penny directly to NIL…… just my 2 cents. I know I am not alone on this either, everyone in the stands seated around me, one of them has been a ticket holder since ‘64 completely walk away if NIL is mentioned. I actually know a guy who got out of his seats and BDC due to todays state of collegiate athletics. He said he makes a one time donation a year to AG dept now with that money.

But they can't do that at the present moment. It's illegal. So I guess my question is, why would you be ok with them doing it but are so against doing it yourself? I'm genuinely curious. And I think you and I have had this conversation before in another thread: I am ok with you not supporting NIL. It is your decision completely. You seem very passionate in your arguments against it.

[StarkVegasSteve]

However, if they were to do that with season tickets, the proceeds for those tickets better go to that sport. I have ST to football, m and W basketball and baseball. Those funds should not go to just football.

I wouldn't have a problem doing that with football and men's basketball because they turn a profit. However, baseball barely brakes even(and sometimes doesn't) and women's basketball loses around 2 mil a year. Should season ticket proceeds for those sports SOLELY go to those respective sports or should some come back to the two sports who pay for everything else at the university. I'm not saying none of it goes to those sports, but I don't necessarily think all of it should go to the sports that lose money.

[SilentSteel16]

But they can't do that at the present moment. It's illegal. So I guess my question is, why would you be ok with them doing it but are so against doing it yourself? I'm genuinely curious. And I think you and I have had this conversation before in another thread: I am ok with you not supporting NIL. It is your decision completely. You seem very passionate in your arguments against it.

As I have said numerous times before, I personally get something out of my tickets. My kids do as well, my grandkids will as well. So my “bending” here is solely due to my seats and tickets not changing. If I have that money to NIL, instead of my seats, then I am giving up the ability to have my grandson sit in the seat that his great grandfather sat in during his time with those seats. Those seats have become a “legacy seating” for my family. I look forward to the coming games with them. I already give way too much money now to keep those seats due to RSD. I won’t be giving it to a kid that may or may not even be on the team 1 year from now.

Call me selfish if you like but I get something out of where my money is currently going, I got a T-shirt and hat when we won the national championship in baseball….. I have plenty of hats and shirts, only a five seats that have any meaning to me. Hail State

[SilentSteel16]

I wouldn't have a problem doing that with football and men's basketball because they turn a profit. However, baseball barely brakes even(and sometimes doesn't) and women's basketball loses around 2 mil a year. Should season ticket proceeds for those sports SOLELY go to those respective sports or should some come back to the two sports who pay for everything else at the university. I'm not saying none of it goes to those sports, but I don't necessarily think all of it should go to the sports that lose money.

However without that said sport, State would not have gotten that money to begin with….. I know an older couple that ONLY have season tickets for women’s basketball, so you’re saying that their money for those seats should not go to women’s basketball but to another sport that those ST holders don’t even support?

[StarkVegasSteve]

As I have said numerous times before, I personally get something out of my tickets. My kids do as well, my grandkids will as well. So my “bending” here is solely due to my seats and tickets not changing. If I have that money to NIL, instead of my seats, then I am giving up the ability to have my grandson sit in the seat that his great grandfather sat in during his time with those seats. Those seats have become a “legacy seating” for my family. I look forward to the coming games with them. I already give way too much money now to keep those seats due to RSD. I won’t be giving it to a kid that may or may not even be on the team 1 year from now.

Call me selfish if you like but I get something out of where my money is currently going, I got a T-shirt and hat when we won the national championship in baseball….. I have plenty of hats and shirts, only a five seats that have any meaning to me. Hail State

That makes complete sense and I see where you are coming from. You want to get something out of your payment. Do you think us doing something like an annual BI Summit or getting gear would convince you to give. Like let's say if you give $50/month for the year then you'll get a BI quarter zip in December and a BI polo in August? This is something they have looked at doing

[StarkVegasSteve]

However without that said sport, State would not have gotten that money to begin with….. I know an older couple that ONLY have season tickets for women’s basketball, so you’re saying that their money for those seats should not go to women’s basketball but to another sport that those ST holders don’t even support?

No I'm saying ALL the money wouldn't go to that sport. For example, 80 cents of every dollar would go to women's basketball. Then 15 cents to football and 5 cents to men's basketball.

[SilentSteel16]

Me personally, no. But I do think you will get some people to look at NIL differently. I think that if you could somehow legally utilize RSD or any of the administrative fees associated with season tickets which there are many, and took those fees (fund) and put it to BI or something of the like, it would be universally accepted because it is not costing the average fan more money to contribute to just buying players for a year or so.

[Matt3467]

I love MSU football, but I will never give a dime to NIL. Every extra cent I earn goes to help out either people waiting for organ transplants or people traveling to become living donors. Many of you give to similar situations with St Jude or just your neighbor who needs medical bill help. We have collectively lost our way for humanity when you are shaming others into giving money to a teenage athlete so he can get the more premium package on his dodge hellcat.

I don't give a damn if we go 2-10 every year. I ain't ever giving to NIL. biggest scam with the absolute least in return you can find.

Help people who actually need it.

Best post I've read from you. I agree with you as well.

I enjoy MSU football, and it's been great following it for the past 3 decades. I don't think asking the fanbase to fund this ridiculous system and then ostracizing those that don't by saying they've forfeited their right to an opinion on the team is right. These kids are given so much already, and I'm expected to pay for them to live a luxurious college lifestyle or our team is going to suck. I realize this is happening everywhere and if we were all LSU fans I doubt we'd be commenting on a thread like this but for MSU even if we field a team for the next 100yrs and things don't change this is a death nail.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Me personally, no. But I do think you will get some people to look at NIL differently. I think that if you could somehow legally utilize RSD or any of the administrative fees associated with season tickets which there are many, and took those fees (fund) and put it to BI or something of the like, it would be universally accepted because it is not costing the average fan more money to contribute to just buying players for a year or so.

And look I do not like this just as much as some who are vehemently against it. I mean I worked in college to have some extra money on the weekends, granted it was an on campus office job so I was not roughing it by any means. But I am not crazy about the idea that I am basically just funding a football player’s off campus condo. But I know if I do not do that, then some fan of a rival school will. And I am not giving the amount of money that makes any sort of tangible difference but I know that there are 1000s that give what I give so I see it as doing my part.

[Bert Stare]

Best post I've read from you. I agree with you as well.

I enjoy MSU football, and it's been great following it for the past 3 decades. I don't think asking the fanbase to fund this ridiculous system and then ostracizing those that don't by saying they've forfeited their right to an opinion on the team is right. These kids are given so much already, and I'm expected to pay for them to live a luxurious college lifestyle or our team is going to suck. I realize this is happening everywhere and if we were all LSU fans I doubt we'd be commenting on a thread like this but for MSU even if we field a team for the next 100yrs and things don't change this is a death nail.

I actually understand where StarkVegasSteve and the others are coming from in that if we don't support NIL, then some other school will. I just can't wrap my head around how this became all on the fans to financially support. I am all for paying the players and even them getting rich. I am not for the fans footing the bill when we are fleeced enough already. With the TV money and the profits MSU makes on games, I see zero reason for me to move my expendable income from stuff that actually matters into stuff that doesn't.

[SilentSteel16]

I actually understand where StarkVegasSteve and the others are coming from in that if we don't support NIL, then some other school will. I just can't wrap my head around how this became all on the fans to financially support. I am all for paying the players and even them getting rich. I am not for the fans footing the bill when we are fleeced enough already. With the TV money and the profits MSU makes on games, I see zero reason for me to move my expendable income from stuff that actually matters into stuff that doesn't.


Well said….

[Ranchdawg]

I know for fact that back in the day of college recruiting when payments to the players were under the table that most of the time that money went to the player’s/recruit’s parents, grandparents or whoever their person directing that kid. The reason I know this is because I was approached multiple times to donate to this slush fund. I was told who it was going to and how much. That’s why the Cam Newton money was being asked for by a person in the Cam Newton camp/crowd. Yes the money that was eventually paid by Auburn and was donated to Cam’s dad’s church so as to leave no money trail to Cam.

But back in those days I knew of one high profile recruit that we bought. The money actually went to the recruits momma and it was in the form of a whole house full of new furniture. While the bears up the hwy were doing the same except they were giving recruits momma’s houses to live in and giving relatives of players jobs at the school. The bears have always been way ahead of us buying players.

I didn’t donate then because I thought it was slimy and foolish to give my hard earned money to kids that it didn’t even know. Plus I had my own kids to give money to. Two which graduated from State and another attended. Now my kids (5) are grown, I’m retired and have grandkids (9) to give money to. One grandkid is a cheerleader at State and she is in constant need of money because of cheerleading for our great university, school work (presidents list) and no time for part time job. Yes a member of the Bulldog club and season ticket holder for more years than I can remember.

[Dawgface]

I love MSU football, but I will never give a dime to NIL. Every extra cent I earn goes to help out either people waiting for organ transplants or people traveling to become living donors. Many of you give to similar situations with St Jude or just your neighbor who needs medical bill help. We have collectively lost our way for humanity when you are shaming others into giving money to a teenage athlete so he can get the more premium package on his dodge hellcat.

I don't give a damn if we go 2-10 every year. I ain't ever giving to NIL. biggest scam with the absolute least in return you can find.

Help people who actually need it.

Well said. I feel exactly the same.

[StarkVegasSteve]

I actually understand where StarkVegasSteve and the others are coming from in that if we don't support NIL, then some other school will. I just can't wrap my head around how this became all on the fans to financially support. I am all for paying the players and even them getting rich. I am not for the fans footing the bill when we are fleeced enough already. With the TV money and the profits MSU makes on games, I see zero reason for me to move my expendable income from stuff that actually matters into stuff that doesn't.

Hey that we can agree on. I think it's asinine that the fans are being asked to fully fund this when the university is making money hand over foot in terms of ticket sales, BDC donations, tv contract money, etc. It needs to be fixed so that the universities are the one's footing the bill. I feel like the second that happens, a lot of this will be reigned in. However, we can't die in the meantime of that happening.

[Goldendawg]

I don't know how many of y'all are season ticket holders in MSU sports as geography may prevent attendance but contributions are generously made anyway. My famiy members are in the 6th decade of being season ticket holders (8 to 12 tickets over the years, 8 now) in FB. Bulldog Club fees (seating fees per season ticket), to buy the tickets are north of $5K, along with 2 parking passes. Unless it has changed BC fees pay for the scholarship costs of all MSU "student athletes" (a real joke now in major sports) and help supplement coaching salaries among other costs. After watching a rookie HC (but I think Lebby can turn things around, a rookie DC ( jury out on him, 3-3-5 for 3 1/2 quarters while giving up 8 or so ypg), lack of talent & little depth in the DL, & a portal OL that is not up to SEC standards, I told my MSU son I was cancelling my NIL today. After cooling off, I will let it ride a while longer. I have also received nothing from the BI but an email that my credit card account has been debited or my enrollment continued. I understand info being kept close to the vest or our opponents could use our financial position against us. Without Charlie Winfield we would be in a real mess. It does bother me in these threads to see posters telling other MSU fans how to spent their $ in these NIL/Portal years, even Pro athletes. All should do what they want and choose. BTW, when joining the BI, you can designate the % you want to any sport. I chose FB, 100% (pays all the bills except mens basketball). Hail State! My 6-6 floor, 7-5 ceiling has quickly changed to 3-9 floor & 5-7 ceiling unless we get things together quickly.

[HancockCountyDog]

$10 million would buy you a playoff berth out of all likelihood. From what I've heard, again take it fwiw, but our NIL for football is around 8 mil. OM is between 10-12, Bama and Georgia are in the high teens, and LSU is between 12-15. Everyone else is around us so getting the right players at our current level would help us.

Here is my problem - lets say you are right and our NIL is 8 and the bears is 10. We might win 4 games this year. They might win 9-10 games.

The ratio isn't working. If we are at 8, then our team should be close to the bears instead of a 20+ underdog to them.

That is my biggest problem. ITs not a situation where we don't have the funds, its how we are spending it. I mean, its like FSU and DJ, word is that he is getting close to a million dollars from FSU. How much are we paying Shapen and the OL? I've been told it is significant.

Who are we paying on defense other than the few already listed?

[Goldendawg]

If we are paying even $8 million in NIL on this lack of talent FB team (results to date), someone couldn't evaluate. Leach and Arnett left the DL cupboard bare and all we could bring in were Purdue & NC St players who didn't even start or get much PT there? Nom wonder we gave up 8 plus ypc last Saturday!

[StarkVegasSteve]

If we are paying even $8 million in NIL on this lack of talent FB team (results to date), someone couldn't evaluate. Leach and Arnett left the DL cupboard bare and all we could bring in were Purdue & NC St players who didn't even start or get much PT there? Nom wonder we gave up 8 plus ypc last Saturday!

I did not say we were paying 8 mil. I said that is what the fund is rumored to be at. You need strong NIL but you also need players that want to play for you.

[Goldendawg]

I did not say we were paying 8 mil. I said that is what the fund is rumored to be at. You need strong NIL but you also need players that want to play for you.

That type player is a dinosaur in the Portal/NIL world. It is what it is, but I have noticed more discipline issues on and off the field with a focus on "Me" and not "Team" since they have officially become paid players. I even witnessed a heated argument between a player and a coach, (Tahoe) and player, (Charger) over his NIL at Starkville Sprintmart last FB season. I think we have a new FB HC that can handle building a team in this setting. Time will tell.

[Todd4State]

Here is my problem - lets say you are right and our NIL is 8 and the bears is 10. We might win 4 games this year. They might win 9-10 games.

The ratio isn't working. If we are at 8, then our team should be close to the bears instead of a 20+ underdog to them.

That is my biggest problem. ITs not a situation where we don't have the funds, its how we are spending it. I mean, its like FSU and DJ, word is that he is getting close to a million dollars from FSU. How much are we paying Shapen and the OL? I've been told it is significant.

Who are we paying on defense other than the few already listed?

NIL is only one piece. The coaches have to do their part too. The evaluation of players in the portal is underrated thing that Kiffin is good at.

[gtowndawg]

NIL is only one piece. The coaches have to do their part too. The evaluation of players in the portal is underrated thing that Kiffin is good at.

100% - let's get the money in place but the coaches have to do their job to evaluate the portal and recruit to a vision.

[Brobi-wan]

NIL is only one piece. The coaches have to do their part too. The evaluation of players in the portal is underrated thing that Kiffin is good at.

I think we have the right HC. We only won 5 in Dan?s first year, but we could see the improvement. If the same thing happens here, I think most of us will be happy. We just need to get the base to contribute. How do we do that? Do we host something? The question is how to organize it for the masses/bring awareness.

[LC Dawg]

In the last couple of years I've had a little extra monthly income that I considered giving to the BI but decided to give it to our local animal shelter because of my distaste for NIL. After more consideration I recently decided to also give a minimal amount to the BI because I do enjoy when we are successful at athletics and figured I could be a very very small part. However, if something is not done in the next few years I will probably look somewhere else to spend my entertainment $$ because the current system is not sustainable.

[DEDawg]

Here is my problem - lets say you are right and our NIL is 8 and the bears is 10. We might win 4 games this year. They might win 9-10 games.

The ratio isn't working. If we are at 8, then our team should be close to the bears instead of a 20+ underdog to them.

That is my biggest problem. ITs not a situation where we don't have the funds, its how we are spending it. I mean, its like FSU and DJ, word is that he is getting close to a million dollars from FSU. How much are we paying Shapen and the OL? I've been told it is significant.

Who are we paying on defense other than the few already listed?

We are in new territory. Whoever posted the 2020 Kiffin record is dead on, that is where we are right now. Leach didn?t play the NIL game effectively and Arnett would?ve lost 8 games with a 15M budget he was that bad. I truly believe we have the right coach in Lebby now to do real damage if the NIL supports him to build the roster.

[Cooterpoot]

Here is my problem - lets say you are right and our NIL is 8 and the bears is 10. We might win 4 games this year. They might win 9-10 games.

The ratio isn't working. If we are at 8, then our team should be close to the bears instead of a 20+ underdog to them.

That is my biggest problem. ITs not a situation where we don't have the funds, its how we are spending it. I mean, its like FSU and DJ, word is that he is getting close to a million dollars from FSU. How much are we paying Shapen and the OL? I've been told it is significant.

Who are we paying on defense other than the few already listed?

We just had a couple HCs who destroyed our recruiting and left nothing here. They've been building their program and winning games. You won't suddenly catch up. You can't spend that much or get that kind of talent at one time.

[memsu06]

At all the concession sales at any sporting event to raise NIL money they should ask if you want to round up your purchase to the nearest dollar for the NIL. Say we have 40K fans at just one football game and 1/2 of them round up say average of 50 cents. That would be $10K per football game going to the NIL. It would add up with all the other sporting events going on.

[Todd4State]

I think we have the right HC. We only won 5 in Dan?s first year, but we could see the improvement. If the same thing happens here, I think most of us will be happy. We just need to get the base to contribute. How do we do that? Do we host something? The question is how to organize it for the masses/bring awareness.

If what is being said is correct as far as NIL it seems like we are on the right path there. Not there yet- but we need to stay on course and continue to encourage people to give. The thing about NIL is our fans as individuals don't have to give a ton to have an impact. And the other thing is just because we give and the team doesn't perform- that isn't our boosters fault even if they are giving a small amount because they are doing their part. I say that because I have seen some "Well if I give and we lose it's my fault." other places. Which is kind of crazy.

I think what we need to do at this point is:

1. Continue to build our NIL. If it is true that we didn't spend it all then we should have more to spend this offseason. Also, saving isn't always the worst thing. It may come back to help us down the road in say 2027 if it looks like we have a real chance at a playoff bid and we need an elite player or two to get us over the top.

2. At the end of the season MSU just needs to evaluate where the team is. Offensively- we look better to me and pretty good so far outside of the first half of Arizona State. Are we the 1989 49ers? No. Not yet. There are a couple of holes but it is year one. Special teams has looked solid overall outside of a couple of shanked kicks which is something to watch going forward but that unit has been maybe the best so far. Defense- that to me is the main issue. It looks like we have some promising young guys to build around like Jones, Issac Smith, Dinkins, and DonTerry. Now we definitely need more. If they were asking my opinion I would probably tell them to go out and find an up and comer or go hire someone like Nate Woody from Army or Shiel Wood from Houston and spend on defense, QB, and RB this offseason. We get an elite DC he may bring a few guys with him from the portal. If we're having issues recruiting running backs- go hire Derrick Nix from Auburn. Lebby has some connections to him.

3. Update Davis Wade as planned. LED lights and etc.

Even if this turns out to be a 3-9 season we need to keep the perspective that this is just year one. We're simply trying to get our footing and establish the program here. If we do go 3-9 it's going to likely be because our defense couldn't legitimately stop that 96 year old dude that ran through our alumni defense in Jackie's first spring game right now. Defense to me is an easier fix than offense.

[Todd4State]

We just had a couple HCs who destroyed our recruiting and left nothing here. They've been building their program and winning games. You won't suddenly catch up. You can't spend that much or get that kind of talent at one time.

A couple? MSU hasn't had a coach that has focused on recruiting like we should since JACKIE. We have/had the lowest recruiting budget in the SEC when Dan was here. Did he do anything about it? Nope. You can't tell me that he can get people to build him an entire football complex but increasing the recruiting budget was out of the question.

Croom was bad but we were on probation for recruiting so of course he was going to scale it back big time. He did get somewhat better although I think saying he was good would be a stretch.

Moorhead could recruit but he couldn't evaluate talent.

Leach didn't care about it but he was as good or better at recruiting than Dan was. And at least with him we knew that whatever we did he was going to coach it up.

Arnett was in over his head and his lying burned him and us.

The REAL issue is MSU's athletic administration has for the past 20 years or so tried to focus on finding some coaching genius to "coach up" a bunch of 3 stars from places like Possum Neck, MS. Actually had a lot of success doing it- Dan had a 10 win season and Leach had a 9 win season, and even Moorhead got us to two bowls and Croom got us to the Liberty Bowl in 2007 which was the goal for MSU at that time. The problem is doing that is it limited our ceiling because the truth is a coaching genius can only coach up players so much against a team like Alabama or Georgia because the talent on those teams will offset any coaching brilliance.

[Todd4State]

At all the concession sales at any sporting event to raise NIL money they should ask if you want to round up your purchase to the nearest dollar for the NIL. Say we have 40K fans at just one football game and 1/2 of them round up say average of 50 cents. That would be $10K per football game going to the NIL. It would add up with all the other sporting events going on.

I think that's a good idea.

It seems like a lot of our fans want access if they donate. In other words- "If I donate I want something in return or see where my investment is going". I think that's fair to a point.

But with that being the case I think they could have several dinners throughout the state- make it nice like a steak dinner or something not catered pulled pork- in places like Jackson, Memphis/DeSoto County, MS Gulf Coast, Tupelo, Meridian, somewhere in the Delta like Greenville or Greenwood, etc. where people pay like 100 dollars per person and all that goes to NIL and then Lebby, some players, some coaches, and maybe some recruiting coordinators basically have a round table where they share stories with the fans and maybe answer questions. With the recruiting thing- I know there are rules and you toe the line there even in this NIL era. Charlie could talk to about the BI as well.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFaHXsjlumw

Something like this.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlzmpMOB-Mw

Or this.

[somebodyshotmypaw]

I love MSU football, but I will never give a dime to NIL. Every extra cent I earn goes to help out either people waiting for organ transplants or people traveling to become living donors. Many of you give to similar situations with St Jude or just your neighbor who needs medical bill help. We have collectively lost our way for humanity when you are shaming others into giving money to a teenage athlete so he can get the more premium package on his dodge hellcat.

I don't give a damn if we go 2-10 every year. I ain't ever giving to NIL. biggest scam with the absolute least in return you can find.

Help people who actually need it.

These are my thoughts also. Very well said. I can give to some stupid teenager who will buy some iPods and a PlayStation with the money. Or I can help someone beat cancer, beat drug addiction, buy clothes after their house burned, or escape a domestic violence situation. Easy decision really.

[gtowndawg]

These are my thoughts also. Very well said. I can give to some stupid teenager who will buy some iPods and a PlayStation with the money. Or I can help someone beat cancer, beat drug addiction, buy clothes after their house burned, or escape a domestic violence situation. Easy decision really.

I honestly don't understand, when did it become an all or nothing sceniaro? I tithe to my church and give monthly to Compassion International but I also give a little to the NIL and heck I even pay for Netflix, Amazon Prime and play golf most months.

[Cooterpoot]

These are my thoughts also. Very well said. I can give to some stupid teenager who will buy some iPods and a PlayStation with the money. Or I can help someone beat cancer, beat drug addiction, buy clothes after their house burned, or escape a domestic violence situation. Easy decision really.

Typical bullshit from our fans. We must have the poorest of the damn poor in this base. Can't afford $20 a month or even $10 a month.

[Bert Stare]

Typical bullshit from our fans. We must have the poorest of the damn poor in this base. Can't afford $20 a month or even $10 a month.

It's not that we can't afford it, it's the principle of making the fans pay for it in the first place. Some of us can smell a scam a mile away. You don't even know how the money is spent. This is even less transparent than giving to a political campaign. I would send Jimmy effing Swaggart $20 before I sent it to some teenage athlete to use on GTA 6 or weed.

We're not poor, but also definitely not naive.

[SilentSteel16]

Typical bullshit from our fans. We must have the poorest of the damn poor in this base. Can't afford $20 a month or even $10 a month.

My guy you are so off base it is hilarious. I have plenty of extra cash I can throw to NIL. I just choose not to let a bunch of 18 year old kids wreck my weekend if we lose. I start putting money directly in their pocket then I stand that to change. I love when we win, but I don’t go in some deep dark hole when we lose. The federal government also thinks we should keep pouring money into a hole and it will fix it.

College football or athletics doesn’t mean that much to me as it clearly does to some of you. It is your money do with it what you will, but saying we are poor because we CHOOSE not to give to these kids is downright inflammatory and hopefully not a true thought in your head. Because your perception of reality is obviously off

[SilentSteel16]

If we go 3-9 or 10-2 it will not affect my bottom line dollar unless they make season tickets go up ….. harsh reality to where most people not from Louisiana stand with the current state of college athletics.

[gtowndawg]

If we go 3-9 or 10-2 it will not affect my bottom line dollar unless they make season tickets go up ….. harsh reality to where most people not from Louisiana stand with the current state of college athletics.

I can understand some apathy, being a Miss. State fan is not for the weak, we all know that. But you imply most fans are no longer interested (expect LSU fans). But ticket sales for most everyone (except us) are up. Many SEC schools, including Ole Miss, sold out out of their season tickets. According to Forbes there's been a sharp INCREASE in college football ticket sales going into 2024. Link to that here (https://www.forbes.com/sites/kristidosh/2024/08/13/college-football-ticket-sales-see-steep-increase-for-2024-on-stubhub/). So my contention, as stated in my original post, it does seem to be a Miss. State issue compared to our SEC brethren.

[StarkVegasSteve]

I can understand some apathy, being a Miss. State fan is not for the weak, we all know that. But you imply most fans are no longer interested (expect LSU fans). But ticket sales for most everyone (except us) are up. Many SEC schools, including Ole Miss, sold out out of their season tickets. According to Forbes there's been a sharp INCREASE in college football ticket sales going into 2024. Link to that here (https://www.forbes.com/sites/kristidosh/2024/08/13/college-football-ticket-sales-see-steep-increase-for-2024-on-stubhub/). So my contention, as stated in my original post, it does seem to be a Miss. State issue compared to our SEC brethren.

It's apathy. Our fans have always been show us success and then we'll show up except for a couple of years in the Mullen era. It's also that our fans are probably more blue collar than the avg fan base. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but it generally means they are going to pay cash for almost everything, they are tighter with their money, and they may not have the amt of disposable income as others would have. We also have a large number of in state fans and not many out of state fans. This is another place that hurts us. Out of state fans are generally ones that will donate to this type of stuff because they are not buying season tickets to every sport or travelling to Starkville every weekend. The out of state people are also usually more white collar. They want their teams to succeed so they can go into the office on Monday and brag to that Longhorn or that Volunteer or that a Gator that we got them this year. AKA: They are more willing to give so they can stick their chest out and they are also not being bled dry 19 different directions with going to Starkville every weekend.

[StateDawg44]

I can understand some apathy, being a Miss. State fan is not for the weak, we all know that. But you imply most fans are no longer interested (expect LSU fans). But ticket sales for most everyone (except us) are up. Many SEC schools, including Ole Miss, sold out out of their season tickets. According to Forbes there's been a sharp INCREASE in college football ticket sales going into 2024. Link to that here (https://www.forbes.com/sites/kristidosh/2024/08/13/college-football-ticket-sales-see-steep-increase-for-2024-on-stubhub/). So my contention, as stated in my original post, it does seem to be a Miss. State issue compared to our SEC brethren.

Because we've sucked the past few years compared to the success of other teams around us. Primarily due to coaching and evaluations.

Win and I would expect donations to go up. NIL isn't really an investment but you don't typically see investors throwing money at a stagnant sinking ship.

I'm perfectly fine if pnssyfart doesn't approve of my fandom. Bert and several others are spot on. Even if we are winning I still have many other things that come before being held hostage by some random kid like my own child or someone else who may be in need.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Because we've sucked the past few years compared to the success of other teams around us. Primarily due to coaching and evaluations.

Win and I would expect donations to go up. NIL isn't really an investment but you don't typically see investors throwing money at a stagnant sinking ship.

I'm perfectly fine if pnssyfart doesn't approve of my fandom. Bert and several others are spot on. Even if we are winning I still have many other things that come before being held hostage by some random kid like my own child or someone else who may be in need.

And that is why we will struggle in the new era. Our fans don't want to pay. Which is completely fine, no one should tell you how to spend your money, but that is the reason we will have trouble succeeding in the new era. Because something as little as $10/month is too far a bridge to travel over for a bunch of people. And I'm not singling out any specific person that has posted they are against it. Because there are thousands in our fan base that share that sentiment. Again, everyone has the right to spend their money in the way they see fit. But when we get beat 38-17 or 45-21 and you are complaining that we lost, you already know the answer.

[StateDawg44]

And that is why we will struggle in the new era. Our fans don't want to pay. Which is completely fine, no one should tell you how to spend your money, but that is the reason we will have trouble succeeding in the new era. Because something as little as $10/month is too far a bridge to travel over for a bunch of people. And I'm not singling out any specific person that has posted they are against it. Because there are thousands in our fan base that share that sentiment. Again, everyone has the right to spend their money in the way they see fit. But when we get beat 38-17 or 45-21 and you are complaining that we lost, you already know the answer.


I'd much rather save my $120 a year for something meaningful than throw it out the window.

The thought of having to pay to earn the right to complain lol. I understand you aren't pointing a finger or singling anyone out. But, complaining about other people complaining and adding a qualifier that may or may not make that acceptable is laughable.

ETA: I work in Chattanooga and have about 30-40 co-workers and most everyone loves their football teams. We have UT, UGA, Bammers, and I'm the lone MSU alum. Not one single co-worker here donates to their teams collective. All agree it would be a waste of their money and never plan to donate and hate the direction the sport is going. Even with the success of some of their programs. It's not totally unique to MSU fans.

[HancockCountyDog]

I think we have the right HC. We only won 5 in Dan?s first year, but we could see the improvement. If the same thing happens here, I think most of us will be happy. We just need to get the base to contribute. How do we do that? Do we host something? The question is how to organize it for the masses/bring awareness.

I really hate this comparison that our fans always use. People don't go back and look what Croom left Mullen with the greatest recruiting class in our history.

Look at the names:

Johnthan Banks
Josh Boyd
Bumphis
Flectcher freaking Cox
Cam Lawrence
Pernell McPhee
LaDarius Perkins
Deontae Skinner
Darius Slay
Chris White
Nickoe Whitley

Are you freaking kidding me. Plus the following players on the roster - Jamar Chaney, Kyle Love, Derek Sherrod, Quenton Saulsberry, and Anthony Dixon.

Compare that to what Lebby walked into, plus the recruiting class that he was able to salvage. Please stop saying stuff like "Mullen was able to win 5 games in 2009", of course he could - he had multiple pro bowlers on his team. He had a first round pick at LT and one of the best RB's we have had in the last 20 years. If he had gone with Relf from the beginning, he would have won 7-8 games.

[HancockCountyDog]

We just had a couple HCs who destroyed our recruiting and left nothing here. They've been building their program and winning games. You won't suddenly catch up. You can't spend that much or get that kind of talent at one time.

I'm with you, i just think it is hard to tell people you have a big NIL budget and tell people to keep giving more - and then we win 3-4 games.

[StarkVegasSteve]

I'd much rather save my $120 a year for something meaningful than throw it out the window.

The thought of having to pay to earn the right to complain lol. I understand you aren't pointing a finger or singling anyone out. But, complaining about other people complaining and adding a qualifier that may or may not make that acceptable is laughable.

Not saying that you have to pay to earn the right to complain. I lost that fight about two years ago. All I am saying is when you complain, you know the answer 9/10 times.

And I will add this, paying players has always happened. We have done it 100s of times in the past. Jackie was the one that originally got us organized and showed us the way. The difference is now that each and every fan has the opportunity to contribute instead of the top 50 donors.

[StarkVegasSteve]

I'm with you, i just think it is hard to tell people you have a big NIL budget and tell people to keep giving more - and then we win 3-4 games.

And there's something to be said with that when the only quantifiable ROI is wins. The problem becomes what if one of those big boosters we have giving us a ton of NIL funds stops giving one year? Then that big NIL budget is down a mil or so. We need to be able to replace those funds. We can't continue to count on the Richard Adkerson's of the world or the Billy Howard's of the world, or the Richard Rula's of the world to always just fund everything.

[SilentSteel16]

Then get back to States roots. Don’t go for the flashy recruits. Get the ones that hate the guts of the guy lined up across from them. Snot nosed horse collar wearing LBs and DBs not afraid of getting burned but lay the wood on WRs. You could make a contending team with just in state guys that are down in the dirt players. Not the one looking for his next paydays. Believe it or not, those players still exist today.

That is MSU football, get those players and I guarantee you will see more contributions. The guys like Jarrian Jones and the like have sucked the life out of the program. Coaching has not helped either and no matter how much you give, coaching is the answer. FWIW, I do believe Lebby is on the right track just needs to get back to the roots of recruiting. Kids that are overlooked by bigger programs and want to rub that programs nose in it. Hail State.

[SilentSteel16]

If you feel the urge to give them by all means do that. The rest of us contribute in other ways. I guarantee you I have brought more consistent revenue stream to Starkville than any 1 player minus Dak or Simmons.

My seats alone have made 4 other families become season ticket holders. So I will contribute financially a little bit differently than some of you and that is A OK. Hail State

[StarkVegasSteve]

Then get back to States roots. Don’t go for the flashy recruits. Get the ones that hate the guts of the guy lined up across from them. Snot nosed horse collar wearing LBs and DBs not afraid of getting burned but lay the wood on WRs. You could make a contending team with just in state guys that are down in the dirt players. Not the one looking for his next paydays. Believe it or not, those players still exist today.

That is MSU football, get those players and I guarantee you will see more contributions. The guys like Jarrian Jones and the like have sucked the life out of the program. Coaching has not helped either and no matter how much you give, coaching is the answer. FWIW, I do believe Lebby is on the right track just needs to get back to the roots of recruiting. Kids that are overlooked by bigger programs and want to rub that programs nose in it. Hail State.

Defensively maybe you are right. But I mean, Jeff was a flashy recruit and he hated the guy across from him. Wore a horse collar too. Chris was a flashy recruit, he turned out pretty good. Fred Smoot personified the person you say don't recruit....HE WAS A DAWG

Offensively however, you have to sell the flash and recruit it. Kevin Coleman was a flashy recruit, Mario Craver was a flashy recruit. Going back a bit but Chad Bumphis was a flashy recruit and he was pretty damn good too.


The point I am trying to make is that our roots are not what you think they are. Our roots were built on solid evaluating of talent. If a flashy recruit can play, then you do what it takes to get them (Caleb Cunningham). We did sign some underrecruited guys, but it's because we evaluated them and knew what they could bring to the system we were running.

[SilentSteel16]

Fred Smoot is exactly the guy we need to recruit. He was a JUCO guy who just wanted to get on the field and show how good he was. Jones and Simmons are outliers that for perfectly for what we used to be known for. Now what is our defense known for? I guarantee if you put 12 guys that are hard nosed out there and want to prove something you will get better results than 12 guys that are workout combine guys.

[StarkVegasSteve]

If you feel the urge to give them by all means do that. The rest of us contribute in other ways. I guarantee you I have brought more consistent revenue stream to Starkville than any 1 player minus Dak or Simmons.

My seats alone have made 4 other families become season ticket holders. So I will contribute financially a little bit differently than some of you and that is A OK. Hail State

And hey, maybe that's your way. You brought 4 other families in and maybe they donate to NIL. Or maybe they brought someone in who donates. Would we like everyone donating? Absolutely. But I appreciate your candor and you not just settling for I'm a fan and that's enough. You support in other ways and bring others in to the fanbase.

[SilentSteel16]

Spot on, and good day to you. I am holed up at the house with Covid so this has been my entertainment for the past day or so. Have a great one and HAIL STATE

[StarkVegasSteve]

Fred Smoot is exactly the guy we need to recruit. He was a JUCO guy who just wanted to get on the field and show how good he was. Jones and Simmons are outliers that for perfectly for what we used to be known for. Now what is our defense known for? I guarantee if you put 12 guys that are hard nosed out there and want to prove something you will get better results than 12 guys that are workout combine guys.

That's the problem. We tried to live off that DLU moniker too long and stopped going after top tier D line recruits. We had a hell of a pipeline of HIGHLY RECRUITED guys for a while. Cox, Jones, Simmons, Sweat, and even though we haven't seen it yet, Trevion Williams. Those guys were supplemented by the Braxton Hoyett's, the Gerri Green's, the Corey Thomas', and the Kyle Love's. Another problem is that we did not exactly have the best recruiters. Leach openly loathed recruiting outside of one position and Arnett did not know how to open the doors to the facility without Brad Peterson helping him. Joe was a great recruiter but terrible coach. Mullen was really the last good one and people hated how he recruited.

[Rawdawg]

Aside from NIL, one thing we need more than anything is stability. We can not keep changing coaches and administrators. The reason schools like Iowa or UK football are relevant is because of consistency and stability. Poke fun at how their programs are ran, that?s irrelevant. They stayed the course and it has paid off a d when they do both move on from their current coaches the programs themselves are set up for sustainability.

[Lord McBuckethead]

If you have Nick Saban, the coach matters. If you don?t you better have money and lots of it.

[somebodyshotmypaw]

Typical bullshit from our fans. We must have the poorest of the damn poor in this base. Can't afford $20 a month or even $10 a month.

Since this was directed at me, I can afford the $20 per month. I choose to spend it elsewhere. I'm currently paying full tuition, room, and food for a friend of my daughter who is attending MSU. Her dad is worthless, and her mom died last year. I told her I would send her to college so she wouldn't have student loans. MSU gets that money from me. So I'm paying for my kid to attend MSU, as well as someone else's kid. I also told her that her end of the deal was to stay out of trouble. Bookie Watson got an NIL deal, then got his dumbass arrested. Flame away if you want to.

[DEDawg]

I really hate this comparison that our fans always use. People don't go back and look what Croom left Mullen with the greatest recruiting class in our history.

Look at the names:

Johnthan Banks
Josh Boyd
Bumphis
Flectcher freaking Cox
Cam Lawrence
Pernell McPhee
LaDarius Perkins
Deontae Skinner
Darius Slay
Chris White
Nickoe Whitley

Are you freaking kidding me. Plus the following players on the roster - Jamar Chaney, Kyle Love, Derek Sherrod, Quenton Saulsberry, and Anthony Dixon.

Compare that to what Lebby walked into, plus the recruiting class that he was able to salvage. Please stop saying stuff like "Mullen was able to win 5 games in 2009", of course he could - he had multiple pro bowlers on his team. He had a first round pick at LT and one of the best RB's we have had in the last 20 years. If he had gone with Relf from the beginning, he would have won 7-8 games.

This is a WILD list and such a good point to make. 1 NFL HoF, another borderline HoF, a 2nd round draft pick, a bunch of NFL UDFAs, and some absolute DAWGS. What a class

[StarkVegasSteve]

This is a WILD list and such a good point to make. 1 NFL HoF, another borderline HoF, a 2nd round draft pick, a bunch of NFL UDFAs, and some absolute DAWGS. What a class

I will go to my grave saying that 08 class of HS talent was the most Mississippi has ever had top to bottom. Cox, Russell, Bumphis, Garrett, David Conner, Lawrence, Boyd, Patterson, Rod Woodson, Thames, Kendrick Hardy, and Clayton Moore were the Dandy Dozen

Heck, 10 of the 12 went P5. Obviously some did not stick but the production we got out of that class is ridiculous. Cox, Russell, Bumphis, Lawrence, and Boyd were all multi year SEC STARTERS.

[R2Dawg]

So coaching matters zero? Your an idiot

Coaching cost us a W Saturday.

Yes if we tackle better that also could have been a W.

No PI and no TO and we could have won.

Coaching matters.

[R2Dawg]

And that is why we will struggle in the new era. Our fans don't want to pay. Which is completely fine, no one should tell you how to spend your money, but that is the reason we will have trouble succeeding in the new era. Because something as little as $10/month is too far a bridge to travel over for a bunch of people. And I'm not singling out any specific person that has posted they are against it. Because there are thousands in our fan base that share that sentiment. Again, everyone has the right to spend their money in the way they see fit. But when we get beat 38-17 or 45-21 and you are complaining that we lost, you already know the answer.

Nah, State fans are smart. They want a return for their money, not just throw away hard earned money to win 5 games. Auburn fans are asking for a refund right now after Saturday loss. Welcome to give me the money - NIL era. Have fun yall.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Coaching cost us a W Saturday.

Yes if we tackle better that also could have been a W.

No PI and no TO and we could have won.

Coaching matters.

Correct. The game Saturday was not lost because of athletes or NIL. We will lose games due to that this year, but this was not one of them. We were more talented than them. We lost this game because we refused to make the QB beat us. The second we went to 7-8 man boxes their offense struggled. If we had started stacking the box, we could've stacked 3 and outs and our offense would've had a chance to get in a flow.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Nah, State fans are smart. They want a return for their money, not just throw away hard earned money to win 5 games. Auburn fans are asking for a refund right now after Saturday loss. Welcome to give me the money - NIL era. Have fun yall.

So you want to win first and then buy in, but if you don't get players then you don't win.......

[R2Dawg]

So you want to win first and then buy in, but if you don't get players then you don't win.......

Dude I'm a lifelong State alumni, fan, etc. I'm bought in.

Money ain't our issue. I see it everyday in business world. Money don't fix every problem.

We've had top talent in seasons and still haven't won. We've had low talent (by recruiting rankings) and won. There is plenty of talent to go around these days. It is what you do with the talent you got. We got enough money to get good enough talent to win. OM lost Judkins, didn't kill them did it?

[Goldendawg]

I'm with you, i just think it is hard to tell people you have a big NIL budget and tell people to keep giving more - and then we win 3-4 games.

People expect ROI for their hard earned $ and no info on NIL to the people who do give (I didn't cancel my quarterly donation yesterday as I have cooled off a little,LOL) is an issue to me. I get monthly info on my investments. Is some info from the BI too much to ask? Tough times this year, but winning will solve all problems. Hail State!

[R2Dawg]

Correct. The game Saturday was not lost because of athletes or NIL. We will lose games due to that this year, but this was not one of them. We were more talented than them. We lost this game because we refused to make the QB beat us. The second we went to 7-8 man boxes their offense struggled. If we had started stacking the box, we could've stacked 3 and outs and our offense would've had a chance to get in a flow.

Yep, agree. We have enough talent to be 6-6 this year with just ave coaching.

[Cooterpoot]

Yep, agree. We have enough talent to be 6-6 this year with just ave coaching.

No we don't. That defensive talent is the worst I can remember here and there's no depth either. We had to be perfect and catch some luck to win 6. Now we got to be perfect and get all the luck. Like suck it out of a Leprechauns ass lucky and more perfect than super model poon.

[Goldendawg]

Fred Smoot is exactly the guy we need to recruit. He was a JUCO guy who just wanted to get on the field and show how good he was. Jones and Simmons are outliers that for perfectly for what we used to be known for. Now what is our defense known for? I guarantee if you put 12 guys that are hard nosed out there and want to prove something you will get better results than 12 guys that are workout combine guys.

Time will tell & we had so many gaps to fill quickly last cycle, but the talent level in JC is not what it was years ago. Don't forget the year Jackie signed about 20 and only 2 were starters in year two. With virtually no rules in the Portal/NIL world except $, very few athletes can't qualify and attend 4 to 5 colleges these days. Bet progress toward a degree or getting a degree is a joke to most especially in FB and MBB.

[R2Dawg]

No we don't. That defensive talent is the worst I can remember here and there's no depth either. We had to be perfect and catch some luck to win 6. Now we got to be perfect and get all the luck. Like suck it out of a Leprechauns ass lucky and more perfect than super model poon.

We threw one away Sat so maybe now its 5-7. Last year's team beat a top 15 team AZ. We are better than last year.

[Cooterpoot]

We threw one away Sat so maybe now its 5-7. Last year's team beat a top 15 team AZ. We are better than last year.

I'm not arguing that at all. But this ain't a 6 win team with this defense. And Lebby made mistakes too, but you have to expect it early on. That defensive coaching though, that was next level pathetic!

[StarkVegasSteve]

Dude I'm a lifelong State alumni, fan, etc. I'm bought in.

Money ain't our issue. I see it everyday in business world. Money don't fix every problem.

We've had top talent in seasons and still haven't won. We've had low talent (by recruiting rankings) and won. There is plenty of talent to go around these days. It is what you do with the talent you got. We got enough money to get good enough talent to win. OM lost Judkins, didn't kill them did it?

Not talking about you specifically, but I have heard that exact statement from hundreds of State fans since NIL began. Money may not be our issue now, but what if Richard Adkerson decides to stop giving money? What if the Howard's decide to spread the money around once Mr. Billy passes? These are legitimate questions that need to be asked. Those are 6-7 figure donations that we would no longer be getting.

[Goldendawg]

Correct. The game Saturday was not lost because of athletes or NIL. We will lose games due to that this year, but this was not one of them. We were more talented than them. We lost this game because we refused to make the QB beat us. The second we went to 7-8 man boxes their offense struggled. If we had started stacking the box, we could've stacked 3 and outs and our offense would've had a chance to get in a flow.

Second year in a row with a rookie HC and a never had this position, on the job training DC. Not impressed at all after the 3-3-5, no adjustment against the run for about 3 quarters Saturday night. To add, whoever is "teaching" form tacking and wrapping up on contact needs to be demoted asap.

[HancockCountyDog]

We threw one away Sat so maybe now its 5-7. Last year's team beat a top 15 team AZ. We are better than last year.

We aren't on defense. That isn't debatable. We had multiple players on NFL rosters in the preseason off last year's team. This is a silly statement, to be honest.

Offensively, maybe we are better personnel wise, but its close. Defensively, it is not close and any fair analysis of the team would show that.

[Brobi-wan]

No we don't. That defensive talent is the worst I can remember here and there's no depth either. We had to be perfect and catch some luck to win 6. Now we got to be perfect and get all the luck. Like suck it out of a Leprechauns ass lucky and more perfect than super model poon.

Lmao. But yeah, you’re right. We’re going to have to steal one now like a 2020 protestor. Maybe we can swing a win against Mizz, but it will be tough sledding.

[parabrave]

One thing about what I don't get about our NIL is why I don't see any of our players doing commercials for any of the banks or any other corporations? Thats where these kids can make some real cash and it would be a advertising expense for the corp/business.

[Homedawg]

One thing about what I don't get about our NIL is why I don't see any of our players doing commercials for any of the banks or any other corporations? Thats where these kids can make some real cash and it would be a advertising expense for the corp/business.

Who do we have that would add any value to the business???? Nobody. That's why

[DEDawg]

Dude I'm a lifelong State alumni, fan, etc. I'm bought in.

Money ain't our issue. I see it everyday in business world. Money don't fix every problem.

We've had top talent in seasons and still haven't won. We've had low talent (by recruiting rankings) and won. There is plenty of talent to go around these days. It is what you do with the talent you got. We got enough money to get good enough talent to win. OM lost Judkins, didn't kill them did it?

Man you do not want to use OM to attempt to make your point. You would be doing the complete opposite

[DEDawg]

Yep, agree. We have enough talent to be 6-6 this year with just ave coaching.

Wait what? Did you watch Saturday? We are trotting average G5 level players on defense this year. If we go 6-6 it?s because we have well well above average coaching

[somebodyshotmypaw]

Dude I'm a lifelong State alumni, fan, etc. I'm bought in.

Money ain't our issue. I see it everyday in business world. Money don't fix every problem.

We've had top talent in seasons and still haven't won. We've had low talent (by recruiting rankings) and won. There is plenty of talent to go around these days. It is what you do with the talent you got. We got enough money to get good enough talent to win. OM lost Judkins, didn't kill them did it?

Absolutely correct. Everybody screams that they need more money. Often they just need to fix inefficiencies, trim the fat, and be better. People ask me every day how I provide a better product and better service for far cheaper than the competitor. The answer is that the competitors run like a government with bloated staff, too much waste, etc. Money is rarely the problem. In college athletics, there are inefficiencies everywhere.