3 major sports, GOAT.......

[shoeless joe]

His career BA and hr totals are amazing, especially considering the lost time. Only, once since then has there been a really legit chance for someone to hit 400 and that was Brett in 80.

I still remember someone doing an interview with bonds at an all star game...Seattle maybe. They asked him who was a better hitter between himself and Williamss, bonds had recently eclipsed ted’s 521 career mark, bonds response, “I’ve hit more homers so I’d say I’m better”.

Williams was cheated of stats due to his actual combat service...bonds cheated the game. He was a HOF before cheating but that comment itself shows what he was about.

[shoeless joe]

Here’s what I think about the bonds/Ruth debate...

Babe hit 60 when nobody else was hitting 20. Bonds hit 70+ when everybody else was hitting 40-50.

One thing bonds did do was capitalize on pitches to hit. But as an all around player he was NOT as good as mantle, Mays, and Aaron. And prolly not as good as Clemente, Robinson, DiMaggio. But he could get one pitch and hit it a long way...of course one thing roids do is help hit it a long way.

[dawgday166]

THis entire thread and not a single mention of Ted Willaims? Maybe the greatest hitter ever??

There was a brief mention of him and replied he could be in the argument maybe too.

[dawgday166]

Like Raffy?

Raffy used them. Are you saying Chipper did too? Cause I ain't aware of that one.

[Commercecomet24]

Here’s what I think about the bonds/Ruth debate...

Babe hit 60 when nobody else was hitting 20. Bonds hit 70+ when everybody else was hitting 40-50.

One thing bonds did do was capitalize on pitches to hit. But as an all around player he was NOT as good as mantle, Mays, and Aaron. And prolly not as good as Clemente, Robinson, DiMaggio. But he could get one pitch and hit it a long way...of course one thing roids do is help hit it a long way.

Babe also hit more home runs in a season than any other TEAM..twice! He changed the game, Bonds didn't.

[dawgday166]

His career BA and hr totals are amazing, especially considering the lost time. Only, once since then has there been a really legit chance for someone to hit 400 and that was Brett in 80.

Gwynn (94 & 97) and Carew (77).

[dawgday166]

Here’s what I think about the bonds/Ruth debate...

Babe hit 60 when nobody else was hitting 20. Bonds hit 70+ when everybody else was hitting 40-50.

One thing bonds did do was capitalize on pitches to hit. But as an all around player he was NOT as good as mantle, Mays, and Aaron. And prolly not as good as Clemente, Robinson, DiMaggio. But he could get one pitch and hit it a long way...of course one thing roids do is help hit it a long way.

Wouldn't argue with any of this here.

Roids will help increase bat speed.

[Commercecomet24]

Gwynn (94 & 97) and Carew (77).

I loved watching Rod Carew hit, dude was a maestro with a bat. He didn't have much pop but he could smoke ropes all over the park and was maybe the best bunter of all time. He could put so much backspin on a bunt, 3B or 1B would almost run into the catcher trying to chase em down.Stole home 17 times in his career, 7 times in one season.

[dawgday166]

I loved watching Rod Carew hit, dude was a maestro with a bat. He didn't have much pop but he could smoke ropes all over the park and was maybe the best bunter of all time. He could put so much backspin on a bunt, 3B or 1B would almost run into the catcher trying to chase em down.Stole home 17 times in his career, 7 times in one season.

Yea he was. Gwynn & Carew better, more consistent hitters than Brett.

[Matt3467]

If we're talking HR hitters and ignoring those that cheated then you have to have McGwire in the discussion. McGwire average more homeruns per at-bat than any other player in history.

Bonds was a great player before the roids. He hit for average and would hit 30-40 homeruns a year. Steroids don't give you talent but they do amplify it and Bonds is a cheater that I don't believe deserves to be in the HOF and above those like Babe, Mays, Aaron, etc on the Home Run list. I'm not saying he wasn't good. He was great and on his way to being a surefire HOF player before the roids.

Some of my favorite players are roid users like Sosa, McGwire, Canseco, Bonds, Clemens, Boone, Gonzalez, Bagwell, Rodriguez (Alex and Ivan), but I would also say those players earned themselves an asterisk next to their stats forever.

I read something about Babes career a while back and something that others haven't mentioned here is that the baseballs were made different back then. I'd have to look it up to get specifics but prior to 1920 the balls were much harder to be hit for homeruns and after the 1920 change to baseballs a significant jump to homeruns occurred. By 1925 the homerun rate for the league doubled!

My vote for all time great is Ruth. Along with his stats his Legend is almost mythical in baseball.

My personal favorite player of all time would be Andres Galarraga. One of the most underrated players ever in my opinion. Great bat and glove. His numbers would've been plenty better had he not had to battle cancer in his prime.

Edit: Meant to add that Babe also averaged more homeruns per at-bat than Bonds.

[Commercecomet24]

If we're talking HR hitters and ignoring those that cheated then you have to have McGwire in the discussion. McGwire average more homeruns per at-bat than any other player in history.

Bonds was a great player before the roids. He hit for average and would hit 30-40 homeruns a year. Steroids don't give you talent but they do amplify it and Bonds is a cheater that I don't believe deserves to be in the HOF and above those like Babe, Mays, Aaron, etc on the Home Run list. I'm not saying he wasn't good. He was great and on his way to being a surefire HOF player before the roids.

Some of my favorite players are roid users like Sosa, McGwire, Canseco, Bonds, Clemens, Boone, Gonzalez, Bagwell, Rodriguez (Alex and Ivan), but I would also say those players earned themselves an asterisk next to their stats forever.

I read something about Babes career a while back and something that others haven't mentioned here is that the baseballs were made different back then. I'd have to look it up to get specifics but prior to 1920 the balls were much harder to be hit for homeruns and after the 1920 change to baseballs a significant jump to homeruns occurred. By 1925 the homerun rate for the league doubled!

My vote for all time great is Ruth. Along with his stats his Legend is almost mythical in baseball.

My personal favorite player of all time would be Andres Galarraga. One of the most underrated players ever in my opinion. Great bat and glove. His numbers would've been plenty better had he not had to battle cancer in his prime.

Edit: Meant to add that Babe also averaged more homeruns per at-bat than Bonds.

Yeah in the early days of baseball they were basically using a "rag ball". That's why pitchers back then could pitch in so many games cause they threw very few pitches cause just about everything was an out lol. Dead Ball Era, babe changed that thought and the HR become in vogue. Chicks even dug the long ball back then!

[Commercecomet24]

Yeah in the early days of baseball they were basically using a "rag ball". That's why pitchers back then could pitch in so many games cause they threw very few pitches cause just about everything was an out lol. Dead Ball Era, babe changed that thought and the HR become in vogue. Chicks even dug the long ball back then!

ETA that's also what made Babes HR even more epic he was hitting a dead ball for parts of his career.

[Johnson85]

How do you know? Did you see Ruth play?

If not, then you?re just going off what someone told you rather than your own opinion

Ruth was the best of his era but it takes about 5 seconds of comparing the two on YouTube videos to realize that Barry was way way way more talented.

Production was basically a wash

Hard to adjust for the fact that Bonds got to put a big ass pad on his arm and take a way a good chunk of the plate without consequences. Some of the other greats would have gotten a ball or two in their ear hole if they tried to pull shit like that.

[ShotgunDawg]

Raffy used them. Are you saying Chipper did too? Cause I ain't aware of that one.

I'm saying we don't know who all used them but many many did in that era

[ShotgunDawg]

Hard to adjust for the fact that Bonds got to put a big ass pad on his arm and take a way a good chunk of the plate without consequences. Some of the other greats would have gotten a ball or two in their ear hole if they tried to pull shit like that.

Well, many players do these days and none of them are Bonds

[Todd4State]

My GOATs are:

Ruth for baseball. The man changed the game. He showed people that chicks dug the longball. When you outhomer entire teams- that would be like someone hitting 100 home runs today. The rules were different too- a ball hitting a foul pole was a foul ball then. Also the parks were bigger. Ruth was also an elite pitcher too.

Jerry Rice for football. The man annihilated receiving records and I think those 49ers teams really changed the way football was and is played forever. And he played when it was a less pass happy league.

Michael Jordan for basketball. Again he changed the way the game is played forever and I think he started making basketball into a game more about individuals for better or worse.

[Todd4State]

I'm saying we don't know who all used them but many many did in that era

The thing about steroids is just because you take them it doesn't turn you into a 60 home run guy overnight. If the media had ever actually played sports even at the rec level before they would understand that. Heck if you told me to take a shot and it would turn me into Babe Ruth skill wise everyone that dreams of playing baseball would do it. And as far as cheating a lot of people forget it wasn't illegal in baseball in the 90's.

[Todd4State]

I loved watching Rod Carew hit, dude was a maestro with a bat. He didn't have much pop but he could smoke ropes all over the park and was maybe the best bunter of all time. He could put so much backspin on a bunt, 3B or 1B would almost run into the catcher trying to chase em down.Stole home 17 times in his career, 7 times in one season.

Carew allegedly could bunt a ball and have it land onto a handkerchief on the infield wherever the coaches put it. That's remarkable. Ichiro in his prime was really good too.

[shoeless joe]

The thing about steroids is just because you take them it doesn't turn you into a 60 home run guy overnight. If the media had ever actually played sports even at the rec level before they would understand that. Heck if you told me to take a shot and it would turn me into Babe Ruth skill wise everyone that dreams of playing baseball would do it. And as far as cheating a lot of people forget it wasn't illegal in baseball in the 90's.

It doesn’t improve hand/eye but definitely increases power production. It also allows for quicker recovery time and prevents missing time due to nagging injuries. For pitchers it made short rest less of a deal. Ask the Braves if Clemens being able to throw 5 shutout innings in game 4 of the LDS on 1 day rest if roids made a difference.

[Commercecomet24]

It doesn’t improve hand/eye but definitely increases power production. It also allows for quicker recovery time and prevents missing time due to nagging injuries. For pitchers it made short rest less of a deal. Ask the Braves if Clemens being able to throw 5 shutout innings in game 4 of the LDS on 1 day rest if roids made a difference.

I believe the faster recovery time steroids allowed made more of a difference than anything in baseball because the season is a huge grind and allowing players to avoid those nagging little things.