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Originally Posted by
dawgday166
I don't dislike Bonds so much but his late career explosion isn't authentic. And all folks do is look at HRs and walks.
That's fine, but my issue is that you don't see to believe others did the exact same thing. The entire league was doing it.
CAN'T PUT A SADDLE ON A MUSTANG
Quit Your Bi$&$&?!, He's Not Going to Run the Ball More
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Originally Posted by
ShotgunDawg
That's fine, but my issue is that you don't see to believe others did the exact same thing. The entire league was doing it.
And that's what pisses me off. Bonds didn't need to do it but he did and it's tainted his career. The whole era people look at and wonder who did/who didn't. And it wasn't just hitters, pitchers were into as much as anyone.
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Originally Posted by
ShotgunDawg
That's fine, but my issue is that you don't see to believe others did the exact same thing. The entire league was doing it.
A) I don't believe entire league was doing it. There was a percentage tho and I wouldn't guess it to be higher than 20%. Probably not more than 10%.
B) Pretty sure the Babe didn't do roids. Beer & Women were his drugs.
C) You're vaulting Barry up there but "wanting" to believe the whole league was doing roids cause ... you just want it to be so. Barry probably would of had a late career of nagging injuries from '99 on and faded away if he hadn't roided up.
Last edited by dawgday166; 05-05-2020 at 11:20 AM.
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Originally Posted by
dawgday166
A) I don't believe entire league was doing it. There was a percentage tho and I wouldn't guess it to be higher than 20%.
Well.... you're wrong. I know that to be a fact.
CAN'T PUT A SADDLE ON A MUSTANG
Quit Your Bi$&$&?!, He's Not Going to Run the Ball More
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Originally Posted by
Commercecomet24
And that's what pisses me off. Bonds didn't need to do it but he did and it's tainted his career. The whole era people look at and wonder who did/who didn't. And it wasn't just hitters, pitchers were into as much as anyone.
The facts that Jeff Bagwell is in the HOF & Bonds & Clemens aren't is an absolutely travesty & laughable
CAN'T PUT A SADDLE ON A MUSTANG
Quit Your Bi$&$&?!, He's Not Going to Run the Ball More
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Originally Posted by
ShotgunDawg
The facts that Jeff Bagwell is in the HOF & Bonds & Clemens aren't is an absolutely travesty & laughable
I will agree with you on that. Caminiti and Bagwell were big abusers. Cost Caminiti his life.
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Originally Posted by
ShotgunDawg
The facts that Jeff Bagwell is in the HOF & Bonds & Clemens aren't is an absolutely travesty & laughable
I agree.
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Originally Posted by
ShotgunDawg
Well.... you're wrong. I know that to be a fact.
So how do you "know" this?
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Originally Posted by
Commercecomet24
I will agree with you on that. Caminiti and Bagwell were big abusers. Cost Caminiti his life.
Caminiti is who I was trying to think of and his explosive years. Really?? That's how much roids can help performance.
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Originally Posted by
dawgday166
So how do you "know" this?
Because I know people that would know
CAN'T PUT A SADDLE ON A MUSTANG
Quit Your Bi$&$&?!, He's Not Going to Run the Ball More
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Originally Posted by
ShotgunDawg
Because I know people that would know
ok ... but they don't know everyone in the league and besides that ... perceptions aren't always reality.
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Junior Member
NBA: Probably MJ. LeBron is a lot closer than most old timers want to admit, and most of the arguments given to MJ are flawed in one way or another, but I?ll still give him the benefit of the doubt.
NFL: Hard to really answer because of the nature of football and how different each position is. Probably gotta be a QB though, so I?ll go with Brady
MLB: Might take some heat for this, but I think it?s Mike Trout. Players are so much better today than they used to be. Pitchers routinely throwing 95+, which was unheard of not eve twenty years ago. Trout?s numbers are insane, and while it would be justified to say he hasn?t played long enough, if he stays healthy he will go down as the GOAT. Heck he could retire right now and make the Hall of Fame that?s how good he?s been
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Originally Posted by
dawgday166
Caminiti is who I was trying to think of and his explosive years. Really?? That's how much roids can help performance.
Yeah read his story. It was a sad end to the mans life, tragic. I have deep sympathy for people with addictive personality, it's a horrible disease that affects so many.
Caminiti went from average to MVP almost overnight.
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Originally Posted by
JPdog
NBA: Probably MJ. LeBron is a lot closer than most old timers want to admit, and most of the arguments given to MJ are flawed in one way or another, but I?ll still give him the benefit of the doubt.
NFL: Hard to really answer because of the nature of football and how different each position is. Probably gotta be a QB though, so I?ll go with Brady
MLB: Might take some heat for this, but I think it?s Mike Trout. Players are so much better today than they used to be. Pitchers routinely throwing 95+, which was unheard of not eve twenty years ago. Trout?s numbers are insane, and while it would be justified to say he hasn?t played long enough, if he stays healthy he will go down as the GOAT. Heck he could retire right now and make the Hall of Fame that?s how good he?s been
Yeah I think Trout has serious potential to threaten that GOAT award. Love watching him play.
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Originally Posted by
JPdog
NBA: Probably MJ. LeBron is a lot closer than most old timers want to admit, and most of the arguments given to MJ are flawed in one way or another, but I?ll still give him the benefit of the doubt.
NFL: Hard to really answer because of the nature of football and how different each position is. Probably gotta be a QB though, so I?ll go with Brady
MLB: Might take some heat for this, but I think it?s Mike Trout. Players are so much better today than they used to be. Pitchers routinely throwing 95+, which was unheard of not eve twenty years ago. Trout?s numbers are insane, and while it would be justified to say he hasn?t played long enough, if he stays healthy he will go down as the GOAT. Heck he could retire right now and make the Hall of Fame that?s how good he?s been
Not sure how Trout's numbers are "off the chart". His best year in SLG and OPS isn't as good as Babe's lifetime. And while there probably weren't as many 95+ pitchers back then, there were a lot more balls doctored. Relievers also weren't used back than like they are now.
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Just from players that I have watched on TV.
Basketball : MJ - LeBron is great but MJ was also consistently one of the best defensive players in the league.
Football: I don't like Brady but the guy has the rings. His seasons in Tampa are going to define his legacy. Does he need Bill's coaching and team building to win?
Baseball: Bonds on roids is about as dominant a hitter that you will find but I give Trout the overall nod. Pitchers are better now along with his base stealing and defense is better than roided up Bonds.
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Originally Posted by
ShotgunDawg
This is a ridiculous comment. Secondly, how do you know Chipper didn?t Roids up?
You don?t think Ruth used amphetamines and went to the furthest extent to take advantage of legal rules during his day?
How do you know he just chased women and drank beer?
How do you know he didn?t throw 85 mph on the mound? Could Bonds have pitched in Ruth?s era?
Who is the best baseball player your EYES have ever seen?
I have read about Ruth and his life story. He was a big drinker and chased women a whole lot. He was a very interesting character and was a dominant pitcher in his early days. Btw, I'd put Lou Gehrig ahead of Bonds, to me and what I read about him he was close to Ruth in being the GOAT. Just saying
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Originally Posted by
ShotgunDawg
But how do you know Chipper didn?t use Roids?
If he did,he sucked at it.
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Originally Posted by
basedog
I have read about Ruth and his life story. He was a big drinker and chased women a whole lot. He was a very interesting character and was a dominant pitcher in his early days. Btw, I'd put Lou Gehrig ahead of Bonds, to me and what I read about him he was close to Ruth in being the GOAT. Just saying
Bonds was the absolute best hitter this world has ever seen for like 3 consecutive seasons. He did it against far superior pitchers than anything the Babe ever batted against. I am not saying he is the best ever player to play the game, but it is not out of the realm of possibility that he could be better than Ruth. Ruth literally played for two of the best franchises in the history of sports, Boston and NYY.
If I had to call a single player as the best ever to suit up, I say Mickey Mantle in his prime prior to injuries. I never saw him play, but the dude from all indication was the real deal in every aspect. Imagine if the dude had physically prepared for baseball along with not doing crazy shit between games and the off season.
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Also I would like to add, Babe's approach to the game changed baseball forever. No one consistently went for the long ball. He was like Wilt Chamberlain in how wilt changed the game of basketball forever.
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