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01-13-2023, 01:22 AM
#141
Originally Posted by
Really Clark?
I just think the assumption that our players are too deficient mentally and / or physically to run this offense is a big stretch.
I had no problem with Kittley but he wasn't coming and never was. Bringing him up doesn't do anything for your argument. He is a non-entity in our OC search once he let us know he wasn't interested.
So the question is where do you go from there? You gauge the interest of who fits what you want and you can legitimately hire. When you strip away the ones who are not interested you get the best guy you can. Air Raid is irrelevant at that point. And honestly the candidates left who would consider being OC for us and run Air Raid, were not available. Hatcher wasn't coming, we didn't contact him and he didn't contact us because he is not giving up running a program. Harrell was already under contract elsewhere. Arbuckle, you cannot consider him at this point. He was an assistant in HS just 2 years ago, a quality analysis in 2021 and 1 year as OC following Kittley and with Helton making sure of the game plan. Way too risky. He may be great but you cannot take that risk. So who?
Honestly I would have gone Arbuckle. No it's not without risk but I believe if a guy is talented his age doesn't matter. Gus Mahlzahn was hired by Arkansas as OC straight out of high school. Wazzu certainly isn't worried about his age. I value scheme fit and coaching talent over experience. I just think Arbuckle is a very talented coach.
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01-13-2023, 05:50 AM
#142
Senior Member
Originally Posted by
Big4Dawg
Here?s his numbers the last two years.
App St 2022
Passing offense #48
Passing efficiency #19
Rushing offense #21
Yards per completion #24
Total offense #26
Scoring offense #23
43% pass vs 57% run
CMU 2021
Passing offense #29
Rushing offense #51
Total offense #24
Scoring offense #35
46% pass vs 54% run
Looks like we're back to running the ball. OL....get ready to learn smashmouth blocking again!
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01-13-2023, 06:16 AM
#143
Originally Posted by
Todd4State
Honestly I would have gone Arbuckle. No it's not without risk but I believe if a guy is talented his age doesn't matter. Gus Mahlzahn was hired by Arkansas as OC straight out of high school. Wazzu certainly isn't worried about his age. I value scheme fit and coaching talent over experience. I just think Arbuckle is a very talented coach.
Well it's debatable if he was available and may have signed a MOU with Wazzou prior, so that might have been problematic or a complete stopper anyway. But let's say he was, I agree age doesn't have to matter. But there's no way hiring a guy who has 1 year of on the field experience to come into a league where the vast majority of the best defensive minds in football line across the field nearly every Sat makes sense. Wazzou plays in a conference that's hasn't played for a title in over a decade, we play in a division with 3 different winners in 12 years. It's such different leagues that 1 year experience spells disaster and you want to pair a first time head coach with someone with virtually no college coaching experience, that's just a bad hire and decision. You are doing this to stay married to a scheme, that really seems foolish. I hope he does well and will probably put up good numbers in the PAC-12, I think it's a noticeable gap between experience and coaching ability of him and Kittley at WKU, that Kittley is another level ahead of him.
Malzhan did. I'll give you that but he had been running his own programs for 8 years in HS, recruiting to it at Shiloh, and invented an offensive philosophy while in HS that was really unique and groundbreaking. He had even written a book on it a few years before ARK and a whole coaching video series. That's a huge difference where he was vs Arbuckle. Worlds apart between those two. Not to mention Ark wanted his players, especially Mustain and Williams and hired Gus to get them. Frank Broyles wanted his innovation and insisted Nutt hire him. Then ran him off after a year or he tan himself off, depends on who you ask.
Last edited by Really Clark?; 01-13-2023 at 07:12 AM.
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01-13-2023, 07:49 AM
#144
Originally Posted by
Coach34
Which was a top 10 offense in school history
This may be true. But Holloway up the middle, only to get blown up, was pretty atrocious. ?Holloway up the middle? wouldn?t be a thing if wasn?t atrocious. I?m sure Dan didn?t want to be predictable, but it was done waaay too much.
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01-13-2023, 08:26 AM
#145
Originally Posted by
BlackSailsDawg
And you think this guy isn't a lesser? Your own words say it. *(yet short)*
Yes. He did let the staff go. It's why they took new positions.
Per App St. This was a fast hire that cost MSU $900K. A total of 18 hours went into an interview and hire at a price tag of $900K
He's more proven than any air raid guy left that we could've pulled.
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01-13-2023, 08:30 AM
#146
Hopefully everyone here is smart enough to understand that the offense in year 1 will look much different than the offense will in year 2 . Unless something dramatic happens between now and say fall practice
I don’t care who we hired as OC , this statement would have been true for them as well
So saying that , from what I have been told and yeah I have contacts this was a good hire. He was in the top 3 choices for the OC opening at South Carolina
We could have done much much worse
Last edited by Ari Gold; 01-13-2023 at 08:36 AM.
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01-13-2023, 09:09 AM
#147
Originally Posted by
confucius say
If we are bringing in a scheme where our success is predicated on having OL better than the SEC DL we will face then we are screwed.
You mean the OL that was in the top 3rd of the SEC in every OL metric? The same OL that returns all but 1 guy?
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01-13-2023, 09:13 AM
#148
Originally Posted by
Spiderman
He better, but actions speak. He has always seemed to be in the same personal groupings
No he doesn't, he was more 11 or 12 personnel at App State. At CMU, he was that, plus a mix of 10 personnel.
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01-13-2023, 09:27 AM
#149
Originally Posted by
BlackSailsDawg
The more and more comes out, the more it looks like you are right.
Please list the modern AR candidates that had more than 2 years of top scoring 35 offenses that we should have offered and could've gotten?
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01-13-2023, 09:52 AM
#150
Found this interesting tidbit last night. Maybe our fourth-down tries this year were just a taste of things to come:
Our go rate this year was 29%.
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01-13-2023, 10:09 AM
#151
Originally Posted by
Prediction? Pain.
Found this interesting tidbit last night. Maybe our fourth-down tries this year were just a taste of things to come:
Our go rate this year was 29%.
I'm guessing Arnett being a defensive guy would be more conservative if anything. But who knows.......
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01-13-2023, 10:11 AM
#152
Originally Posted by
Coach34
Translated:
Arnett has been interviewing people and nobody really impressed him. Barbay interviewed and Arnett knew he had found his guy.
That a way to tote that company water.
"The QB and the receiver weren't on the same page there, but hey its only week eleven". (Jack Cristil)
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01-13-2023, 10:33 AM
#153
Some of y'all are losing your minds over the OC hire. And it's obvious y'all would have acted like this regardless of who we hired. That offense we watched the past few years is gone. It was gone the minute Coach Mike Leach passed away. We would not have been able to hire anyone and make them run that offense. Thank God CZA wanted to tweak it or move away from it and run something modern like Tennessee and schools like that run. Y'all have cried enough. Man up and accept that we have changed and let's see what happens.
Leach was going to win 7 or 8 at the most next year. We can still do that but it's gonna take a lot of hard work.
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01-13-2023, 10:38 AM
#154
Originally Posted by
Big4Dawg
Fire Barbay!!!!
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01-13-2023, 10:43 AM
#155
Most people thought Briles was a great option, and Barbary runs a fairly similar offense. He's going to use multiple personnel types. What he did at App St was due to the players he had. Same at his previous stop. Will be same here. He's flexible. And that's something we haven't been since Mullen was here.
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01-13-2023, 11:01 AM
#156
Originally Posted by
Cooterpoot
Most people thought Briles was a great option, and Barbary runs a fairly similar offense. He's going to use multiple personnel types. What he did at App St was due to the players he had. Same at his previous stop. Will be same here. He's flexible. And that's something we haven't been since Mullen was here.
I'm all in for being flexible, no reason why we can't adjust.
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01-13-2023, 11:10 AM
#157
I think some people became air raid fans more than they were MSU fans. They liked the status that came from being an "air raid" offense like it somehow made us good. Truthfully, we were pretty mediocre. CML is a legend and his legacy will live forever, but his offense here got romanticized into something it's not. I believe that's why some people are losing their shit over this hire.
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01-13-2023, 11:13 AM
#158
Originally Posted by
KOdawg1
I think some people became air raid fans more than they were MSU fans. They liked the status that came from being an "air raid" offense like it somehow made us good. Truthfully, we were pretty mediocre. CML is a legend and his legacy will live forever, but his offense here got romanticized into something it's not. I believe that's why some people are losing their shit over this hire.
You nailed it. This is an extremely accurate post.
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01-13-2023, 11:36 AM
#159
Originally Posted by
KOdawg1
I think some people became air raid fans more than they were MSU fans. They liked the status that came from being an "air raid" offense like it somehow made us good. Truthfully, we were pretty mediocre. CML is a legend and his legacy will live forever, but his offense here got romanticized into something it's not. I believe that's why some people are losing their shit over this hire.
Yep/
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01-13-2023, 12:23 PM
#160
Member
App. State has finished the last 3 seasons in the top 30 in total offense. Nothing new for them. Their program has been built on toughness and high character. He benefited from this.
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