Been thinking about this Leach situation today...

[TrapGame]

This isn't about how likely any scenario is, it is what happens in that scenario. Are you too scared to admit that there is a scenario in which Leach could lose the Egg Bowl in 2023 and be retained in 2024 even in your eyes?

Shit, if he loses the Egg this year he might not be retained. That is a very real possibility and not hypothetical at all.

And let me say again. WE AIN'T WINNING TEN GAMES NEXT SEASON. We do not have the players, especially QB, or coach to pull off ten wins. We just don't.

[dawgday166]

As an AD or University President or whatever, you don't hire a football coach, especially one with Leach's track record, and start telling him how to coach or what assistants he needs to add or subtract. You don't tell him who to play or not play. All of that remains to sole responsibility of message board posters who are all experts and brilliant football analysts/coaches in their own right.. **

As an AD, that job/position is to try to provide the resources and support he needs to be successful. Now if things appear bad, then the guy in the AD position can inquire or make suggestions maybe. And the AD certainly can set timetables for righting the ship, if it seems to be floundering. And if I'm AD, I'm certainly conveying to Leach the pressure coming from The President, Big Boosters, etc. ... but most importantly the pressure coming from the big dog message board posters **

I can just see someone going to Saban and telling him how to run his program. They might make suggestions, but Saban will make the decisions. Kirby will too. And so will Leach. Honestly, any coach worth his salt will. They're gonna sink or swim with their own decisions. Doesn't mean conversations around how to get things on track won't happen, but someone like Leach ain't gonna change too much about how he manages and/or organizes all of his personnel ... coaches, players, or whatnot. He will change things only if he thinks ideas or suggestions are better options and worth trying, regardless of where the ideas come from.

Conversations like this are pretty much pointless IMO. If I hire a very successful person in any field, I'm gonna give them the autonomy to do it their way. That's why I hired them to begin with. My job is to help them with what they need to do the job the way they would like to do it. Which is a conversation that should've occurred during the hiring process.

[Quaoarsking]

No one is saying we are going 10-2 next year. I'm just trying to get you to commit either way, yes or no, whether IF we did go 10-2 with one of the 2 losses being Ole Miss, would you still want to fire Leach?

[TrapGame]

As an AD or University President or whatever, you don't hire a football coach, especially one with Leach's track record, and start telling him how to coach or what assistants he needs to add or subtract. You don't tell him who to play or not play. All of that remains to sole responsibility of message board posters who are all experts and brilliant football analysts/coaches in their own right.. **

As an AD, that job/position is to try to provide the resources and support he needs to be successful. Now if things appear bad, then the guy in the AD position can inquire or make suggestions maybe. And the AD certainly can set timetables for righting the ship, if it seems to be floundering. And if I'm AD, I'm certainly conveying to Leach the pressure coming from The President, Big Boosters, etc. ... but most importantly the pressure coming from the big dog message board posters **

I can just see someone going to Saban and telling him how to run his program. They might make suggestions, but Saban will make the decisions. Kirby will too. And so will Leach. Honestly, any coach worth his salt will. They're gonna sink or swim with their own decisions. Doesn't mean conversations around how to get things on track won't happen, but someone like Leach ain't gonna change too much about how he manages and/or organizes all of his personnel ... coaches, players, or whatnot. He will change things only if he thinks ideas or suggestions are better options and worth trying, regardless of where the ideas come from.

Conversations like this are pretty much pointless IMO. If I hire a very successful person in any field, I'm gonna give them the autonomy to do it their way. That's why I hired them to begin with. My job is to help them with what they need to do the job the way they would like to do it. Which is a conversation that should've occurred during the hiring process.

LOL!!!!

Why do you think Mullen couldn't wait to get the **** outta Starkville in '17?

Because Cohen told him to break up the Country Club, recruit better and stop pimping yourself out every November. He told Dan if he's looking around in November, we will too.

[TrapGame]

No one is saying we are going 10-2 next year. I'm just trying to get you to commit either way, yes or no, whether IF we did go 10-2 with one of the 2 losses being Ole Miss, would you still want to fire Leach?

Okay, NO.

How's that?

But if we go 10-2 I'll buy you a steak dinner at Kesler Prime.

[dawgday166]

LOL!!!!

Why do you think Mullen couldn't wait to get the **** outta Starkville in '17?

Because Cohen told him to break up the Country Club, recruit better and stop pimping yourself out every November. He told Dan if he's looking around in November, we will too.

Ok ... and how long before that happened? And are you sure he told him to "break up the country club"? We had just gone 8-4 (which would've been 9-3 if Fitz' ankle don't get broke). And a coach pimping himself out is not on same level as telling him how to run his program IMO.

What I'm really saying is yea, Big Booster and AD might tell a coach how to do things or else, but if that coach has a proven track record, he most likely won't be around long and will do what Mullen did.

ETA: I also think I remember that Mullen had been wanting bigger $$ than we were willing to pay too.

[TrapGame]

Ok ... and how long before that happened? And are you sure he told him to "break up the country club"? We had just gone 8-4 (which would've been 9-3 if Fitz' ankle don't get broke). And pimping yourself out as a coach is not on same level as telling you how to run your program IMO.

What I'm really saying is yea, Big Booster and AD might tell a coach how to do things or else, but if that coach has a proven track record, he most likely won't be around long and will do what Mullen did.

ETA: I also think I remember that Mullen had been wanting bigger $$ than we were willing to pay too.

This was before the '17 Egg. Mullen was looking at the start of the season. That's why he jumped on Tennessee. Mullen was told at the beginning of the season. He told Cohen a few weeks later to go ahead and start looking b/c he wasn't staying.

In Cohen's favor he wasn't Strick. He wasn't going to let Mullen walk all over him.

[Leeshouldveflanked]

Every year he is here Leach top end is 7-5 or 8-4 and floor will be 4-8 depending on strength of schedule. He hasnt won the game he wasnt supposed to win this year. Hopefully that game is Ole Miss. But to be honest, the only way that happens is if Auburn hires Kiffin the week before the game.

[yjnkdawg]

You don't tell CML to get an OC or a new QB. . You tell him what your expectations and goals are for our football program are and if it is a must for him to beat OM to remain as HC you tell him that. It is then up to CML to determine what additions, changes, etc. are needed to meet these expectations and goals. If he doesn't do what is needed to meet these then it's on him and you do what you need to do. You don't micro manage a HC by telling him who to play, to hire, etc.

[was21]

Leach ain't going to do what Mullen did because Leach won't be in demand like Mullen was.

[yjnkdawg]

If all you did was look at stats then Rogers seems like a great QB which is why all we hear from announcers and talking heads is how accurate and great at decision making Rogers is. They apparently don't want game film. To touch on what Tater mentioned earlier it is something to note that watching Costello and Rogers is like watching two different offenses (lets ignore the fact that Costello was awful too for a second). Costello made you think we were always a threat anywhere on the field while watching Will we already know nine times out of ten where the ball is going to go. I'd like to see another QB be given the reins before I close the book on Leach.

Btw here's something that gave me a chuckle while looking up Will's draft stock:

Per https://www.nfldraftbuzz.com/Player/...ssissippiState "Athletic quarterback who is a threat to leave the pocket and gain positive yardage at any time. Possesses very good vision balance, elusiveness and deceptive speed and power as a runner."

Thedraftnetwork.com praises Rogers ability to extend plays with his legs.

si.com gives him a 2nd round grade and says, "He can scramble for yards if the play breaks down,"

I must have been watching the wrong games and quarterback. I sure haven't seen this scrambling for yards, threat leaving the pocket to gain yards, extending plays with his legs. etc.

[dawgday166]

This was before the '17 Egg. Mullen was looking at the start of the season. That's why he jumped on Tennessee. Mullen was told at the beginning of the season. He told Cohen a few weeks later to go ahead and start looking b/c he wasn't staying.

In Cohen's favor he wasn't Strick. He wasn't going to let Mullen walk all over him.

I remember now that it was start of season. We had also just come off of the 2016 season that looked a lot like this one to some extent.

[DownwardDawg]

Joe Morehead averaged 400.2 yards in 2019 (got fired) - Leach is averaging 396.4 in his 3rd year with the most returning players in the SEC. No matter what, that's an eye opening stat that must be carefully considered if we lose to Ole Miss (again).

Wow!

[DownwardDawg]

I don't think it would even take that much Cadaver. It could be argued that you really don't need changes other than a QB who is given the discretion to run and who has the ability to run, just a little bit. Will doesn't have that and never will. Get someone who can and this offense looks much different.

Agree. QB that can run decently and throw down the field and we instantly look better on offense. I wish that was Will because I admire that young man. I want him to succeed.

[DownwardDawg]

As an AD or University President or whatever, you don't hire a football coach, especially one with Leach's track record, and start telling him how to coach or what assistants he needs to add or subtract. You don't tell him who to play or not play. All of that remains to sole responsibility of message board posters who are all experts and brilliant football analysts/coaches in their own right.. **

As an AD, that job/position is to try to provide the resources and support he needs to be successful. Now if things appear bad, then the guy in the AD position can inquire or make suggestions maybe. And the AD certainly can set timetables for righting the ship, if it seems to be floundering. And if I'm AD, I'm certainly conveying to Leach the pressure coming from The President, Big Boosters, etc. ... but most importantly the pressure coming from the big dog message board posters **

I can just see someone going to Saban and telling him how to run his program. They might make suggestions, but Saban will make the decisions. Kirby will too. And so will Leach. Honestly, any coach worth his salt will. They're gonna sink or swim with their own decisions. Doesn't mean conversations around how to get things on track won't happen, but someone like Leach ain't gonna change too much about how he manages and/or organizes all of his personnel ... coaches, players, or whatnot. He will change things only if he thinks ideas or suggestions are better options and worth trying, regardless of where the ideas come from.

Conversations like this are pretty much pointless IMO. If I hire a very successful person in any field, I'm gonna give them the autonomy to do it their way. That's why I hired them to begin with. My job is to help them with what they need to do the job the way they would like to do it. Which is a conversation that should've occurred during the hiring process.

Greg Byrne told Croom to hire a new OC and change his offense.
It happens every season somewhere.

[NCDawg]

As for Spurrier Jr., unless Leach is holding him back, our WR room leaves a lot to be desired and Leach does not seem happy with it at all. JMO.

I agree. When we had Polk, Rogers had a reliable W/R he could go to. With the current bunch, they seem to disappear from game to game. If nobody can get open or separation, there isn't much will can do.

[yjnkdawg]

Joe Morehead averaged 400.2 yards in 2019 (got fired) - Leach is averaging 396.4 in his 3rd year with the most returning players in the SEC. No matter what, that's an eye opening stat that must be carefully considered if we lose to Ole Miss (again).

Total yards don't mean crap, or passing records or whatever, it's wins and losses that matter. Any coach will tell you that. See Kiffin's press conference after the Bama loss. JoMo was terminated due to discipline and culture issues.

[dawgday166]

Greg Byrne told Croom to hire a new OC and change his offense.
It happens every season somewhere.

Not saying it doesn't happen. Just saying that an established HC probably ain't gonna let it happen. They'll get another job (i.e. Mullen) or maybe retire, as Leach might do. Croom was in year 4 and had never been an established HC. And he lost 45-0 (or something like that to OM). If we lose like that or anywhere close to it, I'm ready to move on too. Right now ... I can probably go either way. I'm growing pretty weary of the apathy I sense from our offensive personnel and their lack of toughness. Ultimately, that's on Leach. And this is what pissed me off so bad about JoMo too.

Bammer Nation raising hell about O'Brien and Golding now too. Saban won't let no one tell him how to run his program tho. And they better provide $$ to buy his players for him too.

[yjnkdawg]

I agree. When we had Polk, Rogers had a reliable W/R he could go to. With the current bunch, they seem to disappear from game to game. If nobody can get open or separation, there isn't much will can do.

These good SEC defenses play tight coverage and real physical defense which includes some holding, and pushing off but as long as they don't get flagged for it they will continue to do it. Our receivers haven't adjusted to it for some reason, and aren't playing physical enough like it's my ball only and you ain't getting it. CML has been upset about it too.

[Quaoarsking]

Okay, NO.

How's that?

But if we go 10-2 I'll buy you a steak dinner at Kesler Prime.

It's excellent. You and I actually agree that Egg Bowls are more important than the average game but still not the sole arbiter of whether a coach keeps his job