Bulldogs were is our humanity. First time in my lifetime I am

[StateDawg44]

I literally quoted exactly what you said. I didn't twist anything. Literally no vaccine in the world is "totally effective". You're framing everything via strawman...

Aight, I hear you. I'm not asking for 100% effectiveness. Obviously that's impossible. But it's too early to declare this vaccine champion simply based off the fact that it was created so quickly. I just can't get past what the long term effects might be or that the rush and stress put on them getting it out as quickly as possible may have some short sightedness to it. That is not crazy or unheard of. I can fully admit I very well could be wrong just like so many that have been quoted by people like you who have turned out to be wrong. And I certainly don't expect anyone to change their stance because of my opinions or anyone else on this message boards opinions on this matter. I won't die on my hill because I am not seeking yours or anyone else's stamp of approval on anything.

The vast majority of people that are in hospitals, that are on ventilators, and that are dying are indeed the unvaccinated. Just because you are unvaccinated doesn't guarantee 100% that these things WILL happen to you (where exactly did I say that in my previous post?), but you ARE more likely compared with the vaccinated.

Again, the overwhelmingly vast majority that contract it will never even step foot in hospital. They will go home from a clinic with no real treatment because no one knows how to actually treat it. I don't blame anyone for that. Any doctor claiming otherwise gets shut down and labeled as crazy or stupid or threatened to have their license revoked. So all we are left with is the vaccine being sold as the end all be all at every facet of our lives now. EVERYTHING about this is still new. EVERYTHING. Even a 1.5 years in it's still too soon to say the vaccine or any other treatment is the best route to take. Saying otherwise is fooling yourself and others. Scientists yeah. Me and you, Nah. Get over yourself if you think you understand how any of this is actually working. Even if you are a doc.

And who else will they transmit it to in the meantime? Maybe they're fine, but their diabetes stricken obese mother-in-law with 2 stints in her heart already, might not be. Yes, vaccinated people can still spread COVID, albeit it is extremely rare. The only reason some do is because Delta is extremely more contagious than the previous version, and extremely more dangerous to if you're unvaccinated.

Is an asymptomatic vaccinated carrier more dangerous than an asymptomatic unvaccinated carrier? They could both spread it to her just as easily as the other one right? Are there statistics on the number of asymptomatic vaccinated carriers out there unknowingly doing damage? What about asymptomatic unvaccinated carriers?

And again, when did I say that if you're unvaccinated you WILL end up in the ICU? You're using phrases like "vast majority", so I assume you have at least some grasp on basic statistics, no?

I was emphasizing the point that I could've used a better choice of words instead of accidentally implying that I need 100% prevention to accept things are working swimmingly. My bad. Don't get caught up on that or the point I was making.

In many cases is is actually recorded. Not only that, but it has been made abundantly clear that those with poor health, debilitating factors, ect. are the most vulnerable literally from the get-go. All the more reason to get the vaccine.

I must miss that column in all the stats they are selectively provide to the public. I would never expect that to be reported by the media if it was available. And for all I know is it would be illegal to do that based off patient rights. But that could be an important number to know in all of this. No?

You really think the vaccine is only to "help with symptoms"? And again, I see you're using the circular strawman of "vaccinated spread it too, so what's the point"...see above.

No. Not what's the point for everyone. Some definitely need it. But not even 90% actually need it and would be fine. Probably much less. No I can't prove that just like you can't prove otherwise either.

It's really simple. If you get vaccinated, not only do you SIGNIFICANTLY decrease the chance that you will have debilitating symptoms, end up in a hospital, in an ICU, on a ventilator, or dead...you will also SIGNIFICANTLY decrease the chance you'll spread it to someone who either isn't vaccinated or is but is so poor in health, it can still do damage.

It's simple if you are looking at only tomorrow. There are also things to consider as possibilities on the flip side of that coin too. It's also very, VERY likely (waayyyyy more) you may just quarantine at home and go on a couple of short walks around your neighborhood and just remotely work from home while resting with a tough cough and some fatigue. 10-14 days later if you're responsible and your back at work and safe and sound. Now you can go visit your sick MIL and feel fine being there.

If you're young and healthy you may not want to risk some of the possible but somewhat unlikely (so far, 6 months in) side effects from a rushed vaccine and new booster. But there is risk. Just like with taking the vaccine. Some of the neurological side effects and seizures directly related to getting the vaccine are way scarier to see IMO than possibly having a tough cough I will probably ride out at home. Blood clots are already scary enough. No need to explain that. There are plenty of other side effects too. Most every vaccine has them. I realize this isn't unique. In 3-5 years it may be some miracle drug for all I know.