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Originally Posted by
msstate7
And you vice versa.
Back then probably so. My issues with Mullen were he never blamed the offense ever while throwing DCs under the bus. Mullen rarely if ever blamed himself (Leach will do that and did in Monday's presser to some extent). Also, Mullen liked to relax on his laurels when he had accomplished a little something (that bit him at FL). And he ALWAYS lost to OM when a big favorite with 8 wins or more under his belt. When he wants to coach he can coach but he can also be pretty lazy at times. Looking back now tho ... I'd probably be more patient now since I fully realize just how much we are primarily a 4 year development cycle type of team to possibly produce a 10 win season. And that is with coaching continuity.
I've actually learned and evaluated my past maybe too quick to judge judgements. Have you? FWIW during the 2nd half of game ... I was pissed as hell at Leach and wanted to fire him myself. But before I posted that I backed up and calmed down a little about it. I realized I should've known Death Valley and our fans' high evaluation of us and low evaluation of LSU were a trap.
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Originally Posted by
WhiskeyPirate
4-4 seems to be Dans high water mark in the sec and Leach has already done that in really his first full season, I’m not sure where these expectations are coming from honestly.
Leach has close to as many "memorable" wins as well. LSU 2020, Texas A&M, Auburn, Kentucky, and someone pointed out to me today that NC State went 9-3.
It is a bit confusing to me that Dan seemed to get almost a complete pass throughout most of his tenure. Especially when he went job hunting and cost us Egg Bowls doing so. I seriously would have told him to take the Maryland job in 2015 because he obviously wants to leave MSU and can't focus on our team.
Dan made a living beating who he should beat vs Leach who may lose to Memphis but then he'll turn around and beat a couple of really good SEC teams. Leach gives us lower lows but also much higher highs.
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Let’s compare apples to apples
Dans first five years in the sec : 3-5, 4-4, 2-6,4-4, 3-5
I think Leach is doing just as well, probably better given Dan went 33-39 in the sec, even with Dak. 4-4 was his high water mark without Dak. leach has already done that.
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Originally Posted by
msstate7
Funny how this lsu was really bad last week, and now you guys have them on par with their great teams
Actually, if you look back at my posts I said that I would never predict a win at LSU. And didn't. Guess I'm pretty smart huh? I learned my lesson in 1998. Probably should have learned it in 1994. Those were far worse LSU teams than this one. And they were definitely worse than MSU those years.
I'm actually talking about the 2018 Georgia team that lost to a good 10-3 LSU team. However, that was a Georgia team that went on to play in the Sugar Bowl and won the SEC East. The score was 36-16. Ironically enough.
And no- I'm not saying we're going to win 10 games.
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Originally Posted by
WhiskeyPirate
Let’s compare apples to apples
Dans first five years in the sec : 3-5, 4-4, 2-6,4-4, 3-5
I think Leach is doing just as well, probably better given Dan went 33-39 in the sec, even with Dak. 4-4 was his high water mark without Dak. leach has already done that.
Little different environment in the sec west back then. LSU and auburn were national contenders, along with bama in Mullen's 1st 3 years. And then you had Petrino at ark.
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Originally Posted by
Todd4State
Leach has close to as many "memorable" wins as well. LSU 2020, Texas A&M, Auburn, Kentucky, and someone pointed out to me today that NC State went 9-3.
It is a bit confusing to me that Dan seemed to get almost a complete pass throughout most of his tenure. Especially when he went job hunting and cost us Egg Bowls doing so. I seriously would have told him to take the Maryland job in 2015 because he obviously wants to leave MSU and can't focus on our team.
Dan made a living beating who he should beat vs Leach who may lose to Memphis but then he'll turn around and beat a couple of really good SEC teams. Leach gives us lower lows but also much higher highs.
I guess somehow running the ball and going 33-39 is some how vastly superior to a spread passing attack.
Conventional rushing offenses are actually more talent on talent and so you have a much lower ceiling at a school like State, especially with NIL factored in. This is why an unconventional attack gives you more bang for your buck.
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Originally Posted by
msstate7
Little different environment in the sec west back then. LSU and auburn were national contenders, along with bama in Mullen's 1st 3 years. And then you had Petrino at ark.
Sounds like you are responding to facts with excuses.
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Originally Posted by
msstate7
Name a few examples
While this is not a lost lead, Bama did enter this game a 24 point favorite:
ALABAMA
Date: November 17, 2007
Opponent: Louisiana-Monroe
Result: 21-14
No. 8 Arkansas Scored 28 unanswered points and had a commanding lead.
Date: September 8, 2012
Opponent: Louisiana-Monroe
Result: 34-31 in OT
#13 AUBURN. Scored 13 points... then Vandy came back and won after being down 13-0
Date: October 4, 2008
Opponent: Vanderbilt
Result: 14-13
FLORIDA.... up 10
Date: November 23, 2013
Opponent: Georgia Southern
Result: 26-20
#16 GEORGIA up 10-0
Date: October 14, 2006
Opponent: Vanderbilt
Result: 24-22
OLE MISS was up 31-10.. JSU scored 21 in the 4th to win.
Date: September 4, 2010
Opponent: Jacksonville State University
Result: 49-48
SOUTH CAROLINA... started out 14-0
Date: October 4, 2014
Opponent: Kentucky
Result: 45-38
Need more?
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Originally Posted by
dawgday166
Back then probably so. My issues with Mullen were he never blamed the offense ever while throwing DCs under the bus. Mullen rarely if ever blamed himself (Leach will do that and did in Monday's presser to some extent). Also, Mullen liked to relax on his laurels when he had accomplished a little something (that bit him at FL). And he ALWAYS lost to OM when a big favorite with 8 wins or more under his belt. When he wants to coach he can coach but he can also be pretty lazy at times. Looking back now tho ... I'd probably be more patient now since I fully realize just how much we are primarily a 4 year development cycle type of team to possibly produce a 10 win season. And that is with coaching continuity.
I've actually learned and evaluated my past maybe too quick to judge judgements. Have you? FWIW during the 2nd half of game ... I was pissed as hell at Leach and wanted to fire him myself. But before I posted that I backed up and calmed down a little about it. I realized I should've known Death Valley and our fans' high evaluation of us and low evaluation of LSU were a trap.
Actually I had a lot of issues with Dan. You mentioned some of them. At the same time- he reached his ceiling here and moved on. Some of our fans need to as well.
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Originally Posted by
Todd4State
I mean the dude thinks that Jimbo Fisher is a good coach.
Pretty funny that Clawson should have been given time but Leach has to win immediately here.
People aren't going to want to hear this- but when you're rebuilding a program five-six years is a reasonable amount of time. That's not to say that we can't win now or shouldn't have played LSU better. What I am saying is there is waaaaayyyy too much knee jerk reaction when it comes to Leach. Every time we lose everyone has to throw in their brilliant idea about how some play or motion would make this offense unstoppable. The reality is for the mobile QB crowd- Leach has that in Robertson. And in time we will have that. And Parson is even more mobile. But Robertson isn't ready yet. Will is the best for now. Even though IMO he needs to be a little more consistent. In time Robertson will be ready. But our fans need to see the big picture here. Which is an impossible ask.
And let me quantify the 5-6 year thing to be perfectly clear- I'm talking a 9-10 win season. Which is in line with Dan when you consider that 2014 happened his sixth season at MSU.
Agreed! It's like there is no logic or reasoning. But when a person proclaims on a message board that he hates Leach and wants him gone, there will be no reasoning. \
But yep, every side of the ball sucked at some point in the game and they all were at horrible times in the game. We melted. Now let them grow and learn from it.
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Originally Posted by
WhiskeyPirate
I guess somehow running the ball and going 33-39 is some how vastly superior to a spread passing attack.
Conventional rushing offenses are actually more talent on talent and so you have a much lower ceiling at a school like State, especially with NIL factored in. This is why an unconventional attack gives you more bang for your buck.
For me it's more than that. Long term- we have to show that we can throw the ball. Football is headed in that direction. Do we have to be able to throw 50 times a game? No. But we do need to be functional when we do it.
MSU's general attitude about what "we can only do on offense" hurts us in recruiting big time. It has been a problem as long as I can remember. Leach is slowly changing that though. We're getting more and more 4 star receivers and QB's than even while maintaining our status quo on defense. And I'm really excited about our young o-line prospects. Hevesy and Dan really hurt the coaches that followed them and we've had to scramble to get JUCO's and transfers to fill in gaps. And that's hard to replenish as long as we neglected it. But that's changing too.
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Originally Posted by
BlackSailsDawg
While this is not a lost lead, Bama did enter this game a 24 point favorite:
ALABAMA
Date: November 17, 2007
Opponent: Louisiana-Monroe
Result: 21-14
No. 8 Arkansas Scored 28 unanswered points and had a commanding lead.
Date: September 8, 2012
Opponent: Louisiana-Monroe
Result: 34-31 in OT
#13 AUBURN. Scored 13 points... then Vandy came back and won after being down 13-0
Date: October 4, 2008
Opponent: Vanderbilt
Result: 14-13
FLORIDA.... up 10
Date: November 23, 2013
Opponent: Georgia Southern
Result: 26-20
#16 GEORGIA up 10-0
Date: October 14, 2006
Opponent: Vanderbilt
Result: 24-22
OLE MISS was up 31-10.. JSU scored 21 in the 4th to win.
Date: September 4, 2010
Opponent: Jacksonville State University
Result: 49-48
SOUTH CAROLINA... started out 14-0
Date: October 4, 2014
Opponent: Kentucky
Result: 45-38
Need more?
2007 bama: saban's worst team
2012 ark: 4-8
2008 auburn: 5-7
2013 Florida: 4-8
2006 Georgia: 8-4 (actually decent)
Tired of looking
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Originally Posted by
Todd4State
Actually I remember Georgia under Smart getting absolutely smoked by LSU in Baton Rouge a few years ago. I think that's happened to everyone except maybe Alabama.
This century Alabama at Tiger Stadium, 7 of the 11 games won... lost 4
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The SOS in those years where Dan went 3-5,4-4,2-6,4-4,3-5 in the SEC corresponded to #12,#16,#28,#43,#20 SOS
So he had a crappy record against a much easier schedule than the #2 SOS we have this year.
A different environment indeed.
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Originally Posted by
msstate7
Funny how this lsu was really bad last week, and now you guys have them on par with their great teams
Nope. I stated clearly (because I can only speak for myself) that our defensive weakness was speed on the edges. I specifically stated that if we did not stay home on the edges with discipline that Daniels will beat us and pointed out his pass completion %. That half ending drive was all Daniels doing exactly that.
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Originally Posted by
Todd4State
Actually I had a lot of issues with Dan. You mentioned some of them. At the same time- he reached his ceiling here and moved on. Some of our fans need to as well.
I hit the highlights LOL. His time management and 2 minute offenses sucked too. At least we got one of those now haha. One score game in last 2 minutes we actually have a chance now.
And I don't want him back cause historically that never works. Although I'm sure 7 can hunt and search for the one time it did work for another program *****
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Originally Posted by
WhiskeyPirate
The SOS in those years where Dan went 3-5,4-4,2-6,4-4,3-5 in the SEC corresponded to #12,#16,#28,#43,#20 SOS
So he had a crappy record against a much easier schedule than the #2 SOS we have this year.
A different environment indeed.
Where are you getting your SOS rankings?
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Originally Posted by
BlackSailsDawg
This century Alabama at Tiger Stadium, 7 of the 11 games won... lost 4
Interesting. I would imagine most of those were pre-Saban.
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Originally Posted by
dawgday166
I hit the highlights LOL. His time management and 2 minute offenses sucked too. At least we got one of those now haha. One score game in last 2 minutes we actually have a chance now.
And I don't want him back cause historically that never works. Although I'm sure 7 can hunt and search for the one time it did work for another program *****
Yes! I remember how helpless I felt when we were playing Alabama and it was fourth down and everyone knew some type of QB run up the middle was coming.
And it didn't work.
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Originally Posted by
msstate7
2007 bama: saban's worst team
2012 ark: 4-8
2008 auburn: 5-7
2013 Florida: 4-8
2006 Georgia: 8-4 (actually decent)
Tired of looking
everything you just stated was an excuse. Yes. Saban's worst team, but still a 24 point favorite and they lost. NUMBER 8 Ark lost and the loss sent them into a tail spin because they could not rebound.
You assertion that nobody has ever lost a lead like that in the SEC was proven false.
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