Jackie Sherrill spoiled us

[TrapGame]

Y'all think he'd still be 2-15 if he were at Florida, UGA, Notre Dame, or Texas?

I don't. It's way too easy to point the finger at Dan and suggest he's the problem. We've got a historically bottom feeder SEC program that's improved tremendously under his leadership. We haven't taken the next step yet, and I get that's frustrating, but we've been fighting an uphill battle against LSU, A&M, Auburn, Ole Miss, Arky, and Bama. What he's done has been accomplished against the toughest division in the history of college football. Given that Ole Miss is about to be Slam hammered, Arky & A&M & LSU are struggling, and Bama and Auburn are the only two division teams who are obviously ahead of us, I'd vote we relax a little and let the man do his job. People who live and die with every win and loss make great fans, but they wouldn't make a great AD.

Excellent post Hack. Let's see what Dan can do with ole miss crippled and LSU down with Cookie Monster for a couple of years. Dan has a chance to lock down in-state recruiting and increase our footprint in Bayou Land.

[Cooterpoot]

1. The SEC has been considerably better the past decade than it was while Sherrill was at State.
2. Mullen is just figuring out some of the recruiting stuff. He's hired people to help out and our next couple of classes are going to be stronger.
3. You're going to see more money going into football now that we've just about gotten all of our other sport facilities upgraded and more competitive.

[Doggie_Style]

I was thinking about the ESPN stat that they keep throwing up about Dan going 2-15 against AP top 25 teams or whatever it is. And I decided to look at some things to try to see what our baseline for beating those teams should be. So, I started when MSU football started to beat such teams with 1991. Jackie won EIGHT games against teams that finished in the AP top 25 in his career at MSU. Even more remarkable he did that in his first 10 years. So he won on average one AP top 25 win four out of every five years.

1992- Florida
1994- Tennessee
1996- Alabama
1997- Auburn
1998- Arkansas
1999- Ole Miss (Pass, pick, and kick and best Egg Bowl ever!)
2000- Florida
2000- Auburn

Croom managed one in 2007 over Auburn.

Dan has two- 2009 against Ole Miss and 2014 against Auburn.

I'm going to guess that Jackie's win total was maybe a little higher than what we should expect- but Dan's is probably a little lower than what we should expect. Realistically we should be expecting somewhere between 2-4 AP top 25 wins every five years. Dan looks like he is going to average one out of every five years at his current rate.

Another interesting thing to note- of the 11 AP top 25 wins we have had since 1991, 9 have come in Starkville.

So you are saying that Dan's performance is Croom-esque.......The thing I always remembered about the Croom years was the feeling that we were not competitive against top teams, same feeling I have today.

[thf24]

So you are saying that Dan's performance is Croom-esque.......The thing I always remembered about the Croom years was the feeling that we were not competitive against top teams, same feeling I have today.

Competitive against top teams? Don't you mean competitive against teams with a pulse? In 8.5 seasons, Mullen has lost to ONE team he absolutely shouldn't have. How many did Croom lose to in five? Mullen has stabilized our program in a way that no one else has been able to in a LONG time, and while he might not be progressing as fast as some of us would like, it was a necessary step if we ever want to achieve higher consistent success. The idea that our program at any point under Mullen has the same feel as Croom, aside from Mullen's low points MAYBE equating to Croom's high points in 2007, is absolutely ridiculous.

[MadDawg]

You're looking at the wrong stat. The stat ESPN is talking about is ranked vs ranked (I think). Using that stat, The Kang was 3-13. So, a little better than Mullen, but not a whole lot.

Thru 2016, under Mullen we are 2-31 against teams that finished the season ranked in the final AP poll.

0-13 against teams that finished in the top 5
0-19 against teams that finished in the top 10
0-23 against teams that finished in the top 15
2-10 against teams that finished 16-25

[LC Dawg]

2-15 when both teams are ranked. Come on we beat 3 top 25 teams in a row in 2014.

Exactly. And I would like to see in how many of those seventeen games we were the lower ranked team. Just for an example if we are ranked 24 and we play #12 we are supposed to lose the game but if we are unranked and we beat #8 we are also supposed to lose that game. However, if we do happen to win the game against #8 it will not help us in this stat that the dickheads at ESPN have been flashing for all to see. I realize that we have to make improvements but stats like these are just used to show Mississippi State in a negative light. The same media people were pumping up Mullen for every coaching job a couple of weeks ago.

[QuadrupleOption]

So you are saying that Dan's performance is Croom-esque.......The thing I always remembered about the Croom years was the feeling that we were not competitive against top teams, same feeling I have today.

Are you saying that Mullen and Croom are equivalent? Because if so that's the stupidest ****ing thing I've read in awhile.

[confucius say]

Thru 2016, under Mullen we are 2-31 against teams that finished the season ranked in the final AP poll.

0-13 against teams that finished in the top 5
0-19 against teams that finished in the top 10
0-23 against teams that finished in the top 15
2-10 against teams that finished 16-25

End of year rankings. Geez. If Aggie and Lsu had beat us in 14 they both end the season ranked as 9 win teams. The reason they weren't ranked is bc we beat them. That's why you can't use end of year rankings.

[MadDawg]

End of year rankings. Geez. If Aggie and Lsu had beat us in 14 they both end the season ranked as 9 win teams. The reason they weren't ranked is bc we beat them. That's why you can't use end of year rankings.

I just put this out there for comparison sake. I will say this though, it's hard to argue we beat the #12 ranked LSU Tigers this year, when they finish the season 4-8.

[confucius say]

So you are saying that Dan's performance is Croom-esque.......The thing I always remembered about the Croom years was the feeling that we were not competitive against top teams, same feeling I have today.

That's the lasting memory you have of the croom years? Really? That we weren't good enough to compete with the best teams in America?

[confucius say]

I just put this out there for comparison sake. I will say this though, it's hard to argue we beat the #12 ranked LSU Tigers this year, when they finish the season 4-8.

No it's not. It's factual.
Now it's hard to argue Lsu is the 12th best team in America, no doubt. But you can't take away wins against a team that was ranked when you beat them bc pollsters had that team over ranked. Way too many variables in play for that.

This whole thread started bc dan is 2-15 when ranked and playing against ranked teams. Can I take away the uga and aub losses since we are not ranked anymore? No.

[msstate7]

No it's not. It's factual.
Now it's hard to argue Lsu is the 12th best team in America, no doubt. But you can't take away wins against a team that was ranked when you beat them bc pollsters had that team over ranked. Way too many variables in play for that.

This whole thread started bc dan is 2-15 when ranked and playing against ranked teams. Can I take away the uga and aub losses since we are not ranked anymore? No.

Great last point...

[msstate7]

That's the lasting memory you have of the croom years? Really? That we weren't good enough to compete with the best teams in America?

To be fair, Maine is a sleeping giant

[Bulldogg31]

The highest ranking for JWS was #8, for three weeks.

[MarketingBully]

Dan basically got a $4.7 million a year salary by winning games he should win and losing games he’s supposed to lose. We over paid him because of Hugh Freeze’s two wins over Alabama. In all honesty, he’s really not a $5 million guy. But in all fairness, neither are a lot of the numbskull coaches that are in this league besides Nick Saban. Nick Saban is worth much more than $10 million a year and he has absolutely devistated this conference.

[Bubb Rubb]

I was thinking about the ESPN stat that they keep throwing up about Dan going 2-15 against AP top 25 teams or whatever it is. And I decided to look at some things to try to see what our baseline for beating those teams should be. So, I started when MSU football started to beat such teams with 1991. Jackie won EIGHT games against teams that finished in the AP top 25 in his career at MSU. Even more remarkable he did that in his first 10 years. So he won on average one AP top 25 win four out of every five years.

1992- Florida
1994- Tennessee
1996- Alabama
1997- Auburn
1998- Arkansas
1999- Ole Miss (Pass, pick, and kick and best Egg Bowl ever!)
2000- Florida
2000- Auburn

Croom managed one in 2007 over Auburn.

Dan has two- 2009 against Ole Miss and 2014 against Auburn.

I'm going to guess that Jackie's win total was maybe a little higher than what we should expect- but Dan's is probably a little lower than what we should expect. Realistically we should be expecting somewhere between 2-4 AP top 25 wins every five years. Dan looks like he is going to average one out of every five years at his current rate.

Another interesting thing to note- of the 11 AP top 25 wins we have had since 1991, 9 have come in Starkville.

Meh, you can't compare eras. The SEC of those days wasn't quite the gauntlet it is today. There was one point in 2013 or 2014, I don't remember which, where all 7 SEC west teams were ranked. It is quite simply the toughest division in college football. I give no credence to a stat that discounts head-to-head ranked opponents. We played three opponents in a row in 2014 who were all top 5 at the time (or close to it) and beat all three. That they slipped at the end of the year is not our problem. We had something to do with it.

Jackie had a tendency to shit the bed in epic fashion at times, losing to La Tech, or tying Arkansas State, or losing to Troy.

We are going to be fine.

[MadDawg]

No it's not. It's factual.
Now it's hard to argue Lsu is the 12th best team in America, no doubt. But you can't take away wins against a team that was ranked when you beat them bc pollsters had that team over ranked. Way too many variables in play for that.

This whole thread started bc dan is 2-15 when ranked and playing against ranked teams. Can I take away the uga and aub losses since we are not ranked anymore? No.

Um, why would you take those games away? They are different stats using different criteria. You can argue which is the better stat all you want. It is what it is.

[MadDawg]

Great last point...

What was the point then?

[Commercecomet24]

Dan is 5-11 against ranked teams since 2014. That 2-15 is when we are ranked.

[bulldawg28]

Y'all think he'd still be 2-15 if he were at Florida, UGA, Notre Dame, or Texas?

I don't. It's way too easy to point the finger at Dan and suggest he's the problem. We've got a historically bottom feeder SEC program that's improved tremendously under his leadership. We haven't taken the next step yet, and I get that's frustrating, but we've been fighting an uphill battle against LSU, A&M, Auburn, Ole Miss, Arky, and Bama. What he's done has been accomplished against the toughest division in the history of college football. Given that Ole Miss is about to be Slam hammered, Arky & A&M & LSU are struggling, and Bama and Auburn are the only two division teams who are obviously ahead of us, I'd vote we relax a little and let the man do his job. People who live and die with every win and loss make great fans, but they wouldn't make a great AD.

Thank you