Phil Steele's offensive rankings brings some sobering info

[HSVDawg]

Well to be fair if you took the rushing element away from Fitz in the QB rating there is no way we would have the #4 QB group.

If you took the rushing element away from Hurts, there is no way he'd be a Top 13 QB. What's the point?

[msbulldog]

You have to go way back to '67, '68 to find Sammy Milner and David Smith receiving and 'All SEC QB' Tommy Pharr. Y'all young'ens have 'no clue' just HOW really bad MSU football was 'before Jackie & Dan. Anyone complaining about ANY winning season needs to go read about the '60's. It's real sobering

To emphasize how bad State, and its offense in particular, was in 1967, in LSU's 55-0 win over State, the Tigers' 55 points in that one game was more than State scored all season, 49.

1968 was a wide open, colorful season. The conference season started with the defending SEC Champion (Tennessee) tying the eventual SEC champion (Georgia) 17-17 on a two point conversion after time had expired, and the conference season ended with the AP first team All-SEC quarterback's team tying the following season's AP first team All-SEC quarterback's team 17-17** . Tommy Pharr of winless Mississippi State was named AP first team All-SEC in 1968. The Bulldogs posted an 0-8-2 mark. The Bullies failed to win a game, yet their quarterback was first team All-SEC. And, deservedly so. Pharr had a tremendous season in '68.


**Archie was a Soph; MSU LOST a home game to LaTech and QB Terry Bradshaw. MSU tied OM 17-17 and students partied like it was a Sugar Bowl win. It WAS that bad.

Lord, I remember Bisquit, I started MSU in 1973. But we still loved them boys.

[Jack Lambert]

What were his predictions for MSU last season?

He just copied and pasted. He's stupid ass hole and it is proven every year. The only thing he ever gets right is Bama and that's not hard to do. Who is the bigger fool, the fool or the person who listens to the fool?

[bluelightstar]

What were his predictions for MSU last season?

Called for us to win 9 -- https://www.philsteele.com/Pdf/2016_...38_Miss_St.pdf

[maroonmania]

If you took the rushing element away from Hurts, there is no way he'd be a Top 13 QB. What's the point?

The post I replied to was making the argument that Fitz should be considered when rating our RB group. My point was that Fitz's running contributions in our offense are already a big part of what gives Fitz the QB rating he was given (same thing with Hurts). Would seem somewhat redundant to also consider him when rating our RB unit even though he in reality is probably our most important runner.

[Coach007]

Is Couch the LB from Auburn, AL????

don't think I know 'em....

Jamal Couch... WR 6'4 228.

[lamont]

Those WR rankings and RB rankings are both comically wrong for different reasons. Steele is a clown. This shit has no bearing on the outlook for the season for anyone who actually pays attention. If our D improves to the "Grantham standard" of minimum Top 40-50 scoring D and overall D, we will win 8 or 9 games. If it doesn't, we will win 6 or 7. Simple as that. Everything else is just background noise.

The offense cost us vs South Alabama and BYU- not the D last season. It also damn near cost us the bowl game. To act like our season depends on defensive improvement is flat out wrong

[HSVDawg]

The offense cost us vs South Alabama and BYU- not the D last season. It also damn near cost us the bowl game. To act like our season depends on defensive improvement is flat out wrong

The games you cherry picked above were early in the year before our OL gelled a little bit and before we inserted Aeris in a permanent role. The defense cost us late in the season against Kentucky, Arkansas, and made games against UMass and Samford much closer than they should have been. The difference you are ignoring is that the offense improved over the course of the season, whereas the defense seemed to get worse. In the 2nd to last game of the regular season, we played an entire 60 minutes of football with the defense not getting themselves off the field a single time. Never forget that. If the offense and defense both pick up from where they left off at the end of last season, the D will have much more improvement to make to get to a respectable level.

[lamont]

The games you cherry picked above were early in the year before our OL gelled a little bit and before we inserted Aeris in a permanent role. The defense cost us late in the season against Kentucky, Arkansas, and made games against UMass and Samford much closer than they should have been. The difference you are ignoring is that the offense improved over the course of the season, whereas the defense seemed to get worse. In the 2nd to last game of the regular season, we played an entire 60 minutes of football with the defense not getting themselves off the field a single time. Never forget that. If the offense and defense both pick up from where they left off at the end of last season, the D will have much more improvement to make to get to a respectable level.

Nobody is saying the D doesnt have to improve. Just dont act like it's our only problem. The offense cost us 2 games last year and damn near a 3rd. We struggled to score in the bowl game against a 6-6 team, and then our QB threw 4 picks in the Spring Game because our WR's cant get separation. We have some offensive problems heading into 2017.

[HSVDawg]

Nobody is saying the D doesnt have to improve. Just dont act like it's our only problem. The offense cost us 2 games last year and damn near a 3rd. We struggled to score in the bowl game against a 6-6 team, and then our QB threw 4 picks in the Spring Game because our WR's cant get separation. We have some offensive problems heading into 2017.

Well of course they both need to improve. But the offense already has improved from the time period you mentioned. The defense hasn't shown anything. Let's also not act like the defense had no role in the bowl game, USA game, or BYU game. It was the D that let Miami Ohio go right down the field on the final drive like we weren't even on the field and thank God their coach decided to play for the FG. We had numerous awful defensive breakdowns against BYU, particularly in OT. We also gave up some big play TD's against South Alabama, and committed an inexcusable offsides to extend their game winning drive for another play when we had them stopped. The D was deplorable pretty much from start to finish last year. The offense gradually got better as the season went along, with some intermediate set backs here and there. I stand by my statement that if we are a Top 50 D in both scoring and overall next season, we will win at least 8. The offense will be adequate.

[Bothrops]

We need a couple of PBS to get a lot of experience this year. The rest need to learn how to PB, so they can play in '19.

WR recruiting will always be an issue, there just aren't too many good ones, and just a handful of great ones available every year. There are athletes galore, and some of them can hack it, but most will not. It's a highly specialized skill position, and I hope we keep that in mind when recruiting.

[HSVDawg]

We need a couple of PBS to get a lot of experience this year. The rest need to learn how to PB, so they can play in '19.

WR recruiting will always be an issue, there just aren't too many good ones, and just a handful of great ones available every year. There are athletes galore, and some of them can hack it, but most will not. It's a highly specialized skill position, and I hope we keep that in mind when recruiting.

You are right about the WR's. One reason why I'm not freaking out about them this upcoming season is that our WR play was complete garbage last season too, yet we found a way to eventually put points on the board once our offense found its identity. We will get guys out there that can block for Fitz and company and Gray will be a deep threat. If Couch or someone else can work the middle of the field for us we will be serviceable. Need those guys to stay healthy though.

[lamont]

You are right about the WR's. One reason why I'm not freaking out about them this upcoming season is that our WR play was complete garbage last season too, yet we found a way to eventually put points on the board once our offense found its identity. We will get guys out there that can block for Fitz and company and Gray will be a deep threat. If Couch or someone else can work the middle of the field for us we will be serviceable. Need those guys to stay healthy though.

Alot of our offensive output was because we played Kentucky, A&M, UPig, and OM- the 9th, 10th, 8th, and 13th ranked defenses in the SEC.

UPig was 75th overall
Kentucky was 85th
A&M was 90th
Mississippi was 111th

That was what helped our offense the most

[HSVDawg]

Alot of our offensive output was because we played Kentucky, A&M, UPig, and OM- the 9th, 10th, 8th, and 13th ranked defenses in the SEC.

UPig was 75th overall
Kentucky was 85th
A&M was 90th
Mississippi was 111th

That was what helped our offense the most

Yeah, and we play all 4 of those teams again in 2017 and they will all likely be bad again on D this season as well. You play an 8 game SEC schedule and you are going to play some good defenses and bad ones. That is part of it. Can't penalize us for doing what we were supposed to do against those teams. We also struggled mightily to get anything going against a crappy South Alabama defense. So, again, we did improve as the season went along. You can't sit here and say those teams you mentioned all had worse defenses than South Alabama.

If you put a Grantham D and not a Sirmon D on the field for us last season, we beat UK and Ark for sure and probably don't choke against USA and BYU either. At minimum, we probably win 3 of those 4 to get to 8 wins last season.

ETA: I stand corrected on BYU's defense. They were pretty decent last year. But I still think a better defensive showing from us would have obviously helped us win that one. They were abysmal offensively and yet we still let them off the hook way too many times.

[lamont]

ETA: I stand corrected on BYU's defense. They were pretty decent last year. But I still think a better defensive showing from us would have obviously helped us win that one. They were abysmal offensively and yet we still let them off the hook way too many times.

We held BYU to 311 total yards and that includes double OT- that loss was in no way on the defense.

[IMissJack]

The offense cost us vs South Alabama and BYU- not the D last season. It also damn near cost us the bowl game. To act like our season depends on defensive improvement is flat out wrong

With a decent kicking game, we still win both of those games, but I get your point.

[Commercecomet24]

Not saying the offense was a world beater early in the season. However we did have a 20-0 lead in second half against South Alabama the defense couldn't hold. We also had the lead in the second half against byu and in OT and we couldn't get a stop, so there's that.

[HSVDawg]

Not saying the offense was a world beater early in the season. However we did have a 20-0 lead in second half against South Alabama the defense couldn't hold. We also had the lead in the second half against byu and in OT and we couldn't get a stop, so there's that.

And the D had USA stopped with a sack on 3rd and goal and had it nullified by a stupid offsides penalty where we were lined up in the neutral zone. On the goal line. With the game on the line in the 4th. We were so, so poorly coached on D last season.

[NCDawg]

Arkansas OL was awful last year, Austin Allen was sacked and ungodly amount. He was sacked 34 times for -256 yds.

He might have been sacked a lot, but he looked like Tom Brady against us.

[lamont]

Not saying the offense was a world beater early in the season. However we did have a 20-0 lead in second half against South Alabama the defense couldn't hold. We also had the lead in the second half against byu and in OT and we couldn't get a stop, so there's that.

We gave up 14 points in regulation to BYU- that's a winning defensive effort
We only scored 20 points vs USA. That's not a winning effort vs a nobody. Neither is 16 points in a bowl game