UMassLowell vs MSU Baseball Game Thread

[dawgday166]

So refresh my memory some here ... been many years since I followed baseball too much. But I thought the box score kept the batting order intact. For instance, Stovall could have played 2nd for say Grindley, but he batted for Collins (which is the 4 hole in the 1st SDSU game).

Is that not the way it works? That's assuming at least a double switch.

In this particular case it looks to me like he subbed at 3rd for Collins and batted for him. He may have been a pinch runner for someone else.

[Really Clark?]

So refresh my memory some here ... been many years since I followed baseball too much. But I thought the box score kept the batting order intact. For instance, Stovall could have played 2nd for say Grindley, but he batted for Collins (which is the 4 hole in the 1st SDSU game).

Is that not the way it works? That's assuming at least a double switch.

In this particular case it looks to me like he subbed at 3rd for Collins and batted for him. He may have been a pinch runner for someone else.

No he pinch ran for Collins in the 4th. When he subbed for him when Collins time in the order came up is when he hits. If Collins was batting 9th he would hit in that spot. His hitting potential is irrelevant. This was a blowout mass sub deal. This is the actual sub for that game for the top of the fifth:

M Smith to cf for Jacob Robson. Jake Mangum to lf. (He also pinch ran in the bottom of the 4th). H Stovall to 3b. (Pinch ran for Collins) Cole Gordon to 1b for N Lowe. Cody Brown to rf for R Humphreys. Ryan Gridley to ss. John Holland to 2b for L Alexander. Elih Marrero to c for J Lovelady.

You are inserted into that persons spot in the line up. But that is completely irrelevant to what type of hitter you are. It's based on position. And in this case it was just a mass sub.

[dawgday166]

I understand. Just was trying to help you understand that subbing is not necessarily an indication of someone's projected role in the line up for the future. In simplest terms Collins was playing 3rd. So you subbed with a 3rd baseman in Stovall. And in those games it was just mass substitutions. It was a coincidence that Stovall should be a good hitter. But he is young still.

And while I am a mix but still believe bunting is not only useful but also an underrated tool to the pure Sabermatrics guys, I didn't like that bunt in that situation and during this time of year especially.

I just reread this and see what you're getting at a little better now ... since it was a blowout. But I guess if I was mass substituting I would probably try to stick someone in the 4 hole that could drive the ball some. Just my thoughts, maybe. It might depend I guess.

[Really Clark?]

I just reread this and see what you're getting at a little better now ... since it was a blowout. But I guess if I was mass substituting I would probably try to stick someone in the 4 hole that could drive the ball some. Just my thoughts, maybe. It might depend I guess.

But during the game you no longer have a 4 hole per say in relation to the score card vs who is actually up in the batting order. You keep thinking in terms of the batting order for the first inning but once the game starts and hopefully you are pounding the ball, by the middle of the game the ACTUAL order coming up for an inning could be any combination. You are going to sub based on defensive positions more so than anything else. If Stovall was light hitting he still slots into Collins spot as a sub in that situation because he plays 3rd.

[dawgday166]

Yea ... the more I think about it the more I recall situations where you might put a real weak hitter in the 4 hole. Certainly late in the game if the 4 hole is down in the order at that time. With the 2 abs/1hit I sorta jumped to the conclusion he was a good hitter. I haven't paid attention to baseball for about 12 or so years now. Watched a little in 2013 and some last year.

I do remember tho, despite my CRS syndrome these days, that with a leadoff double in the 3rd I'm probably gonna try to get more than 1 run unless "maybe" if the roster is full of weak hitters and I have Maddux, Glavine, or Smoltz starting with Rivera in the bullpen. Cohen drove me a little nuts last year doing stuff like that.

[Blackout]

SMDH

[Schultzy]

Bunting a leadoff double, I hate that kind of baseball. Still pulling for us of course but I'll be surprised if he makes it.

[sandjunky]

Exactly...I'm not playing for the one run; I'm trying to break it open early in the game

[Schultzy]

Exactly...I'm not playing for the one run; I'm trying to break it open early in the game

And I'll add this, its got to be embarrassing to our players. If I played for the other team I'd be ragging the shit out of our dugout.

[Bucky Dog]

And I'll add this, its got to be embarrassing to our players. If I played for the other team I'd be ragging the shit out of our dugout.

But my confidence would be crushed for the coach not allowing me the chance to get a hit and drive in the run! It makes now freaking sense in the world to bunt right there. None!!

[tcdog70]

Stovall has speed, why not bunt for a hit in that situation? A nice drag bunt would be OK. Or you could hit the ball to the right side and that would advance the runner. A straight up sacrifice bunt there just sucks.

[dawgday166]

SMDH

Yea ... LOL.

[dawgday166]

Stovall has speed, why not bunt for a hit in that situation? A nice drag bunt would be OK. Or you could hit the ball to the right side and that would advance the runner. A straight up sacrifice bunt there just sucks.

That's why I said in earlier post I might could see a drag or push bunt. Way back in HS I actually batted in 4 hole most of the time from 9th grade though 12, in HS & Summer league ball. Wasn't a mega power hitter, but hit line drives and drove runs in. Had a good coach, especially when it came to hitting. Had a little speed and I could bunt, so i had green light to drag or push bunt in some of those situations when the infield was playing back. I can't recall ever being asked to sac bunt though. Hit and run or run and hit I was called to do .. especially hit and run. Batter has to make contact then.

What Bucky said about confidence is probably happening too. That's why I said I'd probably want to quit in one of my other posts. Plus, you don't make it to the bigs by being a good bunter.

Wanting to give Cohen the benefit of the doubt earlier is why I asked from the board if Stovall could hit. Even then in my mind you'd have to be a damn poor hitter for me to even consider doing something like that, and from reading a little it seems like most of the team can hit pretty good. I think Cohen fell in love with small ball in 2013 and is now taking it into the twilight zone ... and to me he is playing in a twilight zone in baseball I've never witnessed. I've never seen ANYONE have a small ball strategy (if that is what it is) like him. Makes no damn sense half the time.

Something else I scratch my head at a little ... Cohen played a lot last year like he had great pitching. I don't recall that being the case.

[Blackout]

This is SEC college baseball our 1-9 should be able to hit without meddling... And they can. Just stop meddling.

[dawgday166]

This is SEC college baseball our 1-9 should be able to hit without meddling... And they can. Just stop meddling.

That's sorta my thinking (and there's a DH). Size of ballpark doesn't matter if you drive hard-hit line drives all over the place.

From reading boards, all these guys had very good summer leagues with wooden bats. Makes me wonder what happens to them when they come back to school. All of the sudden they can't hit and have to bunt runners over all the time?

And the pitching staff and philosophy is such that Cohen thinks they can hold everyone to 2 or 3 runs max while using 5 pitchers a game?

I don't know ... I don't have a PhD in baseball, but this sure perplexes me.

[War Machine Dawg]

That's sorta my thinking (and there's a DH). Size of ballpark doesn't matter if you drive hard-hit line drives all over the place.

From reading boards, all these guys had very good summer leagues with wooden bats. Makes me wonder what happens to them when they come back to school. All of the sudden they can't hit and have to bunt runners over all the time?

And the pitching staff and philosophy is such that Cohen thinks they can hold everyone to 2 or 3 runs max while using 5 pitchers a game?

I don't know ... I don't have a PhD in baseball, but this sure perplexes me.

Wooden bats are hotter than BBCOR bats. That's why the NCAA changed the baseball.

[dawgday166]

Huh ... didn't know that about the bats. Saw something about change of baseball and changes seemed to affect amount of movement (lower seams I believe).

[War Machine Dawg]

Huh ... didn't know that about the bats. Saw something about change of baseball and changes seemed to affect amount of movement (lower seams I believe).

Correct. The ball is also supposed to carry further when hit. But the current BBCOR bats are deader than a hammer. That's why they "thunk" instead of "ping" now.