2016 MSU Football Recruiting Thread

[msstate7]

I really hope we close strong to get around top 20 in recruiting rankings, but I'm gonna TRY not to melt if we don't. In '10 we were #35 and #33 in '11... Those 2 classes helped us reach #1 for 5 weeks last year. Hopefully this class is better than advertised.

[bulldawg28]

Not to start any more drama but Bama and SC have offered Korey Banks Jr and State still hasn't. The kid can play either DB or WR

[msstate7]

Not to start any more drama but Bama and SC have offered Korey Banks Jr and State still hasn't. The kid can play either DB or WR

Wow... Bama offered, but not us

[Really Clark?]

They are important too. We really need all four to salvage the class.

See we don't need them to salvage anything. Saying that makes it sound like our commits are scrubs right now. They are really good players right now. We just have 15 commits. The avg rating of the players puts us right at the Top 25 right now. We want the other players but we don't need them to salvage what we have already.

[HancockCountyDog]

Weren't we making a push for Willie Allen? Just saw that we aren't in his Top 4....but guess who IS?

The bears have been in on Allen for a while. I genuinely don't know if they have a spot for him, Allen's stock has been falling all season.

It looks like LSU has put a firm offer on the table for Allen, he didn't have one a few weeks ago, same with Georgia.

That is why he reached out to us and TCU. Since we aren't getting him, I think Allen is a Damien Robinson type recruit and I've said that for over a month, no sour grapes here.

[CadaverDawg]

Not to start any more drama but Bama and SC have offered Korey Banks Jr and State still hasn't. The kid can play either DB or WR

Why haven't we offered this kid? From what I understood, Banks Sr was basically begging for a State offer. What the hell?

[msstate7]

Why haven't we offered this kid? From what I understood, Banks Sr was basically begging for a State offer. What the hell?

He's listed at 6' wr. Do we not like his size out wide? Trying to figure it out

[Bothrops]

Why in the name of hell are we not all over 5* DT Rashard Lawrence of Monroe, La, or what about recent Tennessee decommit D'Andre Christmas Giles. Both DTs that we desperately, desperately need that would play early.

LSU already has 2 or 3 DT's committed. I mean WTF? Just give-in because the dude has an offer list a mile long. Monroe, La is on the edge of our recruiting territory. Are we even talking to this kid?

[Really Clark?]

Why in the name of hell are we not all over 5* DT Rashard Lawrence of Monroe, La, or what about recent Tennessee decommit D'Andre Christmas Giles. Both DTs that we desperately, desperately need that would play early.

LSU already has 2 or 3 DT's committed. I mean WTF? Just give-in because the dude has an offer list a mile long. Monroe, La is on the edge of our recruiting territory. Are we even talking to this kid?

Lawrence is a great player but his sites have been firmly on Bama and LSU with Ohio State 3rd. And took an official to UCLA but has been to Bama multiple times. He is wanting to go out of state and to an elite program but LSU put a full court press on him recently as well. He just not interested in hardly anybody that is not way off or recently won national titles. Let's be realistic on what time we should spend on a player.

We have been on Giles and were probably in his top 5 or so. LSU favorite right now but Brick Haley has a good connection with him for a while for Texas. TCU is 3rd right now I think.

[Bothrops]

Lawrence is a great player but his sites have been firmly on Bama and LSU with Ohio State 3rd. And took an official to UCLA but has been to Bama multiple times. He is wanting to go out of state and to an elite program but LSU put a full court press on him recently as well. He just not interested in hardly anybody that is not way off or recently won national titles. Let's be realistic on what time we should spend on a player.

We have been on Giles and were probably in his top 5 or so. LSU favorite right now but Brick Haley has a good connection with him for a while for Texas. TCU is 3rd right now I think.

Thanks for the info. I'd try to get Giles in for a visit. LSU won't sign both, considering what they already have committed. We should make the pitch to players that we need.

[engie]

See we don't need them to salvage anything. Saying that makes it sound like our commits are scrubs right now. They are really good players right now. We just have 15 commits. The avg rating of the players puts us right at the Top 25 right now. We want the other players but we don't need them to salvage what we have already.

I think it's just annoying because last year showed flashes of us being able to take another step forward in recruiting above what Mullen has done here thusfar -- and even if we actually do manage to close strong -- this year will be a step back from that class. It's like we have fallen asleep at the wheel to an extent. I want and expect to see us outwork everyone else, especially with how the season ended, and I haven't seen it thusfar. We've managed something like 12 decommits in this class already. Regardless of how and why, that's an insane number, to be no more highly rated than we currently are regardless of how we end up.

We can't keep having one good class followed by one subpar class and expect to take another step forward. The class of 2013 is a bust. And 2015 already has more contributors than 2014. 6 of the top 7 in the c/o 2012 panned out. 3 of the top 12 in the class of 2013 have panned out thusfar. That's insane. And it highlights the hole in the team going forward.

And hence my concern because we're looking at a situation where the underclassmen are clearly more talented than the upperclassmen -- which leads to me banging my head against the wall.

[Really Clark?]

Thanks for the info. I'd try to get Giles in for a visit. LSU won't sign both, considering what they already have committed. We should make the pitch to players that we need.

It's interesting with Giles in that LSU is his favorite now that they finally offered a few weeks ago. Now whether he is a back up plan or a full take right now will be interesting to see. Definitely keep trying to get him to visit and hope to overcome Texas, who I think is his back up if LSU decides to not take him in the end. He got offered by LSU right before his visit to Texas and then decommits from Tenn the day after he returns from Texas. He has gotten hot push late from those two schools.

[Really Clark?]

I think it's just annoying because last year showed flashes of us being able to take another step forward in recruiting above what Mullen has done here thusfar -- and even if we actually do manage to close strong -- this year will be a step back from that class. It's like we have fallen asleep at the wheel to an extent. I want and expect to see us outwork everyone else, especially with how the season ended, and I haven't seen it thusfar. We've managed something like 12 decommits in this class already. Regardless of how and why, that's an insane number, to be no more highly rated than we currently are regardless of how we end up.

We can't keep having one good class followed by one subpar class and expect to take another step forward. The class of 2013 is a bust. And 2015 already has more contributors than 2014. 6 of the top 7 in the c/o 2012 panned out. 3 of the top 12 in the class of 2013 have panned out thusfar. That's insane. And it highlights the hole in the team going forward.

And hence my concern because we're looking at a situation where the underclassmen are clearly more talented than the upperclassmen -- which leads to me banging my head against the wall.

I can understand that. I just don't get as bent about rankings as others do. We do need to address areas with this class and they are out there for the close. And if we do our avg rank per player will probably be very close to last year's but the number may hurt the final standings if we only take 20-22 players even if the avg ranking per player is the same. If it stays about where we are right now it still would put us around the Top 25 with player ratings avg. However would like to see a strong close.

[engie]

I can understand that. I just don't get as bent about rankings as others do. We do need to address areas with this class and they are out there for the close. And if we do our avg rank per player will probably be very close to last year's but the number may hurt the final standings if we only take 20-22 players even if the avg ranking per player is the same. If it stays about where we are right now it still would put us around the Top 25 with player ratings avg. However would like to see a strong close.

I don't care so much about rankings as hitting on primary targets and the guys we get panning out. We hit at a very high rate in 2012 and 2015 and this year we haven't thusfar. 2013 is a bust and 2014 isn't looking a lot better. I want to see us take 5 OL and 5 DL more often than not and consistently trim fat both places. If an upperclassman didn't start or get significant time this year, they should be gone. I've seen Turner do a good job with the talent Wilson had in place when he got here -- but we've managed to get extremely thin on the DL under his watch. Zero DL on the team classified as sophs this season. Somehow we thought it would be OK to just take Chris Jones and Trent Simpson in the class of 2013 along the DL and then just take Cory, Hoyett, Coleman, and Harris in 2014. 6 DL in two classes, of which only Jones has panned out so far. Cory Thomas was really disappointing this year but I still have high hopes. Coleman and Hoyett are career backups. Who knows on Harris? We haven't, at this point, definitely hit on a HS DL since Chris Jones.

[ScottH]

One of you experts help me. Here is where I get frosted and maybe unjustly.

Quick look at 247 Top 50 tells the story....(My ranking numbers may be off 1 here or there)
MSU visits from #8 and #35
UM visits from #1,2,5, 9, 17,33,35,41 commits #2,5 leans #41
They had connections to Kimchee and Treadwell. No apparent connects here other than hiring of the brother.

Until someone proves it let's take the obvious answer off the table shall we.

Now, why can't we get any love from the top guys? Do we even try?

As an outsider our recruiting looks almost lackadaisical at times. A staff member will tell you we recruit the top guys. My bet is their definition is sent out an "offer" and see what happens. I view almost as a lazy sales rep sending out a direct mail piece and waiting for the phone to ring.

Our sisters up north make an organized concerted effort with the top guys. Each prospect's "champion" (could be anyone from girlfriend to pastor) is identified and recruited by an assigned coach in conjunction with the prospect. Does it get them everyone? Of course not. Does it get them further then us. The stats 10 lines up says it does. Looks like 8 (I think 9 as of today) of the top 50 have visited or will visit Oxford. 2 to Stark Vegas.

Anyway back to the original musing ....is most of the problem what the coaches have to sell? (Howland and Cohen disagree) Or the selling process or effort the coaches put forth? I'm going with the latter.

[Really Clark?]

I think Thomas still has potential to take a step next year. Grant Harris may end up being decent. I think Fletcher Adams has a chance to be good. I want to see if Gerri makes the full time transition to DE if he can handle it. He may end up being good but we definitely have to wait and see. Obviously losing Joesph was tragic. Jones and Mullins need time to develop. Not doubt there are question marks and can see possible busts but some possible big jumps can also happen from the 2014 and 2015 classes. The DL is at a crossroads. I think if we get Kobe and good DT for this class then there will be talent there, just several young unproven guys.

[Really Clark?]

One of you experts help me. Here is where I get frosted and maybe unjustly.

Quick look at 247 Top 50 tells the story....(My ranking numbers may be off 1 here or there)
MSU visits from #8 and #35
UM visits from #1,2,5, 9, 17,33,35,41 commits #2,5 leans #41
They had connections to Kimchee and Treadwell. No apparent connects here other than hiring of the brother.

Until someone proves it let's take the obvious answer off the table shall we.

Now, why can't we get any love from the top guys? Do we even try?

As an outsider our recruiting looks almost lackadaisical at times. A staff member will tell you we recruit the top guys. My bet is their definition is sent out an "offer" and see what happens. I view almost as a lazy sales rep sending out a direct mail piece and waiting for the phone to ring.

Our sisters up north make an organized concerted effort with the top guys. Each prospect's "champion" (could be anyone from girlfriend to pastor) is identified and recruited by an assigned coach in conjunction with the prospect. Does it get them everyone? Of course not. Does it get them further then us. The stats 10 lines up says it does. Looks like 8 (I think 9 as of today) of the top 50 have visited or will visit Oxford. 2 to Stark Vegas.

Anyway back to the original musing ....is most of the problem what the coaches have to sell? (Howland and Cohen disagree) Or the selling process or effort the coaches put forth? I'm going with the latter.

You can't compare what Howland and Cohen are doing with football anymore than Kentucky fans should compare their basketball recruiting to their football. Or Bama fans should compare their football recruiting to basketball. It's not apples to apples and if anyone thinks football is dirty, get involved with basketball recruiting. Different level altogether. Although I am worried football is headed down that path. We have the history to also back up those two sports more so than football. It makes a difference.

As far as what UNM is doing, you answered your own question in the first sentence of the next to last paragraph. They do have a consorted effort. But it's not just their coaches. Not by a large margin. They don't have anywhere close to the background from their previous coaching stops to be able to recruit at a Top 5 level. But they have the playbook and the network working together. Look at the Top 50 player list you made of them. That's equal to Alabama's visits from the Top 50 players. We can't possible believe they are better or harder recruiters that Bama's staff. Who have multiple national titles and playing for another again this year. It's not their coaches.

[engie]

How is it easier for Howland than it is for our football coaches? I get that Cohen has some built-in advantages. But basketball has no more advantages than our football program has in this snapshot of time. He's just been much better at selling his pedigree in order to keep building it than ANY of our football coaches have done. It's self perpetuating.

[bulldawg28]

Why haven't we offered this kid? From what I understood, Banks Sr was basically begging for a State offer. What the hell?

To stir the pot further I found out whose the recruiter for the area...Mr. Hevvvvv. The dude can flat out play and run. He won defensive MVP trophies at corner and never played it during the season. He's THAT athletic with 4.3 40 times at every camp attended. I've watched him cover one on one's against the top talent in the country in camps and he's better than Nigel Knott hands down in coverage.

[Really Clark?]

How is it easier for Howland than it is for our football coaches? I get that Cohen has some built-in advantages. But basketball has no more advantages than our football program has in this snapshot of time. He's just been much better at selling his pedigree in order to keep building it than ANY of our football coaches have done. It's self perpetuating.

Howland does have a big advantage with his background and experience compared to Mullen you have to admit. And has been at the basketball recruiting game a long time. And at times we have been considered more of a basketball school but never a football school. There is still a stigma that we can't see because we are too close. People keep talking about out of state kids but it doesn't help when the perception by the media that undervalues what ever we accomplish. Some of it is subtle, but it's there. How many times have kids been interviewed after a visit that their perception of the school was wrong. Even after last year, picked last because we are terrible but only have Dak. That was the only reason we were #1, we lucked up with an underrated QB that LSU wanted to convert to TE. Subtle and not so subtle things from supposed outsiders with no agenda that seeps into kids heads. We are just a one hit wonder. Some kids like to read what the fans think of their coach, that paints a picture. You know as well as I that there are multitude of variables for each kid. I do think some added dynamic recruiters would help. If they will stay for a length of time. But Gonzo has been considered a very good recruiter every where he has been, how many has he pulled for us? There is a stigma out there, it's getting better just not the pace we would like.