Can someone remind me again how Croom came to be an SEC head coaching candidate?

[Barking 13]

Fair enough. Probably the most accurate of any.

I mean actually both are good men.. just not SEC coaches... and you have to remember where we were in the pecking order at the time... nobody would touch us with a ten foot pole...

[Really Clark?]

Name an SEC coach in the modern era who was hired that had never been a successful college coordinator before. Mike Shula is the only one I can think of.

It was painfully obvious Croominator knew nothing about the college game when he stayed at Green Bay during the playoffs instead of coming to MSU to recroot (in the most crucial part of the crootin calendar).

There are 3 or 4 Vandy coaches (Watson Brown, Dowhower, Woodenhofer sp?) that were very weak and had questionable resume. Morriss at Kentucky as well.

ETA. Caldwell at Vandy as well

[Really Clark?]

I mean actually both are good men.. just not SEC coaches... and you have to remember where we were in the pecking order at the time... nobody would touch us with a ten foot pole...

Jumbo Fisher was willing with a much shorter pole.

[Todd4State]

I think a big reason why LT focused on Croom was because LT seemed infatuated with coaches with a connection to Alabama and the Bear plus his skin color. Not to mention that LT was cheap and lazy. I'm sure we probably could have gotten Strong or someone like that had we pushed some.

Croom didn't even really want our job if I remember- I think his wife and one of his friends talked him into it. I think in reality he looked down on us and I think that hurt him and consequently us as well.

[starkvegasdawg]

Jumbo Fisher was willing with a much shorter pole.

I'll be honest...after watching the nonstop episodes of Cops that is the FSU football program I'm glad we didn't get Fisher.

[mparkerfd20]

I mean actually both are good men.. just not SEC coaches... and you have to remember where we were in the pecking order at the time... nobody would touch us with a ten foot pole...

I don't necessarily agree. I don't think Croom was half as good of a man as he got credit for.

[Really Clark?]

I'll be honest...after watching the nonstop episodes of Cops that is the FSU football program I'm glad we didn't get Fisher.

Well I probably agree but that's hindsight. And also the FSU culture and pressure for him to win might have attributed to that program. His program here might have been a good bit different. But if not, I agree with you.

[Churchill]

He was a necessary pawn in a publicity stunt put together by LT and the league. It cost us dearly and made him a shit load of money. I am also curious as to what specific things he did for so many to label him a "great man". I.E. charities , civic etc ? Are there many former player testimonials that would attest to his greatness ?

[Jarius]

He didn't do anything while here that made me think he was any better of a man than any other decent human being that makes millions of dollars. If he was that great he wouldn't have trashed us after we fired him as if he didn't deserve it.

[PassInterference]

Find the Templeton interviews from back then. He said his priority was to find someone to represent the school. Character, pride, etc. Templeton never said a word about football.

This post has been brought to you by Carrie Underwood's legs. #CMAS

[HSVDawg]

Looking back at the situation at the time Croom's initial rise to recognition does add some clarity. Flash back to 2003. Bama had just been forced to fire Mike Price in the early summer due to his multiple indiscretions. That is an awful time to be looking for a football coach, especially at a powerhouse like Bama. Also, Bama then was not the Bama of now in Saban's era of domination. Dennis Franchione had just fled the coup for Texas A&M 6 months prior, his replacement had already been shitcanned, and they were recovering from pretty severe NCAA sanctions that resulted from the DuBose era. Long story short, Bama was at that time just a middle of the road SEC West program that was wrapping up a 6 year long stretch of mediocrity that followed Gene Stallings retirement, and they were looking for a football coach in June.

Given all of the above information, it's not hard to see that Alabama was going to be short on viable candidates to fill the spot after Price was canned. Coaching carousel season had long since passed. Nobody wanted to leave their current program at that time of the year unless it was a one in a million opportunity, which Alabama certainly was not at that time. So, a couple of alumni in Croom and Shula surfaced as the lead names, both of which were NFL assistants and therefore in the only class of candidates that could afford to leave their current roles. Both were interviewed, Shula got the nod, the BCA complained, etc. The one thing that gets lost in all this is that every reasonable Bama fan knew that based on the circumstances this was going to be a placeholder hire that would be dealt with accordingly. Sure enough, Shula lasted just 4 years and was fired despite not significantly deviating in the W-L column from the 6 years prior.

Nevertheless, through media magic Croom got some pub from being a finalist for this "premier" job, despite the fact that several unlikely events had to occur for him to even be considered (someone actually deciding to leave Bama, a six month stint for a replacement that coached 0 games, etc). LT of course ate it up like the fool that he was, and flash forward 1 year later and Croom is our coach. The reality is that neither Croom nor Shula were remotely qualified to be considered for head coaching positions at the BCS conference level, but both fell ass backwards into head gigs in the SEC. This was all primarily due to their history at Bama and a confluence of odd circumstances. It's a small miracle how it all worked out and there should probably be a 30-for-30 on it someday.

[TUSK]

I seem to recall that the Alabama AD, Mal Moore, (who also was responsible for the Mike Shula hire) put Croom's name into LTs ear.

.... and ya'll thought all Bammer did was payoff refs & recruits...

[tcdog70]

A resume that includes a decade as an assistant at one of the top programs in college football, followed by 17 years as an NFL coach, including 4 years as an NFL OC?

Seriously?

How did Mike Shula become an SEC HC candidate? How about Phil Fulmer? Ed Orgeron?

Croom coached Barry Sanders to the best year of his career and led Ahman Green to multiple 1,200 yard seasons, including almost 1,900 yards the year before we hired him. I'm not saying he was the most obvious candidate there's been, but he was no less qualified than plenty of coaches who have been hired, especially at a school like State and especially over a decade ago.

Why would what we know now play into it?

You can't help it. Are you kin to the Slytantic. You were a Sly apoligist to the very end. He was a bad hire and a terrible Coach. Any one that wasn't blinded by the Maroon is all that matters mantra could tell after 1 game that Croom was a pretender. He had more players thrown under the Bus or arrested that any Coach in our history. But Here you are still with the Croom love.

[smootness]

You can't help it. Are you kin to the Slytantic. You were a Sly apoligist to the very end. He was a bad hire and a terrible Coach. Any one that wasn't blinded by the Maroon is all that matters mantra could tell after 1 game that Croom was a pretender. He had more players thrown under the Bus or arrested that any Coach in our history. But Here you are still with the Croom love.

Please show me where I gave him 'love' in that post. I simply said that Croom is not the least qualified candidate for an SEC HC job, and he's probably not one of the 10-15 least qualified candidates. That is a fact.

So if the question is, how was Croom an SEC HC candidate, it seems you're really just saying, I think there have been a lot of SEC HC candidates and HCs who shouldn't have been considered.

That's fine as an opinion, but singling out Croom as somehow less qualified than pretty much everyone else is weird.

Part of it is that it was a different time. It's unlikely a guy with that resume would get a look now. But go back and look at the 90s; it wasn't overly unusual then. I've admitted multiple times that I was wrong on Croom and that with clearer eyes in hindsight, it's unlikely he ever would have produced a consistent winner. But it wasn't crazy that he was a candidate at the time.

[shoeless joe]

He was a necessary pawn in a publicity stunt put together by LT and the league. It cost us dearly and made him a shit load of money. I am also curious as to what specific things he did for so many to label him a "great man". I.E. charities , civic etc ? Are there many former player testimonials that would attest to his greatness ?

I know two guys pretty well that played for croom...they love the man and defend him feverishly whenever this type discussion comes up. Both these guys were there at Sherrill's end and always speak to how bad things were when he took over.

I also was friends with another player while I was in college and his account of croom was quite different. If the stories he told were true then croom was no different or better of a man than any other coach

[drunkernhelldawg]

He was our first Rick Ray... I applaud both for being the scapegoat after a dumpster fire, and allowing us to be able to get to where we are now... end of story....

Winner.

[tcdog70]

Please show me where I gave him 'love' in that post. I simply said that Croom is not the least qualified candidate for an SEC HC job, and he's probably not one of the 10-15 least qualified candidates. That is a fact.

So if the question is, how was Croom an SEC HC candidate, it seems you're really just saying, I think there have been a lot of SEC HC candidates and HCs who shouldn't have been considered.

That's fine as an opinion, but singling out Croom as somehow less qualified than pretty much everyone else is weird.

Part of it is that it was a different time. It's unlikely a guy with that resume would get a look now. But go back and look at the 90s; it wasn't overly unusual then. I've admitted multiple times that I was wrong on Croom and that with clearer eyes in hindsight, it's unlikely he ever would have produced a consistent winner. But it wasn't crazy that he was a candidate at the time.

He coach 17 years in the NFL and got a chance as a OC and failed big time. Barry Sanders didn't need Sly to be great. He really didn't want to be at MSU. he had absolutely no clue what recruiting was about. He tried to cram a West Coast offense down our throats but he failed to recruit the Players to make it work. the stupidest shit to ever come out of His mouth(and there were plenty to chose from) was he knew we were going to lose to Maine they were the better team. He should have fired the minute that came out of his mouth.

[smootness]

He coach 17 years in the NFL and got a chance as a OC and failed big time. Barry Sanders didn't need Sly to be great. He really didn't want to be at MSU. he had absolutely no clue what recruiting was about. He tried to cram a West Coast offense down our throats but he failed to recruit the Players to make it work. the stupidest shit to ever come out of His mouth(and there were plenty to chose from) was he knew we were going to lose to Maine they were the better team. He should have fired the minute that came out of his mouth.

Hardly any of that addresses his initial candidacy.

Check out this link:http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/det/. Croom had one above-average year in Detroit, one slightly below-average year, and two average years offensively during his time at OC. It took 7 years after he left before they had an offense as good as his worst. They had a record of at least .500 3 out of his 4 years as OC there and made the playoffs twice. The next time they won as many as 8 or made the playoffs after Bobby Ross' staff left? 2011, 11 years later.

Barry Sanders had the best year of his career under Croom in 1997, and Sanders didn't play in 1999 or 2000. The team went 17-15 in those years, with Gus Frerotte and Charlie Batch at QB and James Stewart and Greg Hill as leading rushers. Bobby Ross resigned midway through the 2000 season, not due to performance. The new coach then cleaned house after that year. Croom then went to Green Bay, where Ahman Green had tons of success under him; GB was 23rd in the NFL in rushing in 2000, before Croom, then jumped to 21 in 2001, 12 in 2002, and finally 3rd in the NFL in 2003, with Ahman Green finishing 2nd in the league with almost 1,900 yards.

His offenses ranked 4th, 20th, 15th, and 22nd in points and 2nd, 14th, 21st, and 27 in yards in Detroit. Is that great? Of course not. I'm not about to argue that Croom is a great offensive mind or that he was phenomenal in Detroit. But pretending he was awful is crazy. This was his resume at the time we hired him. It's not a great resume, but it's certainly not terrible or crazy that he might be considered for a college HC job.

[Bocephus]

[QUOTE=starkvegasdawg;441494]Without getting this thread thrown to the political board I think the SEC office was trying to make a statement and it was our turn to bat. I've heard rumors that we were told that if we played ball that it would be taken into consideration by the NCAA when it came sanction time. Not sure that was true but our sanctions weren't that bad for what they were trying to accuse us of.[/QU

[thunderclap]

His resume from Wiki:

Alabama (GA/C, 1976)
Alabama (ILB, 1977?1981)
Alabama (OLB, 1982?1983)
Alabama (ILB, 1984?1986)
Tampa Bay Buccaneers (RB, 1987?1990)
Indianapolis Colts (RB, 1991)
San Diego Chargers (RB, 1992?1996)
Detroit Lions (OC, 1997?2000)
Green Bay Packers (RB, 2001?2003)


How exactly does a resume like that, knowing what we know now, lend itself to make one an SEC head coaching candidate?

Yes. Larry Templeton.