Bearing FRUIT....what does the "fruit" show?

[Coach 57]

There seems to be an opinion that I've noticed on here by some about our offense. I am of an opinion (take it for what it is) that we have turned into a "pass happy" offense. A few things:

1.) What is the spread core principle? The spread is designed to LITERALLY make a defense be HONEST and not cheat! The key is the safety position! Spreads are designed (whether by a run core or pass core) to make safeties be honest and not cheat. By doing this you must have guys who can make plays in the space provided to create 1 on 1 match ups. I could give a rip what Bo Bounds says but we HAVE THESE GUYS! We have the greatest QB in MSU history slinging the ball around. So what's the problem? Why are we averaging no more points than we are in these last games (dating back to Arky last yr)?

a.) Defenses do NOT respect our passing game. The reason they don't is because most spread gunning teams actually stretch the field vertically! We do not!

Most defensive schemes we face are cover 1. Meaning 1 high safety. LSU actually went cover 0 (no high safety at all). Offenses that DO stretch the field would drool over this coverage(s)! I'm a Bible thumper & an absolute Jesus freak, I believe though roughly in the concept of "fruit". We bear the fruit of a team STUCK in a rut of no identity based on what defenses show us. This is a HUGE problem because our best teams were teams that had an identity! We need to find out who we are on offense and if we are going to be a passing team (as fruits have shown), then we need to stretch the field vertically but we CANNOT because we have pass pro problems. So what do we do?

[PassInterference]

How about we put a TE on the slot, motion him, then park him in the backfield to block.

[Todd4State]

I think we should program a deep pass play or two into our first 15 play script and then make it a goal to make sure that we attempt at least five deep passes a game.

And I'd make sure that I target Bear with most of those.

I do agree with you that our play caller is in a rut. I am hopeful that Jenkins will help the o-line and the only other solutions I know are to play an H-back on the wing like we did against A&M, and to play a FB.

[ShotgunDawg]

I'm not an Xs and Os football guy, but I guess I'm missing where Dak is being molested in the pocket. Trust me, I've watched enough MSU football over the years to know what it looks like when a QB is molested and I don't see that happening. This certainly isn't our best offensive line, but I'm missing where they are supposedly so bad.

From my vantage point, Dak has mostly had time in the pocket and we are simply choosing to not stretch the field.

Again, perhaps I have clue what I'm talking about and our offensive line is awful, but I'm not seeing that.

[Political Hack]

We're a pass happy team that can't protect the QB long enough to go deep. That's an issue.

[ShotgunDawg]

We're a pass happy team that can't protect the QB long enough to go deep. That's an issue.

Is it true that we don't protect the QB long enough?

Again, I'm missing where Dak is being molested back there

[PassInterference]

Mike Leach's answer was 4 verticals. Four guys running deep down the field will open stuff up short & intermediate, and create running space. Will also open a home run throw if the D isn't tryin to cover the 4 verticals.

[Treemydawg]

There seems to be an opinion that I've noticed on here by some about our offense. I am of an opinion (take it for what it is) that we have turned into a "pass happy" offense. A few things:

1.) What is the spread core principle? The spread is designed to LITERALLY make a defense be HONEST and not cheat! The key is the safety position! Spreads are designed (whether by a run core or pass core) to make safeties be honest and not cheat. By doing this you must have guys who can make plays in the space provided to create 1 on 1 match ups. I could give a rip what Bo Bounds says but we HAVE THESE GUYS! We have the greatest QB in MSU history slinging the ball around. So what's the problem? Why are we averaging no more points than we are in these last games (dating back to Arky last yr)?

a.) Defenses do NOT respect our passing game. The reason they don't is because most spread gunning teams actually stretch the field vertically! We do not!

Most defensive schemes we face are cover 1. Meaning 1 high safety. LSU actually went cover 0 (no high safety at all). Offenses that DO stretch the field would drool over this coverage(s)! I'm a Bible thumper & an absolute Jesus freak, I believe though roughly in the concept of "fruit". We bear the fruit of a team STUCK in a rut of no identity based on what defenses show us. This is a HUGE problem because our best teams were teams that had an identity! We need to find out who we are on offense and if we are going to be a passing team (as fruits have shown), then we need to stretch the field vertically but we CANNOT because we have pass pro problems. So what do we do?

Play action???

[DancingRabbit]

Dak has to see or choose to throw to the open deep man, then get the ball to him. There were two wide-open TD opportunties missed.

[PassInterference]

Play action???

Not with a weak running game.

[Dallas_Dawg]

4 verticals sounds pretty good with Bear, the Fred's, and Gray. Myles when he's back as well.

[SallyStansbury]

We're a pass happy team that can't protect the QB long enough to go deep. That's an issue.

The comment above sums it up nicely.

It speaks to deficiency on the Oline. We should have had a fullback, Hback or TE to help our LT because he was abused at A&M. Maybe 2nd string guy can do better, I hope. A&M on the Oline kept a great number of blockers home to protect because it seemed that when we rushed only 3-4 that everyone was doubleteamed.
We need to hit more of our receivers in stride too. Many of our routes seem to NOT do this, and by not doing this the D has to respect us deep even less. Therefore they cheat up and make our running game look more shitty.

[SPMT]

Dak has time and the garbage O line actually blocks well enough on pass pro.

The wideouts by and large cannot get separation. That was the problem against LSU, no open receivers. I was amazed at how Dak was able to complete so many against LSU.

Against Bama, Ole Miss.....we will struggle getting separation.

[Really Clark?]

Dak has time and the garbage O line actually blocks well enough on pass pro.

The wideouts by and large cannot get separation. That was the problem against LSU, no open receivers. I was amazed at how Dak was able to complete so many against LSU.

Against Bama, Ole Miss.....we will struggle getting separation.

If UNM doesn't fix their secondary we will get separation. They are a mess right now. Bama's weak link is their secondary but their front 7 is really turning it up so it can overcome some issues on the back end. And some of their issues are just experience problems so you figure they should be getting better as the year goes on.

[Coach34]

Good post 57- I agree. We have no identity and absolutely have to stretch the field vertically instead of all this West Coast horizontal passing game. Hell, even Bill Walsh threw it deep

[Irondawg]

What's interesting is that we've run the slot streak play twice with Myles in the 1Q of both our last games and it was wide open. Walley was open deep late in the LSU game. We've thrown a few deep routes to Gray, Bear, Brown but haven't completed a ton of them.

To me a big thing we lack is a guy at WR that can make the 1st guy miss and get YAC. Bear can do it, but we're not hitting him in stride on some stuff to do it. Ross has been a very good receiver for us, but he's not creating much extra yardage after catches. Some of that is routes we're running as well.

I think our passing game it mostly ok. I think it's looked worse b/c when we've set some stuff up we've missed the play. If Dak hits Shumper (twice), Walley, Myles are we as concerned? I do notice Bear isn't getting much seperation on routes though which makes me curious if we're telegraphing the routes or if he's not a great route runner.

But this is still far and away the best aeriel attack we've ever had.

The issue is trying to run. Dak was better, but to me still looks a step slower than last year for some reason. Williams shows the most natural running instincts of the RB crew but had to hold onto the ball. Holloway his the holes the hardest and at least usually generates positive yardage. Still no clue on Lee b/c honestly he hasn't gotten a lot of carries that weren't straight into a run blitz

[BB30]

Yea, we have missed a few deep balls with a couple of guys wide open. I know you can't hit them every time but have to connect on a few of them. We also seem to have a lot of possession receivers and not many burners. Gabe has beat some people, but as far as having a guy that is just going to run past somebody, who is it on this team?

[SallyStansbury]

What's interesting is that we've run the slot streak play twice with Myles in the 1Q of both our last games and it was wide open. Walley was open deep late in the LSU game. We've thrown a few deep routes to Gray, Bear, Brown but haven't completed a ton of them.

To me a big thing we lack is a guy at WR that can make the 1st guy miss and get YAC. Bear can do it, but we're not hitting him in stride on some stuff to do it. Ross has been a very good receiver for us, but he's not creating much extra yardage after catches. Some of that is routes we're running as well.

I think our passing game it mostly ok. I think it's looked worse b/c when we've set some stuff up we've missed the play. If Dak hits Shumper (twice), Walley, Myles are we as concerned? I do notice Bear isn't getting much seperation on routes though which makes me curious if we're telegraphing the routes or if he's not a great route runner.

But this is still far and away the best aeriel attack we've ever had.

The issue is trying to run. Dak was better, but to me still looks a step slower than last year for some reason. Williams shows the most natural running instincts of the RB crew but had to hold onto the ball. Holloway his the holes the hardest and at least usually generates positive yardage. Still no clue on Lee b/c honestly he hasn't gotten a lot of carries that weren't straight into a run blitz

I have to wonder, if we can sit there and predict "here comes Holloway up the gut on 2 and 10...." are opposing coaches able to do the same thing with our WR routes? Are we running the exact same stuff from the exact same positions on the field? Coach34 alluded to this the other day comparing what we do to Kiffin at AL and his offensive variation/creativity. If so, that allows defenders an advantage which allows them to clamp down on our WR's. Dan complains about WR executing, running routes, blah, blah...but with defenders jumping/anticipating these routes, and not respecting the deep ball maybe we are banging our head against the wall expecting different results. It is awful to watch Lee run head on into a run blitz.....painful. Maybe you see Bear sulking because he is effectively doing the same thing making it difficult for him to do his thing? I am not a coach / didn't play / but ask others who may know more about route running if this is the case?

[Coach34]

Yea, we have missed a few deep balls with a couple of guys wide open. I know you can't hit them every time but have to connect on a few of them. We also seem to have a lot of possession receivers and not many burners. Gabe has beat some people, but as far as having a guy that is just going to run past somebody, who is it on this team?

Its Fred Brown- he can fly. And why not throw it deep to Wilson? Give him a shot to make a play

[Coach34]

I have to wonder, if we can sit there and predict "here comes Holloway up the gut on 2 and 10...." are opposing coaches able to do the same thing with our WR routes? Are we running the exact same stuff from the exact same positions on the field? Coach34 alluded to this the other day comparing what we do to Kiffin at AL and his offensive variation/creativity. If so, that allows defenders an advantage which allows them to clamp down on our WR's. Dan complains about WR executing, running routes, blah, blah...but with defenders jumping/anticipating these routes, and not respecting the deep ball maybe we are banging our head against the wall expecting different results. It is awful to watch Lee run head on into a run blitz.....painful. Maybe you see Bear sulking because he is effectively doing the same thing making it difficult for him to do his thing? I am not a coach / didn't play / but ask others who may know more about route running if this is the case?

good post. Our predictability is a huge problem on offense