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Senior Member
At least someone gets it .

Originally Posted by
dawgs
People have real lives. I'm not gonna go out of my way to spend ~4 hours a week watching a basketball team that's going nowhere when I could spend those 4 hours doing things far more enjoyable or things I need to actually get done. I haven't lived driving distance to starkville since 2004, and during the croom era I wasn't exactly scheduling my life around football either. I wanted us to be good. I wanted to care. But when you have life to live, it's hard to put on premium on watching a shitty team even if you love the school. Since mullen's been our HC, I rarely miss a game, and then if there's an absolutely unavoidable conflict, i dvr it to watch later. You may call some of us fairweather fans, but I feel like I don't have enough time to get all I want/need to get done anyway, so watching a losing team over and over is a waste of time.
Mentioning croom made me think how close the parallels between JWS > croom > mullen might be to out basketball program. JWS had a good run but petered out at the end, much like Stans. Croom comes in and sucks for 3 years, the stars align for a flukey liberty bowl that wasn't really indicative of croom getting it as a HC, but more like we had a flukey opportunistic D and a future NFL RB, and the flukeyness of the season was verified in croom's 5th and final season. Similarly Ray is about to have a 3rd straight shitty year, but next year we might get to the NIT based on purely having 3 4 year starters and a 3 year starter in the lineup (equivalent to the liberty bowl), but losing all those seniors will likely lead to a regression back to <.500 in ray's 5th season. Hopefully we can find out mullen at that point. It's amazing that we managed not to learn anything from the croom arc.
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Originally Posted by
dawgs
People have real lives. I'm not gonna go out of my way to spend ~4 hours a week watching a basketball team that's going nowhere when I could spend those 4 hours doing things far more enjoyable or things I need to actually get done. I haven't lived driving distance to starkville since 2004, and during the croom era I wasn't exactly scheduling my life around football either. I wanted us to be good. I wanted to care. But when you have life to live, it's hard to put on premium on watching a shitty team even if you love the school. Since mullen's been our HC, I rarely miss a game, and then if there's an absolutely unavoidable conflict, i dvr it to watch later. You may call some of us fairweather fans, but I feel like I don't have enough time to get all I want/need to get done anyway, so watching a losing team over and over is a waste of time.
Mentioning croom made me think how close the parallels between JWS > croom > mullen might be to out basketball program. JWS had a good run but petered out at the end, much like Stans. Croom comes in and sucks for 3 years, the stars align for a flukey liberty bowl that wasn't really indicative of croom getting it as a HC, but more like we had a flukey opportunistic D and a future NFL RB, and the flukeyness of the season was verified in croom's 5th and final season. Similarly Ray is about to have a 3rd straight shitty year, but next year we might get to the NIT based on purely having 3 4 year starters and a 3 year starter in the lineup (equivalent to the liberty bowl), but losing all those seniors will likely lead to a regression back to <.500 in ray's 5th season. Hopefully we can find out mullen at that point. It's amazing that we managed not to learn anything from the croom arc.
All of that is perfectly fine. I said nothing about having to watch games, and it's everyone's personal choice as to how much they support any team. There's nothing that says you have to do a thing.
My point was simply that whether or not you care is on you, not on anybody else. If you're saying, 'I don't care about Mississippi State basketball right now,' then you don't get to also say, 'We need a new coach.' That was essentially my point.
If you don't care, you don't care. But it's not anybody else's responsibility to make you care. If you want to care, then start caring.
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Originally Posted by
Jacksondevildog
****ing stats. We aren't any good. We are better than we were the last two seasons and that isn't saying much. The SEC is a bad basketball conference. Kentucky is elite and there are three or four average teams. We don't have any shooters. We haven't recruited any shooters, expect for Dunlap, who was rumored close to being dropped by the staff and continues to not play this year for some reason when we need shooters. If Zappardo or Weatherspoon can't bring a spark next year, we are staring .500 for an overall record. We are not getting Newman. There is a small, naive percentage of our fanbase that thinks Ray pulls him. When he doesn't come to MSU, they will pull their support of Ray. I like Ray and he was dealt a tough deck. Ole Miss has found them shooters for the last 4 years. Henderson and Moody. That is the difference in them being a average to below average team and being an NCAA team. If we had Moody, we would be, at least, an NIT team.
Agree that shooters are the big difference, but let's not pretend that talent is the problem on offense. I refuse to believe that the guys we have on the team are the least talented offensively BY FAR in the SEC and are worse than two SWAC teams. If we got a shooter or two we may go to "not abysmal", but somebody has to teach the kids we have how to run a half-court set, inbound the ball, and get out in transition.
We are better this year because we are getting better effort on defense. We are scoring the exact same number of points per game. Ray gets some credit for closing the gap with defense, but there is way more room for improvement on the offensive side of the ball, and it starts with coaching. If we can't get the ball to an open shooter who is trained to take his shot, talent won't matter.
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Here's the thing

Originally Posted by
smootness
Well, honestly, that's on you.
All you really said was, 'I'm only interested in State sports when we're good.'
I don't have a problem with that. I own a business, I'm an elected official here in the Memphis area and I have three small kids. If State doesn't care to be competitive than it's not something I'm going to spend time or money on. I make time for football because we do care (I show up for games as they start and leave as soon as it is done), but if we sucked I wouldn't budget time doing that either.
As I have grown I've realized MSU sports is meant to be fun and entertaining for me and my family. That's all.
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Originally Posted by
smootness
All of that is perfectly fine. I said nothing about having to watch games, and it's everyone's personal choice as to how much they support any team. There's nothing that says you have to do a thing.
My point was simply that whether or not you care is on you, not on anybody else. If you're saying, 'I don't care about Mississippi State basketball right now,' then you don't get to also say, 'We need a new coach.' That was essentially my point.
If you don't care, you don't care. But it's not anybody else's responsibility to make you care. If you want to care, then start caring.
Oh don't spout that horseshit. I don't think anyone is saying they don't care if we are good or not in basketball, they are saying they don't care to closely follow the basketball program right now because we suck. and you know good and damn well that's what was meant. Just because I don't care enough about our 2+-years-and-counting sub-.500 basketball team enough to budget the time to watch the games doesn't meant i can't voice my displeasure in the direction of our program and our desperate need for a better coach.
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Originally Posted by
gtowndawg
I don't have a problem with that. I own a business, I'm an elected official here in the Memphis area and I have three small kids. If State doesn't care to be competitive than it's not something I'm going to spend time or money on. I make time for football because we do care (I show up for games as they start and leave as soon as it is done), but if we sucked I wouldn't budget time doing that either.
As I have grown I've realized MSU sports is meant to be fun and entertaining for me and my family. That's all.
Completely agree. It's MSU's job to compel me to part with my time and money. If MSU is not committed to winning, I'm not committed to parting with my precious and limited resources.
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Someone told me that Stricklin's next door neighbor was Rick Ray. Is that true? Needless to say, that could make it uncomfortable.
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Originally Posted by
shannondawg
Someone told me that Stricklin's next door neighbor was Rick Ray. Is that true? Needless to say, that could make it uncomfortable.
Yes....
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Member

Originally Posted by
gtowndawg
I don't have a problem with that. I own a business, I'm an elected official here in the Memphis area and I have three small kids. If State doesn't care to be competitive than it's not something I'm going to spend time or money on. I make time for football because we do care (I show up for games as they start and leave as soon as it is done), but if we sucked I wouldn't budget time doing that either.
As I have grown I've realized MSU sports is meant to be fun and entertaining for me and my family. That's all.
Absolutely right! I care, but I will not spend my valuable time watching men's basketball (I have watched a few women's games, because their games mean something, the coach has a good offensive game plan, and they win!). It is hard to watch our once proud program now - and I predicted it when it happened. I said people will voice their displeasure by not going to games, and it is the future. I still support State by buying 4 lower level tickets and paying the Bulldog dues, and the saddest part is not one person has asked to use my tickets - people use to bug me to death for them.
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Originally Posted by
engie
This team is on the brink of being what we want it to be...which was my point...
Not even close. Do you actually think a single coach in the SEC is concerned about prepping for MSU? They are not scared by us in the least bit. A team that is 11-3 in the SEC isn't flying under anyone's radar. We would get noticed and teams would actually start making a concerted effort to prep for us. Wins become more difficult to obtain when you get noticed. A switch won't just flick with our team because we're severely lacking in 4 areas as a team almost unanimously 1-12 on the team. We can not shoot. We can not dribble. We can not pass. We can not think.
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Originally Posted by
Dawg61
We can not shoot. We can not dribble. We can not pass. We can not think.
Yet we've won 5 sec games and competed in all, but 2. Ray must do a good job of coaching what he has.
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Originally Posted by
msstate7
Yet we've won 5 sec games and competed in all, but 2. Ray must do a good job of coaching what he has.
Remind me what is our SEC record? Overall record? What is Ray's overall SEC record? We've been over how Ray has been able to keep games close. He has athletes, they play decent defense and they produce lots of fouls. They don't win though. Do you want to win or do you want to play the most boring ass basketball ever just to keep games close? Ray is working diligently at keeping games close. It is Croom football. Ray can not win without smart skilled players. Can not do it. He's not getting first round NBA talent so it's an impossibility to win consistently without smart skillful players. Guys that can shoot, dribble and pass. The most basic fundamentals needed to be a good player. Worst part about it is that Ray can't develop those three skills in his players and they don't have the brain power to retain any knowledge he could bestow on them if he actually had that capability to do so. Ray can teach this only "defense guys, stay in between your man and the basket. The offense will take care of itself". I didn't say those words. He did.
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Originally Posted by
Dawg61
Worst part about it is that Ray can't develop those three skills in his players and they don't have the brain power to retain any knowledge he could bestow on them if he actually had that capability to do so.
If the players don't have the brain power to retain knowledge, how do you know ray isn't capable of teaching?
How do you know the players can't retain knowledge? Maybe they can learn just fine, but Ray can't teach em.
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Originally Posted by
msstate7
If the players don't have the brain power to retain knowledge, how do you know ray isn't capable of teaching?
How do you know the players can't retain knowledge? Maybe they can learn just fine, but Ray can't teach em.
Do you really need to go through an entire new set of players before you're finally convinced? Think about what you're asking here. You are asking for another 3-4 year commitment to Ray. Why? Because of some future players? That's absurd. The signs are everywhere. Read them. We can have this fixed before NEXT SEASON! We can be in the NCAA tournament next year with a good hire. Think about the next coach for a second. Think about how you could best set him up for success. That answer is by giving him a four seniors and one junior starting lineup and a full year to recruit before his first class signs. Wait another year and you seriously deplete his cupboard. Calculated risks have to be made. Ray will not produce a consistent winner because of his lack of offensive coaching ability and/or his lack of understanding on what type of players he needs to sign i.e. smart skillful players.
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Originally Posted by
Dawg61
Do you really need to go through an entire new set of players before you're finally convinced? Think about what you're asking here. You are asking for another 3-4 year commitment to Ray. Why? Because of some future players? That's absurd. The signs are everywhere. Read them. We can have this fixed before NEXT SEASON! We can be in the NCAA tournament next year with a good hire. Think about the next coach for a second. Think about how you could best set him up for success. That answer is by giving him a four seniors and one junior starting lineup and a full year to recruit before his first class signs. Wait another year and you seriously deplete his cupboard. Calculated risks have to be made. Ray will not produce a consistent winner because of his lack of offensive coaching ability and/or his lack of understanding on what type of players he needs to sign i.e. smart skillful players.
All I want for Ray is one more year. If he gets postseason, I'd give him more time. If not, bye.
The great hire by USCe and auburn didn't get them in the postseason in year 1.
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Originally Posted by
msstate7
All I want for Ray is one more year. If he gets postseason, I'd give him more time. If not, bye.
The great hire by USCe and auburn didn't get them in the postseason in year 1.
Do you understand that by giving him even just one more year has a major impact on the next coach? We set realistic expectations of Ray at the beginning of this year at 18 wins and NIT. He will not reach those expectations. We are 12-15 overall and 5-9 SEC. That doesn't cut the mustard. We aren't USCe and Auburn. We don't know all the ins and outs of their basketball programs. We barely recognize ours. We have to do what's best for our PROGRAM not for our coach. This decision is bigger than Ray.
Demand more from our coach 7. I want our program to win for you. Please demand it to win for me.
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What does not getting to the post season in year 1 have to do with ray about to be 4 games under .500 in year 3? Not to mention no one expected pearl to have auburn competing this year. But should we point out that auburn has a borderline top 10 recruiting class while we have a borderline top 50 recruiting class for 2015?
Last edited by dawgs; 02-25-2015 at 03:18 AM.
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Originally Posted by
Dawg61
Do you understand that by giving him even just one more year has a major impact on the next coach? We set realistic expectations of Ray at the beginning of this year at 18 wins and NIT. He will not reach those expectations. We are 12-15 overall and 5-9 SEC. That doesn't cut the mustard. We aren't USCe and Auburn. We don't know all the ins and outs of their basketball programs. We barely recognize ours. We have to do what's best for our PROGRAM not for our coach. This decision is bigger than Ray.
Demand more from our coach 7. I want our program to win for you. Please demand it to win for me.
One post you say we have no talent. The next post you say we need to hire a new coach before these players leave. You said earlier that our players weren't smart enough to learn. Will a new coach be able to teach players you said weren't capable of learning?
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Originally Posted by
msstate7
One post you say we have no talent. The next post you say we need to hire a new coach before these players leave. You said earlier that our players weren't smart enough to learn. Will a new coach be able to teach players you said weren't capable of learning?
Next year's seniors are a buffer for the new coach. They are what they will be at this point but it gives him a full year to get his new players signed. Ray isn't all bad. He is decent but his offensive ceiling is too low for MSU. Maybe MSU twenty years ago and Ray wouldn't have people like me saying he needs to go. Times change. Expectations change. I demand MSU to treat basketball as a co#1. I demand MSU treat its program as top 6 SEC. I'm tired of waiting in the boat of failure for the water to be just right for everyone. Let's go!!
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Originally Posted by
Dawg61
Next year's seniors are a buffer for the new coach. They are what they will be at this point but it gives him a full year to get his new players signed. Ray isn't all bad. He is decent but his offensive ceiling is too low for MSU. Maybe MSU twenty years ago and Ray wouldn't have people like me saying he needs to go. Times change. Expectations change. I demand MSU to treat basketball as a co#1. I demand MSU treat its program as top 6 SEC. I'm tired of waiting in the boat of failure for the water to be just right for everyone. Let's go!!
I wouldn't be mad if we hired a new coach this year. I'm nowhere near sold ray can get us where we need to be. I just don't think there's any way we fire Ray, so I'm trying to keep an open mind and hope for the best
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