The Malik Newman/Diamond Stone Package Deal...

[Dawg61]

This is why you are setting yourself up to be a total idiot -- and a whole bunch of us can't wait. You don't "know" what you've seen is "shit". What the logical among us have seen is a lack of depth and upper-class leadership, with talented players playing before they are ready -- and wearing down as years went on.

You DO NEED to be 100% certain that "Ray is not the guy" before you make any damn decisions. This is what's so stupid about your position.

EVERYONE has considered this "possibility". The problem is with your approach as if it's some sort of "factuality" instead of a "possibility".

It's amazing that despite probably 5,000 words -- you STILL don't understand my point with the Cohen analogies. Let me try it for the 90238409238th time -- A BUNCH of the geniuses in our fanbase thought we had made a mistake hiring him for 2 years. They thought we should fire him after year 2. They thought he was terrible. They cussed him and bitched about literally EVERYTHING. Then, they were wrong. Then, they pretended they were ALWAYS on board with the hire. For the most part, it's the same exact people bitching about Ray -- and KNOWING he won't get it done. They are ignorant to the fact that they were ignorant the last time. And no amount of pasted posts from them bashing Cohen and calling for his head will change their mind or make them "get" the similarity to what they are doing with Ray. It's funny -- EVERYONE that possess even marginal logic understand exactly the point of the analogy. While the sky is falling crowd persist in not understanding -- and doing the same exact thing that posterized them the first time.

Being dunked in a bucket of shit isn't the point. I am not calling Ray a bucket of shit. I don't need to be in a car accident to know what one is either. Whatever analogy you want to use here. I don't need to eat a bowl of ice cream to know it is ice cream. Better? I don't know for 100% that Ray isn't the guy but that doesn't mean I am going to ignore all the signs telling me he isn't. You haven't discussed one single sign since he took the job. That is what frustrates me about this. You won't admit that Ray is showing signs himself that he is indeed not the right guy for the job.

Your deal with Cohen and posters is an issue you have with some posters previous posting habits. Address that issue with those posters specifically when talking to them instead of continually making blanket statements about how "people were wrong with Cohen and look what he's done so they will be wrong with Ray too". Unless you're specifically addressing a specific poster and say it in your post I don't see how baseball correlates to basketball and same with football. Address posters and please stop evaluating hiring decisions because one sport is successful so the other sport will be too.

[thf24]

I don't know for 100% that Ray isn't the guy but that doesn't mean I am going to ignore all the signs telling me he isn't.

I think that's a pretty good point. My opinion on that though is that most, if not all, of those signs can be explained by external factors out of Ray's control, and it's too early to know which is the case.

[engie]

Being dunked in a bucket of shit isn't the point. I am not calling Ray a bucket of shit. I don't need to be in a car accident to know what one is either. Whatever analogy you want to use here. I don't need to eat a bowl of ice cream to know it is ice cream. Better? I don't know for 100% that Ray isn't the guy but that doesn't mean I am going to ignore all the signs telling me he isn't. You haven't discussed one single sign since he took the job. That is what frustrates me about this. You won't admit that Ray is showing signs himself that he is indeed not the right guy for the job.

I've discussed "signs" ad nauseam. Cohen had a bunch of "signs" too. You can't take shit from the early part of a rebuild and expect it to hold true after the rebuild is complete. "Admitted" it in this very thread actually.

The issue is your 100% RAY IS NOT GOING TO GET IT DONE approach. It has not been about "seeing signs" -- it's been 100% certainty from you. Constantly. Just like you've been 100% certain we aren't getting Newman and have ruined EVERY thread about our obvious current momentum on him on multiple boards with that bullshit that YOU DO NOT KNOW NOR HAVE A CLUE ABOUT.

Your deal with Cohen and posters is an issue you have with some posters previous posting habits. Address that issue with those posters specifically when talking to them instead of continually making blanket statements about how "people were wrong with Cohen and look what he's done so they will be wrong with Ray too".

I have done that. Constantly. Where have you been? Ask Coach how many of "your supporters" have been posterized by my search function. And based on your posting history, I highly believe you'd be RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE of that group had you not taken a 1 year hiatus from posting during Cohen's second year here.

Unless you're specifically addressing a specific poster and say it in your post I don't see how baseball correlates to basketball and same with football. Address posters and please stop evaluating hiring decisions because one sport is successful so the other sport will be too.

And you still -- STILL -- fail to understand the correlation. You can't make this shit up.

For literally the 50th time. Although I know you aren't going to "get" it.
IT IS NOT ABOUT THE SPECIFIC SPORTS. OF COURSE THEY ARE ALL VERY DIFFERENT. IT'S ABOUT PREMATURE JUDGEMENT OF COACHES THAT INHERIT A BAD SITUATION AND DURING A REBUILD. THAT IS CONSTANT ACROSS ALL SPORTS. TOO EARLY TO JUDGE IS TOO EARLY TO JUDGE. Doesn't matter if it's football, basketball, or badminton.

FAHR Coach K!11!1

[MadDawg]

Your deal with Cohen and posters is an issue you have with some posters previous posting habits.

Keep in mind, there were some posters that think they know everything that were calling for Mullen to be fired as recently as 9 months ago. So even internet know-it-alls, who call out other posters for being wrong about a coach, can be wrong as well.

[War Machine Dawg]

BOOM!!! And now y'all see why I have been bitching about the Newman talk. It isn't because I don't want Newman. OF COURSE I WANT NEWMAN. But do you see what is now growing amongst our fanbase about Ray and his ability to recruit. Ray is starting to gain credit as a good recruiter FOR NO DAMN REASON.

Ask yourself this question. What coach that would be the HC at MSU COULDN'T be in Newman's top 5? His daddy played for MSU. His house and family are only 2 hours from MSU's campus. He can play SEC basketball on national TV only a short drive from his home. He can be the state's hero for forever by playing for MSU for one season and then go be a mega-milionare for life. WHO CAN'T SELL THAT? That is literally the easiest sell EVER for a coach at MSU. Ray gets zero credit from me for being in Newman's top 5. HIS DADDY IS A LEGACY. Now if Ray LANDS Newman I will be VERY IMPRESSED. Till then adding value to Ray's ability to recruit because he's "in the game" with Newman isn't looking at the situation with open eyes.

No offense WMD you're just the first one to post it.

There is so much fail in your post, I don't know where to begin. But hell, I'll give it a shot.

1) We weren't in Newman's Top 5 when your hero Stans was still employed. It was well known that Horatio didn't want Malik to play for Stans. So much for "What coach that would be the HC at MSU COULDN"T be in Newman's top 5?" That's right, The Recruiter himself.

2) We weren't in the discussion when Ray first got the job. Horatio was reluctant to give an unknown a chance with Malik. Ray has worked his ass off for TWO YEARS to get us into a position where we have a very, very real shot at landing Malik. He must've shown Horatio something in his first two years for Horatio to even let him get into the Malik Sweepstakes.

3) You conveniently ignored the part where I said "there is no close in recruiting, you either land them or you don't."

4) My comment that he appears to be improving isn't based solely on Malik. You are willfully ignoring that he's got us in the game with two top 2015 recruits. If it were just Malik, that would be different. But we've got other top level talent giving us a chance, too.

C34 will back me up on everything I just said.

Once aGAIN, your agenda is overloading your reason. You clearly want Ray to fail and are purposely twisting everything anyone says in support of Ray to fit your agenda. Way to be a douche and kill every hoops thread on the board. I don't expect you to get any of what I just said, but it needed to be said.

[Dawg61]

I've discussed "signs" ad nauseam. Cohen had a bunch of "signs" too. You can't take shit from the early part of a rebuild and expect it to hold true after the rebuild is complete. "Admitted" it in this very thread actually.

The issue is your 100% RAY IS NOT GOING TO GET IT DONE approach. It has not been about "seeing signs" -- it's been 100% certainty from you. Constantly. Just like you've been 100% certain we aren't getting Newman and have ruined EVERY thread about our obvious current momentum on him on multiple boards with that bullshit that YOU DO NOT KNOW NOR HAVE A CLUE ABOUT.


I have done that. Constantly. Where have you been? Ask Coach how many of "your supporters" have been posterized by my search function. And based on your posting history, I highly believe you'd be RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE of that group had you not taken a 1 year hiatus from posting during Cohen's second year here.


And you still -- STILL -- fail to understand the correlation. You can't make this shit up.

For literally the 50th time. Although I know you aren't going to "get" it.
IT IS NOT ABOUT THE SPECIFIC SPORTS. OF COURSE THEY ARE ALL VERY DIFFERENT. IT'S ABOUT PREMATURE JUDGEMENT OF COACHES THAT INHERIT A BAD SITUATION AND DURING A REBUILD. THAT IS CONSTANT ACROSS ALL SPORTS. TOO EARLY TO JUDGE IS TOO EARLY TO JUDGE. Doesn't matter if it's football, basketball, or badminton.

FAHR Coach K!11!1

What signs that Ray isn't the right guy have you admitted? Please humor me and tell me again. Your issue with me is my posting style. Same issue Brad and IAA have with me. I don't know for 100% that Ray isn't the right guy. I am admittedly leaning heavily in that direction though. I don't know for 100% that Ray won't land Newman. I am leaning heavily in that direction though. 100% shouldn't be the determining factor for most things in life. 100% certainty is hard and sometimes impossible to achieve. A basketball coach COULD lose every single game for 100 games straight and then win 100 games straight. Highly unlikely but it is still possible. Ray could lose every game for the next two years and get fired and if we had waited one more year he could win the National Championship. Never know though because he would be fired. You don't have to get every soldier killed before you realize you've lost the fight. Might be best to save a few soldiers for the next fight.

Just say "too early to judge is too early to judge" then instead of trying to give value to Ray for Cohen making a title series. Don't act like you don't do this either. You do. A lot. "Too early to judge is too early to make a final ruling" is what you should be saying. We can judge Ray all we like at this point. Won't change Stricklin from giving him this year and probably next year too. I think we should talk about the signs when we see them instead of sweeping them under the rug and saying "too early to judge is too early to judge". And I didn't take a year long hiatus during Cohen's second season. I just didn't post much about baseball that year because it was obvious we were going to suck no matter what. Just like I would of with Ray during his first season if he hadn't of let the roster get so damn depleted that we only had 6 fu@king players in Maui. That is when the red flags started popping up for me. Tennessee added 8 players in 3 weeks. Auburn added 6 new players in a month with a coach that isn't even allowed to recruit off campus right now. Auburn has shit basketball history compared to MSU. Those two coaches had a plan in place immediately as soon as they took over. We are still trying to figure out a plan.

[Dawg61]

Malik Newman was a freshman in HS when Stansbury got fired. Are we really counting his "top 5" when he's not legal to drive? Please show me where Nych Smith is considered a "top 2015 recruit". He's listed as a 3* 78rated player. That's far from calling him a "top recruit".

[C222]

Malik Newman was a freshman in HS when Stansbury got fired. Are we really counting his "top 5" when he's not legal to drive? Please show me where Nych Smith is considered a "top 2015 recruit". He's listed as a 3* 78rated player. That's far from calling him a "top recruit".

Yeah, not sure what other top 2015 recruit he is talking about. Recruiting definitely needs to pick up.

[Sandman14]

I really don't know why some of you so willingly set yourselves up to potentially look like hysterical idiots down the road. Not saying you won't be right in the end, but no one on the other side is saying with certainty that Ray is going to start winning and get us a natty in the next few years. And how the hell did a man who's had no association with our program in over two years get dragged into yet another basketball thread? Can that please be made a bannable offense, whether it's good or bad?

#1 - Calling for bannings is an automatic sign of the size of one's testicles, remember that.

#2 - To answer your question, you'll need to ask the person who did it. Just making sure you realize that person is not me. It's the one whining about the awful situation Ray walked into THREE YEARS AGO.

#3 - I'm glad you aren't saying I won't be right. I have news for you: I will be right. Maybe I'm just intuitive like that, but I've witnessed enough data. I'm right. But then again, I was right the day Ray was hired, at which time I was operating off of common sense. Now I'm judging strictly based on Ray's two-year track record at MSU.

#4 - Who's talking about "nattys"? I just want to go back to winning 20 games every season rather than getting the breaks beat off of us.

[Coach34]

Malik Newman was a freshman in HS when Stansbury got fired. Are we really counting his "top 5" when he's not legal to drive? Please show me where Nych Smith is considered a "top 2015 recruit". He's listed as a 3* 78rated player. That's far from calling him a "top recruit".

Malik was the #1 freshman in the country Stands last season and was widely expected to be a top recruit. Horatio told people there was no way he'd let Malik play for Stands. 0% chance.

[Dawg61]

Malik was the #1 freshman in the country Stands last season and was widely expected to be a top recruit. Horatio told people there was no way he'd let Malik play for Stands. 0% chance.

Ok and Stansbury was fired. So besides the fired coach that coached Malik's daddy who obviously has a personal beef with him literally any other coach we would of hired would most likely be in Newman's top 5. No points awarded for being in his top 3 even. Y'all are ignoring all the advantages MSU offers Newman here that no other school in the country can offer him. Land him and major points are awarded and probably a contract extension too. Maybe.

[Sandman14]

Stansbury also built his team for 8 years prior to getting the head job -- and still didn't make the NCAAs until year 4.

It's lovely how easy it is to define a Stansbury apologist by the data he uses to define what Stans did here. "20 wins" = "I'm still butt hurt -- and a prime candidate for one of the guys that's sabotaging Ray"

That 21 wins and first round out of the NIT with Two first round NBA players -- another in the league as a free agent currently -- along with a former national #1 recruit -- should say all there is to say. But somehow, to you, it doesn't.

Yep!!1!1 Getting Malik = Getting Lebron!!1!1 Idiot. It took you one post in the last 3 months to remind me why I have to click "view post" every time I'm feeling like reading axe-grinding basketball stupidity. Looking forward to coach banning you again.

Ok now this is another good example of vacuous rabble signifying only one thing: testicle size. We have another plea for a ban. That's automatic "uncle." Straight tap out. Crying to Mumma.

But before I go, let me drop some reality on you for a second:

If getting 20 wins is so easy, why can't Ray get more than 14 in at least one of two years?

Also, who among us wouldn't immediately trade (without any hesitation whatsoever) our current coach and his unskilled yet hard-working (allegedly) roster for Stansbury and a borderline NCAA tournament team consisting of 3 NBA players?

Finally, on the Lebron/Kobe exaggeration, it's obviously meant as an absurd remark to demonstrate the absurdity of all this back patting going on for the recruitment (not signing, mind you) of a Mississippi player. Wake me up when Ray signs his first good player ever. And when I say "good," I'm referring to the type of guys Stansbury brought in on a regular basis--4 and 5 star top ranked recruits--who were the backbone of his run as the alltime greatest basketball coach of MSU, winning 21 games as a borderline tourney team in his last season.

I noticed I got green bump for my comments in this thread. It should serve as a reminder that just because you don't like someone else's opinion, that doesn't mean others feel the same way.


"What is objectionable, what is dangerous about extremists, is not that they are extreme, but that they are intolerant. The evil is not what they say about their cause, but what they say about their opponents."

[AROB44]

the alltime greatest basketball coach of MSU is Babe McCarthy. Not taking anything away from Stansbury, but I think Babe was the greatest.

[shannondawg]

Horatio sure as hell spent a lot of time at the Mize, which if he was going around mouthing off about Stansbury , I don't believe that would be the case. So that really doesn't seem to add up..

Besides, when Stans left for TAM , he stopped and visited with the family in Jackson on the way to College Station.

That's about all I got to say about this situation.. But I just can't stand to see things that are said as fact, being absolutely untrue and not say something..

[Dawg61]

Horatio sure as hell spent a lot of time at the Mize, which if he was going around mouthing off about Stansbury , I don't believe that would be the case. So that really doesn't seem to add up..

Besides, when Stans left for TAM , he stopped and visited with the family in Jackson on the way to College Station.

That's about all I got to say about this situation.. But I just can't stand to see things that are said as fact, being absolutely untrue and not say something..

You really should post more often

[Coach34]

Horatio sure as hell spent a lot of time at the Mize, which if he was going around mouthing off about Stansbury , I don't believe that would be the case. So that really doesn't seem to add up..

Besides, when Stans left for TAM , he stopped and visited with the family in Jackson on the way to College Station.

That's about all I got to say about this situation.. But I just can't stand to see things that are said as fact, being absolutely untrue and not say something..

what I said is indeed fact and came from one of his teammates. Horatio can still love State and visit without caring for Stands.

[shannondawg]

He was visiting with Stans every time I saw him.

Which teammate?

[preachermatt83]

my feelings about this entire thread can be summed up simply....

[shannondawg]

Yeah but you are here n posting.

[Dawg61]