BiancoBury gonna BiancoBury

[Dawg61]

It's more difficult for an SEC basketball team to be in the top 40 in RPI in basketball than it is in baseball outside the top 4 teams. The number 5 team in the SEC will be in the top 40 in baseball but won't be in basketball. Even without losing any other games during the season except to the top 4 teams in the SEC that basketball team will not be in the top 40. Why? Because the number 6 team in the Big East, ACC, B1G, Pac12, AAC, and Big 12 will be above them plus the #2 team in the mid-majors and all the teams ranked higher in their respective leagues. Nothing can be done about that right now unless ALL the SEC teams start scheduling top 25 OOC schedules and actually win those games.

[engie]

"power conferences" are less relevant in baseball though. Cal St Fullerton and Rice come to mind. Baseball has some mid majors with great tradition. Basketball and football don't really.

Baseball has 2 or 3 elite midmajors. That's some combination of Rice, Fullerton, Irvine, Wichita St, Tulane...

Basketball had 4 or 5 prior to the last round of expansion. That's some combination of Memphis, Butler, Gonzaga, VCU, Wichita St, Temple...

[engie]

Where is your disconnect here?

It's more difficult for an SEC basketball team to be in the top 40 in RPI in basketball than it is in baseball outside the top 4 teams.

Yeah -- about 0.7% more difficult -- as already shown in this thread and the other one.

The number 5 team in the SEC will be in the top 40 in baseball but won't be in basketball.

That's because the #5 team in baseball IS one of the 40 best teams in the country, while the #5 team in baskeball has been debatable lately. RPI isn't "punishing" SEC teams. SUCKING is punishing SEC teams.

Even without losing any other games during the season except to the top 4 teams in the SEC that basketball team will not be in the top 40.

BS. RPI isn't a discriminatory formula.

Because the number 6 team in the Big East, ACC, B1G, Pac12, AAC, and Big 12 will be above them plus the #2 team in the mid-majors and all the teams ranked higher in their respective leagues.

And they will be ranked above them because they are BETTER than them.

Nothing can be done about that right now unless ALL the SEC teams start scheduling top 25 OOC schedules and actually win those games.

All that needs to happen is for the teams to improve. The rest of it, RPI and such, takes care of itself.

[Dawg61]

Nope it is much more difficult for the #5 team in the SEC in basketball to make the tournament than it is for the rest of the Power 6 conferences and the exact opposite is true in baseball. MSU has almost no control over the conferences strength in RPI. Do me a favor and add up all the SEC entries for the NCAA tournament for the last ten years in basketball and baseball and compare it to the rest of the Power6 conferences. You'll quickly see it is easier to make the NCAA tournament for an SEC baseball team than it is for an SEC basketball team.

[sandwolf]

Do me a favor and add up all the SEC entries for the NCAA tournament for the last ten years in basketball and baseball and compare it to the rest of the Power6 conferences. You'll quickly see it is easier to make the NCAA tournament for an SEC baseball team than it is for an SEC basketball team.

I would interpret that to mean that the SEC is simply better at baseball than at basketball. Its not like we have a bunch of deserving basketball teams getting left out of the tournament every year. Nor do we have a bunch of undeserving baseball teams going to the tournament every year.

[engie]

I would interpret that to mean that the SEC is simply better at baseball than at basketball. Its not like we have a bunch of deserving basketball teams getting left out of the tournament every year. Nor do we have a bunch of undeserving baseball teams going to the tournament every year.

Exactly.

Dawg61 is just disconnecting from reality per the norm...

[smootness]

Nope it is much more difficult for the #5 team in the SEC in basketball to make the tournament than it is for the rest of the Power 6 conferences and the exact opposite is true in baseball. MSU has almost no control over the conferences strength in RPI. Do me a favor and add up all the SEC entries for the NCAA tournament for the last ten years in basketball and baseball and compare it to the rest of the Power6 conferences. You'll quickly see it is easier to make the NCAA tournament for an SEC baseball team than it is for an SEC basketball team.

Because the SEC truly isn't a very good basketball league and doesn't have very many good basketball teams. That is why the #5 team in the SEC has a difficult time making the tournament - because if they were truly a definite tournament team, they would be better than the #5 team in the current SEC.

[Dawg61]

If 10 of 14 make a tournament of 64 and 4 of 14 make a tournament of 64 which tournament is more difficult to get to 16? Engie's answer "the Big East got 8". It's more difficult for MSU to make the NCAA basketball tournament than the baseball tournament. Just is. How many times Arizona and Michigan made the sweet 16 has nothing to do with it.

[smootness]

If 10 of 14 make a tournament of 64 and 4 of 14 make a tournament of 64 which tournament is more difficult to get to 16? Engie's answer "the Big East got 8". It's more difficult for MSU to make the NCAA basketball tournament than the baseball tournament. Just is. How many times Arizona and Michigan made the sweet 16 has nothing to do with it.

This is just not a logical argument. If the SEC suddenly has 8 great basketball teams next year, I can assure you they will get 8 teams into the tournament. You're taking the fact that the SEC doesn't currently have a lot of good basketball teams and using that to make the argument that the Tournament is biased against the SEC. It doesn't make sense.

Is it easier for Mississippi State to make the tournament in baseball than it is for Ohio State? It is currently, but only because we have a better program. At the beginning of the year, without looking at the teams' rosters, both teams have the same chance. If Ohio State were as good as we've been the last few years, they would own the Big 10 and would easily make the tournament. But they aren't as good. It has nothing to do with B10 vs. SEC.

How does Indiana keep making the tournament? They're a good team; it isn't harder for them because they're in the Big 10. They're better than everyone else in the Big 10, so it's fairly simple for them - just keep beating everybody in that conference (like you should b/c you're better than all of them), and you get in.

[Dawg61]

Because the SEC truly isn't a very good basketball league and doesn't have very many good basketball teams. That is why the #5 team in the SEC has a difficult time making the tournament - because if they were truly a definite tournament team, they would be better than the #5 team in the current SEC.

Not necessarily. That #5 team could only lose to 1-4 the entire season and have zero other losses the rest of the season including OOC and most likely will not get into the tournament. That's just the #5 team. Still got 6-10 getting in in baseball.

[smootness]

Not necessarily. That #5 team could only lose to 1-4 the entire season and have zero other losses the rest of the season including OOC and most likely will not get into the tournament. That's just the #5 team. Still got 6-10 getting in in baseball.

You've gotta be kidding me. Let's say they play 5 games against those 4 teams - they go 13-5 in the SEC and only lose 5 games all year, and you're telling me they're not in?

Worst-case scenario, they happen to play those 4 teams a total of 8 games. 1) They still go 10-8 in the SEC and only have 8 losses; probably going to get into the tournament no matter what.

And if they go 0-8 against those 4, there's probably a huge gap between #4 and #5. And even still, if those 4 are so good, their RPIs will all be plenty high, and those losses won't hurt as much; their RPI will still probably be enough to get in. Unless they schedule a bunch of teams with a 250 RPI in the OOC schedule, and that's on them. That has nothing to do with the SEC at that point.

You can literally say the same about any other conference. If a team is the #5 team in the ACC but happens to play the top 4 teams a total of 8 times and loses all of them, their ACC record won't look great. And if they schedule a bunch of 250-RPI teams OOC, guess what? They're not making the tournament.

[engie]

Nope it is much more difficult for the #5 team in the SEC in basketball to make the tournament than it is for the rest of the Power 6 conferences and the exact opposite is true in baseball. MSU has almost no control over the conferences strength in RPI. Do me a favor and add up all the SEC entries for the NCAA tournament for the last ten years in basketball and baseball and compare it to the rest of the Power6 conferences. You'll quickly see it is easier to make the NCAA tournament for an SEC baseball team than it is for an SEC basketball team.

You don't have a logical bone in your body.

[Dawg61]

No you're wrong. There's factors hurting the Ohio State in baseball just like there is hurting MSU in baseball. Ohio State has to DESTROY the Big Ten in baseball to get in just like MSU has to do in the SEC in basketball. But the conferences aren't terrible so forcing a team to go 25-5 in basketball is still hard as fu*k to do because our competition isn't that bad.

It's like asking Golfer A to shoot a 72 from the back tees to get in and Golfer B to shoot a 64 from the front tees to get in. It's still difficult as fu*k to shoot a 64.

[engie]

Not necessarily. That #5 team could only lose to 1-4 the entire season and have zero other losses the rest of the season including OOC and most likely will not get into the tournament. That's just the #5 team. Still got 6-10 getting in in baseball.

Stupidity on display for the world to see.

[Dawg61]

You don't have a logical bone in your body.

How many Big East teams made the Sweet 16 though?**

[engie]

No you're wrong. There's factors hurting the Ohio State in baseball just like there is hurting MSU in baseball. Ohio State has to DESTROY the Big Ten in baseball to get in just like MSU has to do in the SEC in basketball. But the conferences aren't terrible so forcing a team to go 25-5 in basketball is still hard as fu*k to do because our competition isn't that bad.

It's like asking Golfer A to shoot a 72 from the back tees to get in and Golfer B to shoot a 64 from the front tees to get in. It's still difficult as fu*k to shoot a 64.

You don't understand a damn thing about what RPI actually does do you?

Yep. It's DISCRIMINATION!!!1!1 The committee in basketball is DISCRIMINATING against deserving SEC teams!!1!1 Only made 1 championship game in the Nit in the last 8 years(a loss)? Just a big conspiracy to keep out worthy SEC teams!11!1!1

[smootness]

Our competition in basketball doesn't seem that bad because we are bad. If we were as good in basketball as we are in baseball, going 11-5 in conference wouldn't seem difficult at all. You're not forcing a team to do anything. It's all based on how good your competition is. If all the SEC teams were suddenly much better next year, we wouldn't have to go 11-5 to get in.

Your golfer analogy is insane. The actual analogy would be one golfer who hits his drives 375 and another who hits his 275. And the goal for both of them is simply to shoot a lower score than the other. Yes, it is easier for the golfer who drives it 100 yards further to win...because he's better. There is no inherent bias against the golfer who doesn't hit it as far.

Indiana went 21-3 in the Big 10 this year. Indiana was a good team, they were not a great team. They went 21-3 in the Big 10 because the Big 10 is not good. Had they been in the SEC, they probably would have been something like 16-14 in conference. Guess what? Both accomplish the same thing - either way, they're definitely in the NCAA tournament. No, they couldn't get in at 16-14 in the Big 10. But if they had gone 16-14 in the Big 10, they wouldn't be very good.

[Dawg61]

I know it's more difficult for MSU to make the basketball tournament than the baseball tournament. That part escapes you. How many Big East teams made it though? That's what matters.**

[engie]

How many Big East teams made the Sweet 16 though?**

Last 10 years
Big East - 74 teams in, 174 games played. Teams play an avg of 2.351gms
B1G - 58 teams in, 147 games played. Teams play an avg of 2.534gms
Big12 - 56 teams in, 127 games played. Teams play an avg of 2.268gms
ACC - 52 teams in, 122 games played. Teams play an avg of 2.346gms
SEC - 44 teams in, 113 games played. Teams play an avg of 2.568gms
Pac12 - 44 teams in, 103 games played. Teams play an avg of 2.341gms
A10 - 31 teams in, 57 games played. Teams play an avg of 1.84gms
Mountain West - 27 teams in, 44 games played. Teams play an avg of 1.63gms
CUsa - 16 teams in, 36 games played. Teams play an avg of 2.25gms
Horizon - 10 teams in, 27 games played. Teams play an avg of 2.7gms

The SEC is NOT a big 6 basketball league!!!1!1! Just played over double the number of tournament games as the next league in the pecking order.

What in this data shows the SEC getting screwed?

[engie]

Indiana went 21-3 in the Big 10 this year. Indiana was a good team, they were not a great team. They went 21-3 in the Big 10 because the Big 10 is not good. Had they been in the SEC, they probably would have been something like 16-14 in conference. Guess what? Both accomplish the same thing - either way, they're definitely in the NCAA tournament. No, they couldn't get in at 16-14 in the Big 10. But if they had gone 16-14 in the Big 10, they wouldn't be very good.

And in both cases, their RPI would have been nearly the same. Because that's the goal of RPI -- to determine and rank how good a team actually is, regardless of the competition they face.