Big Picture for MSU Football

[archdog]

Agree with everything you have said.

Special teams is a 100% loss yardage and opportunity for us. We never try to get a return. We put a RB to return? Why would we do that? You telling me one of our freshman receivers can?t return kicks? Is he the only one that can catch a kickoff? He?ll, even when he catches it outside the endzone he takes a faircatch. To me that is indicative of our entire team. I like our punter, but he isn?t getting the height others in the SEC gets.

[Quaoarsking]

What I am saying is that its not my opinion on this- people with real money arent considering firing Lebby and see the progress we have made. He will only be in trouble next year if he doesnt get in a bowl game- as he should be in Y3

And here we go again! You talk to a Lebby defender long enough and it turns out that they all basically agree with me. Lebby (assuming we lose the Egg Bowl) is on the hot seat as of the start of 2026 and will likely be fired if he doesn't make a bowl.

[archdog]

I mean, I want Arnett back as a DC. Dude was good.

[Maroon Glasses]

I mean, I want Arnett back as a DC. Dude was good.

Yeah I can be happy with that hire too.

[Todd4State]

I mean, I want Arnett back as a DC. Dude was good.

Yeah I can be happy with that hire too.

WTF? He's a BIG reason for the mess we're in especially on defense among other things.

And he wasn't that good anyway.

[Maroon Glasses]

WTF? He's a BIG reason for the mess we're in especially on defense among other things.

And he wasn't that good anyway.

I thought he was a good DC. Just my opinion. If I remember correctly we were top 5 in total defense in '20 and '21. When he came in '19 we were bottom of the league.

Edited to add: With being able to completely flip a roster in 1-2 years time and guys getting for the portal, I dont understand how coaches ir assistants that have been gone for 2+ years are still getting blamed for what's happening now. I couldn't give you an exact number but I'm sure most guys if not all that Arnett recruited are probably gone. I even see people still blaming Leach and that's crazy to me.

[Coursesuper]

Thats not even close to being true. I just thought we would wait till the end of the year to fire him. I enjoyed Arnett way more than watching the Airbone week after week. We could have run the wishbone and I would have enjoyed it more. I love Metallica- hate Nothing Else Matters. 5FDP is my favorite modern band- cant stand Death Punch Therapy

What I am saying is that its not my opinion on this- people with real money arent considering firing Lebby and see the progress we have made. He will only be in trouble next year if he doesnt get in a bowl game- as he should be in Y3

What is really happening doesn't matter with that one. He has a real hate for the guy and has from the jump.

[StarkVegasSteve]

I thought he was a good DC. Just my opinion. If I remember correctly we were top 5 in total defense in '20 and '21. When he came in '19 we were bottom of the league.

Edited to add: With being able to completely flip a roster in 1-2 years time and guys getting for the portal, I dont understand how coaches ir assistants that have been gone for 2+ years are still getting blamed for what's happening now. I couldn't give you an exact number but I'm sure most guys if not all that Arnett recruited are probably gone. I even see people still blaming Leach and that's crazy to me.

We were never top 5. We were top 50 but nowhere near top 5. Also, Arnett is never coming back here. He lost the locker room and lost the respect of a lot of a lot of former players, members of the athletic dept, and a few really prominent boosters with how he handled everything.

I still remember the quote he gave after we lost to Kentucky 31-3. “Two more wins and I KEEP MY JOB”. That is not a summation of a quote or adding words. That was his exact quote and Bookie Watson had to be restrained from him.

[BrunswickDawg]

We were never top 5. We were top 50 but nowhere near top 5. Also, Arnett is never coming back here. He lost the locker room and lost the respect of a lot of a lot of former players, members of the athletic dept, and a few really prominent boosters with how he handled everything.

I still remember the quote he gave after we lost to Kentucky 31-3. “Two more wins and I KEEP MY JOB”. That is not a summation of a quote or adding words. That was his exact quote and Bookie Watson had to be restrained from him.

I think he was meaning top 5 SEC not national.
We were #11 in Total D in the SEC in '19 - then went 5,5,5,6 under Arnett (including his HC stint).
HOWEVER - where the rubber meets the road is Scoring D. In '19 we were #12 (after being #1 in '18). Arnett put us 6, 9, 7, 10.

I'd put him somewhere above Chris Wilson and Geoff Collins. But below Manny and Shoop, and possibly Grantham.

[msstate7]

That last statement is 100% the truth. The big money people (McKinnis, Howard, Rula, Seal, Clark, Cleveland, etc) are not even remotely considering pulling the plug. I think they will push for staff changes, but overall changes in the head chair are not happening.

Pushing for staff changes is the beginning of the end. When this starts, if always ends in a firing, usually soon.

[StarkVegasSteve]

I think he was meaning top 5 SEC not national.
We were #11 in Total D in the SEC in '19 - then went 5,5,5,6 under Arnett (including his HC stint).
HOWEVER - where the rubber meets the road is Scoring D. In '19 we were #12 (after being #1 in '18). Arnett put us 6, 9, 7, 10.

I'd put him somewhere above Chris Wilson and Geoff Collins. But below Manny and Shoop, and possibly Grantham.

In the D coordinator hierarchy I would have him below Manny 1, Manny 2, Grantham, and Collins.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Pushing for staff changes is the beginning of the end. When this starts, if always ends in a firing, usually soon.

No big boosters do it at every program. The big time guys have meetings with the AD about what went right, what went wrong, what they liked, what they may change, etc.

OM boosters pushed for a staff change in 22 to get Pete Golding. Our boosters pushed for staff changes in 09,12, and 16 under Mullen. Never in any of those situations was a firing imminent. Funny enough, they did not push for staff changes after 19. I think you are reading into this as the boosters were going to barge into the Bryan Building and start demanding we change the staff like some of our fans do on Twitter. These are not over emotional people. They understand the process and understand that their voices will be heard. They do not have to fire off 855 angry tweets, message board posts, and emails about how they are pulling their funding after every loss.

[HailState2008]

All that tells me is that all the dooming is overblown, and with a competent coach we'll still be able to compete. Florida and Texas spent way more money than us, and the vast majority of FBS coaches would have beaten both if they'd coached us this year.

I think Lebby has made some bad decisions this year but to say vast majority of of FBS coaches would have beaten those team is absolutely dumb.

[HailState2008]

This doesn?t fit Todd4State?s narrative so it?s garbage.

[Quaoarsking]

Pushing for staff changes is the beginning of the end. When this starts, if always ends in a firing, usually soon.

We shouldn't require him to make any staff changes. It's his job, and he can do it however he wants.

Despite all the bickering, we are all pretty much on the same page: Lebby should and will be fired if he has a 3rd straight losing season next year. He knows that, and he can approach that problem in whatever way he thinks is best.

[msstate7]

We shouldn't require him to make any staff changes. It's his job, and he can do it however he wants.

Despite all the bickering, we are all pretty much on the same page: Lebby should and will be fired if he has a 3rd straight losing season next year. He knows that, and he can approach that problem in whatever way he thinks is best.

This is my way of thinking. If he's coming back next season, let em do it his way. Help him with NIL and staff money as much as possible, but let him decide what he needs. If you don't trust him to figure it, you don't trust him, so move on now.

[StarkVegasSteve]

We shouldn't require him to make any staff changes. It's his job, and he can do it however he wants.

Despite all the bickering, we are all pretty much on the same page: Lebby should and will be fired if he has a 3rd straight losing season next year. He knows that, and he can approach that problem in whatever way he thinks is best.

This we agree on. I actually don't know anyone that disagrees with this point. He also knows he needs to make staff changes. I still have a pretty big gripe with him that he didn't can Turner and Bell last year but I think he thought bringing in Rhoads and Dancey would alleviate them a bit. I think it has for Bell, but he still needs to go. Turner just isn't made for today's game. A lot of coaches aren't. He can't recruit in today's game and if he can't recruit, his coaching looks bad too.

[StarkVegasSteve]

This is my way of thinking. If he's coming back next season, let em do it his way. Help him with NIL and staff money as much as possible, but let him decide what he needs. If you don't trust him to figure it, you don't trust him, so move on now.

This is more of what I meant by boosters giving their input. How it was during the Mullen days and I know for a fact it's how we got Grantham, "Hey Dan, we've got you some funding to go get an elite DC."

[msstate7]

This is more of what I meant by boosters giving their input. How it was during the Mullen days and I know for a fact it's how we got Grantham, "Hey Dan, we've got you some funding to go get an elite DC."

That's different than "fire so and so". I will never agree with dictating choices for you coach

[StarkVegasSteve]

That's different than "fire so and so". I will never agree with dictating choices for you coach

Agreed. You are not paying a coach and then dictating who he has to hire, or you shouldn’t at least.