I just need to know...

[CadaverDawg]

Who found the leftovers of my bottle of crazy pills I lost after I wanted Mullen fired, and why did y'all give them to msstate7 and Quars?

Love you boys, but yall have lost your minds on this Fire Lebby thing.

Take a deep breath and realize a few things....

1. Nobody is "ok" with 4-8/0-8 if it happens. I don't think it will happen, but if it does nobody will be "ok" with it.

2. There is more to evaluating a coach AT MISSISSIPPI STATE than JUST wins and losses. Am I saying "ReCoRd DoNt MaTtEr"? No, so please don't start that crap.
I'm saying use your eyes and see the trajectory. Obviously it has to eventually turn in to wins, but the improvement is as clear as day unless you're looking at our record and not watching the actual games.

3. Nobody is wanting to keep him due to being scared of the carousel. Is that definitely an additional reason not to do something stupid like firing him right now? Absolutely. But it is nowhere near THE reason anybody doesn't want to fire him.

4. This is essentially year 1 for Lebby. And despite the hurt and heartbreak this team is causing, he continues to get their max effort against SUPERIOR TALENT. Yes, far superior talent. That's the one thing you guys gloss over when you say "he had Texas and Florida and Tennessee beat, BUT....." So you're telling us our current coach had 3 teams that are far more talented than us Beat, and now you're going to tell me why we should fire him in your next sentence bc he failed to close it out in his second full year as a head coach in the toughest league in sports? Reread that.

5. The second to last reason you guys should chill is because everyone (including me) will be right there with you if we see similar results and a total lack of growth in decision making and closing out games next year. We have to see continuous growth, and next year that growth will be judged far more on the win column.

6. And the last reason to chill is that unless he totally loses the team down the stretch, it's a waste of time to make polls and try to speak a firing into existence, because it ain't happening. Nor should it.

Lebby closes that Texas game out and he may be in the running for Coach of the year, yet you want him fired bc he didn't? Can't be that big of a swing in a close result against more talented teams by what's basically a first year coach.

Take a deep breath and don't make yourself look like dumb Cadaver did several years ago. I remember wasting my life away on this board trying to persuade a bunch of dudes that weren't going to be persuaded. Much like I'm trying to do you two right now...so maybe I haven't learned as much as I think haha.

Go Dawgs, Beat Hawgs

[Todd4State]

Well said. I think when people take a step back for a minute they'll see things the way you and I do.

[Quaoarsking]

I have said enough on this subject over the last couple weeks, so I'll keep this brief: (Edit - did not really keep it brief)

1. I really, really want Lebby to succeed here. Imagine a world where he beats Arkansas, the game management stuff starts clicking for him, we upset Ole Miss, Kiffin leaves, and then the in-state pendulum swings back to us for the rest of the decade. I think I've been pretty clear that I would only call for Lebby's firing if we finish 0-8 in the SEC, and I would love for the question to become moot on Saturday.

2. I'm just not that impressed that we "kept it close" with Florida and Texas. Of course we did. Every P4 team either team has faced this year has done so too (you could argue on Oklahoma by the end of it), including juggernauts like Kentucky and G5 South Florida. Accumulating talent doesn't always translate to wins, especially in the NIL era, when these thrown-together rosters sometimes just don't gel. On top of that, it was already leaked that Napier was out before we played, so Florida had nothing to play for, and Arch has been struggling all year.

Throw in the fact that Lebby had very questionable coaching in both games - remember the series with KT up the middle 3 times and then Shapen up the middle on 4th, we left a lot of times (probably a couple of minutes) on the play clock in the 4th against Texas just by snapping it needlessly soon. And then failing to even attempt a field goal at the end of the 4th quarter in either game. A lot of Lebby supporters are even acknowledging that he's struggling with in-game management, and I think in the modern era, in-game management is the #1 most important quality a coach can have over recruitment and development. We've got to take every opportunity to win we can, because in the NIL era a lot of games are just going to be out of reach for us no matter what we do. There were already questions about his game management last year, and now he's blowing golden opportunities for signature wins. I really hope he figures it out, but for most people, this skill is just a "you're born with it or you're not" kind of thing.

3. I reject the idea that last year doesn't count. It's become the party line that we were so outrageously untalented that getting blown out by Toledo was unavoidable, and all that does is remind me of what Croom himself and his supporters said about Maine. I know we were bad, but we weren't "get blown out by Toledo" bad. In fact, our FPI rating in 2024 was actually better than every single team in the MAC, so there's just no defending that game.

It's also frustrating that Lebby supporters seem to be trying to have it both ways when it comes to whether 2024 counts. If this is year 1 for Lebby because the roster was so fundamentally talented that any coach would have gone 2-10 and nothing that happened can be held against Lebby, then why does Lebby get all this credit for improving now that NIL has funded more talent for him? If last year was impossible, then how could he have done anything but improve?

4. I'm not sure about #5. I'm been very surprised by how adamant and vitriolic many (not you, and not everyone) of the Lebby supporters here and on other boards are, to the level we didn't see for Mullen, Leach, Moorhead, Lemonis, etc. What is it about Jeff Lebby that makes his supporters this angry and offended, with all the personal insults and name-calling at people who just want to see some wins after 2+ years of losing and counting? You have to wonder if there are reasons outside of football for it for some of our fans.

5. Go Dawgs. Beat Hawgs.

[Bdawg]

Think we all agree with you that Lebby has made some in game screw ups.

I disagree that game management is more important than recruiting because you have to recruit your whole damn team each year plus try to add to it and hope the next team doesn?t come along and out bid you(like Arnold).

If the administration thinks he had a year zero, then he had a year zero. I tend to agree with them because our roster was so bad we couldn?t even practice against each other or even have a half decent scout team.

I agree with you on Toledo. Just like it was inexcusable with Mullen against South Alabama, but it happened.

Lebby gets credit for improving the team because he is the one who identifies the talent, not the donors. The NIL just gives Lebby the necessary funds to get who he wants. I feel we upgraded the talent in a few areas, so he gets credit for it.

Pretty sure I havent been ugly to you in the discussion and would like to keep it that way. We all are still Dawgs. Beat the Hawgs!

[StarkVegasSteve]

I think a lot of times, myself included, try to make stuff too cut and dried. There is a lot of grey in this. You cannot say we are miles better this year and in the same breathe say that we still suck if you are going to be cut and dried and absolute on things. Are we miles better this year? My god yes. Have we sucked in late game situations and seem to invent new ways to lose each and every week? Yes. But in those two wildly different statements there is a lot of minutia. For example, Saturday was the first time we have held a two score lead on a conference opponent since 2022. Let that sink in. That tells you how bad it had gotten. The fact that on Saturday FOR THE FIRST TIME IN THREE YEARS we led by more than 7 points against someone. That is almost an unbelievable stat.

[msstate7]

I think a lot of times, myself included, try to make stuff too cut and dried. There is a lot of grey in this. You cannot say we are miles better this year and in the same breathe say that we still suck if you are going to be cut and dried and absolute on things. Are we miles better this year? My god yes. Have we sucked in late game situations and seem to invent new ways to lose each and every week? Yes. But in those two wildly different statements there is a lot of minutia. For example, Saturday was the first time we have held a two score lead on a conference opponent since 2022. Let that sink in. That tells you how bad it had gotten. The fact that on Saturday FOR THE FIRST TIME IN THREE YEARS we led by more than 7 points against someone. That is almost an unbelievable stat.

Arnett won at Arkansas before being fired. Let's see how Lebby does vs an interim

[msstate7]

And all I'm calling for to keep Lebby is win one game. That's not a hurdle... it's a step.

[TrapGame]

Arnett won at Arkansas before being fired. Let's see how Lebby does vs an interim

But that interim is Bobby Petrino the former head coach of Arkansas and one of the premiere play callers in college football.

He is not coaching against John L. Smith or Chad Morris.

[Coursesuper]

Arnett won at Arkansas before being fired. Let's see how Lebby does vs an interim

Apples and Watermelons analogy.

[StarkVegasSteve]

But that interim is Bobby Petrino the former head coach of Arkansas and one of the premiere play callers in college football.

He is not coaching against John L. Smith or Chad Morris.

He is not but his offense, which has hung some numbers on some people(scored the most anyone has on Texas this year), is facing a defense that may quite possibly be worse than the one we fielded last year.

This is a game we should, and depending on what your line of thinking is, have to win.

[gtowndawg]

If he goes 0-8 (0-16) he will get fired. Let's see if he can win one, ball's in his court.

[Goldendawg]

Davis, Shira, Felker, Croom, Moorhead, Arnett, and Lebby to be determined. See a pattern here? We get what we pay for in my MSU lifetime fandom. Exceptions are Tyler (except for probation and 18 forfeits which should be challenged) and Mullen. Now, all this being said, Beat Arkansas and get to 6-6 and turn this around. We are not "Horseshoes and Hand Grenades University", and that is just not acceptable. Hail State!

[TrapGame]

He is not but his offense, which has hung some numbers on some people(scored the most anyone has on Texas this year), is facing a defense that may quite possibly be worse than the one we fielded last year.

This is a game we should, and depending on what your line of thinking is, have to win.

We have a defense that can contain Green. We have an offense that can score on their defense. With Fluff back I expect to win this game by two touchdowns. If we do not then I may be with Q, 7 and gtown.

If he goes 0-8 (0-16) he will get fired. Let's see if he can win one, ball's in his court.

The problem with that is we are not getting a better coach in this cycle of coaching turnover. Jake went over the list of all the schools looking for coaches right now and it is long. There will be other schools added in the next month. We could seriously wind up with another Arnett situation if we pull the trigger too early.

Hiring a new coach is not going to miraculously make season sells go through the roof and fill Davis Wade next year or even guarantee us a winning season. There is section of fans that checked out years ago and they probably are not coming back no matter who the coach happens to be.

[msstate7]

But that interim is Bobby Petrino the former head coach of Arkansas and one of the premiere play callers in college football.

He is not coaching against John L. Smith or Chad Morris.

Ark is 121 of 136 in scoring D nationally.
Ark is 123 of 136 in total D nationally.

We have an offensive HC that's expected to get one of his best off players back this week. If Lebby is the guy being pumped around here, he should be able to get this one.

Since 2020, Bobby is 18-17 as a HC. This isn't prime Petrino anymore

[msstate7]

Pretty sad that some here are ready to justify a loss Saturday already while at the same time selling we have the right guy.

[TrapGame]

Ark is 121 of 136 in scoring D nationally.
Ark is 123 of 136 in total D nationally.

We have an offensive HC that's expected to get one of his best off players back this week. If Lebby is the guy being pumped around here, he should be able to get this one.

Since 2020, Bobby is 18-17 as a HC. This isn't prime Petrino anymore

I agree. We should win this game. That stadium will be less than half full too.

[Quaoarsking]

The problem with that is we are not getting a better coach in this cycle of coaching turnover. Jake went over the list of all the schools looking for coaches right now and it is long. There will be other schools added in the next month. We could seriously wind up with another Arnett situation if we pull the trigger too early.

There's no guarantee it will be any easier in the coaching carousel next year. There are dozens of successful G5/FCS head coaches we could hire that the elites aren't going to consider.

[Homedawg]

If he goes 0-8 (0-16) he will get fired. Let's see if he can win one, ball's in his court.

No he won't

[gtowndawg]

The problem with that is we are not getting a better coach in this cycle of coaching turnover. Jake went over the list of all the schools looking for coaches right now and it is long. There will be other schools added in the next month.

We need to navigate that very carefully for sure. We would need an Elon esque approach to this one...we can't just go out an hire a work connection from a previous employer. I don't think it's crazy to say it would be the most important hire we've ever made in our sports history considering the stakes. Lebby has yet another good opportunity for a win this Saturday. Will he get the job done? I don't know, we will see. Like many, I've taken my fan hat off now and I'm simply looking as a curious bystander to see if he can figure it out.

[MoreCowbell]

I honestly think people being loud about wanting him fired now are hurting the program. It?s probably why Lebby might want out. It is making the fanbase look dumb and unable to understand the nuances of the situation.