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Thread: Should Kentucky hold on to win the SEC title these 2 weekends

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by MBDawg601 View Post
    If we are nit-picking stats - how many hot dog eating contests have they won since 1975?

    But really.....

    Kentucky's resume:

    NCAA Regional Champions:
    2017, 2023

    NCAA Tournament Appearances:
    1988, 1993, 2006, 2008, 2012, 2014, 2017, 2023

    Regular Season Conference Champions:
    2006


    STATE:

    NCAA TOURNAMENT CHAMPIONS:
    2021

    COLLEGE WORLD SERIES RUNNER-UP:
    2013

    COLLEGE WORLD SERIES APPEARANCES:
    1971, 1979, 1981, 1985, 1990, 1997, 1998, 2007, 2013, 2018, 2019, 2021

    NCAA REGIONAL CHAMPIONS:
    1979, 1981, 1985, 1990, 1997, 1998, 2000, 2001, 2007, 2011, 2013, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2021

    NCAA TOURNAMENT APPEARANCES:
    1949, 1953, 1965, 1966, 1970, 1971, 1978, 1979, 1981, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1987, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2021

    CONFERENCE TOURNAMENT CHAMPIONS:
    1979, 1985, 1987, 1990, 2001, 2005, 2012

    REGULAR SEASON CONFERENCE CHAMPIONS:
    1909, 1911, 1918, 1921, 1922, 1924, 1948, 1949, 1965, 1966, 1970, 1971, 1979, 1985, 1987, 1989, 2016


    Let's not get carried away. Great that they can possibly win another regular season title, but they need to win when it matters.
    We did not win the reg season in 87, nor 85 lsu I can't speak for prior to that. 79 I know we did. Not sure where you got your info but it's incorrect. On those two for sure.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Homedawg View Post
    We did not win the reg season in 87, nor 85 lsu I can't speak for prior to that. 79 I know we did. Not sure where you got your info but it's incorrect. On those two for sure.
    Wikipedia, not always 100% but mostly correct. I knew our resume was 10x Kentucky's is all I firmly knew and cared about.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Dawgface's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach34 View Post

    Gotta love State fans.
    Not all State fans.

  4. #24
    Senior Member DownwardDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Commercecomet24 View Post
    The notoriety State baseball has is from post season successes, i.e. CWS apperances, regional championships, etc.. Our regular season sec titles and success pale in comparison to our post season success. Baseball is different. Winning SEC titles in football is awesome. Winning SEC titles in baseball, while awesome, is not the same as football. Post season is where a baseball coach makes his mark. Sure you have to have regular season success to get to post season but finishing in the top 3 or 4 doesnt mean anything if you can't have success in the tournament. Heck om was the last team taken 2 years ago and won it all. Would that ever happen in football or basketball? Nope, heck in basketball if a 16 or 15 seed beats a 1 or 2 seed it's considered a historic event.

    ETA and you're right the goal post for Lemonis this year has been ever moving.
    This is correct.

  5. #25
    Senior Member KOdawg1's Avatar
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    Doing all this for like 2-3 posters is... something

  6. #26
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    Between 1977 and 1987, the SEC officially considered the SEC Tournament champion to be the SEC's regular season/overall champion. So we claim the 1985 and 1987 championships, and no one else does, and the SEC agrees.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Coach34's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KOdawg1 View Post
    Doing all this for like 2-3 posters is... something
    You serious Clark?

    This is about at least 50 posters on this board only- of which you are indeed a member. You forget about the thousands of readers we have come here each day. Then you have to factor in the "C34 said...." threads that pop up here and there. It's wayyyyyyy beyond a couple of posters
    Walk like the King or walk like you don't care who the King is

  8. #28
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    Leave it to our own fans to try to downplay and belittle our last few decades of success. I looked up the final Baseball America rankings from 1990 through 2023
    • I chose 1990 to stay consistent with the OP.
    • I chose Baseball America because they've had a final ranking each year, and they don't go exactly by the postseason. Postseason matters in the final poll, but so does regular season. If you make Omaha, you'll be high, but not automatically in the top 8.


    Here's the top 25 counting each final poll as a ballot (so being #1 gets you 25 points, on down):

    495 1 LSU
    489 2 Florida State
    431 3 Stanford
    415 4 Cal State Fullerton
    405 5 Texas
    396 6 Miami
    353 7 Florida
    283 8 Clemson
    275 9 Rice
    274 10 Arizona State
    267 11 South Carolina
    241 12 North Carolina
    233 13 Texas A&M
    229 14 USC
    225 15 Arkansas
    223 16 Mississippi State
    222 17 Oklahoma State
    213 18 Vanderbilt
    209 19 Virginia
    193 20 Oregon State
    192 21 Georgia Tech
    185 22 TCU
    179 23 Oklahoma
    172 24 Wichita State
    167 25 Louisville

    So we're #16 and #6 in the SEC. That's very solid, but not really elite.

    But it greatly varies on where you set the boundaries.
    • If you start it in 1985 rather than 1990, we're #13.
    • If you start it in 1999 (to line up with the 64-team NCAA bracket), we're #16
    • If you start it in 2013 (so the last 10 seasons) we're #7 (despite getting 0 points the last 2 years)
    • From 2013 through 2021 we were #2, only behind Vanderbilt.


    The verdict is that we are a very good program historically, but not really elite until the 2010s thanks to Cohen and his successors. Hopefully the last 2 years are a blip and we start climbing up the leaderboards again this season.

  9. #29
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    For most, regarding football, the regular season and an SEC championship is a big deal. In basketball and baseball, the regular season doesn't have near the importance as the post season means everything.

  10. #30
    Senior Member Coach34's Avatar
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    That’s great stuff Q- and it kind of makes the point I made to another one of our great posters here:

    State is 100% in the top 20 of college baseball for its history. But college baseball has changed and basically the Top 40 teams in college baseball has a chance to win the title.

    In college football? It’s about the Top 5 or 6 each season
    Walk like the King or walk like you don't care who the King is

  11. #31
    Senior Member Commercecomet24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quaoarsking View Post
    Leave it to our own fans to try to downplay and belittle our last few decades of success. I looked up the final Baseball America rankings from 1990 through 2023
    • I chose 1990 to stay consistent with the OP.
    • I chose Baseball America because they've had a final ranking each year, and they don't go exactly by the postseason. Postseason matters in the final poll, but so does regular season. If you make Omaha, you'll be high, but not automatically in the top 8.


    Here's the top 25 counting each final poll as a ballot (so being #1 gets you 25 points, on down):

    495 1 LSU
    489 2 Florida State
    431 3 Stanford
    415 4 Cal State Fullerton
    405 5 Texas
    396 6 Miami
    353 7 Florida
    283 8 Clemson
    275 9 Rice
    274 10 Arizona State
    267 11 South Carolina
    241 12 North Carolina
    233 13 Texas A&M
    229 14 USC
    225 15 Arkansas
    223 16 Mississippi State
    222 17 Oklahoma State
    213 18 Vanderbilt
    209 19 Virginia
    193 20 Oregon State
    192 21 Georgia Tech
    185 22 TCU
    179 23 Oklahoma
    172 24 Wichita State
    167 25 Louisville

    So we're #16 and #6 in the SEC. That's very solid, but not really elite.

    But it greatly varies on where you set the boundaries.
    • If you start it in 1985 rather than 1990, we're #13.
    • If you start it in 1999 (to line up with the 64-team NCAA bracket), we're #16
    • If you start it in 2013 (so the last 10 seasons) we're #7 (despite getting 0 points the last 2 years)
    • From 2013 through 2021 we were #2, only behind Vanderbilt.


    The verdict is that we are a very good program historically, but not really elite until the 2010s thanks to Cohen and his successors. Hopefully the last 2 years are a blip and we start climbing up the leaderboards again this season.
    Good post and thanks for doing that digging.

  12. #32
    Senior Member Todd4State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach34 View Post
    That’s great stuff Q- and it kind of makes the point I made to another one of our great posters here:

    State is 100% in the top 20 of college baseball for its history. But college baseball has changed and basically the Top 40 teams in college baseball has a chance to win the title.

    In college football? It’s about the Top 5 or 6 each season
    If you are in the top 20 out of 300 something baseball teams across multiple eras- I would say that's pretty elite.

  13. #33
    Senior Member Todd4State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quaoarsking View Post
    Leave it to our own fans to try to downplay and belittle our last few decades of success. I looked up the final Baseball America rankings from 1990 through 2023
    • I chose 1990 to stay consistent with the OP.
    • I chose Baseball America because they've had a final ranking each year, and they don't go exactly by the postseason. Postseason matters in the final poll, but so does regular season. If you make Omaha, you'll be high, but not automatically in the top 8.


    Here's the top 25 counting each final poll as a ballot (so being #1 gets you 25 points, on down):

    495 1 LSU
    489 2 Florida State
    431 3 Stanford
    415 4 Cal State Fullerton
    405 5 Texas
    396 6 Miami
    353 7 Florida
    283 8 Clemson
    275 9 Rice
    274 10 Arizona State
    267 11 South Carolina
    241 12 North Carolina
    233 13 Texas A&M
    229 14 USC
    225 15 Arkansas
    223 16 Mississippi State
    222 17 Oklahoma State
    213 18 Vanderbilt
    209 19 Virginia
    193 20 Oregon State
    192 21 Georgia Tech
    185 22 TCU
    179 23 Oklahoma
    172 24 Wichita State
    167 25 Louisville

    So we're #16 and #6 in the SEC. That's very solid, but not really elite.

    But it greatly varies on where you set the boundaries.
    • If you start it in 1985 rather than 1990, we're #13.
    • If you start it in 1999 (to line up with the 64-team NCAA bracket), we're #16
    • If you start it in 2013 (so the last 10 seasons) we're #7 (despite getting 0 points the last 2 years)
    • From 2013 through 2021 we were #2, only behind Vanderbilt.


    The verdict is that we are a very good program historically, but not really elite until the 2010s thanks to Cohen and his successors. Hopefully the last 2 years are a blip and we start climbing up the leaderboards again this season.
    College baseball in the South was very different than it is now prior to 1977. We had some teams that won the SEC in the 40's and 60's that didn't go to regionals and in the late 60's we couldn't play some of our upperclass players because of rules- I think we had players that were married or something the NCAA didn't like.

    For the South region we've been elite almost since our program began. It's just didn't go national until the 1980's. Same for LSU. And then the other programs followed behind.

  14. #34
    Senior Member KOdawg1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach34 View Post
    You serious Clark?

    This is about at least 50 posters on this board only- of which you are indeed a member. You forget about the thousands of readers we have come here each day. Then you have to factor in the "C34 said...." threads that pop up here and there. It's wayyyyyyy beyond a couple of posters
    I've never once used the words "state standard". Like ever

  15. #35
    Senior Member MoreCowbell's Avatar
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    I agree with a lot of 34s sports takes they can be insightful. Then he will start a thread like this.

    It is like the small section of his brain that controls impulses has Tourettes
    Last edited by MoreCowbell; 05-10-2024 at 06:59 AM.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach34 View Post
    That would mean since 1990:

    Kentucky 2 SEC Season titles

    State 1

    #StateStandard
    Is SEC Titles the pinnacle of baseball, or is it CWS , and super regional appearances?
    If CWS , then I think we are #11 or so, all time in NCAA appearances, and knocking on the door to become a top 10.

    That is not middle of the pack.

  17. #37
    Senior Member basedog's Avatar
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    We are a Baseball School, I could care less about whether we are elite or not, I know we have a good tradition, and it seems to be growing. Not sure why some try to downplay our program.

  18. #38
    Senior Member BrunswickDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Santiago View Post
    Is SEC Titles the pinnacle of baseball, or is it CWS , and super regional appearances?
    If CWS , then I think we are #11 or so, all time in NCAA appearances, and knocking on the door to become a top 10.

    That is not middle of the pack.
    We are tied for #11 with 12 appearances.
    By coach:
    Gregory: 1
    Polk I: 5
    Mac: 1
    Polk II: 1
    Cohen: 1
    Henderson: 1
    Lemonis: 2

    I think the difficulty of measuring a "standard" or who is "elite" is that so much about the game has changed over the 50+ year period of MSU being on the national scene. The power has shifted from west to southeast, the SEC has focused on the game and facilities, the number of teams capable of winning the CWS has expanded tremendously, MLB has changed the draft multiple times effecting roster make up, and we can watch almost every game played from home.

    If we are an elite program, then you have to create a standard based on CWS appearances. We have averaged a trip to Omaha once every 4-5 years since '71. So is Omaha once every 4-5 years the standard?

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg View Post
    We are tied for #11 with 12 appearances.
    By coach:
    Gregory: 1
    Polk I: 5
    Mac: 1
    Polk II: 1
    Cohen: 1
    Henderson: 1
    Lemonis: 2

    I think the difficulty of measuring a "standard" or who is "elite" is that so much about the game has changed over the 50+ year period of MSU being on the national scene. The power has shifted from west to southeast, the SEC has focused on the game and facilities, the number of teams capable of winning the CWS has expanded tremendously, MLB has changed the draft multiple times effecting roster make up, and we can watch almost every game played from home.

    If we are an elite program, then you have to create a standard based on CWS appearances. We have averaged a trip to Omaha once every 4-5 years since '71. So is Omaha once every 4-5 years the standard?

    The thing is, that some on the board say we cannot just use our past 15 years for comparison because that is not normal for us.
    Then we look at the past 40-50 years and we are #11, and moving up on the list of CWS appearances.

    It just seems some are trying way to hard here to say MSU is basically less than schools like Kentucky, and that we cannot count the past 12-15 years , unless we count the past 25 years(Polk 2) to bring our average down.

    I guess a couple posters just start the threads for generating clicks here mostly.
    Last edited by Santiago; 05-10-2024 at 08:13 AM.

  20. #40
    Senior Member basedog's Avatar
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    I'm not sure what standard means or at least I don't care if fans say it or not. I care about winning, bottom line, we have a very good baseball program and a very proud program. So what if times have changed, just keep winning and the fact of the matter it's mostly about who is in charge to keep it going. In my mind the goal is to make it to Omaha, it ain't gonna happen every year and I'm ok with this. I don't like to see things that happened the last two years, but I am enjoying the end of this year. Nothing wrong with getting on a coach, ask the haters about Leach who I wasn't crazy about but I didn't constantly bash him either. Lemonis has it going on right now, I'm glad, I may not be a big fan but I do care about Msu, that is my standard! LOL

    Man, I need to take a break from ED, it is a message board and opinions matter to get folks to participate.

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