Ben Howland (SEC Record) - 47-52 in 6 years

[Dawsonmsu]

What gives?

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

1) Ray left him nothing, year 5 on is fair but not the first year

2) We have no history, facilities, or fan support.

3) In light of that, being mediocre isn't really fireable. It's just not.

Now you and I can go "I don't care to follow a .500 basketball team, so I'd rather take the chance on a new coach and maybe we can be good enough for me to care" but that's not how Cohen has to look at it. Howland is mediocre, the culture is fine, the talent isn't bad. Let him coach 2 more years, retire, and then we'll be a much much more attractive place to coach vs if we fire a proven, well respected .500 in the SEC coach

[PGHBulldogBG]

Call me crazy but as much as I fully believe Ray was a bad hire, I truly believe if you gave him this talent level the record would be the same if not better

[Dawgology]

1) Ray left him nothing, year 5 on is fair but not the first year

2) We have no history, facilities, or fan support.

3) In light of that, being mediocre isn't really fireable. It's just not.

Now you and I can go "I don't care to follow a .500 basketball team, so I'd rather take the chance on a new coach and maybe we can be good enough for me to care" but that's not how Cohen has to look at it. Howland is mediocre, the culture is fine, the talent isn't bad. Let him coach 2 more years, retire, and then we'll be a much much more attractive place to coach vs if we fire a proven, well respected .500 in the SEC coach

A good coach creates fan support which will lead to better facilities and a history of winning. Until we have that first thing we will never have the others.

[BeardoMSU]

Call me crazy but...

Oh lordy...

[BeardoMSU]

1) Ray left him nothing, year 5 on is fair but not the first year

2) We have no history, facilities, or fan support.

3) In light of that, being mediocre isn't really fireable. It's just not.

Now you and I can go "I don't care to follow a .500 basketball team, so I'd rather take the chance on a new coach and maybe we can be good enough for me to care" but that's not how Cohen has to look at it. Howland is mediocre, the culture is fine, the talent isn't bad. Let him coach 2 more years, retire, and then we'll be a much much more attractive place to coach vs if we fire a proven, well respected .500 in the SEC coach

Truth hurts, but it's the truth.

[Dawgcap]

So give me a number last 3 years.

[StateDawg44]

1) Ray left him nothing, year 5 on is fair but not the first year

2) We have no history, facilities, or fan support.

3) In light of that, being mediocre isn't really fireable. It's just not.

Now you and I can go "I don't care to follow a .500 basketball team, so I'd rather take the chance on a new coach and maybe we can be good enough for me to care" but that's not how Cohen has to look at it. Howland is mediocre, the culture is fine, the talent isn't bad. Let him coach 2 more years, retire, and then we'll be a much much more attractive place to coach vs if we fire a proven, well respected .500 in the SEC coach

1. That's fair.

2. So you think that if we were consistently doing good and could actually pull out some major wins we still wouldn't have any fan support? Explain the years that we were exciting to watch when the Hump was packed.

Instead, we drop some that should be W's, and may squeeze out one we shouldn't once or twice a year. And the reason for the random W's is questionable.

3. So we should just settle for the same as the previous 4-5 years and not make a change so that Howland can coast to retirement from MSU? How long does it take to get a program turned around? He's gotten his guys in place. Same results though. I'm sure there are plenty of new age, up and coming coaches that will gladly take a coaching position in the SEC. Do I want Cohen to handle the hire? No, but that doesn't appear that it's going to change.

If fan support is what you are after, the ship has sailed unless Howland has some sort of renaissance. Highly unlikely.

These same threads year after year saying the same exact things surely must not be a sign.

[basedog]

Men's basketball at Msu has been dead for much of our History. Our greatness was with the Babe, when he left we may have had one or two Coaches with a winning record. I don't have the answer but I can say, we will never e elite nor consistently good.
I'm pretty sure I have a better chance of winning the Lottery than our program ever being a consistent winner. Don't believe me, look it up. Not to fret, most Sec schools basketball program is bad as well.

[Ari Gold]

What gives?

Rick Stands
39-41 first 5 years
And was hired coming off a sweet 16 and final 4 appearance

Does that clear it up a little ?

[Cooterpoot]

My advice for basketball is to just not care. Nothing is changing anytime soon.

[SteelCurtain74]

We are 12 points from being 7-2 in conference this year (Kentucky, Texas A&M & Tennessee). Also take into account that we played the best team in the conference this year on the road as well as anyone. Alabama's margin of victory in conference play is 16pts. We lost by 8 and still had a chance to win the game until the last minute or two. Our next 4 conference games are very winnable (@arkansas, @SC, LSU & Auburn). Let the season play out.

[Ari Gold]

My advice for basketball is to just not care. Nothing is changing anytime soon.

That’s fair.
So what’s your solution ?
We haven’t been relevant since the 1994-95 , 95-96 teams .. if we can call that relevant
So if we make it to the sweet 16 next year you back in ?
If somehow pull a 2008-09 off and win the sec and make the dance you back in ?
Or is it just I hate the coach I’m not supporting till we fire him situation..

Some people aren’t basketball fans period .. that’s fine .. I get it .. but usually those are the ones that just show up for the negativity thus making them part of the problem..

[Cooterpoot]

That?s fair.
So what?s your solution ?
We haven?t been relevant since the 1994-95 , 95-96 teams .. if we can call that relevant
So if we make it to the sweet 16 next year you back in ?
If somehow pull a 2008-09 off and win the sec and make the dance you back in ?
Or is it just I hate the coach I?m not supporting till we fire him situation..

Some people aren?t basketball fans period .. that?s fine .. I get it .. but usually those are the ones that just show up for the negativity thus making them part of the problem..

If we can't blow up the Hump and get new facilities, there's no point. We've got terrible facilities. It starts there. If Howland can't get us in the tournament next year, he should be fired. I can give him a pass this year due to youth. Next year is the proving ground. Go hire a decent mid-major coach and hire a good recruiting staff at that point.

[basedog]

I can tell you from my coaching experience in Basketball, there is a reason coaches aren't interested in coming to Msu. If I have to explain the reason then you don't understand anyway nor would you*

[R2Dawg]

Call me crazy but as much as I fully believe Ray was a bad hire, I truly believe if you gave him this talent level the record would be the same if not better

That could be true. What Ray got left with was the death penalty and why some of the stupid rules now in NCAA can leave a program destroyed. Rules should be setup to not leave a program where they don't even have 5 scholarship players.

The rules to give all the power to the athletes has really put coaches in a bad spot. Oats at Bama has figured it out as long as they are hitting shots. That formula works. Bama players said so. They like the freedom to play streetball, fire up threes or dunks. Just play D and you get the right to do that.

[basedog]

That could be true. What Ray got left with was the death penalty and why some of the stupid rules now in NCAA can leave a program destroyed. Rules should be setup to not leave a program where they don't even have 5 scholarship players.

The rules to give all the power to the athletes has really put coaches in a bad spot. Oats at Bama has figured it out as long as they are hitting shots. That formula works. Bama players said so. They like the freedom to play streetball, fire up threes or dunks. Just play D and you get the right to do that.

Street ball yes, watching Ga and Ark girls the other night was very entertaining as it was run up and down the court and quick shooting. It's the new way the game has turned into. Forget holding the ball and running an offense, motion offense which has a few simple rules is what the game is about. Just saying.

[Dawgology]

I can tell you from my coaching experience in Basketball, there is a reason coaches aren't interested in coming to Msu. If I have to explain the reason then you don't understand anyway nor would you*

So you don?t know either. Explain it for us big shot.

[basedog]

So you don?t know either. Explain it for us big shot.

LOL, oh I know but obvious you don't, go look at the history of ex coaches we have had. Name one that has gone to another school with success.

History isn't on Msu side. Big shot, made me laugh.

[AROB44]

LOL, oh I know but obvious you don't, go look at the history of ex coaches we have had. Name one that has gone to another school with success.

History isn't on Msu side. Big shot, made me laugh.

Well, Big Shot.....don't try and educate these geniuses. Don't you know that the 2nd string QB and the next coach are the ones that will lead us to the land of milk and honey......