Luginbill: Leach will have to run the ball more

[TrapGame]

Luginbill on OOB this am said with the kind of defensive talent Leach will face in the SEC he'll have to adjust his offense which includes running the ball more. He said the front seven of LSU, Bama and AU will eat his offense alive if he tries to throw it 50 times.

Thoughts?

[parabrave]

Well that was understood since day one. He needs to use his RBs in the passing game more, ala Sean Payton.

[FISHDAWG]

I think Luginbill is right ... I also think Leach already knows this

[TrapGame]

I think Luginbill is right ... I also think Leach already knows this

Exactly!

Leach is one smart sum bitch. And if he does have an adjustment here or there already he ain't shouting it from the rooftops.

[gravedigger]

Luginbill on OOB this am said with the kind of defensive talent Leach will face in the SEC he'll have to adjust his offense which includes running the ball more. He said the front seven of LSU, Bama and AU will eat his offense alive if he tries to throw it 50 times.

Thoughts?

They bring the house and it's going to cost them. He will run the ball as long as there are only 5 in the box. When they bring up the 6th man, he will throw more.

[Captain Falcon]

I guess I'd like to know what his definition of "more" is. Washington State threw the ball on 72% of their plays last year, and that's not factoring in sacks, so that number is really closer to 75-80%. We could throw the ball 70% of the time this year and still technically have run the ball more. Now I do think a back like Kylin will get slightly more carries than a typical Leach RB, but it's not going to be a drastic difference from what Leach has always done.

I also feel that there's a misconception with the Air Raid that it's just a bunch of deep heaves down the field. That's not really the case at all, Leach works in a lot of short passes that might as well be long hand-offs. Max Borghi only had 127 carries last year but he had 86 dang receptions. So in reality he only had 3-4 fewer touches per game than what Kylin had last year. Kylin will be very much be involved in things, it's just going to look different from how we used him last year.

[TrapGame]

I guess I'd like to know what his definition of "more" is. Washington State threw the ball on 72% of their plays last year, and that's not factoring in sacks, so that number is really closer to 75-80%. We could throw the ball 70% of the time this year and still technically have run the ball more. Now I do think a back like Kylin will get slightly more carries than a typical Leach RB, but it's not going to be a drastic difference from what Leach has always done.

I also feel that there's a misconception with the Air Raid that it's just a bunch of deep heaves down the field. That's not really the case at all, Leach works in a lot of short passes that might as well be long hand-offs. Max Borghi only had 127 carries last year but he had 86 dang receptions. So in reality he only had 3-4 fewer touches per game than what Kylin had last year. Kylin will be very much be involved in things, it's just going to look different from how we used him last year.

Yep, Matt Wyatt's video on Leach's offense showed how he works the gaps in the middle of the field. When the defense adjusts to cover those gaps he hits open targets downfield. We had another thread a while back about Leach running the ball more. Several people took as though he was going to pound it old school. No, just Leach running the ball 5 more times than usual a game could have a big impact. He certainly isn't going to waste Kylin Hill.

[SheltonChoked]

Luginbill on OOB this am said with the kind of defensive talent Leach will face in the SEC he'll have to adjust his offense which includes running the ball more. He said the front seven of LSU, Bama and AU will eat his offense alive if he tries to throw it 50 times.

Thoughts?

While Leach is not a running coach, he runs the ball.

Actual stats for runs per game for Leach:
TTU
2000 25.4 rushes per game (starting RB had 127 carries)
2001 23.7 rushes per game (starting RB had 142 carries)
2002 27.5 rushes per game (starting RB had 153 carries)
2003 23.7 rushes per game (starting RB had 124 carries)
2004 24.4 rushes per game (starting RB had 162 carries)
2005 25.7 rushes per game (starting RB had 148 carries)
2006 16.9 rushes per game (starting RB had 152 carries)
2007 18.9 rushes per game (starting RB had 84 carries) *this team had Crabtree and Amidola catching 243 passes
2008 24.4 rushes per game (starting RB had 141, backup RB had 114 carries)
2009 24.5 rushes per game (starting RB had 168 carries)
WSU
2012 21.7 rushes per game (starting RB had 85 carries)
2013 18.7 rushes per game (starting RB had 87 carries)
2014 20.3 rushes per game (starting RB had 87 carries)
2015 22.6 rushes per game (starting RB had 107 carries)
2016 27.7 rushes per game (starting RB had 102 carries)
2017 23.3 rushes per game (starting RB had 92 carries)
2018 21.4 rushes per game (starting RB had 122 carries)
2019 16.2 rushes per game (starting RB had 127 carries)

When Leach had a good RB, he ran the ball more. When he didn't he ran the ball less.

He has a good RB, probably the best back he's ever coached.

I expect to see Hill get at least 200 touches this season, about 120 rushes and 80 passes, based on Leach's history.

[NWADAWG]

Yep, Matt Wyatt's video on Leach's offense showed how he works the gaps in the middle of the field. When the defense adjusts to cover those gaps he hits open targets downfield. We had another thread a while back about Leach running the ball more. Several people took as though he was going to pound it old school. No, just Leach running the ball 5 more times than usual a game could have a big impact. He certainly isn't going to waste Kylin Hill.

Leach will run the ball 20 times in a row if that is what the D keeps giving him. He did it at TTech. I would have a hard time finding the sequence again but in one game he handed the ball off every play for 2 consecutive possessions and scored TDs on both possessions. The next series the D moved defenders into the box and he started throwing again. He actually makes adjustments to help his offense succeed.

[TrapGame]

Leach will run the ball 20 times in a row if that is what the D keeps giving him. He did it at TTech. I would have a hard time finding the sequence again but in one game he handed the ball off every play for 2 consecutive possessions and scored TDs on both possessions. The next series the D moved defenders into the box and he started throwing again. He actually makes adjustments to help his offense succeed.

And I believe you. But, that goes against what other posters have stated about Leach's system. I fully expect him to run Kylin Hill more than he has run any other RB in his coaching career. Why? Because he's never had a RB like Hill before. He's one of the deadliest weapons in the arsenal.

[StarkVegasSteve]

I think we'll see an offense more like the TTU days. He had some pretty good RBs at Tech. I'd expect Kylin gets between 110-130 carries and probably ends up in the neighborhood of 165+ touches. Like parabrave said I think we see something like what Payton runs with the Saints, albeit a little less running.

[TrapGame]

I think we'll see an offense more like the TTU days. He had some pretty good RBs at Tech. I'd expect Kylin gets between 110-130 carries and probably ends up in the neighborhood of 165+ touches. Like parabrave said I think we see something like what Payton runs with the Saints, albeit a little less running.

I think you're right. He did run it more during the Tech days, as far as I can tell. He's going to have an explosive back in Hill.

[ZedFedder]

The best coaches adjust. I think Leach is pretty good, so I think he will adjust.

[BiscuitEater]

The RB in a Leach Offense is ALSO a receiver.

Think that the passing offense will be as good as the OL lets it be .. Even moreso than the WRs. 'If' the QB has time to make his reads, the passing game will roll.

[SheltonChoked]

I think we'll see an offense more like the TTU days. He had some pretty good RBs at Tech. I'd expect Kylin gets between 110-130 carries and probably ends up in the neighborhood of 165+ touches. Like parabrave said I think we see something like what Payton runs with the Saints, albeit a little less running.

If the starting RB in the Mike Leach offense only catches 35- 50 passes, then the RB's not that good.

For reference, the only time that happened at TTU, he had Michael Crabtree and Danny Amedola. (I don't think we have a Crabtree or an Amidola at MSU this year) It happened at WSU, But the RB's all sucked.

Hill will carry the ball 10-12 times a game and catch 7-10 passes a game. Just like every other NFL quality RB he has had.

[MedDawg]

Luginbill on OOB this am said with the kind of defensive talent Leach will face in the SEC he'll have to adjust his offense which includes running the ball more. He said the front seven of LSU, Bama and AU will eat his offense alive if he tries to throw it 50 times.

Thoughts?

Because Bama, LSU, and Auburn don't have good run defenses?

That "SEC defenses will eat them up" is kind of a ridiculous statement that I've seen ever since State hired Leach. Bama and LSU tend to stop everyone. If anything, good passing teams have been the ones to challenge and even beat them.

That and the entire SEC doesn't have elite defenses like Bama and LSU. State will move the ball just fine against Arkansas, OM, Vandy, Missouri, A&M, and probably even UK and Auburn.

[TrapGame]

Because Bama, LSU, and Auburn don't have good run defenses?

That "SEC defenses will eat them up" is kind of a ridiculous statement that I've seen ever since State hired Leach. Bama and LSU tend to stop everyone. If anything, good passing teams have been the ones to challenge and even beat them.

That and the entire SEC doesn't have elite defenses like Bama and LSU. State will move the ball just fine against Arkansas, OM, Vandy, Missouri, A&M, and probably even UK and Auburn.

Yeah, I was thinking that too. Hell, Bama has had their lunch handed to them by teams that can consistently complete deep passes. That's Bama's Kryptonite. I can see the pass rush from really good/elite defenses posing a definite problem but I think KJ is smart and talented enough to dump the ball off pretty quick.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Luginbill on OOB this am said with the kind of defensive talent Leach will face in the SEC he'll have to adjust his offense which includes running the ball more. He said the front seven of LSU, Bama and AU will eat his offense alive if he tries to throw it 50 times.

Thoughts?

My thoughs are that hes probably thinking "Air raid" = long developing deep passes, and "SEC defenses" = you dont have time for that.

I agree on the second part, you cant have your plays take forever to develop ala JoMo. But after 18 years of stats its clear that "Air Raid" both gets the ball out quick and has plenty of short throw safety valves. So im not really sure he needs to "keep the defense honest", so to speak.

Now, many posters are saying Leach runs the ball all day if thats what the D gives him... im not sold on that:

I watched the '07 TT game vs Texas, and sure enough he did run the ball literally every first or 2nd or 3rd and short down that the D gave a 5 man box to him.

However, his WSU Os always sucked vs Washington. I've always assumed it was a talent discrepancy, but Washington fans say Leach REFUSED to adapt his O either in game or between seasons, and he never ran the ball. I watched the '18 WSU v UW game and sure enough, washington was giving 3 man fronts and 4-5 man boxes all game and leach simply would not hand it off.

Is it possible Leach didnt think his 5 OL could block 3 DL well eough to ensure a good gain? Maybe. Or maybe he just wants to call the plays he wants to call whether they work or not. Im not sure which it is honestly

[StarkVegasSteve]

If the starting RB in the Mike Leach offense only catches 35- 50 passes, then the RB's not that good.

For reference, the only time that happened at TTU, he had Michael Crabtree and Danny Amedola. (I don't think we have a Crabtree or an Amidola at MSU this year) It happened at WSU, But the RB's all sucked.

Hill will carry the ball 10-12 times a game and catch 7-10 passes a game. Just like every other NFL quality RB he has had.

So you're expecting Kylin Hill to catch between 70-100 passes this year...…..that would make him our leading receiver and mean that during a regular season he would be expected to catch between 100-130 passes. That would put him in the top 10 all time in receptions in a season. I think 70-100 in a regular 12-13 game season is reasonable. But with a shortened schedule of conference only opponents and the first year in a new offense I think between 35-50 receptions would be a hell of a season.

[BrunswickDawg]

So, do we need to start an over/under on when the first "RTGDB" melt takes place on here?? I'm thinking half-time of the Arkansas game.