One thing I can assure you...

[dawgday166]

Agree on that...…except that there are other, better, coaches than Leach who could make it work here. Now getting them here is another story. Also, Dabo is NOT more with less. Those are damn talented teams.

a) Dabo started out as a more with less dude. Now he is a more with more dude. And his staff is phenomenal.
b) Name some coaches that you think would produce really great drop back passing teams at MSU?

[Really Clark?]

Go look at who has hired him and their situations when they did.

Well that is irrelevant to US today. That is what you falsely alluded to. That we made a desperate hire...you couldn’t be more incorrect.

[Liverpooldawg]

a) Dabo started out as a more with less dude. Now he is a more with more dude. And his staff is phenomenal.
b) Name some coaches that you think would produce really great drop back passing teams at MSU?

A) Not really. He got good when he started recruiting like he does now. They upped their game there.
B) Saban. I know he isn't running it now, but he would be good no matter what. There are others. I DID say Getting them would be a problem, lol.
Its the drop back, lack of running , and absolutely ZERO defense that concerns me.

[Liverpooldawg]

Well that is irrelevant to US today. That is what you falsely alluded to. That we made a desperate hire...you couldn’t be more incorrect.

LOL, ok. It's not relevant, that answered me that did!

[Liverpooldawg]

Ok, I've vented. Hopefully y'all are right and I'm dead wrong. We will all be very happy that way. In fact, we will all be very unhappy, me included, if I'm right.

[defiantdog]

Ok, I've vented. Hopefully y'all are right and I'm dead wrong. We will all be very happy that way. In fact, we will all be very unhappy, me included, if I'm right.

Didn't you want to keep JoMo?

[Really Clark?]

LOL, ok. It's not relevant, that answered me that did!

Dude your cheese has slipped off the cracker. We didn’t make a desperate hire no matter how many times you say it. That’s ignorance and just what you hope would happen. Like the rest of your outdated and uninformed thinking. But to push it even further, locally, regionally, and nationally NOBODY is considering this hire as a desperate hire by Cohen. Find one actual informed pundit, media, coach that said we made a desperate hire. It’s not true but in your feeble mind.

[dawgday166]

A) Not really. He got good when he started recruiting like he does now. They upped their game there.
B) Saban. I know he isn't running it now, but he would be good no matter what. There are others. I DID say Getting them would be a problem, lol.
Its the drop back, lack of running , and absolutely ZERO defense that concerns me.

Dabo recruiting rankings leading up to his first Natty game in 2016 (2015 season) having Bama on ropes until Saban calls the onside kick with about 5 or so mins left in game (if I recall correctly ... maybe longer). Loses game 45-40.

2011 - 10th
2012 - 20th
2013 - 15th
2014 - 16th (Deshaun Watson 4* QB recruit .. not 5*)
2015 - 9th

You right per usual. Dabo just needs more talent to get to Natty title game.

[Spiderman]

I've gone on record that next year we were looking at 4 to 6 wins with Moorhead. If we had Mullen ... 6 to 8 and I'd split the middle and say 7. Next year awfully young all over and big turnover on Oline. Young QB (unless KT starts).

I don't know what we're getting but ... I know Leach is better than Moorhead without a doubt. I'm guessing 6 wins ... maybe 7 could be 5.

And I know we're fixing to find out if any offense similar to what Joe ran at PSU will work at MSU cause if someone can make it work ... Leach is one of the few who could.

There are almost ZERO similarities in Joe Moorhead's and Leach's offenses

[defiantdog]

There are almost ZERO similarities in Joe Moorhead's and Leach's offenses

Well..... they are both stubborn

[Liverpooldawg]

Didn't you want to keep JoMo?

Joe had to go. The only issue I had was timing. As I have been saying, most of you have no idea what I thought about the actual football this season. I didn't post much about it.

[Liverpooldawg]

Dude your cheese has slipped off the cracker. We didn’t make a desperate hire no matter how many times you say it. That’s ignorance and just what you hope would happen. Like the rest of your outdated and uninformed thinking. But to push it even further, locally, regionally, and nationally NOBODY is considering this hire as a desperate hire by Cohen. Find one actual informed pundit, media, coach that said we made a desperate hire. It’s not true but in your feeble mind.

OK. As I said, I've vented. I'm still involved it in the Coach 34 thread a bit. I'm about to quit it there too. I'm going to get behind the program and hope like heck I'm wrong. I don't want to be right on this at all.
One more comment: The informed pundits, media, and coaches all said that Moorhead was a home run hire. I'd use a different argument If I was you.

[BiscuitEater]

Next year has the potential to be one of the worst in MSU history.

Or, a really good 9 win year!

[Spiderman]

A) Not really. He got good when he started recruiting like he does now. They upped their game there.
B) Saban. I know he isn't running it now, but he would be good no matter what. There are others. I DID say Getting them would be a problem, lol.
Its the drop back, lack of running , and absolutely ZERO defense that concerns me.

Clemson had the tradition, the money, and everything else to be good. in fact they under achieved for years. they had a natty before Dabo in the modern era.

In fact i will never understand why the SEC took SC instead of Clemson

[Spiderman]

Well..... they are both stubborn

Only one has won 139 P5 games as a HC

[dawgday166]

There are almost ZERO similarities in Joe Moorhead's and Leach's offenses

Well ... you know more about this than I do but seems like they're both drop back passing schemes. But Leach's is simplified with quick throws, no check-with-me, etc. C34 making case (and I can see that side) about SEC speed, man-to-man coverage, etc.

So to me ... if Leach can't succeed pretty good with his scheme then we need to quit aspiring to Brady's, Sark's, etc and stick with a power spread game. What say you?

[Spiderman]

Well ... you know more about this than I do but seems like they're both drop back passing schemes. But Leach's is simplified with quick throws, no check-with-me, etc. C34 making case (and I can see that side) about SEC speed, man-to-man coverage, etc.

So to me ... if Leach can't succeed pretty good with his scheme then we need to quit aspiring to Brady's, Sark's, etc and stick with a power spread game. What say you?

Moorhead was more RPO with some dreaded West Coast principles. A lot more complicated on the reads and preparation.

Plus his screen game was basically non existent

[Liverpooldawg]

Dude your cheese has slipped off the cracker. We didn’t make a desperate hire no matter how many times you say it. That’s ignorance and just what you hope would happen. Like the rest of your outdated and uninformed thinking. But to push it even further, locally, regionally, and nationally NOBODY is considering this hire as a desperate hire by Cohen. Find one actual informed pundit, media, coach that said we made a desperate hire. It’s not true but in your feeble mind.

Since you asked.......

https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/4424251002

As I said I'm done with it. I just posted this because the guy asked. Argue with Wolken, not me.

[Spiderman]

Since you asked.......

https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/4424251002

As I said I'm done with it. I just posted this because the guy asked. Argue with Wolken, not me.

You do know that Wolken has a personal dislike for Leach since Leach called him out a while back, don't you? Wolken hates Leach

[Cooterpoot]

Leach is a good offensive coach. Nobody can deny that.