One thing I can assure you...

[Liverpooldawg]

What's really funny is I wouldn't at all be surprised if y'all are wanting to fire him, and I'll be the one saying we started down this road we need to give it more time. I hope I'm wrong. I hope he takes us to heights we have never reached. As I said, I'll have my say today and then will back the program, like I always do.

[Liverpooldawg]

I've gone on record that next year we were looking at 4 to 6 wins with Moorhead. If we had Mullen ... 6 to 8 and I'd split the middle and say 7. Next year awfully young all over and big turnover on Oline. Young QB (unless KT starts).

I don't know what we're getting but ... I know Leach is better than Moorhead without a doubt. I'm guessing 6 wins ... maybe 7 could be 5.

And I know we're fixing to find out if any offense similar to what Joe ran at PSU will work at MSU cause if someone can make it work ... Leach is one of the few who could.

I said 5-6 under Joe. 3-4 now. The personnel is just not a match. It wasn't a match for Joe and it's even less of one for Leach.

[dawgday166]

I said 5-6 under Joe. 3-4 now. The personnel is just not a match. It wasn't a match for Joe and it's even less of one for Leach.

Leach is 10x the coach Joe is. Joe wins most like 4 next year depending on Arky & OM improvement. Kiffin would wax Joe.

[Really Clark?]

No, I never mentioned the media at all. I said the impression it would make in the people that mattered would lead to a desperation type hire. It did. We will see about the players. In all honesty that probability doesn't matter as much now.

This was not close to a desperate hire. We just pulled a winning P5 coach who WSU was extending just last month...this is about far from desperate as you can get.

[confucius say]

I'm still warming up to the hire, but even Liverpool, I think, has to agree that leach > joe. That puts in a better spot than we were at a minimum.

[Cloak]

No, I never mentioned the media at all. I said the impression it would make in the people that mattered would lead to a desperation type hire. It did. We will see about the players. In all honesty that probability doesn't matter as much now.

Stick to futbol, not football.

[TrapGame]

Leach is 10x the coach Joe is. Joe wins most like 4 next year depending on Arky & OM improvement. Kiffin would wax Joe.

This^^^^

All damn day long!

[MoreCowbell]

LOL, I have been accused of being one of the worst sunshine pumpers on many boards, including this one. It's actually very, very rare that I am as down as I am right now. I'm going to vent today, and then I'll do what I always do. I'll get behind him till it's time not to. I do think this is a monumental mistake. This will be very ugly in the beginning and we as a fan base turn on coaches very, very quickly.

Posters usually don?t bother me but you?re an exception. You are just being negative to be different. Chill out, either way you slice it this is a hood hire for us because EVERYONE is talking about it.

[OLJWales]

Don't know. Most if not all of them wanted him gone if that helps.

So then you were part of the minority who wanted the JOMO shit show continued.

I'm more worried about Leach's age than not having a good D or him trying to run an offense without the neccessary personnel. I was hoping for someone younger. But the guys done a ton at hard to croot places.

I gotta feeling he's gonna whip this team into shape in a take no bullshit fashion.

[coachkmb14]

LOL, I have been accused of being one of the worst sunshine pumpers on many boards, including this one. It's actually very, very rare that I am as down as I am right now. I'm going to vent today, and then I'll do what I always do. I'll get behind him till it's time not to. I do think this is a monumental mistake. This will be very ugly in the beginning and we as a fan base turn on coaches very, very quickly.

I completely disagree with your concern on this hire. He has been successful where he has coached, this will be no different. I have wanted Leach to come to MSU for a long time. If he hires a hoss DC (Todd Grantham) we will be competing at levels beyond the Mullen years. Take a breath and have some faith. Leach is the real deal. Six wins next year is the floor, I can see 8-10 if things line up just right (OOC games are locks, Ole Miss, Arkansas and Missouri are locks, Kentucky is a probable, A&M or Auburn can be wins). Now I am not saying to expect a NY6 Bowl this year....but expect a higher level of success than you have ever seen before.

[Liverpooldawg]

And no "check with me" bullshit

That WOULD be a positive, if it happens.

[dawgday166]

I completely disagree with your concern on this hire. He has been successful where he has coached, this will be no different. I have wanted Leach to come to MSU for a long time. If he hires a hoss DC (Todd Grantham) we will be competing at levels beyond the Mullen years. Take a breath and have some faith. Leach is the real deal. Six wins next year is the floor, I can see 8-10 if things line up just right (OOC games are locks, Ole Miss, Arkansas and Missouri are locks, Kentucky is a probable, A&M or Auburn can be wins). Now I am not saying to expect a NY6 Bowl this year....but expect a higher level of success than you have ever seen before.

I've been sold on Leach and excited and real curious to see how it turns out. But 10 wins ain't happening with Dabo coaching next year. We don't need to get too carried away with those types of numbers.

[Liverpooldawg]

I completely disagree with your concern on this hire. He has been successful where he has coached, this will be no different. I have wanted Leach to come to MSU for a long time. If he hires a hoss DC (Todd Grantham) we will be competing at levels beyond the Mullen years. Take a breath and have some faith. Leach is the real deal. Six wins next year is the floor, I can see 8-10 if things line up just right (OOC games are locks, Ole Miss, Arkansas and Missouri are locks, Kentucky is a probable, A&M or Auburn can be wins). Now I am not saying to expect a NY6 Bowl this year....but expect a higher level of success than you have ever seen before.

His defensive problems are in large part due to his offense. The floor next year is 2. The ceiling is probably 5, MAYBE 6. You need to look at his first years. We do NOT have his kind of personnel AT ALL. It will take 3 years before we even know if it has a chance. That's a good thing I guess because he is almost certain to get 4 years no matter what. I have seen us win 10 games (more than once), play in a NY6, and get to #1, by the way.

[gtowndawg]

This was not close to a desperate hire. We just pulled a winning P5 coach who WSU was extending just last month...this is about far from desperate as you can get.

Also a two time national coach of the year.

[Liverpooldawg]

So then you were part of the minority who wanted the JOMO shit show continued.

I'm more worried about Leach's age than not having a good D or him trying to run an offense without the neccessary personnel. I was hoping for someone younger. But the guys done a ton at hard to croot places.

I gotta feeling he's gonna whip this team into shape in a take no bullshit fashion.

One half year only. It was obvious it wasn't going to work. We blew any good impressions that Mullen moving on to a bigger program left in places where it matters. This hire pretty much proves that. He ain't worried about a long career anymore. I expected either this or someone who would jump just for the money. I REALLY hope I'm wrong about this. Y'all have only made me feel much worse by the way.

[dawgday166]

His defensive problems are in large part due to his offense. The floor next year is 2. The ceiling is probably 5, MAYBE 6. You need to look at his first years. We do NOT have his kind of personnel AT ALL. It will take 3 years before we even know if it has a chance. That's a good thing I guess because he is almost certain to get 4 years no matter what. I have seen us win 10 games (more than once), play in a NY6, and get to #1, by the way.

Look dude ... I don't say this often to anyone but you need to go back to celebrating our GLORIOUS win against OM.

You just stated he's worse than Joe and that's a crock of shit. The ONLY reason I thought Joe had a shot of winning 6 next year was ... SHOOP.

[Liverpooldawg]

Posters usually don?t bother me but you?re an exception. You are just being negative to be different. Chill out, either way you slice it this is a hood hire for us because EVERYONE is talking about it.

Who cares if everyone is talking about it. Everybody thought we made a great hire the last time too. You know what I said THEN? I said I thought he was a good coach but we would take a big step back because we did not have the personnel to run his offense. I only said it once or twice because Joe was so highly touted. I am not being negative to be different. I was posting this same stuff two years ago when Leach was mentioned. ALSO, I'm not different. There are many who agree with me here. As I said, I'm going to vent today and then I'll do what I always do, get behind the program.

[Liverpooldawg]

Look dude ... I don't say this often to anyone but you need to go back to celebrating our GLORIOUS win against OM.

You just stated he's worse than Joe and that's a crock of shit. The ONLY reason I thought Joe had a shot of winning 6 next year was ... SHOOP.

I did NOT say that. I said that our personnel are much less suited to what he does than they were to what Joe unsuccessfully tried to do. It also does not mesh with our traditional recruiting strengths. This is absolutely the riskiest hire we could have made. I hope it works out. I'll be perfectly happy to be wrong.

I also find it hilarious that y'all like to dish it out, but you don't take it very well.

[Liverpooldawg]

I'm still warming up to the hire, but even Liverpool, I think, has to agree that leach > joe. That puts in a better spot than we were at a minimum.

It may eventually. Joe did not work here, mainly because the personnel we usually get didn't mesh with his scheme. That goes triple for Leach. Hopefully he can change that personnel mix to fit him. The next few years are probably going to be rough. I'd say next year at best is a wash.

[SheltonChoked]

Name one that lasted. I'm talking about full blown air raid. It didn't last when Leach was doing it as an assistant.

Your memory is bad. or your argument sucks. Leach was only at UK for 2 years 97-98. He left to go to OU for the 99 season.... Kentucky was winning 9-24 in the 3 years before Mumme brought in the air raid.

Leach's offensive system is simple 6-8 plays out of multiple formations.

Probably will not beat Bama, but will win 7+ a year. Just like he was at TTU...