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Not sure why we are discussing this but....
Croom was a good running backs coach. One of the best in the NFL at it and maybe the best at it.
Croom was not a good head coach. I don't think anyone disagrees here.
He gave us something positive when our program was the lowest I have ever seen it in my fan lifetime- 2-10 after 2003 and on probation. One of those wins was a sloppy win over Vanderbilt and a win where Sherrill acted like a complete ass after we beat Memphis.
The 2007 team should get more credit than it does. Yes, they had some timely turnovers and special teams play but THEY did that. They should get credit for that. I have often wondered what that team would have been like if Jackie had redshirted Omarr Conner in 2003 like he should have instead of play him at WR for a few snaps in some what were essentially meaningless games for us because we weren't even going to be bowl eligible.
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Originally Posted by
THE Bruce Dickinson
Dixon got a DUI within the first month that Mullen was here. Guess it took a little more time than we thought
DUI, while being bad and stupid thing to do, is not forgery of US Dollars, shooting, multiple players beating up a cop...etc... But I'm not going to argue with you about.
Croom did a great job with discipline and a great job towards building back up the team. Mullen extended that to higher expectations.
Whistleblower exposes: (FISA), Supreme Court Chief Justice John Roberts, 156 other judges, members of Congress, and Donald J. Trump were targeted by the HAMMER.
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Originally Posted by
drunkernhelldawg
I was there. The negativity toward Croom was unrelenting after the La Tech loss. I'll always believe it was over then. And it's interesting that this loss followed our only winning season of the entire decade, yet the reaction was still what it was. I'll always wonder why that is.
I do think that that the athletic department started Croom off on the wrong foot with that "the only color that matters" bullshit. It was a mistake for us to feed the racial aspect. The proper response is to ignore that as much as possible, history or not. We're a living institution, not a textbook.
You wonder why the reaction was what it was? We lost to La friggen Tech. The reaction was the same when Dan lost to USA. Stop trying to make something out of nothing. We all know what you?re doing.
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Here are the facts:
1. Croom had twice as many players arrested in 5 years as Jackie Wayne did in 13.
2. Croom fell asleep on a recruit's couch
3. Croom lost his job because he would not fire his OC who ran exactly what Croom wanted him to run on offense
4. Croom said he would retire before changing to a Spread Offense (but instead made The Ninja fire him)
5. Croom said he saw on film Maine had as good or better talent than we had
6. Croom said the reason we were losing in 2008 was because the D wasnt scoring as much as they did in 2007
7. Croom said he didnt care if we didnt gain a yard- he was going to line-up and run right at LSU (Nick Saban)
8. Croom rejected Jackie's offer to help him transition at State
9. Croom made Omar Conner- who was built for the Spread- make a thousand reads at QB
10. Croom was a terrible HC period. Some of his former assts still laugh at him and the shit he did. Hearing one of them tell the falling asleep on the couch story while laughing so hard they can barely finish it tells you everything you need to know his time in Sville.
Walk like the King or walk like you don't care who the King is
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Originally Posted by
Todd4State
Not sure why we are discussing this but....
Croom was a good running backs coach. One of the best in the NFL at it and maybe the best at it.
Croom was not a good head coach. I don't think anyone disagrees here.
He gave us something positive when our program was the lowest I have ever seen it in my fan lifetime- 2-10 after 2003 and on probation. One of those wins was a sloppy win over Vanderbilt and a win where Sherrill acted like a complete ass after we beat Memphis.
The 2007 team should get more credit than it does. Yes, they had some timely turnovers and special teams play but THEY did that. They should get credit for that. I have often wondered what that team would have been like if Jackie had redshirted Omarr Conner in 2003 like he should have instead of play him at WR for a few snaps in some what were essentially meaningless games for us because we weren't even going to be bowl eligible.
That's all anybody is saying. Some people it's just either or.
Whistleblower exposes: (FISA), Supreme Court Chief Justice John Roberts, 156 other judges, members of Congress, and Donald J. Trump were targeted by the HAMMER.
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Originally Posted by
Todd4State
Not sure why we are discussing this but....
Croom was a good running backs coach. One of the best in the NFL at it and maybe the best at it.
Croom was not a good head coach. I don't think anyone disagrees here.
He gave us something positive when our program was the lowest I have ever seen it in my fan lifetime- 2-10 after 2003 and on probation. One of those wins was a sloppy win over Vanderbilt and a win where Sherrill acted like a complete ass after we beat Memphis.
The 2007 team should get more credit than it does. Yes, they had some timely turnovers and special teams play but THEY did that. They should get credit for that. I have often wondered what that team would have been like if Jackie had redshirted Omarr Conner in 2003 like he should have instead of play him at WR for a few snaps in some what were essentially meaningless games for us because we weren't even going to be bowl eligible.
Except for Dixon and Derek Peguess, I don’t recall a single player from that ‘07 team. Odd.
And, yes, I absolutely blame Jackie for 2001-2003, and I blame Dan for 2016. Jackie had mailed it in by then, and Dan handled the locker room about as poorly as he could’ve to start that season. I don’t just blame Croom for his mistakes.
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Croom always saw himself as too good for MSU. He started his tenure mad that Bama didn’t want him and never got over it.
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1. Croom had twice as many players arrested in 5 years as Jackie Wayne did in 13.
That's what happens when the head coach allows discipline to tank. That's a fact too. JWS did that. We were on probation for what JWS did. Not Croom.
2. Croom fell asleep on a recruit's couch
Has zero to do with the topic.
3. Croom lost his job because he would not fire his OC who ran exactly what Croom wanted him to run on offense
4. Croom said he would retire before changing to a Spread Offense (but instead made The Ninja fire him)
Has nothing to do with the topic.
In fact, #s 5,6,7,8(which would be stupid of him to allow), 9, 10 have zero to do with the topic. The credit being given to him is from the lack of discipline he inherited along with probation and how he restored that for the next coach.
Whistleblower exposes: (FISA), Supreme Court Chief Justice John Roberts, 156 other judges, members of Congress, and Donald J. Trump were targeted by the HAMMER.
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Originally Posted by
Pollodawg
Croom always saw himself as too good for MSU. He started his tenure mad that Bama didn’t want him and never got over it.
This and why didn't bama hire him?
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Originally Posted by
Coach007
That's what happens when the head coach allows discipline to tank. That's a fact too. JWS did that. We were on probation for what JWS did. Not Croom.
Has zero to do with the topic.
Has nothing to do with the topic.
In fact, #s 5,6,7,8(which would be stupid of him to allow), 9, 10 have zero to do with the topic. The credit being given to him is from the lack of discipline he inherited along with probation and how he restored that for the next coach.
What you seem to be missing is that kicking players off a team is not a sign of discipline. A disciplined team doesn't have players getting in trouble to begin with. They are in shape. They are motivated to play. Croom had none of those things. He had players counterfeiting $ and shooting up the school. His holdover players talk about how difficult Mullen's training was and they had never worked like that and been in that kind of shape. And Maine, La Tech, 45-0 all show how unmotivated they were. A disciplined team don't have those things happen.
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Originally Posted by
BrunswickDawg
What you seem to be missing is that kicking players off a team is not a sign of discipline. A disciplined team doesn't have players getting in trouble to begin with. They are in shape. They are motivated to play. Croom had none of those things. He had players counterfeiting $ and shooting up the school. His holdover players talk about how difficult Mullen's training was and they had never worked like that and been in that kind of shape. And Maine, La Tech, 45-0 all show how unmotivated they were. A disciplined team don't have those things happen.
I remember watching the 45-0 disaster to UM on TV. I think Chris Relf was 3rd team and was nearly "killed" by the rush when he was put in. TV cut to him on the sideline and some players seemed to be laughing about it. This, in what, year 5. BTW, how hard is it to be a career NFL running back coach. How many of them can you name?
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Originally Posted by
Coach007
No. He wasn't lazy. He wasn't ignorant. Yes.. He was stubborn.
Clueless
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Originally Posted by
Coach007
That's what happens when the head coach allows discipline to tank. That's a fact too. JWS did that. We were on probation for what JWS did. Not Croom.
Has zero to do with the topic.
Has nothing to do with the topic.
In fact, #s 5,6,7,8(which would be stupid of him to allow), 9, 10 have zero to do with the topic. The credit being given to him is from the lack of discipline he inherited along with probation and how he restored that for the next coach.
Just stop. Nothing to do with the topic?? So what does then??? My heavens. Those have everything to do with it!! Everything!!
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Originally Posted by
BrunswickDawg
What you seem to be missing is that kicking players off a team is not a sign of discipline. A disciplined team doesn't have players getting in trouble to begin with.
What you seem to be missing is that we had players getting in trouble and discipline had to start somewhere. That culture, unless you boot everybody off, had built up over 5 years and had to change over time.
He had players counterfeiting $
No sir.. That was JWS. Croom just did the dirty work. That happened under JWS. Croom gave him the opportunity to fix the situation and the player failed to do so. So Croom booted him.
and shooting up the school.
again, it took time to reverse the culture.
His holdover players talk about how difficult Mullen's training was and they had never worked like that and been in that kind of shape.
Awesome.
And Maine, La Tech, 45-0 all show how unmotivated they were.
Are we about to go into losses of all our coaches to see who has had an unexpected loss? Like to south Alabama... ETC? At least Croom beat bama. Talk about motivation. Saban lost at bama to ULM.
Last edited by Coach007; 07-12-2019 at 06:19 PM.
Whistleblower exposes: (FISA), Supreme Court Chief Justice John Roberts, 156 other judges, members of Congress, and Donald J. Trump were targeted by the HAMMER.
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Originally Posted by
Homedawg
Just stop. Nothing to do with the topic?? So what does then??? My heavens. Those have everything to do with it!! Everything!!
No.. it doesn't. We are not talking about his overall coaching. We are talking what he, as a HC contributed to the current success. That's cleaning up the program and and install some discipline.
Whistleblower exposes: (FISA), Supreme Court Chief Justice John Roberts, 156 other judges, members of Congress, and Donald J. Trump were targeted by the HAMMER.
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Originally Posted by
Pollodawg
Except for Dixon and Derek Peguess, I don’t recall a single player from that ‘07 team. Odd.
And, yes, I absolutely blame Jackie for 2001-2003, and I blame Dan for 2016. Jackie had mailed it in by then, and Dan handled the locker room about as poorly as he could’ve to start that season. I don’t just blame Croom for his mistakes.
Originally Posted by
Pollodawg
Croom always saw himself as too good for MSU. He started his tenure mad that Bama didn’t want him and never got over it.
Anthony Johnson, Jamar Cheney, Keith Fitzhugh, KJ Wright, Lance Long among others...
The funny thing is Dan also saw himself as too good for MSU if we're honest with ourselves here.
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Originally Posted by
Todd4State
Anthony Johnson, Jamar Cheney, Keith Fitzhugh, KJ Wright, Lance Long among others...
The funny thing is Dan also saw himself as too good for MSU if we're honest with ourselves here.
Didn't Anthony Johnson get kicked off the team over the gunfight on campus and go to Jackson State? Correct me if I am wrong. Jackie's last couple of years were a total disaster, but I don't remember a gunfight by players on campus.
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Croom beat a 6-6 Bama teams. He never beat one that was worth a shit. The Saban team he beat finished 6-6 and didnt have a player drafted that April- the only time that has happened in what- the last 40 years?
Walk like the King or walk like you don't care who the King is
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Still waiting for an analysis on why bama didn't hire him as their head coach. In the ESPN piece, Croom stated that he was mistreated by them in no uncertain terms.
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Originally Posted by
Coach34
Croom beat a 6-6 Bama teams. He never beat one that was worth a shit. The Saban team he beat finished 6-6 and didnt have a player drafted that April- the only time that has happened in what- the last 40 years?
Croom beat bama 2 times. Back to back.
No it wasn't the only time we beat bama in 40 years. We beat them in 96,97,98, and 2000
Whistleblower exposes: (FISA), Supreme Court Chief Justice John Roberts, 156 other judges, members of Congress, and Donald J. Trump were targeted by the HAMMER.
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