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Will Clark Baseball HOF
Will is on the baseball HOF's "Game Era" ballot and is one of 10 players on it. Joe Carter, Lee Smith, Orel Hershiser, Albert Belle, Harold Baines, Lou Piniella, and George Steinbrenner are among the others.
He needs 75% of the vote to get into the HOF.
I'm not sure he gets it- I think Lee Smith, Harold Baines, and Steinbrenner will be the most likely to get in- but maybe one day.
https://baseballhall.org/todays-game-era-ballot-2019
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Not sure how I missed this but former Jackson Mets manager Davey Johnson is also on the list.
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Yeah, I'm sorry, but if Dale Murphy isn't a HOF, then none of these guys are.
"After dealing with Ole Miss for over a year," he said, "I've learned to expect their leadership to do and say things that the leadership at other Division I schools would never consider doing and to justify their actions by reminding themselves that "We're Ole Miss.""
- Tom Mars, Esq. 4.9.18
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Will Clark, George Brett & Darryl Strawberry had the sweetest swings I've ever seen. Used to enjoy a lot of Jackson Mets games watching Strawman rake.
Did Will just not play enough years that makes him questionable? Would love to see him make it.
hijack alert: hung out about 11 months in NYC in '86. Saw Darrel Evans go yard for the Tigers in The House that Ruth Built. Was at the game when Tommy John made his comeback from surgery that was named after him. He beat my KC Royals that night. Was at game 7 when my Mets beat the Sox. Game 6 was a mixed night for me at the Blarney Stone in Manhattan. We had just beaten TN in football and my Dad and I talked the bartender into putting one of the t.v.'s on our game against Miami and Vinnie Testaverde. God that game sucked. But what an explosion on the streets when the Mets made that dramatic comeback in the bottom of the 9th. Fireworks and total strangers everywhere hugging each other.
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Originally Posted by
Bully13
Did Will just not play enough years that makes him questionable? Would love to see him make it.
Will was a very good, consistent hitter - but had too many contemporaries that make his numbers look mundane. Only 1 30 HR season, only 4 100 RBI seasons, only 4 seasons above .310 AVG.
He was a lock every year for .300/15/80 and terrific defense - but the HOF requires you either have a gawdy number in a major category, or play in NY, LA, or Chicago to make the HOF with numbers like Will.
Murphy has 100+ more HR, about the same RBIs, more Gold Gloves, more MVPs, and more All-Star appearance and can't get in. And yes his AVG is 40 pts lower, but from '82-'87 Murph was the best in the game.
"After dealing with Ole Miss for over a year," he said, "I've learned to expect their leadership to do and say things that the leadership at other Division I schools would never consider doing and to justify their actions by reminding themselves that "We're Ole Miss.""
- Tom Mars, Esq. 4.9.18
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Hey wait a minute. I had forgotten he played 15 years. Lifetime BA of .303. Slugging % of .497. 284 dingers which is 18.933 per year. Shouldn't that be close to an automatic? Or is it due to his personality that people just didn't like? We should have 2 HOF that played at MSU IMO.
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Originally Posted by
Bully13
Hey wait a minute. I had forgotten he played 15 years. Lifetime BA of .303. Slugging % of .497. 284 dingers which is 18.933 per year. Shouldn't that be close to an automatic? Or is it due to his personality that people just didn't like? We should have 2 HOF that played at MSU IMO.
None of those numbers are automatic. 400 HR. 1,500 RBI. .500 SLG. .300 all together make a HOF. To get in without those, you need to be the most productive person in a single category over a 12-15 year period or more to make it.
Think Wade Boggs and Tony Gwynn. Or, you can be player who changes how a position is played - like Cal Ripken, or just a balls-out freak at what you do like Rickey Henderson (All-time career leader in Runs Scored and Stolen Bases).
The best argument for guys like Murph and Will getting in is Craig Biggio and Roberto Alomar. I still haven't figured out how those 2 got in (and Murph and Will haven't) other than they played 2B and someone decided there needed to be more 2B in the HOF.
"After dealing with Ole Miss for over a year," he said, "I've learned to expect their leadership to do and say things that the leadership at other Division I schools would never consider doing and to justify their actions by reminding themselves that "We're Ole Miss.""
- Tom Mars, Esq. 4.9.18
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There is no HOF if Barry Bonds isn't in it.
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Mcgriff should be in before Clark. To me Clark just isn't a HOF player.
Bonds, Clemens, McGwire, and palmeoro would all be in if they weren't blatant cheaters. But they were and their greatness was inflated because of it. Therefore I have no problem with them being left out.
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Originally Posted by
Dawg61
There is no HOF if Barry Bonds isn't in it.
Barry blew that with BALCO and their cream and clear.
"After dealing with Ole Miss for over a year," he said, "I've learned to expect their leadership to do and say things that the leadership at other Division I schools would never consider doing and to justify their actions by reminding themselves that "We're Ole Miss.""
- Tom Mars, Esq. 4.9.18
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Originally Posted by
BrunswickDawg
Barry blew that with BALCO and their cream and clear.
Odds are 100% there's already roid users in the HOF. They should let all of them in and put asterisks saying they played during the steroid era. Not having Clemens, Bonds and McGwire in the HOF is a joke.
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Originally Posted by
Dawg61
Odds are 100% there's already roid users in the HOF. They should let all of them in and put asterisks saying they played during the steroid era. Not having Clemens, Bonds and McGwire in the HOF is a joke.
Even knowing that they put up the numbers they did BECAUSE of steroids?? I'd say them being in would be a joke...and I think some of the folks that have gone in recently are in a similar category. But they weren't near as blatant.
Bonds is the one guy on your list that would have been a shoe in without the roids...which is why his decision was even dumber. The obvious roid use, the lying, throwing his "trainer" under the bus, and just being an overall shitty individual are what have combined to keep him out. Make no mistake tho, despite being a shitty person he'd gone in first ballot if he wasn't directly connected to roids.
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Who is and isn't in the Hall of Fame is pretty stupid when you think about it.
Everyone knows Bonds and Pete Rose and Clemens are all hall of fame players. Whether they get inducted or not, they are.
Will Clark or Dale Murphy or any other player who has been close but not got in, or other players who've been close then eventually got in - obviously there is some doubt there whether they should be.
Someone should just make a list or right a book.
Level 1 players: Hank Aaron, Babe Ruth, etc. (greatest of all time)
Level 2 players: Greg Maddux, Ken Griffey (easy picks but not greatest of all time)
Level 3 players: Chipper Jones, Craig Biggio (great because of their position, or switch hitter and pretty easy pick)
Level 4 players: Bonds, McGuire (easy pick but they cheated to some exent)
Level 5 players: Murphy, McGriff, etc (borderline players who were very good but not great)
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Originally Posted by
BrunswickDawg
Yeah, I'm sorry, but if Dale Murphy isn't a HOF, then none of these guys are.
I agree. And to note- I think the HOF considers Murphy to be in a different era. He was on a committee vote last year.
Originally Posted by
BrunswickDawg
None of those numbers are automatic. 400 HR. 1,500 RBI. .500 SLG. .300 all together make a HOF. To get in without those, you need to be the most productive person in a single category over a 12-15 year period or more to make it.
Think Wade Boggs and Tony Gwynn. Or, you can be player who changes how a position is played - like Cal Ripken, or just a balls-out freak at what you do like Rickey Henderson (All-time career leader in Runs Scored and Stolen Bases).
The best argument for guys like Murph and Will getting in is Craig Biggio and Roberto Alomar. I still haven't figured out how those 2 got in (and Murph and Will haven't) other than they played 2B and someone decided there needed to be more 2B in the HOF.
I think it's ridiculous that there are certain magic numbers for induction except in rare cases like Sandy Koufax. If people consider you a great player- you should be in. It seems to me like the basketball HOF does it better than baseball. The magic numbers favor guys like Don Sutton who basically is in the HOF because he played a long time.
Originally Posted by
Dawg61
Odds are 100% there's already roid users in the HOF. They should let all of them in and put asterisks saying they played during the steroid era. Not having Clemens, Bonds and McGwire in the HOF is a joke.
Hi Jeff Bagwell and Craig Biggio! Agree that the steroid users should be in the HOF. What do the sportswriters really get for keeping them out? Some kind of moral trophy. It's absolutely ridiculous.
Originally Posted by
Matty Dispatch
Who is and isn't in the Hall of Fame is pretty stupid when you think about it.
Everyone knows Bonds and Pete Rose and Clemens are all hall of fame players. Whether they get inducted or not, they are.
Will Clark or Dale Murphy or any other player who has been close but not got in, or other players who've been close then eventually got in - obviously there is some doubt there whether they should be.
Someone should just make a list or right a book.
Level 1 players: Hank Aaron, Babe Ruth, etc. (greatest of all time)
Level 2 players: Greg Maddux, Ken Griffey (easy picks but not greatest of all time)
Level 3 players: Chipper Jones, Craig Biggio (great because of their position, or switch hitter and pretty easy pick)
Level 4 players: Bonds, McGuire (easy pick but they cheated to some exent)
Level 5 players: Murphy, McGriff, etc (borderline players who were very good but not great)
I agree with and like the levels but I will say that all five levels of players should be in.
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Jeff Bagwell was probably as big on roids as anyone else or at least he definitely looked like it. Palmerio is purely punished for the finger wag. Amazing that he fails a test right after that but passes a test just a few weeks later. Long term steroid users fail tests months after quitting. Either Raffy was great at covering it up and got sloppy immediately after being under the gun or he was telling the truth that it was a tainted B12 shot. He never showed symptoms like the other guys that were using. Pretty dumb to accept something like a B12 shot but he has more than paid for it.
Raffy is the only guy with 3k hits and 500 HRs that hasn't been voted in to the HOF. Pujols, and ARod are the only other two not in the HOF.
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Will is an interesting HOF candidate.
60 WAR is generally considered barrier to entry into the HOF & Will has a lifetime WAR of 52, 6 time All-Star, life time average above .300 & an OBP of .384, & an OPS of .880
While I think these number fall just short of being an HOF, you can certainly make a case. There are worse players, statistically, in the HOF than Will Clark
Palmeiro on the other hand is a no-brainer. He has a lifetime WAR of 70, mostly because he played 6 more seasons than Clark. Overall, Clark has a better statistics per year than Palmeiro.
Clark's biggest short coming is that he played 1B, & that significantly lowers his life time WAR due to defensive reduction. Has Will played most any other position in baseball, he's a slam dunk HOFer
Last edited by ShotgunDawg; 11-06-2018 at 05:23 PM.
CAN'T PUT A SADDLE ON A MUSTANG
Quit Your Bi$&$&?!, He's Not Going to Run the Ball More
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HOF is something football gets right. Baseballs' fascination with statistics does more harm then good to really great players. I've always thought if a player was ubiquitous with a team and performed at a high level for 8-10 years they should get in. If you say "Player X was <insert team here> in the 80s" then that should be your sign. Dale Murphy was the Braves in the 80s. Jim Rice was the Red Sox in the late 70s and 80s. Will Clark was the Giants in the 80s and early 90s. Don Mattingly was the Yankees in the 80s and early 90s. Turn on the All-Star game, and they are there like clock work. Look at league leaders in their stats, they are the only player for that team you see.
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Stats change due to the game changing things. How well you compared to your piers during your stint needs to play a part.
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Originally Posted by
Bully13
Stats change due to the game changing things. How well you compared to your piers during your stint needs to play a part.
I think a BIG part of the problem is the media doesn't understand the difference between eras. The 1990's had inflated offensive stats that made the players of the 80's look worse. And that is what has kept players like Dale Murphy out. Actually the sportswriters voting for the HOF should be done away with. Most of the never played the game at a high level. They don't know anything about the true effect of steroids or working out as evidenced by Bagwell and Biggio getting in the HOF. I like how they point out guys like McGwire and Bonds that used steroids but completely gloss over guys like Fernando Vina and Tim Laker who were found to use them as well and never came close to putting up huge numbers.
The whole reason why the Baseball HOF has committees like the one Clark is in is to try to fix their obvious screwups.
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He should be voted in to spite the roid ragers.
That said: The grandstanding Senators who called the players in to testify shouldve all been banished to gitmo.
Last edited by Schultzy; 11-07-2018 at 05:53 AM.
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