MSU is STILL Not Serious About Football

[msstate7]

Arnett is a hell of a DC. Hell, when we were getting 3 yard passes on offense, his defense was winning games.

[Quaoarsking]

Arnett is a hell of a DC. Hell, when we were getting 3 yard passes on offense, his defense was winning games.

I just reviewed the 11 SEC games we won under Leach and couldn't find a single example of a time where the offense was bad and the defense won the game for us.

There were examples where the offense and defense were both pretty good (not taking anything away from Arnett) and 1 game where they were both bad and we somehow won anyway (2020 Vanderbilt), but I don't think your description of "Arnett's defense winning games for Leach" stands up to scrutiny.

[msstate7]

I just reviewed the 11 SEC games we won under Leach and couldn't find a single example of a time where the offense was bad and the defense won the game for us.

There were examples where the offense and defense were both pretty good (not taking anything away from Arnett) and 1 game where they were both bad and we somehow won anyway (2020 Vanderbilt), but I don't think your description of "Arnett's defense winning games for Leach" stands up to scrutiny.

I don't even care enough to look, but did offense ever score more than def allowed during leach tenure? Sec ranks?

[DownwardDawg]

I just reviewed the 11 SEC games we won under Leach and couldn't find a single example of a time where the offense was bad and the defense won the game for us.

There were examples where the offense and defense were both pretty good (not taking anything away from Arnett) and 1 game where they were both bad and we somehow won anyway (2020 Vanderbilt), but I don't think your description of "Arnett's defense winning games for Leach" stands up to scrutiny.

Hell, right off the top of my head I can name one. The last game Leach coached. The Egg Bowl. The defense kept kiffins offense in check most of the game. The offense had opportunities to put the game away and couldn't seal the deal. Offense handed ole miss the ball and said here ya go. Defense stopped them for the win.

There were multiple games that the defense kept it close enough despite the offense not being able to do shit. Then the offense scored just enough to win. Only because the defense kept the score low and close.

[Quaoarsking]

Let's see if this formats correctly:

• Offensive Yards
• Offensive TDs
• Defensive Yards Allowed
• Defensive TDs Allowed
• Defensive TDs Scored

632 5 425 4 0 2020 LSU 44-34
208 3 478 2 0 2020 Vanderbilt 24-17
446 4 342 4 2 2020 Missouri 51-32
438 3 297 2 0 2021 Texas A&M 26-22
522 6 155 0 0 2021 Vanderbilt 45-6
438 4 216 1 0 2021 Kentucky 31-17
487 6 483 5 0 2021 Auburn 43-34
473 4 388 3 1 2022 Texas A&M 42-24
568 6 483 2 0 2022 Arkansas 40-17
370 4 331 4 0 2022 Auburn 39-33
336 3 335 3 0 2022 Ole Miss 24-22

These are the 11 SEC wins in the Leach Era. There isn't a good example of the offense sucking and the defense bailing us out for the win. In 8 of the 11 wins, we had at least 400 yards and 3 TDs, so even when the defense played well too, you can't say they bailed us out.

• The last 2 games, 2022 wins over Auburn and Ole Miss, seem really similar on paper, which is interesting because they don't seem that way in my memory. I remember thinking the offense and defense were both flat against Auburn and that they both played pretty well against Ole Miss (except when Will Rogers tried to run it in himself and failed).
• They were both awful against Vanderbilt in 2020 and we were incredibly lucky to win.

None of this is intended as a knock on Arnett. He did well as Leach's DC. I'm just defending Leach's offense.

[R2Dawg]

Let's see if this formats correctly:

• Offensive Yards
• Offensive TDs
• Defensive Yards Allowed
• Defensive TDs Allowed
• Defensive TDs Scored

632 5 425 4 0 2020 LSU 44-34
208 3 478 2 0 2020 Vanderbilt 24-17
446 4 342 4 2 2020 Missouri 51-32
438 3 297 2 0 2021 Texas A&M 26-22
522 6 155 0 0 2021 Vanderbilt 45-6
438 4 216 1 0 2021 Kentucky 31-17
487 6 483 5 0 2021 Auburn 43-34
473 4 388 3 1 2022 Texas A&M 42-24
568 6 483 2 0 2022 Arkansas 40-17
370 4 331 4 0 2022 Auburn 39-33
336 3 335 3 0 2022 Ole Miss 42-22

These are the 11 SEC wins in the Leach Era. There isn't a good example of the offense sucking and the defense bailing us out for the win. In 8 of the 11 wins, we had at least 400 yards and 3 TDs, so even when the defense played well too, you can't say they bailed us out.

• The last 2 games, 2022 wins over Auburn and Ole Miss, seem really similar on paper, which is interesting because they don't seem that way in my memory. I remember thinking the offense and defense were both flat against Auburn and that they both played pretty well against Ole Miss (except when Will Rogers tried to run it in himself and failed).
• They were both awful against Vanderbilt in 2020 and we were incredibly lucky to win.

None of this is intended as a knock on Arnett. He did well as Leach's DC. I'm just defending Leach's offense.

Kinda hard to compare O and D in isolation. It takes both to win. The big Aub comeback win the O and D were not good in first half. Reverse in second. If D doesn't step up, we lose. If O doesn't produce we lose.
ae
Our D was bend don't break a lot. They gave up yards but stiffened up in the red zone. Also in today's O world, I think holding a team to 300-400 would be average vs 35-40 years ago.

[R2Dawg]

Hell, right off the top of my head I can name one. The last game Leach coached. The Egg Bowl. The defense kept kiffins offense in check most of the game. The offense had opportunities to put the game away and couldn't seal the deal. Offense handed ole miss the ball and said here ya go. Defense stopped them for the win.

There were multiple games that the defense kept it close enough despite the offense not being able to do shit. Then the offense scored just enough to win. Only because the defense kept the score low and close.

Yep and a lot of games (lot of losses) where D played their tails off but got tired for being on field all the time because O couldn't get a first down. Then in garbage time the O put up points and yards on the 2nd and 3rd team. This happened almost every loss. Those don't show up in just run the numbers. Our O was terrible in almost half the games.

[Homedawg]

Let's see if this formats correctly:

• Offensive Yards
• Offensive TDs
• Defensive Yards Allowed
• Defensive TDs Allowed
• Defensive TDs Scored

632 5 425 4 0 2020 LSU 44-34
208 3 478 2 0 2020 Vanderbilt 24-17
446 4 342 4 2 2020 Missouri 51-32
438 3 297 2 0 2021 Texas A&M 26-22
522 6 155 0 0 2021 Vanderbilt 45-6
438 4 216 1 0 2021 Kentucky 31-17
487 6 483 5 0 2021 Auburn 43-34
473 4 388 3 1 2022 Texas A&M 42-24
568 6 483 2 0 2022 Arkansas 40-17
370 4 331 4 0 2022 Auburn 39-33
336 3 335 3 0 2022 Ole Miss 42-22

These are the 11 SEC wins in the Leach Era. There isn't a good example of the offense sucking and the defense bailing us out for the win. In 8 of the 11 wins, we had at least 400 yards and 3 TDs, so even when the defense played well too, you can't say they bailed us out.

• The last 2 games, 2022 wins over Auburn and Ole Miss, seem really similar on paper, which is interesting because they don't seem that way in my memory. I remember thinking the offense and defense were both flat against Auburn and that they both played pretty well against Ole Miss (except when Will Rogers tried to run it in himself and failed).
• They were both awful against Vanderbilt in 2020 and we were incredibly lucky to win.

None of this is intended as a knock on Arnett. He did well as Leach's DC. I'm just defending Leach's offense.

Egg bowl 22 you have the score wrong and if you don't include turnovers both way it's not valid. Bc the ole miss game of 22 the offense kept giving the ball away and the defense kept stopping them. Might work out even. But that's important.

[Quaoarsking]

Egg bowl 22 you have the score wrong and if you don't include turnovers both way it's not valid. Bc the ole miss game of 22 the offense kept giving the ball away and the defense kept stopping them. Might work out even. But that's important.

Fixed the Egg Bowl score, which I transposed.

Anyway, I'll reiterate my purpose isn't to argue that the offense is the reason we won those games or to bash Arnett, it's merely to demonstrate that "Hell, when we were getting 3 yard passes on offense, his defense was winning games." is not an accurate description of the Leach Era.

[Todd4State]

Ah the 2022 Egg Bowl where the defense gave up a 99 yard TD drive to end the game but they get credit for winning the game. Thanks Randy Charlton.

[Todd4State]

I just reviewed the 11 SEC games we won under Leach and couldn't find a single example of a time where the offense was bad and the defense won the game for us.

There were examples where the offense and defense were both pretty good (not taking anything away from Arnett) and 1 game where they were both bad and we somehow won anyway (2020 Vanderbilt), but I don't think your description of "Arnett's defense winning games for Leach" stands up to scrutiny.

It doesn't stand up to scrutiny. But Arnett wears cowboy boots, cusses, and has a farm so MSU fans like him.

I remember the Georgia game in 2020 where we had a lead with an extremely outmanned team and Mr bail Leach out zero blitzed and got burned costing us the game and what would have been a historic win for MSU. So he probably lost about as many as he "saved" for us.

Your research points out why I think he is overrated though. I always felt that way about him even before Leach passed away. Now, he wasn't bad but he wasn't Joe Lee Dunn good either.

Truth is Leach really wanted Rocky Long and the two of them together would have been special. Long wanted to stay out west and retire and Long suggested Leach hire Arnett.