Football Depth Chart

[Goldendawg]

Well, you're an idiot. This ain't 1963 and we couldn't even put together a damn scout team last year. We win 5+ this year.

Well, I'm not an idiot and I was there in 1963, (We ended up 6-2-2), when a ranked OM team had to come from behind and chose to kick a tying FB rather than maybe lose to us. I am not an "expert" as some on this board may be or have been successful coaches, have better insight/connections or played at a higher level than me in many sports, but how many of our coaches since 1963 (or comparable with a 10 or 11 game regular schedule), have gone 2-10 and 0-8 under many different conditions? I am with you on the 5-7 and if things fall right, maybe a 6-6, (4-0 OOC and 2-6 SEC should be obtainable most years even for us with our history), or with a miracle 7-5 and the program is back on track(5-7 or better looking good and competent in all areas of the game). . Another 2-2 OOC and 0-8 and we have real issues in this NIL/Portal mess. I'll be there for every home game, win or lose for the 58th consecutive year with by family group and friends. Hoping for the best with wins and competitive, fun team to watch even in losses. Hail State, Class of '77, Late SuperDog Dad attended driving 4 hrs roundtrip days with a night shift job until I and my Sister came along and my son is Class of 2023. We are all true, hardcore State fans on this board. Don't know why some resort to name calling behind a keyboard when we have sometimes have different outlooks for our athletic program in various sports.


Looked it up not counting years with ties and Tyler's years with forfeits: Looks like we have now had 6 years with no wins in conference play since 1963.

Again not counting Tyler Forfeits: Looks like we now have 7 seasons with 2 or less wins since 1963.

Not easy being a State fan at times, but Hail State, as I wouldn't have been raised any other way , as I also raised my son!

[Todd4State]

While true, he left us with the worse roster in the conference going into 2024. 2023 would have been fine if he were alive.
His recruiting classes were almost entirely misses. Arnett compounded the issue.

Hard to say what our roster would have looked like in 2024 in the portal era. Coming off of back to back 8-9 win seasons likely- we probably would have been able to attract talent better especially considering how much our NIL has developed that past few years.

Well Leach left at 8-4 first. That was not his average either. Didn't he still finish with a losing overall record here? We were not about to go on this massive winning streak everyone thinks. Croom looked good in 07 too hugh? He won 8 games same as Leach. Saw how that ended. You can hold to that argument since he passed but fact is our D was on the skids since Leach came in and was about to come apart - and it did. We had got soft on OL too. Leach wasn't the answer. When are folks going to let him RIP.

Yes we are in trouble now; Arnet didn't dismantle MSU by himself in less than a year.

No Leach did not finish with a losing record here. And before someone grandstands with "SEC wins are the only ones that count!!!!" Dan Mullen had a losing record in SEC games. What Leach did here was very comparable to Dan in a short time span W/L record wise. Dan had a few seasons comparable or worse than 2021- 2011, 2013, and 2016. Dan also only had two seasons that were as good or better as 2022- 2010 and 2014. Croom only won 4 games the next season after 2007 so that's not very comparable and I don't think you want to compare Leach and Croom's W/L record here. And who was in charge of defensive recruiting? Yep. The guy that ran off Leach's recruits and is now on job four in three years. Leach has fired DC's before so I don't think that would have been an issue.

Tood, there are multiple situations leading to where we are now. We gave Lebby shit on platter and told him we wanted steak in year one. Leach won some games but recruiting went into the shitter with him, especially on defense.

More fans blaming Leach for Arnett's lack of ability to recruit. Too bad we didn't have David Turner recruiting...oh wait. Speaking of recruiting one of the QB's that Arnett ran off is now a Heisman contender at Baylor. That's who would have been running our offense this year.

So a bowl game every year and a 9 win season is dumpster fire? I know yall hated him and the QB but that is non sense. Moorhead was awful, Leach brought it back and was gonna be a consistent winner till God said otherwise. Keenum and Arnett then made Moorhead look like the Bear

Yep.

There were some valid problems with Leach. Him leaving a lot of the recruiting to Arnett and Dudek on defense wasnt a good move. However the culture and Leach himself was good enough to offset it a little bit. We would have been right where Mullen had us consistently if he were still with us. Every coach in the country has flaws. People are forgetting how bad we wanted Mullen gone at times. 2011 and 2017 were huge underachieving years. 2017 we flopped after the bama screw job and he was one foot out the door again. 2016 would be remembered as a catastrophe if it wasnt for 55-20 and running freeze off. I remember Damian Williams playing over fitz and losing to USA in shorty shorts

It's funny how MSU fans give Dan a complete pass for doing the same things other coaches did here.

If Leach were still alive, we would have won at least 15 games across 2023-24 (maybe more) and would be licking our lips at our schedule this year.

Any cursory look at his career record tells us what he would have done here long term.

And this...

The only reason some people don't like Leach is that they've gotten it in their heads that you're "supposed" to win football games by physically dominating other teams, running between the tackles and imposing your will on them. Those fans hate the idea of turning football into a cerebral game of outwitting and outscheming the opponent. It's not "manly" enough for them.

Ironically, the team was in much better physical shape under Leach than the coaches before or after him.

And also this... Fortunately Lebby runs the QB enough to make them happy. And fortunately for us that understand modern football we throw it enough to win games.

Very few of us don't like leach.
I have little doubt he would have kept us at least solid offensively.
The question would have been whether he could have gotten enough defensive guys out of the portal, because his recruiting, particularly on the defensive side, was D2 quality.

I think if it came down to it he would have fired Arnett. And I think we would have done well enough to attract defensive talent in the portal. At least as good as what we did this offseason which I think will be adequate to below average at worst.

[R2Dawg]

Hard to say what our roster would have looked like in 2024 in the portal era. Coming off of back to back 8-9 win seasons likely- we probably would have been able to attract talent better especially considering how much our NIL has developed that past few years.



No Leach did not finish with a losing record here. And before someone grandstands with "SEC wins are the only ones that count!!!!" Dan Mullen had a losing record in SEC games. What Leach did here was very comparable to Dan in a short time span W/L record wise. Dan had a few seasons comparable or worse than 2021- 2011, 2013, and 2016. Dan also only had two seasons that were as good or better as 2022- 2010 and 2014. Croom only won 4 games the next season after 2007 so that's not very comparable and I don't think you want to compare Leach and Croom's W/L record here. And who was in charge of defensive recruiting? Yep. The guy that ran off Leach's recruits and is now on job four in three years. Leach has fired DC's before so I don't think that would have been an issue.

Yep Leach was 2 games above 500 which is no where near Mullen so trying to compare Leach to Mullen is apples and oranges. Mullen was around 23-24 games over 500. Dan played way better SEC teams than Leach did. Again the one good year Leach had, we beat like 1-2 teams with a winning record and they were like barely 7-6. OM was best win at what 8-4 or something. I ain't never said SEC wins are all that matter. Croom was terrible, I've never said he wasn't, but he had one good year just like Leach. If our schedule had been like last year in 22, we'd had a losing record that year too.

[R2Dawg]

If Leach were still alive, we would have won at least 15 games across 2023-24 (maybe more) and would be licking our lips at our schedule this year.

Any cursory look at his career record tells us what he would have done here long term.

We can play this game all day. If Mullen had stayed we would have won a NC in 18. That statement is just made up but more possible that the Leach winning 15 in 23-24. Like our crappy D and Will were going to win that many? We'd had a losing season in one or both those years with a harder schedule. Leach had a cakewalk schedule the one good year.

[R2Dawg]

The only reason some people don't like Leach is that they've gotten it in their heads that you're "supposed" to win football games by physically dominating other teams, running between the tackles and imposing your will on them. Those fans hate the idea of turning football into a cerebral game of outwitting and outscheming the opponent. It's not "manly" enough for them.

Ironically, the team was in much better physical shape under Leach than the coaches before or after him.

Not true. If you think football ain't won on LOS then pick your chess team and I'll pick my dandy dozen and we'll see how that goes. You assume running the football is for dummies and passing is for smart people. Moorhead tried that out think you crap and it did't work too good. He just had some studs on both sides of the ball that made him look smarter than he was.

Leach did bring some discipline back we lost with Moorhead but we started losing a ton of talent especially on LOS. Dan played smart but he knows you have to have the dudes to win and he got them.

[R2Dawg]

Very few of us don't like leach.
I have little doubt he would have kept us at least solid offensively.
The question would have been whether he could have gotten enough defensive guys out of the portal, because his recruiting, particularly on the defensive side, was D2 quality.

True, liked many things bout Leach but some not. Recruiting and the D was really going backwards. Portal and NIL would have really done him in too the last few years even though not as bad as changing coaches did.

[1bigdawg]

The amazing thing to me about the Mullen years was the ability to recruit top defensive talent with the turnstile of defensive coordinators.

[viverlibre]

I'm not a football guy... is Luke Kromenhoek not that good? Shapen still the man?

Didn't Shapen QB the Toledo game?

You?re 💯% correct. Against such an inferior opponent, at home, a QB has to put the team on his back and ball out (at least put 3 TDs on the board). Shapen certainly has pics on Levee and many of the posters on this board. No matter, he won?t make it through the first conference game then all those first teams will be wasted as we have to get another QB ready.

[vv83]

Ole miss matters a lot. Im not one that pretends that they don?t. You can call it rent free or little brother if you want to, but that is the biggest game every single year and it is time to win it again. They have done well, caught a lucky break here and there and we have wrecked since we had an unprecedented tragedy. We are due

I agree with this post, but that wasn't what you said originally. If Lebby goes 5-7 with a loss to Ole Miss, there is no way he is getting fired this year (barring some scandal)

[vv83]

You?re ��% correct. Against such an inferior opponent, at home, a QB has to put the team on his back and ball out (at least put 3 TDs on the board). Shapen certainly has pics on Levee and many of the posters on this board. No matter, he won?t make it through the first conference game then all those first teams will be wasted as we have to get another QB ready.

The best QB is going to play. If we start KT and go 2-10 because you think a guy who was at Noxubee high 3 months ago is our best option, I'm sure you'll have the patience at the end of the season to say it was the right move to play the long game. This roster is much better than the slop we had last year, but we don't have the luxury to experiment at QB. Play the guy who has a real shot at getting us to 5 wins.

If KT or LK beat out Shapen in practice, they will play.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Well Leach left at 8-4 first. That was not his average either. Didn't he still finish with a losing overall record here? We were not about to go on this massive winning streak everyone thinks. Croom looked good in 07 too hugh? He won 8 games same as Leach. Saw how that ended. You can hold to that argument since he passed but fact is our D was on the skids since Leach came in and was about to come apart - and it did. We had got soft on OL too. Leach wasn't the answer. When are folks going to let him RIP.

Yes we are in trouble now; Arnet didn't dismantle MSU by himself in less than a year.

Leach was 19-17 with a covid year of all SEC teams as his first one. Replacing an absolute disaster of a culture wrecker Moorhead. Keenums laziness, the boosters wanting to put folks like BP back in charge, and Arnett lying put us where we are

[BuckyIsAB****]

Arnett didn't kill us in 10 months; that was already going on. Arnett inherited a mess and it got worse.

Moorhead had #1 D in nation and 3 #1 draftpicks and lost 5 games. No other team with #1 D in nation hasn't made playoffs but us. Also he had SEC all time leading QB rusher. Think about that a minute.

Leach's top 25 wins were a mirage. Almost all of those ranked teams at the time tanked before year end - see LSU game 1.

Then our 2014 season was a mirage too. The folks that were never going to like leach no matter what were a big problem. Folks were mad we were going 9-4 cause it wasnt what they wanted. Joe Moorhead was the same way

[BuckyIsAB****]

I agree with this post, but that wasn't what you said originally. If Lebby goes 5-7 with a loss to Ole Miss, there is no way he is getting fired this year (barring some scandal)

5-7 and you dont beat OM, I am out. I dont mean shit but still.

[Todd4State]

Yep Leach was 2 games above 500 which is no where near Mullen so trying to compare Leach to Mullen is apples and oranges. Mullen was around 23-24 games over 500. Dan played way better SEC teams than Leach did. Again the one good year Leach had, we beat like 1-2 teams with a winning record and they were like barely 7-6. OM was best win at what 8-4 or something. I ain't never said SEC wins are all that matter. Croom was terrible, I've never said he wasn't, but he had one good year just like Leach. If our schedule had been like last year in 22, we'd had a losing record that year too.

I don't think you want to play the "SEC teams were better when Dan was our coach" card when the best team Dan beat in 2014 only won 8 games. Dan was over .500 solely on beating OOC teams which he didn't have to deal with the P5 qualifier for most of his time at MSU.

2020 wasn't a good year but it had a very memorable win over LSU and we did win our bowl game in a very atypical year for everyone. We also would have had a fifth win over Georgia had someone not decided to blitz the house against Georgia on the last critical drive.
2021 we had the largest comeback in school history.
2022 we won 9 games and Leach was one of the few to beat Lane in Oxford. Very underrated win if you ask me.

So even in his "bad years" Leach at least had a very positive memorable moment. Quick- what was the memorable moment for MSU fans of 2012?

[Todd4State]

The amazing thing to me about the Mullen years was the ability to recruit top defensive talent with the turnstile of defensive coordinators.

Probably because most of his assistants that were in good with boosters were on that side of the ball. And Tony Hughes was pretty constant from the beginning.

[Todd4State]

Not true. If you think football ain't won on LOS then pick your chess team and I'll pick my dandy dozen and we'll see how that goes. You assume running the football is for dummies and passing is for smart people. Moorhead tried that out think you crap and it did't work too good. He just had some studs on both sides of the ball that made him look smarter than he was.

Leach did bring some discipline back we lost with Moorhead but we started losing a ton of talent especially on LOS. Dan played smart but he knows you have to have the dudes to win and he got them.

Moorhead was actually pretty run heavy here. Moreso than probably anywhere else. Losing talent on the LOS? You mean like Charles Cross? And meanwhile Dan recruited the LOS so well we had to in separate years move a TE to OT and a DT to OT because we literally had NO ONE else and no other choice.

[Bothrops]

Im not sure Leach would have wanted to carry on much longer in this entitled player environment. He probably would have retired earlier because of it. I would have never believed college football would have jumped off the diving board in the dark like it has, had you told me ten years ago. It still blows my mind.