We getting all excited about the QB transfer

[Cooterpoot]

You are ignoring the fact that Leach recruited those "untalented" and poorly ranked WRs. I would not be concerned about our WRs recruiting ranking if Leach had identified them and recruited them. But just because he can be productive with some poorly ranked WRs doesn't mean he can make any poorly ranked WR productive.

I think he's going to help our WRs, but the talent may just not be there.

He recruited "his WRs". He didn't recruit guys that were slow as hell and couldn't a cold. How many games did we lose Moorhead's first year on dropped passes alone? With a damn good WR coach. Cost us at least two games.
That's not coaching. That's bad WR play.

[smootness]

They're bad. Some were bad under three different QBs and two coaching staffs.
Mike Leach recruits better WRs. He knows what he likes and gets them. He'll get better players here than other places he's been, but we have the worst WRs returning of any SEC school as far as experienced WRs go.

We will have WRs put up numbers. Period. It's what Leach's offense does. How good those WR actually are will be harder to determine, but it also won't matter quite as much. The offense will put up passing numbers.

[smootness]

How many games did we lose Moorhead's first year on dropped passes alone? With a damn good WR coach. Cost us at least two games.
That's not coaching. That's bad WR play.

And which of those WRs are still here?

[SheltonChoked]

You are ignoring the fact that Leach recruited those "untalented" and poorly ranked WRs. I would not be concerned about our WRs recruiting ranking if Leach had identified them and recruited them. But just because he can be productive with some poorly ranked WRs doesn't mean he can make any poorly ranked WR productive.

I think he's going to help our WRs, but the talent may just not be there.

I'm not ignoring it. I asking what the basis is of " Leach has never has as bad a WR as we have now" when he's never had a team full of "high ranked" WR.

Do our WR's fit his system? Will not know until the fall. But based on who he had at WSU and who he had at TTU (which is too long ago for good recruiting rankings)

But he did steal a guy from Abilene Christian with no other offers and had him catch more passes last year than any MSU receiver not named Fred Ross for more yards than any MSU receiver ever.



2012 WSU
Marks 0.9358
Wilson 0.8333
Meyers 0.7853
D Williams 0.8248
Ratliff 0.8622
K Williams 0.8368
Simone 0.8685
Bartolone 0.7667

2 of these guys would be on our top 10 year catches list, neither of them the Top rated guy.

So again, Cite?

[SheltonChoked]

They're bad. Some were bad under three different QBs and two coaching staffs.
Mike Leach recruits better WRs. He knows what he likes and gets them. He'll get better players here than other places he's been, but we have the worst WRs returning of any SEC school as far as experienced WRs go.

The fact they played under 3 different QB's and 3 different WR coaches, with running based systems did not help.

Read about what Leach does to have them learn to catch and run. (i.e., the beach and the tennis ball machine)

Also, it take reps to get better. Do you think Dan's or joes read option QB or RPO systems let the WR catch passes on every play in practice? 50% of plays?

Leach has never gotten top end WR's (hard to recruit to Pullman and Lubbock), but his guys have put up big numbers.

[Ari Gold]

Ari, any idea on a time line we can expect an announcement? Or is he planning on taking any other OV's before deciding? We have an in-home with him some time this week I believe. Maybe he commits before then or shortly after that in-home.

I Would guess within the next week or so.

[Cooterpoot]

The fact they played under 3 different QB's and 3 different WR coaches, with running based systems did not help.

Read about what Leach does to have them learn to catch and run. (i.e., the beach and the tennis ball machine)

Also, it take reps to get better. Do you think Dan's or joes read option QB or RPO systems let the WR catch passes on every play in practice? 50% of plays?

Leach has never gotten top end WR's (hard to recruit to Pullman and Lubbock), but his guys have put up big numbers.

Those low end guys are playing in the NFL. That tells me Leach knows how to recruit WRs. He didn't sign a bunch of bad players that can't catch. Those guys were undervalued because they're successful in the NFL too. Not just Leach's system. You can't make bad players good. Not even the best coaches do that. Our receivers will get more catches etc. but they'll still drop more too. They'll still be slow. They won't be NFL guys. Heath and guys we haven't seen yet will be our best. Mitchell will still disappear. Williams will still be too slow. These guys have been in a college program for a few years. They are who they are.

[smootness]

Still crickets on the Costello visit. I'm assuming we arent getting him at this point since no one will say anything at all.

Didn't he just visit this past weekend?

I wouldn't assume anything. It's perfectly reasonable to expect someone in that position to at least go home and think/talk it over before making a firm decision.

[SheltonChoked]

You can't teach good hands just like you can't teach QB accuracy. There's not one quality WR returning this year. Not one. We need Heath to take over and Tulu to get touches. Our WRs are criminally slow minus Peyton.
And Peyton didn't catch many balls his last year of Juco. You guys can argue a lot of things, but quality WR talent on our roster isn't one of them. We need a transfer to go with Heath really. Take off the maroon glasses and you'll see. With that said, we still win 6 games next year.

BULLSHIT.

Catching is a skill. You can get better at it with practice. Yes some are naturally better than others, but it can be taught.

Jerry Rice caught bricks thrown from his dad, a bricklayer, as a kid.

ODB and Larry Fitzgerald used Tennis balls

Leach uses Tennis balls.

And when they finish sprinting, they move to Leach's tennis-ball bazookas. A year of catching tiny fuzzy balls fired at their chests at 60 m.p.h. has turned many young men who got to Texas Tech with hands of stone into glue-fingered receivers.

https://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/04/m...very-deep.html

[SheltonChoked]

Those low end guys are playing in the NFL. That tells me Leach knows how to recruit WRs. He didn't sign a bunch of bad players that can't catch. Those guys were undervalued because they're successful in the NFL too. Not just Leach's system. You can't make bad players good. Not even the best coaches do that. Our receivers will get more catches etc. but they'll still drop more too. They'll still be slow. They won't be NFL guys. Heath and guys we haven't seen yet will be our best. Mitchell will still disappear. Williams will still be too slow. These guys have been in a college program for a few years. They are who they are.

Or maybe he recruits speed and teaches them how to catch.

At least that's what he says he does...

It's apparent to me you never watched TTU, WSU or any other Leach team play.

Leach uses at least an 8 man WR rotation. And he plans to throw the ball to all 5 skill positions equally each game.

So we will see all of those guys getting career numbers in catches and yards. Period.

[Johnson85]

He recruited "his WRs". He didn't recruit guys that were slow as hell and couldn't a cold. How many games did we lose Moorhead's first year on dropped passes alone? With a damn good WR coach. Cost us at least two games.
That's not coaching. That's bad WR play.

If he recruited guys that were fast and could catch, they would have been ranked higher. It's not like it's particularly hard to see if a guy can run fast or catch a ball thrown to him. I suspect to most people other than leach, the guys he recruited looked indistinguishable from the guys on our team coming out of high school.

[dawgday166]

BULLSHIT.

Catching is a skill. You can get better at it with practice. Yes some are naturally better than others, but it can be taught.

Jerry Rice caught bricks thrown from his dad, a bricklayer, as a kid.

ODB and Larry Fitzgerald used Tennis balls

Leach uses Tennis balls.


https://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/04/m...very-deep.html

Or maybe he recruits speed and teaches them how to catch.

At least that's what he says he does...

It's apparent to me you never watched TTU, WSU or any other Leach team play.

Leach uses at least an 8 man WR rotation. And he plans to throw the ball to all 5 skill positions equally each game.

So we will see all of those guys getting career numbers in catches and yards. Period.

I agree with most of what you said here. I think Leach will coach them up, but a couple or maybe more could be processed perhaps. But what's left will be coached up better than they were. Will they turn into LSU or Bama receiver ... most likely not.

I mean hell ... Steve Spurrier Jr. is one of their coaches so you know they gonna get better ... right ****

[dawgs]

Those low end guys are playing in the NFL. That tells me Leach knows how to recruit WRs. He didn't sign a bunch of bad players that can't catch. Those guys were undervalued because they're successful in the NFL too. Not just Leach's system. You can't make bad players good. Not even the best coaches do that. Our receivers will get more catches etc. but they'll still drop more too. They'll still be slow. They won't be NFL guys. Heath and guys we haven't seen yet will be our best. Mitchell will still disappear. Williams will still be too slow. These guys have been in a college program for a few years. They are who they are.

I disagree that coaches don't matter. It's not all development and it's not all inherent talent either. It's a combo of both. Some guys have more raw talent to succeed in any system and some need the right coach and system to highlight their abilities. I'd always take the talent if given my druthers because talent + coaching is when you turn into a natty caliber program, but just cause a 3* guy turns into a NFL 1st round pick doesn't mean the recruiting rankings missed the guy, it's that the right system and coach maximized his abilities and put him on the NFL map. Some guys also have late growth spurts/physical development that helps too.

[Jarius]

Those low end guys are playing in the NFL. That tells me Leach knows how to recruit WRs. He didn't sign a bunch of bad players that can't catch. Those guys were undervalued because they're successful in the NFL too. Not just Leach's system. You can't make bad players good. Not even the best coaches do that. Our receivers will get more catches etc. but they'll still drop more too. They'll still be slow. They won't be NFL guys. Heath and guys we haven't seen yet will be our best. Mitchell will still disappear. Williams will still be too slow. These guys have been in a college program for a few years. They are who they are.

Leach specifically says in his book that he can take wide receivers and teach them how to catch if they are willing to work. Says he can't take a non accurate qb and teach him how To be accurate. Can improve accuracy slightly but not a lot. If he were worried about our receivers he would be loading up on jucos or grad transfers at that spot.

[mparkerfd20]

Didn't he just visit this past weekend?

I wouldn't assume anything. It's perfectly reasonable to expect someone in that position to at least go home and think/talk it over before making a firm decision.

That's fair, but until Rosebowl's article earlier there had been no info on if it went well or anything.

[dawgday166]

That's fair, but until Rosebowl's article earlier there had been no info on if it went well or anything.

It went well per Rosie and others. Leaving Palo Alto for Starkville is like night/day difference. It's just one year tho and probably under as good a QB developer as there is in FBS.

[Spiderman]

It?s better than 50/50 we get him...

I'd say 90/10. ( Little Birdie)

[Spiderman]

You can't teach good hands just like you can't teach QB accuracy. There's not one quality WR returning this year. Not one. We need Heath to take over and Tulu to get touches. Our WRs are criminally slow minus Peyton.
And Peyton didn't catch many balls his last year of Juco. You guys can argue a lot of things, but quality WR talent on our roster isn't one of them. We need a transfer to go with Heath really. Take off the maroon glasses and you'll see. With that said, we still win 6 games next year.

Leach say he can. And speed wise you are forgetting Pruitt and Torbor, who RS'd last year.

[Tbonewannabe]

It went well per Rosie and others. Leaving Palo Alto for Starkville is like night/day difference. It's just one year tho and probably under as good a QB developer as there is in FBS.

But you are also talking about living in Starkville for 6 months, not really a year. It isn't like he is deciding where to live for 4 or 5 years like incoming freshmen. I could live anywhere in the US if it gave me a great chance at the NFL. Also, what will he truly be missing out on while trying to be a SEC QB? Starkville has bars and restaurants just like anywhere else. It isn't like he requires a Target or mall to be a SEC QB. Our athletic facilities might be better than Stanford's facilities also.

[Johnson85]

But you are also talking about living in Starkville for 6 months, not really a year. It isn't like he is deciding where to live for 4 or 5 years like incoming freshmen. I could live anywhere in the US if it gave me a great chance at the NFL. Also, what will he truly be missing out on while trying to be a SEC QB? Starkville has bars and restaurants just like anywhere else. It isn't like he requires a Target or mall to be a SEC QB. Our athletic facilities might be better than Stanford's facilities also.

Plus you are talking about what he is missing out on for roughly one night a week I'm guessing. Maybe more during the summer I guess. But generally, I don't think college football players get to go to the bar much during the week anymore. The team probably wasn't very disciplined when I was in school and I can only think of one guy that actually played that was a regular at the bars on Thursday night. Other than that, they pretty much got Saturday night, and every other day was pretty much consumed between class, workouts, study hall, and film session.