2020 and 2021 may be rough

[Walkerhill]

Leach has gotten almost unbelievable results at both of his stops but he did not elevate the program above average historical results until the 3rd year at TT and 4th at WSU.

One might assume that is due to the learning curve on the offense or need to recruit suitable personnel but it sounds much more like an acculturation period to establish the culture of discipline that he is seeking.

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Here are comments from the WSU qb on the transition from his perspective:
Halliday: It was definitely a culture change. I really liked playing for Leach. We have a great relationship now and talk quite a bit. I think that first year was just a culture shock for guys. There was more expected from you from the Wulff-to-Leach change and some struggled with that. We obviously weren?t winning much that 2012 year. Things spiraled out of control. I do think Leach could have handled some things differently, especially with the whole Marquess Wilson thing. Other than that, I think he did as good as he could have done. He walked into a tough situation. He was used to a talent and effort level at Texas Tech. We were not a well-oiled machine.

Truthfully, there were just some guys who did not care enough about winning to be able to play under Mike Leach. A lot has been made of that. Leach did everything he could. Again, Marquess could have been handled differently, but Leach came into a tough spot and it?s a football thing all across. They hired a new staff and they wanted guys who aligned with their ideals. I was young at the time and was thrilled he was our coach. I wanted to be a part of what he was doing and loved his outlook for the team. I think we did a lot of positive things together. We were the first team to go to a bowl game in 10 years and we broke basically every record you could. I think we helped springboard the program into what it is now.
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The change management and expectations management challenges promise to be just as difficult in our locker room if rumors are to be believed.

Buckle up for a bumpy ride but we will come out on the other side a better program. I think for the next 2 years extending the bowl streak is a reasonable goal.

[Walkerhill]

Alternative view, if the team gets on board quickly and/or Leach has learned from the trials of his first 2 stops and can manage the culture change more effectively, then he has proven he can rack up the Ws once the team rallies around his vision.

This team needs player buy-in on leadership standards, work ethic, and discipline stat.

[ShotgunDawg]

I think we could certainly be better in year 3, but I don't see any comparison to what Leach is walking into now vs what he walked into at Wazzou.

- This program has been to 10 straight bowl games.

- MSU has top 25 talent.

What do you mean by rough?

Is 6-8 wins rough?

Context matters here.

[Walkerhill]

I think we could certainly be better in year 3, but I don't see any comparison to what Leach is walking into now vs what he walked into at Wazzou.

- This program has been to 10 straight bowl games.

- MSU has top 25 talent.

What do you mean by rough?

Is 6-8 wins rough?

Context matters here.

Great question - by rough I mean first there may be some turbulence in the locker room, made apparent by player defections and media leaks. Leach was falsely accused of abuse in both places he has worked.

By rough I also mean that we will be reaching for 6 unless we coalesce better than the previous stops.

After Moorhead I think our nominal case is this past year, stretch for 6 with a bowl game loss. We will not surpass that until we get player development back on track and unify In the locker room around a winning culture.

TT won 6-7 the 3 years prior to Leach and then 7 both of his first 2 years. At Wazoo they had won 2 and 4 and then he won 3-6-3 over 3 years. A similar glide path for us looks like 6-7 wins next 2 years and then a jump.

Do not get me wrong. I would love to be pleasantly surprised. I am just saying, Cohen got us exactly what we asked for, a disciplinarian who wins. Give him time to build it back up even if it takes a couple years.

[Coach34]

Rough means this:

We will be rebuilding our D in 2020 after losing alot of good players for the 2nd season in a row. We lose our best pass-rusher and 3/4 of our 2-deep at LB. We lose our entire starting Secondary from Game 1 last season. The Secondary got a little experience in 2019- but by and large is still green. We are depending on jucos for a pass rush because we lost our best DE and our other starting DE had 2 sacks in 2019. To say our D may struggle next year on D is putting it mildly.

Offensively we are about to do a 180 in scheme. We ran the ball 60% of the time in 2019. Those days are gone. That kind of change takes time to adjust to. Plus- we are not even sure who the QB will be and other things that factor in.

Until we see how things shake out- we just dont know. Shrader could get run off in April or suspended, we could have drug tests hamper participation, lots of things yet to be decided. 6 wins for us in 2020 would be a huge win. Less than 6 is 50/50 and could easily happen

[HancockCountyDog]

- MSU has top 25 talent.

I don?t see how you can say we have top 25 talent next year.

I?m not sure who we have on the team that is a top 3 round player in the 2021 draft.

[ShotgunDawg]

I don?t see how you can say we have top 25 talent next year.

I?m not sure who we have on the team that is a top 3 round player in the 2021 draft.

We've signed more 4 stars in the past 3 years than in any 3 year point in our history.

You may be right about the top 3 round thing, but we'll have lots of young, good talent

[Coach34]

I don?t see how you can say we have top 25 talent next year.

I?m not sure who we have on the team that is a top 3 round player in the 2021 draft.

I'm not sure who we have on the team that will be drafted in 2021 period? Hill if he returns? Maybe Thompson? Murphy if he has an awesome year.

[ShotgunDawg]

Rough means this:

We will be rebuilding our D in 2020 after losing alot of good players for the 2nd season in a row. We lose our best pass-rusher and 3/4 of our 2-deep at LB. We lose our entire starting Secondary from Game 1 last season. The Secondary got a little experience in 2019- but by and large is still green. We are depending on jucos for a pass rush because we lost our best DE and our other starting DE had 2 sacks in 2019. To say our D may struggle next year on D is putting it mildly.

Offensively we are about to do a 180 in scheme. We ran the ball 60% of the time in 2019. Those days are gone. That kind of change takes time to adjust to. Plus- we are not even sure who the QB will be and other things that factor in.

Until we see how things shake out- we just dont know. Shrader could get run off in April or suspended, we could have drug tests hamper participation, lots of things yet to be decided. 6 wins for us in 2020 would be a huge win. Less than 6 is 50/50 and could easily happen

You make good points.

It'll be interesting to see how it goes.

[ShotgunDawg]

I'm not sure who we have on the team that will be drafted in 2021 period? Hill if he returns? Maybe Thompson? Murphy if he has an awesome year.

Wild how we go through these talent cycles. Wish we could somehow stack players

[deadheaddawg]

I think we could certainly be better in year 3, but I don't see any comparison to what Leach is walking into now vs what he walked into at Wazzou.

- This program has been to 10 straight bowl games.

- MSU has top 25 talent.

What do you mean by rough?

Is 6-8 wins rough?

Context matters here.

Context of the league matters too.

There is no comparison between the leagues he walked into at Washington and the SEC

I think leach may end up being amazing for us, I just hope people have rational expectations in the beginning

[Dawgfan77]

We ran because the kids couldn?t pick up the offense

[DLGDawg]

I don?t see how you can say we have top 25 talent next year.

I?m not sure who we have on the team that is a top 3 round player in the 2021 draft.

At 5-7 or 6-6, that's OK. IF we see a change and can see the improvement. Something to hang our hat on. When Dan got here, we won 5 games that first year. BUT you could absolutely tell we were getting better. I think that's what all of us are looking for in the fall of 2020.

[ShotgunDawg]

Context of the league matters too.

There is no comparison between the leagues he walked into at Washington and the SEC

I think leach may end up being amazing for us, I just hope people have rational expectations in the beginning

There is no competition change to get to 8 wins. New Mexico, NC State, Arkansas, Tulane, Mizzou, KY, & Ole Miss are no better or different than the type of teams Leach was facing the Pac 12 & he'll be facing them with more talent than he's ever had.

NOW, the scheme change, culture issues, etc probably won't allow us to win 8 games, but that doesn't change the fact that there are 8 teams on our schedule that are not a competition bump from what Leach is used to seeing.

If he goes above 8 wins, then he would've had to beat A&M or Auburn, which are about as good as Oregon, who Wazzou lost to this season 37-35 with the 70th best roster in the country as ranked by 247.

I don't know if we'll even be any good next year, but to say that 9 games on the schedule are dramatically harder than what he faced in the PAC 12 is incorrect

[ShotgunDawg]

At 5-7 or 6-6, that's OK. IF we see a change and can see the improvement. Something to hang our hat on. When Dan got here, we won 5 games that first year. BUT you could absolutely tell we were getting better. I think that's what all of us are looking for in the fall of 2020.

5-7 would be hideous with our schedule.

[99jc]

There is no competition change to get to 8 wins. New Mexico, NC State, Arkansas, Tulane, Mizzou, KY, & Ole Miss are no better or different than the type of teams Leach was facing the Pac 12 & he'll be facing them with more talent than he's ever had.

NOW, the scheme change, culture issues, etc probably won't allow us to win 8 games, but that doesn't change the fact that there are 8 teams on our schedule that are not a competition bump from what Leach is used to seeing.

If he goes above 8 wins, then he would've had to beat A&M or Auburn, which are about as good as Oregon, who Wazzou lost to this season 37-35 with the 70th best roster in the country as ranked by 247.

I don't know if we'll even be any good next year, but to say that 9 games on the schedule are dramatically harder than what he faced in the PAC 12 is incorrect

This is how I see it also...I was right about Moorhead sucking from the day we hired him I think Leach is that good I expect 8-9 wins withe the bowl game included.

[ShotgunDawg]

This is how I see it also...I was right about Moorhead sucking from the day we hired him I think Leach is that good I expect 8-9 wins withe the bowl game included.

There are going to be hiccups until he gets the right type of players at each position, so I doubt we win 8 next year, even though the schedule says it's possible.

That being said, going 5-7 or even 6-6 with this schedule would be a dis-appointment.

I think we win 7. I'm ok with 6 but 6 better come with some close losses & a show that we're clearly moving in the right direction

[Coach34]

Man you guys are nuts. Thinking we can win 8 or 9 in 2020 is hilarious. We will be closer to 3 than 9. Wow

[ShotgunDawg]

Man you guys are nuts. Thinking we can win 8 or 9 in 2020 is hilarious. We will be closer to 3 than 9. Wow

Look at the schedule.

You're acting like this is a complete rebuild.

We may not have our best roster, but I don't agree at all with that

[Todd4State]

2021 schedule is pretty favorable.

Egg Bowl, Alabama, LSU, and Kentucky in Starkville.

Auburn, Texas A&M who loses a ton after 2020, still rebuilding but probably better Arkansas, and Vanderbilt on the road.

NC State in Starkville. La Tech, at Memphis and a FCS team.