I had it confirmed for me....

[BrunswickDawg]

If nothing else, you have to negotiate how much of his salary can be offset by taking another job. I doubt our administration is dumb enough to give a brand new coach who has never had a P5 job a fully guaranteed contract with no offset language. Jimbo might have a contract like that but A&M was pretty desperate to get him.

We are the only SEC schools that are limited to 4 year contracts. The reason other schools have defined buyouts is because they make these ridiculous 6-10 year commitments locking up $25+ Million. It makes sense for them to limit their damages, and at the same time provide an out for the coach. The 4 year limit on our contracts essentially serves the same purpose.

[Tbonewannabe]

What the hell is wrong with some of you? You take what one person has written in an article and run with it as absolute fact. How often are articles like this void of facts? They have gaping holes factually more often than not. Also, do you seriously believe if we shitcan his ass this year a check for 9 million must be written right then and there? Unless we have the dumbest of the dumb handling coaches contracts , and we do not, a 9 mil check will not be owed upon termination.

At worst, he is paid for the next 3 years according to his contract. He would get paid just like he was actually coaching here and that is the worst outcome of firing him. So you are correct, we wouldn't cut him a $9 Mil check.

[Tbonewannabe]

We are the only SEC schools that are limited to 4 year contracts. The reason other schools have defined buyouts is because they make these ridiculous 6-10 year commitments locking up $25+ Million. It makes sense for them to limit their damages, and at the same time provide an out for the coach. The 4 year limit on our contracts essentially serves the same purpose.

Just curious and I am not just asking you but how does someone like Satterfield or PJ Fleck has their total contract and buyout. How often do coaches get 6-10 year deals, is it the norm?

[Really Clark?]

Just curious and I am not just asking you but how does someone like Satterfield or PJ Fleck has their total contract and buyout. How often do coaches get 6-10 year deals, is it the norm?

Here is a report for Fleck’s contract and buyout

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.freep.com/amp/97738800

[Dawg-gone-dawgs]

[Tbonewannabe]

Here is a report for Fleck’s contract and buyout

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.freep.com/amp/97738800

So he got 5 years at roughly 3.5 per year averaged. It looks like his buyout to take another job is around $3 Mil since he has 2 years off his contract with the buyout being $1 Mil per year of contract remaining. So PJ Fleck got 1 year longer of a contract and his buyout if Minnesota fires him was for half of the total contract. This contract makes more sense than the supposed 4 years fully guaranteed contract that is being thrown around. It makes me doubt the whole pay Moorhead $9 Mil scenario especially since he underachieved his first year.

[Cowbell]

At this point, we would be better off paying the man and not even replacing him with a high dollar man. Just someone that can organize this chaos at all. You guys may call me crazy but this is going to get worse before it gets better. We are about to get kicked in the teeth in recruiting. Save this post.

[BeastMan]

If he misses a bowl that $9M will be peanuts compared to what MSU will lose next year. We?re talking tens of millions in lost revenue. And some of y?all have no idea how buyouts work and it shows when you post this stuff. The buyouts are NEGOTIATED. JoMo wouldn?t get handed a check for $9.5M. That number is paid out over YEARS and there are several factors that would mitigate the amount such as new employment. If JoMo was canned he won?t receive $9.5 because he?ll get another job and even if he did he?d get it over 5 years, maybe more. So you?re talking $2M a year max to get rid of him vs losing $20M next year if he finishes rough. And if we count lost revenue in Starkville the town that number will get much bigger. So if you?re one of these people saying it can?t or shouldn?t be done for financial reasons, stop, because you have no idea what you?re talking about.

Now, where you could get in to trouble is if the NEXT coach is a dud and you had to fire him in 2 season then you?re looking at paying 2 buyouts simultaneously. That would hurt no matter how they are structured.

Further, what?s your solution to getting that buyout down? Not extending him? Lmao what a vote of confidence that would be. That would be a dead man walking situation.

If JoMo gets to a bowl and beats OM he deserves another year regardless if I think he?s not the guy. If he goes 4-8 he has to go and if you think otherwise, you don?t understand anything about the business of CFB.

[TrapGame]

At this point, we would be better off paying the man and not even replacing him with a high dollar man. Just someone that can organize this chaos at all. You guys may call me crazy but this is going to get worse before it gets better. We are about to get kicked in the teeth in recruiting. Save this post.

Yeah, and Bartoo is comparing him to Dabo in the sense that Clemson gave him time and didn't run him off. We are not even remotely the same team in respect to physicality and discipline that we were under Mullen. That's a culture instilled by Moorhead. It's unacceptable. Yet, "This was to be expected." by Bartoo and his Voodoo Matrix. So, the business gets handed over to a new CEO and within two years its ridden in the ground and stock prices plummet. But, keep him another year or two and things will even out. No.

[TrapGame]

If JoMo gets to a bowl and beats OM he deserves another year regardless if I think he?s not the guy. If he goes 4-8 he has to go and if you think otherwise, you don?t understand anything about the business of CFB.

This. Bottom line.

[Tbonewannabe]

Yeah, and Bartoo is comparing him to Dabo in the sense that Clemson gave him time and didn't run him off. We are not even remotely the same team in respect to physicality and discipline that we were under Mullen. That's a culture instilled by Moorhead. It's unacceptable. Yet, "This was to be expected." by Bartoo and his Voodoo Matrix. So, the business gets handed over to a new CEO and within two years its ridden in the ground and stock prices plummet. But, keep him another year or two and things will even out. No.

This is what some people that don't follow MSU closely aren't seeing. Some guys like Doering that watch SEC football are talking about how the program is going backwards. Now, I don't know if they think Joe can correct it or not but we are getting to the tipping point to where it will be a lot longer road back to where we were with Mullen. By next year, you won't have many players on the team that actually remember the culture of Relentless Effort and it will be Joe's half ass effort but concentration on Execution.

I am not sure if Joe can turn it around with hiring a new S&C coach along with some other key hires. The bottom line is that Joe is coaching for his job for the rest of the year. No one expects to compete with Bama but we better not get dominated like we did at UT on the LOS except by Bama. I will say that UT has looked a lot better but our problem is that we have looked like we are getting worse as the year goes on except for about 2 quarters of the LSU game. Other than that, we are a worse team today compared to the UK game.

[Johnson85]

If he misses a bowl that $9M will be peanuts compared to what MSU will lose next year. We?re talking tens of millions in lost revenue. And some of y?all have no idea how buyouts work and it shows when you post this stuff. The buyouts are NEGOTIATED. JoMo wouldn?t get handed a check for $9.5M. That number is paid out over YEARS and there are several factors that would mitigate the amount such as new employment. If JoMo was canned he won?t receive $9.5 because he?ll get another job and even if he did he?d get it over 5 years, maybe more. So you?re talking $2M a year max to get rid of him vs losing $20M next year if he finishes rough. And if we count lost revenue in Starkville the town that number will get much bigger. So if you?re one of these people saying it can?t or shouldn?t be done for financial reasons, stop, because you have no idea what you?re talking about.

This is not exactly right. There is almost certainly a contract term that specifies what the buyout is. There may be negotiations as a matter of practice, but what those negotiations entail is going to be heavily dictated by what the contract says. If the contract says Joe Mo gets the full remaining contract less new earnings, then the negotiation will be how much he gets how quickly, and how much it is reduced or not for new earnings. So if the article is correct and he is guaranteed the remaining contract, we might negotiation to pay half immediately and not take into account any future earnings. Then he'd get money now rather than over several years, he wouldn't be "penalized" for a new job, and we probably get a good discount b/c nobody is going to pay him $1.5 to be a coordinator or head coach after this performance, so we're probably saving money over what we otherwise would have paid. But if I were JoMO, it would take more than half immediately. MSU is not a credit risk and he's probably not about to make big bucks in his next job, so there's not much incentive for him to take a haircut in exchange for an immediate payment. Maybe if it is customary and his agent tells him it will hurt him in his next negotiation if he holds out for all of it, but based on his performance, Joe Mo may think this is his last big paycheck and want to cash all of it.

Now, where you could get in to trouble is if the NEXT coach is a dud and you had to fire him in 2 season then you?re looking at paying 2 buyouts simultaneously. That would hurt no matter how they are structured.

This is the crux. If we knew we had a successful coach waiting in the wings, then stroking a $9M check tomorrow would be a bargain. The challenge is that if you make two bad hires in a row, it makes it even harder for donors to stomach the buyout the second time, knowing that a third time might be around the corner. That is the big thing in JoMo's favor for coming back next year.

Further, what?s your solution to getting that buyout down? Not extending him? Lmao what a vote of confidence that would be. That would be a dead man walking situation.

If JoMo gets to a bowl and beats OM he deserves another year regardless if I think he?s not the guy. If he goes 4-8 he has to go and if you think otherwise, you don?t understand anything about the business of CFB.

If Cohen extended JoMo after next year and kept his buyout at the full value of the contract, he needs to be fired. That is absolutely shitty negotiating. AFter last year's performance, you offer to extend him but you keep the buyout the same. Maybe you sweeten by half a million or even a million if you are worried it's going to sour the relationship to do nothing; you don't want to have him turn it around but then be hell bent on getting out of town b/c of the prior negotiations. But if JoMO turns down an offer like that, you just bite the bullet and don't extend. If a head coach is willing to voluntarily handicap himself in recruiting like that, then you know the answer is you have hired the wrong guy and you need to keep it as cheap as possible to fire him.

[Cooterpoot]

Regardless of what happens the remainder of the year, John Cohen screwed the freaking pooch on this hire. That extension was a terrible move. John is failing as AD. Bad hires, poor marketing, probation from a cheating scandal, poor game day management etc. He needs to figure shit out as much as Jo.

[gtowndawg]

I'm just ready for the season to be over so I can forget this mess Joe calls football.

[Tbonewannabe]

This is not exactly right. There is almost certainly a contract term that specifies what the buyout is. There may be negotiations as a matter of practice, but what those negotiations entail is going to be heavily dictated by what the contract says. If the contract says Joe Mo gets the full remaining contract less new earnings, then the negotiation will be how much he gets how quickly, and how much it is reduced or not for new earnings. So if the article is correct and he is guaranteed the remaining contract, we might negotiation to pay half immediately and not take into account any future earnings. Then he'd get money now rather than over several years, he wouldn't be "penalized" for a new job, and we probably get a good discount b/c nobody is going to pay him $1.5 to be a coordinator or head coach after this performance, so we're probably saving money over what we otherwise would have paid. But if I were JoMO, it would take more than half immediately. MSU is not a credit risk and he's probably not about to make big bucks in his next job, so there's not much incentive for him to take a haircut in exchange for an immediate payment. Maybe if it is customary and his agent tells him it will hurt him in his next negotiation if he holds out for all of it, but based on his performance, Joe Mo may think this is his last big paycheck and want to cash all of it.

This is the crux. If we knew we had a successful coach waiting in the wings, then stroking a $9M check tomorrow would be a bargain. The challenge is that if you make two bad hires in a row, it makes it even harder for donors to stomach the buyout the second time, knowing that a third time might be around the corner. That is the big thing in JoMo's favor for coming back next year.

If Cohen extended JoMo after next year and kept his buyout at the full value of the contract, he needs to be fired. That is absolutely shitty negotiating. AFter last year's performance, you offer to extend him but you keep the buyout the same. Maybe you sweeten by half a million or even a million if you are worried it's going to sour the relationship to do nothing; you don't want to have him turn it around but then be hell bent on getting out of town b/c of the prior negotiations. But if JoMO turns down an offer like that, you just bite the bullet and don't extend. If a head coach is willing to voluntarily handicap himself in recruiting like that, then you know the answer is you have hired the wrong guy and you need to keep it as cheap as possible to fire him.

This is kind of where UT is at now. They probably can't afford to fire Pruitt while they are still paying Jones. Of course you can also look at a 60% of capacity stadium against MSU and figure out how much of a hit you will take in 2020 ticket sales and merchandise. This is kind of where MSU is now. If Joe finishes with a 4-8 record then a Financial Analyst needs to figure up what the expected loss in Revenue from ticket sales and merchandise looks like. Then you also look at the loss in Revenue to the City of Starkville from the reduced customer base. If you hire correctly and get an influx of optimism then you might increase Revenue even with paying a buyout.

[BeastMan]

This is not exactly right. There is almost certainly a contract term that specifies what the buyout is. There may be negotiations as a matter of practice, but what those negotiations entail is going to be heavily dictated by what the contract says. If the contract says Joe Mo gets the full remaining contract less new earnings, then the negotiation will be how much he gets how quickly,

That’s literally my whole point. He would not get a check for $9.5M. For discussion sake let’s say he gets the full 9.5 paid evenly over 5 years. The 1.9M a year paid out is more than worth it if you make a good hire and ticket sales go back up. If we don’t finish strong we’re going to see ticket sales go in the toilet and they are already trending down. Further, if we retain JoMo and you look at our schedule next year, it’s not going to be a big season. That means more 11am kickoffs. Low season ticket sales + 11am kickoffs = really bad attendance = huge revenue loss. At a minimum you mitigate that revenue loss with increased season ticket sales with a new coach. The only way I see this thing not bottoming out from a financial standpoint is 6 + an Egg Bowl win. If you lose the EB and/or a bowl it’s going to be brutal

[Really Clark?]

I will say that there is also a concern that a firing might cause the AD to hire on the cheap to save money because of the buyout payout. Or go very conservative with a guy that he believes has a safe floor but low ceiling. I think we need to still be aggressive in finding the right fit, with a good game plan to right the ship quickly and be dynamic enough to be the one can raise the floor from what Dan built. This can be a short term reset but it has to be handled quickly, decisively, but most importantly find the right fit to the program and culture. A lot of the other stuff will correct itself fairly quickly if it is the right guy at the right time.

[R2Dawg]

over the last few days. The buyout is over $9 million. Joe WILL be here next year. Rumors to the contrary are just that, rumors. He ain't leaving and we ain't getting rid of him. Our financial position is better than was, but not enough better to do THAT. This source has never been wrong, ever. So, given that fact, why don't we do a most un MSU thing and support the coach until he isn't the coach. Our decision makers are not stupid. They also don't wish for pie in the sky stuff. That privilege is reserved for message boards.

Maybe it is, maybe it isn't but let him go 4-8 and I'm not sure he survives. Also, I can imagine there is a clause about not being on NCAA probation or something in order for any guaranteed money and guess what, we are. Can't imagine not having that in the contract, any HC contract.

[Coach34]

What is almost standard with college coaching contracts is that should we fire him and then he gets hired by someone else- his new salary is subtracted from the buyout total each year

[Johnson85]

Maybe it is, maybe it isn't but let him go 4-8 and I'm not sure he survives. Also, I can imagine there is a clause about not being on NCAA probation or something in order for any guaranteed money and guess what, we are. Can't imagine not having that in the contract, any HC contract.

That is a really good point. Possibly might only involve recruiting though or only be triggered if there is some finding of head coaching responsibility.