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Thread: We Are In A Bad Situation

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach34 View Post
    This. He may fail next season. Wouldn’t surprise anybody if he did. But I think he deserves a shot at it
    Why? And why not Moorhead?

  2. #82
    Senior Member Coach34's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_real_MSU_is_us View Post
    Why? And why not Moorhead?
    He won a Natty

    Jovester was hand delivered a 10 win team and turned it into an 8-5 team, had the chaos of LB's hurting QB's, told the fanbase to kick rocks, and finished it off by having the whole floor of a hotel they stayed in for the bowl game smelling like a weed dispensary.
    Walk like the King or walk like you don't care who the King is

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach34 View Post
    He won a Natty

    Jovester was hand delivered a 10 win team and turned it into an 8-5 team, had the chaos of LB's hurting QB's, told the fanbase to kick rocks, and finished it off by having the whole floor of a hotel they stayed in for the bowl game smelling like a weed dispensary.
    And Lemonis was handed a Omaha team, won a Natty with it (to his credit) and has turned it into 14th and 13th placed finishes since. Worse than Moorhead ever did.

    You know he's not going to build us back up. I respect your goal (creating fan support for the program) but I can't agree with the method (twisting the data the to get people to think Lemonis can build us back up to State standards)

    Ultimately Todd has fallen silent and you've fallen back to "he deserves a year 3" as the reason to keep him, not "here's reasons he'll do great going forward". Yall are the only 2 who seem to be optimistic.

    I think that says a lot about the situation (or maybe just how annoying I am to argue with)

  4. #84
    Senior Member Coach34's Avatar
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    Arm injuries killed 2022
    Bad pitching from top to bottom killed 2023

    Improve the pitching and we are back in the NCAA's. It's pretty simple
    Walk like the King or walk like you don't care who the King is

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach34 View Post
    Arm injuries killed 2022
    Bad pitching from top to bottom killed 2023

    Improve the pitching and we are back in the NCAA's. It's pretty simple
    The standard is hosting, not merely making the NCAA Tournament. Lemonis should be fired next year if we aren't at least one of the top few 2 seeds who barely missed hosting. If we are a 3 seed without a winning SEC record, that's not good enough.

    It would be fine to have a year like that on occasion when we're regularly hosting, but not as a 3-year peak.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quaoarsking View Post
    The standard is hosting, not merely making the NCAA Tournament. Lemonis should be fired next year if we aren't at least one of the top few 2 seeds who barely missed hosting. If we are a 3 seed without a winning SEC record, that's not good enough.

    It would be fine to have a year like that on occasion when we're regularly hosting, but not as a 3-year peak.
    Top 10 classes, top 5 paid staff, top 5 facilities, top 5 fanbase, top 10 in biggest names in college baseball, and all for field of 64 results.

    But hey, he deserves a year 3! What kind of a coach would want to come here anyway? Nobody would come here with our ridiculous standards like "don't miss Hoover back to back years".

  7. #87
    Senior Member smootness's Avatar
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    And that is the problem - if he improves somewhat and makes the tournament but we're not even hosting a regional, will we have the guts then to fire him? If it looks bad to fire a coach 2 years after the only national title in school history, doesn't it still look bad to fire that same coach after he improves in year 3?

    Obviously if we miss the tournament again, he's gone. That's a given. But what kind of improvement would be needed for him to keep his job after next year? Because a 3-year span in which we are horrific 2 of those years and a 2 seed in one of them is no better than a 2-year span in which we are horrific. They are both nowhere near MSU standards.

    If I'm Selmon, I fire him now because I don't believe he's the guy. But if I do bring him back, it is explicitly clear that the only way he keeps his job is if we host a regional.

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_real_MSU_is_us View Post
    Top 10 classes, top 5 paid staff, top 5 facilities, top 5 fanbase, top 10 in biggest names in college baseball, and all for field of 64 results.

    But hey, he deserves a year 3! What kind of a coach would want to come here anyway? Nobody would come here with our ridiculous standards like "don't miss Hoover back to back years".
    But what if we make it as a 3 seed and then end up in a Super?

    I just don’t see us firing him if we make the NCAA Tourney
    Walk like the King or walk like you don't care who the King is

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach34 View Post
    As I just posted- we have signed one of the top-rated SS in the country. The plan is for him to be the SS and Mershon to play 2nd
    Most are aware and are excited if he doesn't get drafted. But Mershon can definitely play it if needed

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach34 View Post
    But what if we make it as a 3 seed and then end up in a Super?

    I just don’t see us firing him if we make the NCAA Tourney
    If he makes a Super of course he should come back. Being in the final 16 teams is perfectly acceptable. But if he makes a regional as a 3 seed and goes 1-2... well still bring him back but it'll just be to waste another year cause he doesn't have it.

    Hope I'm wrong

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach34 View Post
    Arm injuries killed 2022
    Bad pitching from top to bottom killed 2023

    Improve the pitching and we are back in the NCAA's. It's pretty simple
    I contend that a new coach with a new staff has as good if not better chance of improving the pitching.

    Why do we have to take the chance that he fails again next year. What is the difference in Lemonis improving the team to 32-24 (12-18 SEC) and squeaking into Hoover and sweating out getting a 3 or 4 seed and another coach doing the same. Which one is really re-building the program?

  12. #92
    Senior Member Coach34's Avatar
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    Here is where I see many of you have no idea about college baseball. There's almost no chance of an SEC team being a 4 seed in the NCAA Tourney.

    We have a solid core of players. With improved pitching, some good portal moves, and freshmen living up to hype we could be a top 16 seed next year. Damn- we have 4 pitchers on campus already that can start on the weekend- Loftin, Loo, Simmons, and Holcombe. Fix them

    Hines and Jordan are All-SEC players.
    Mershon should be an outstanding leadoff hitter and 2nd baseman next year
    Highfill can swing it and will be improved at Catcher
    Hugesak could be back and be a solid player
    Get some impact portal guys

    This team could be really good next year
    Walk like the King or walk like you don't care who the King is

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach34 View Post
    Here is where I see many of you have no idea about college baseball. There's almost no chance of an SEC team being a 4 seed in the NCAA Tourney.

    We have a solid core of players. With improved pitching, some good portal moves, and freshmen living up to hype we could be a top 16 seed next year. Damn- we have 4 pitchers on campus already that can start on the weekend- Loftin, Loo, Simmons, and Holcombe. Fix them

    Hines and Jordan are All-SEC players.
    Mershon should be an outstanding leadoff hitter and 2nd baseman next year
    Highfill can swing it and will be improved at Catcher
    Hugesak could be back and be a solid player
    Get some impact portal guys

    This team could be really good next year
    Come on, we both know you don't believe this stuff. We'll be OK because we have Hujesak and his .238 batting average that couldn't beat our error machine Alford at 3rd? Loo and Holcombe with their 8+ERA are so easy to "fix" that they we should expect them to be SEC starters? Mershon's bad glove will be solid just because he'll play 2b? A true Fr SS will be a stud because the MLB thinks he has potential? Simmons off TJ will immediately be good to go? Highfill will improve just... because he will? There's a whole lot of assumptions and wishful thinking going on here.

    Don't talk about us having 'no idea about college baseball' while you act like every pitcher with potential will pan out. 1/3 guys with potential make it. For every Small there's a Cerantola and a Walling. You know next years staff will be a mess due to how many non SEC players we've recruited and how under coached everyone is. A new PC can't fix this mess that quick.

    Will we be improved next year? Yes, because the defense can't get worse and the pitching will definitely get better under literally any pitching coach and the offense returns some good players. BUT, all that's true with a different HC too.

    "this team could be really good next year" this is just really transparent trying to hype up the fans to buy tickets and donate. Literally nobody but you is saying we'll be "really good" next year. We need players to take massive steps defensively, improve offensively, need to get lucky with the Draft, nail some position Portal players (which to be fail, Lemonis has been good at), have a historically good pitching portal haul, AND make the right PC hire to develop what we have and manage the mess well. that's a whoooool lot that has to go right for Mr "I missed Hoover then did nothing to fix it that offseason and missed it again".

    Nobody is drinking the Kool-Aid you're selling. Even Todd isn't this optimistic. 3 weeks ago what were you calling Lemonis? "Lemonizik", was it?
    Last edited by the_real_MSU_is_us; 05-23-2023 at 09:12 PM.

  14. #94
    Senior Member Coach34's Avatar
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    I dont care if you believe it or not. We could easily be a Top 16 seed next year. We just need a few more parts and Lemon pushing the right buttons. Can Lemon make it happen? Thats the question. His job is riding on it. We shall see.

    I dont have to do anything for fans to buy tickets. Our stadium chairbacks are sold out every year. That isnt changing. Nobody is giving up their OF spot after having it for 30-40 years
    Walk like the King or walk like you don't care who the King is

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by R2Dawg View Post
    I don't think anyone has missed the craptastic job the past two years but Lemo did win a NC and that buys you a lot of capital but Lemo has used it all now. Next year is do or die. Make a regional or you are done IMO.
    I do not buy the argument that Lemo "won" the NC; he just happened to be in the right place at the right time. The pieces for winning that natty were already in place; he just went along for the ride and got the credit.

  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_real_MSU_is_us View Post
    Seriously that's the thing. Of we played good defense and had a offense that wasn't average to below average in offense (9th in batting average, 7th is SLG, 7th in OBP, 10th in runs) then sure, replacing Fox may be all we need. He'll, of this was year 3 we could actually blame the Cohen-cann-Henderson chaos. But it's year 5.

    We are bad on defense, mediocre on offense, make bad in-game decision, make bad roster decisions, make bad NIL decisions (Stinnett) and its YEAR 5. why would I trust Lemonis to kame a good PC hire and fix all the rest?
    Witness choosing to pitch to a guy (aTm) a third time after he has already hit two out of the Dude and thereby beats us literally singlehandedly. That's little-league bad decision making.

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach34 View Post
    But what if we make it as a 3 seed and then end up in a Super?

    I just don?t see us firing him if we make the NCAA Tourney
    The NCAA Tournament is poorly designed for baseball and is basically a weighted crapshoot. I don't put much stock into postseason results, unless it becomes a thing that a coach is consistently underachieving in the postseason, year-in, year-out.

    The regular season is the standard to measure a coach against. I would feel a lot better about the program going forward if next year we host but get upset in the regional (especially if we're not 0-2) than getting a 3 seed and then lucking into winning the Regional. It's a sliding scale though. I'd be very happy with being one of the first couple of teams to miss hosting and then winning the Regional anyway (like in 2017).

    In the 10-year/9-season stretch from 2021 through 2022, we went:
    2012 - barely missed hosting
    2013 - hosted
    2014 - barely missed hosting
    2015 - oops
    2016 - hosted with top 8 national seed
    2017 - barley missed hosting
    2018 - bad extenuating circumstance but still managed a 2 seed
    2019 - hosted with top 8 national seed
    2021 - hosted with top 8 national seed

    That's the standard we should hold the program to. 7 of the 9 years we we either hosted, or we had a winning SEC record and were in the hosting discussion, also in 1 of those years we started out really poorly but played like a host in the 2nd half of the season.

    I'm not going to overreact to the postseason results of any particular year as far as judging the coaches, but in that same stretch, we won 6 Regionals, went to Omaha 4 times, played for the title twice, and won it once. Even though the exact postseason results don't line up exactly on a year-to-year basis, we've on average outperformed our seeding by just a little bit.

    So to answer your question - if we have a losing SEC record and get a 3 seed next year, then yes, I would probably support firing Lemonis even if we won a Regional, because it would indicate that the team still isn't living up to the standards that any reasonably competent head coach should have it at (nor to the level of talent our recruiting classes suggest we will have), but I would at least consider extenuating circumstances if there were any. If we host next year and lose the Regional, I would be very likely to support bringing back Lemonis in 2025, and I'll admit that I was too harsh in my judgment of him throughout this season.

  18. #98
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    [QUOTE=Coach34;1522910]Here is where I see many of you have no idea about college baseball. There's almost no chance of an SEC team being a 4 seed in the NCAA Tourney.

    We have a solid core of players. With improved pitching, some good portal moves, and freshmen living up to hype we could be a top 16 seed next year. Damn- we have 4 pitchers on campus already that can start on the weekend- Loftin, Loo, Simmons, and Holcombe. Fix them

    Hines and Jordan are All-SEC players.
    Mershon should be an outstanding leadoff hitter and 2nd baseman next year
    Highfill can swing it and will be improved at Catcher
    Hugesak could be back and be a solid player
    Get some impact portal guys

    This team could be really good next year[/QUOTE]

    Man i cant believe you are drinking this kool-aid. Pass me some CBD gummies your taking.

  19. #99
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    it appears that lemonczik(what coach 34 used to call the HC) only needs a legit closer for next year, oh and a couple portal hitters who can field a ball and subsequently toss it over to the bag at 1B.

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quaoarsking View Post
    The standard is hosting, not merely making the NCAA Tournament. Lemonis should be fired next year if we aren't at least one of the top few 2 seeds who barely missed hosting. If we are a 3 seed without a winning SEC record, that's not good enough.

    It would be fine to have a year like that on occasion when we're regularly hosting, but not as a 3-year peak.
    AMEN!

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