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Thread: We Are In A Bad Situation

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    Senior Member StarkVegasSteve's Avatar
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    We Are In A Bad Situation

    There is no easy way out of the situation we currently find ourselves in. If we keep him, which I have been against for 12 months, then I do not really see things getting better and he will be gone May 2024 and we will have to completely rebuild the roster from the ground up. It is probably a 2 year rebuild. If we fire him, which is not likely at all, we will have massive transfers and will have to rebuild the roster from the ground up. Also probably a two year rebuild. So basically the question is do you want to bet on Lemonis being able to turn it around next year or do you want to get out ahead of this Titanic before it hits about 8 more icebergs and the ship breaks apart even more.

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    Senior Member starkvegasdawg's Avatar
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    My question is if he's just a bad coach, and will never take us back to where we're accustomed to being then why does he have the loyalty of the players? I would think they would want to win and have a coach that gives us the best chance to do so.

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    Senior Member StarkVegasSteve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by starkvegasdawg View Post
    My question is if he's just a bad coach, and will never take us back to where we're accustomed to being then why does he have the loyalty of the players? I would think they would want to win and have a coach that gives us the best chance to do so.
    That would be a question for them. I mean the players loved Moorhead up until almost the last day and we could tell he was a bad coach after Game 4 of his first year.

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    In his post game presser, he continually mentioned that we have on area that needs major work (pitching obviously). He seemed to imply that in fixing that, everything else returns to normal. I somewhat agree. Our pitching was so atrocious that in half of our SEC games we had absolutely no shot at winning. The defense was bad, yes, but it did get better as the year went on. If you get a Muscara or someone like him as the Pitching Coach, you are back to normal next year. I truly think it?s that simple. We need some help from the portal, too, obviously. I say give him one more ride with a new PC and that?s the last straw.

    And what I mean by that is top 25, borderline hosting. I don?t mean to just make the tournament. Get us back to hosting or right there close to it, or get out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by starkvegasdawg View Post
    My question is if he's just a bad coach, and will never take us back to where we're accustomed to being then why does he have the loyalty of the players? I would think they would want to win and have a coach that gives us the best chance to do so.
    Once they get use to not having to work hard, it becomes a habit and more comfortable. Also having a coach that will coddle you and continue to give you multiple chances is also comfortable.

    And third, familiarity. The coach that recruits them and they get used to that person as their leader is where their loyalty will lie until the new guy meets with them and assures them they will get a fair chance.

    What Prime did at Colorado May eventually work out but to just flat out tell some that they need to find another home before you even get to evaluate them through a fair process has probably crossed the minds of several athletes recruited by one coach and have to go through a couple of coaching changes.

    Wil Hoyle thought he was moving to a better situation when he left Duke for MSU. Duke will be a top 16 host week after next.

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    Senior Member MetEdDawg's Avatar
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    We were one win away from Hoover with statistically the worst pitching staff in our school's history and the worst in the conference this year.

    If we have even the 12th worst staff in the conference this year, we are likely a 2 seed. But it took the worst statistical performance ever for this to happen.

    Our offense was fine. Defense got better as the year went on and Lemonis proved he was willing to sit a senior who was important to us winning a championship for a freshman in the middle of conference play. That can't be overlooked.

    Pitching coach has been fired and if we can keep them, we have a talented core coming back. You can build around Alford, Hines, Mershon, Highfill, and Chance. Need a little more pop from the portal and we need to do whatever it takes to find the right pitching coach and kids who can throw the baseball for strikes.

    I'm good with Lemonis getting another year.

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    Senior Member StarkVegasSteve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MetEdDawg View Post
    We were one win away from Hoover with statistically the worst pitching staff in our school's history and the worst in the conference this year.

    If we have even the 12th worst staff in the conference this year, we are likely a 2 seed. But it took the worst statistical performance ever for this to happen.

    Our offense was fine. Defense got better as the year went on and Lemonis proved he was willing to sit a senior who was important to us winning a championship for a freshman in the middle of conference play. That can't be overlooked.

    Pitching coach has been fired and if we can keep them, we have a talented core coming back. You can build around Alford, Hines, Mershon, Highfill, and Chance. Need a little more pop from the portal and we need to do whatever it takes to find the right pitching coach and kids who can throw the baseball for strikes.

    I'm good with Lemonis getting another year.
    Alford will not be be back and I would not be blown away if Chance transferred as well. He was our best hitter and we never gave him a consistent look after he got back from injury.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MetEdDawg View Post
    We were one win away from Hoover with statistically the worst pitching staff in our school's history and the worst in the conference this year.

    If we have even the 12th worst staff in the conference this year, we are likely a 2 seed. But it took the worst statistical performance ever for this to happen.

    Our offense was fine. Defense got better as the year went on and Lemonis proved he was willing to sit a senior who was important to us winning a championship for a freshman in the middle of conference play. That can't be overlooked.

    Pitching coach has been fired and if we can keep them, we have a talented core coming back. You can build around Alford, Hines, Mershon, Highfill, and Chance. Need a little more pop from the portal and we need to do whatever it takes to find the right pitching coach and kids who can throw the baseball for strikes.

    I'm good with Lemonis getting another year.
    Alford needs to be on a train today out of town. Kid is a cancer in the clubhouse and struggles all over.

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    Senior Member msstate7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MetEdDawg View Post
    We were one win away from Hoover with statistically the worst pitching staff in our school's history and the worst in the conference this year.

    If we have even the 12th worst staff in the conference this year, we are likely a 2 seed. But it took the worst statistical performance ever for this to happen.

    Our offense was fine. Defense got better as the year went on and Lemonis proved he was willing to sit a senior who was important to us winning a championship for a freshman in the middle of conference play. That can't be overlooked.

    Pitching coach has been fired and if we can keep them, we have a talented core coming back. You can build around Alford, Hines, Mershon, Highfill, and Chance. Need a little more pop from the portal and we need to do whatever it takes to find the right pitching coach and kids who can throw the baseball for strikes.

    I'm good with Lemonis getting another year.
    Pretty sweet for lemonis to not have to take any credit with our fanbase for the pitching.

    I think a huge part of pitching talent is being able to repeat a delivery to throw strikes. I don't think this is easily taught.

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    Do we know for sure that "we will have massive transfers" if we fire him, or is that speculation? And wouldn't we have those in a year after we're bad again?

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    Senior Member MetEdDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msstate7 View Post
    Pretty sweet for lemonis to not have to take any credit with our fanbase for the pitching.

    I think a huge part of pitching talent is being able to repeat a delivery to throw strikes. I don't think this is easily taught.
    I like how we literally just replaced a head football coach that was held completely separately from what the defense did yet in baseball we can't say that something similar happened? Leach got no credit or demeaning when the defense was either good or bad. Lemonis is an offensive guy and along with Gautreau they've done a good job in that area of the team. He hired Foxhall to run our pitching staff. And it sucked. So he got fired.

    Lemonis can take shots for the defense but I don't hold him as responsible for the pitching. Foxhall did a poor job with the last two staffs.

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    Senior Member msstate7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MetEdDawg View Post
    I like how we literally just replaced a head football coach that was held completely separately from what the defense did yet in baseball we can't say that something similar happened? Leach got no credit or demeaning when the defense was either good or bad. Lemonis is an offensive guy and along with Gautreau they've done a good job in that area of the team. He hired Foxhall to run our pitching staff. And it sucked. So he got fired.

    Lemonis can take shots for the defense but I don't hold him as responsible for the pitching. Foxhall did a poor job with the last two staffs.
    Whoever recruited/signed a staff full of guys that can't throw strikes is responsible. If that's foxhall, then it's him. I don't think you can just teach guys to consistently throw strikes. You can, or you can't... we can't

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    Senior Member Todd4State's Avatar
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    I bet on Lemonis turning it around. We're getting a new pitching coach. Everyone agrees that is a big need.

    On defense we made 65 errors as a team. 28 of those were made by two players. Both are likely gone this offseason.

    Very correctable situation IMO.

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    Senior Member Coach34's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve View Post
    Alford will not be be back and I would not be blown away if Chance transferred as well. He was our best hitter and we never gave him a consistent look after he got back from injury.
    Chance is not an SEC hitter. He should have never been playing ahead of Jordan
    Walk like the King or walk like you don't care who the King is

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    Senior Member Todd4State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msstate7 View Post
    Whoever recruited/signed a staff full of guys that can't throw strikes is responsible. If that's foxhall, then it's him. I don't think you can just teach guys to consistently throw strikes. You can, or you can't... we can't
    Some can definitely be taught. Sandy Koufax and Randy Johnson had major command issues early in their careers. Once they became more consistent then they became hall of famers.

    Foxhall wasn't doing enough teaching. Ultimately I think he failed because he focused too much on velocity and spin rate and not enough on fundamentals and developing things like mechanics and teaching guys how to pitch.

    One thing that I think hurt us is we didn't have very many guys pitching summer league baseball. Instead they spent time with trainers increasing velocity in a lot of cases. What our guys really needed was to pitch and be in situations so they can learn how to handle themselves and then add velocity later.

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    Senior Member Coach34's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quaoarsking View Post
    Do we know for sure that "we will have massive transfers" if we fire him, or is that speculation? And wouldn't we have those in a year after we're bad again?
    GoTro is loved and trusted by the players. Firing him would def cause guys to leave. Him leaving to take a head job? Players would understand
    Walk like the King or walk like you don't care who the King is

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    Senior Member Really Clark?'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd4State View Post
    Some can definitely be taught. Sandy Koufax and Randy Johnson had major command issues early in their careers. Once they became more consistent then they became hall of famers.

    Foxhall wasn't doing enough teaching. Ultimately I think he failed because he focused too much on velocity and spin rate and not enough on fundamentals and developing things like mechanics and teaching guys how to pitch.

    One thing that I think hurt us is we didn't have very many guys pitching summer league baseball. Instead they spent time with trainers increasing velocity in a lot of cases. What our guys really needed was to pitch and be in situations so they can learn how to handle themselves and then add velocity later.
    Johnson was cut at USC after 2 years because he couldn't throw strikes. All the talent and it was evident but it took him to about 25 to harness it and then 29 to be consistently great and then incredible from 35-40 years old. That's not what a college team can recruit many of hoping they harness it in a year or two.

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    Senior Member StarkVegasSteve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach34 View Post
    Chance is not an SEC hitter. He should have never been playing ahead of Jordan
    Kind of hard to tell since he only had 34 ABs in conference play. I would much rather have had him in RF than Clark

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    Senior Member smootness's Avatar
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    Players aren?t the best at assessing a coach?s ability. They?re too close and too personally involved in the situation.

    Even if the problem is pitching and it?s all on Foxhall, it took Lemonis way too long to make that move.

    No matter how you slice it, this is on Lemonis. He does not deserve another year. The right move to make a year from now is the right move now. Time for him to go.

  20. #20
    Senior Member StarkVegasSteve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smootness View Post
    Players aren?t the best at assessing a coach?s ability. They?re too close and too personally involved in the situation.

    Even if the problem is pitching and it?s all on Foxhall, it took Lemonis way too long to make that move.

    No matter how you slice it, this is on Lemonis. He does not deserve another year. The right move to make a year from now is the right move now. Time for him to go.
    I agree. Even knowing it will cost us Jordan, Hines, Mershon, and probably a few more it is better to go ahead and blow it up now and start the rebuild.

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