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Thread: 3D Chess - the Lesson of Paul Skenes

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    3D Chess - the Lesson of Paul Skenes

    1. To fire Lemonis - you must pay 6MM buyout (According to Coach 34)
    2. To NIL Skenes - 250K (According to a dumb-as-dogshit LSU fan I know)
    3. Then MSU is better off keeping Lemonis and getting 4 Paul Skenes type pitch talents for 1M by appropriating "buyout" dollars to getting top-notch All American players.
    4. Win the National Championship in 2024
    5. Then fire Lemonis after the dog pile clears and buyout is zero, hire only 350K coaches from here out.

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    Senior Member bulldogcountry1's Avatar
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    A 6MM buyout seems pretty unbelievable, especially after last season. If that is the case, then we cannot fire him. Even if we have some donors willing to pay it, we will have to turn around and pay someone else handsomely to come. Then, you have to hire assistants.

    At that point, what would be left for NIL? As bad as I hate the NIL situation, I think the better option would be to convince these donors to donate to NIL. 4-6MM should put us in position to pull/hold good players for years.

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    I don't disagree. But boosters tend to be older, and older people tend to be "back in my day" types who don't want to change their views.

    If any booster questions what you're saying (that NIL offers more bang for your buck than getting good coaches) I say look at any pro sport- the coaches make pennies compared to the star players, and virtually nothing compared to the roster as a whole. Yet at State the HC in every sport makes more than all his players combined.

    This is a huge opportunity for us to take advantage of college sports continued overpaying of coaches vs players, but we are State so I'm sire the boosters will refuse to use that 6M on NIL

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    How much did we pay Hancock, Stinnett, Forsythe, Pico, Hujsack, Gartman, Simmons, Auger, and Yntema?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leeshouldveflanked View Post
    How much did we pay Hancock, Stinnett, Forsythe, Pico, Hujsack, Gartman, Simmons, Auger, and Yntema?
    Would be interesting to know. I remember 50k for Stinnett got said here a few times, if true it's really not that bad of a deal. Yeah he himself isn't worth the roster spot, but that's the coaches misevaluating. The point is, a guy came back another year for 50k. We can do that for 3-5 key contributors/prospects we want to stay, then offer 150k to keep some studs that have big offers to transfer away, then offer 250k to get 2-3 huge transfer contributors, and for the total cost of about a million we've got talented well rounded team. Vs 6M to fire a coach + millions more to entice a new coach, that's cheap.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leeshouldveflanked View Post
    How much did we pay Hancock, Stinnett, Forsythe, Pico, Hujsack, Gartman, Simmons, Auger, and Yntema?
    Way less than what skenes got added together. And several you listed got zero

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    Senior Member maroonmania's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Federalist Engineer View Post
    1. To fire Lemonis - you must pay 6MM buyout (According to Coach 34)
    2. To NIL Skenes - 250K (According to a dumb-as-dogshit LSU fan I know)
    3. Then MSU is better off keeping Lemonis and getting 4 Paul Skenes type pitch talents for 1M by appropriating "buyout" dollars to getting top-notch All American players.
    4. Win the National Championship in 2024
    5. Then fire Lemonis after the dog pile clears and buyout is zero, hire only 350K coaches from here out.
    Buy out will NEVER be zero or even close to it. You can go a year without extending a coach's contract but not multiple years. If you do you will hamstring his efforts to recruit and retain coaches. It will become quite obvious the school is preparing to make a change. You really either need to commit to a coach or move on. Giving a coach one last 'trial' year in his 5th season on the job is not really a position you want to be in. Either you believe in a guy or you dont.

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    Quote Originally Posted by the_real_MSU_is_us View Post
    Would be interesting to know. I remember 50k for Stinnett got said here a few times, if true it's really not that bad of a deal. Yeah he himself isn't worth the roster spot, but that's the coaches misevaluating. The point is, a guy came back another year for 50k. We can do that for 3-5 key contributors/prospects we want to stay, then offer 150k to keep some studs that have big offers to transfer away, then offer 250k to get 2-3 huge transfer contributors, and for the total cost of about a million we've got talented well rounded team. Vs 6M to fire a coach + millions more to entice a new coach, that's cheap.
    You can't misuse NIL money on a player that doesn't even contribute unless you want to kill giving. That goes against all the must have NIL or you can't win crowd which is most. There will be more and more examples of how money won't buy championships every year but with small budgets, we can't swing and miss.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Federalist Engineer View Post
    1. To fire Lemonis - you must pay 6MM buyout (According to Coach 34)
    2. To NIL Skenes - 250K (According to a dumb-as-dogshit LSU fan I know)
    3. Then MSU is better off keeping Lemonis and getting 4 Paul Skenes type pitch talents for 1M by appropriating "buyout" dollars to getting top-notch All American players.
    4. Win the National Championship in 2024
    5. Then fire Lemonis after the dog pile clears and buyout is zero, hire only 350K coaches from here out.
    Finally the blueprint for success, now just execute.

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    Quote Originally Posted by R2Dawg View Post
    You can't misuse NIL money on a player that doesn't even contribute unless you want to kill giving
    I'm not saying you're wrong, but I will say that if boosters behave like that they're hypocrites: We "misused" money hiring JoMo, but the boosters still contributed for us to hire a new coach. Same is true for any coach weve fired in any sport. Why would they stop giving to NIL if it have a sub 100% hit rate when they contribute to coaching buyouts and new coach salaries even when the AD making the new hire is the one who failed last time?

    Point is, NIL is just what player salaries are to coaching salaries in pro leagues. Any pro team owner that says "I'm going to pay big bucks for a coach because we need a good coach" but also says "I'm going to have the lowest paid roster in the league because once a guy got lazy after I gave him a big contract" is an idiot who will not win. Boosters may not like it, but NIL is more important than having a good coach.

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    Senior Member Really Clark?'s Avatar
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    The buyout is not $6 MIL for Lemonis, it's a little less than that for the entire staff. Which we have already committed part of that in the pot to fire Fox.

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    Yes, collegiate baseball NIL and the Lemonis Paradox figured out for 2024. This is me and Selmon figuring it out and Homedawg angry about it....


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    Nothing is as funny as broke asses telling other people how to spend their money. If the big boosters want to throw $1 million at the program then they should have some say-so where that goes. If you wanted Skenes so badly then why didn’t you write the damn check and get him? Y’all sound like the government being experts on spending other people’s money.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Really Clark? View Post
    The buyout is not $6 MIL for Lemonis, it's a little less than that for the entire staff. Which we have already committed part of that in the pot to fire Fox.
    Yes. That $6MM number includes Fox, Lemon, GoTro, and Cheese
    Walk like the King or walk like you don't care who the King is

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    If Selmon & Keenum don't have the guts to make the HC change, they could at least try to get the boosters willing to spend millions on the buyout to spend that same amount on NIL. I don't like that compromise, but it would be better than nothing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by maroonmania View Post
    Buy out will NEVER be zero or even close to it. You can go a year without extending a coach's contract but not multiple years. If you do you will hamstring his efforts to recruit and retain coaches. It will become quite obvious the school is preparing to make a change. You really either need to commit to a coach or move on. Giving a coach one last 'trial' year in his 5th season on the job is not really a position you want to be in. Either you believe in a guy or you dont.
    You can extend a coach while keeping the buyout the same. So if Lem has 3 years and a buyout that is $2M if he has 2 years left on his contract and $1M if he has one year left, then pretty easy to renew him to 4 years and make the buyout start at $2M, reduce to $1M, then $500k. That's not going to hamstring recruiting. Now at some point the coach will refuse to sign an extension as the cheap buyout gets closer to the current year, but I can't imagine Lemonis would balk at this point at getting a 4 year extension if there is any buyout after the end of his current contract. If he gets a $100k if he is fired after what would be the end of his current contract, that's a pretty good deal for somebody that arguably should be fired.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Quaoarsking View Post
    If Selmon & Keenum don't have the guts to make the HC change, they could at least try to get the boosters willing to spend millions on the buyout to spend that same amount on NIL. I don't like that compromise, but it would be better than nothing.
    I have no clue how Lemonis would react to this, but I would like to see a proposal pitched to Lemonis along the lines of "we have boosters that are willing to pony up the money to fire you and your staff but they like you and want to see you succeed. If you will restructure your deal where you get back to 4 years at a slightly lower salary and a lower buyout, they are going to commit to make $1M a year available for your NIL for the next four years. The savings from your salary will also be more or less put back into NIL by boosters that would have more or less been paying that part of the salary." That would be less money out of the boosters pocket while still making us a major player in NIL for baseball. And start us on a path to paying coaches less and players more.

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    Senior Member Cooterpoot's Avatar
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    The point of the OP is that we tried to NIL shit the MSU way and it's going to end up costing us more. And he's correct.
    Todd said yesterday we'd have at least 8 more wins with Skenes, maybe more. That too is correct.
    So, let's sit on a questionable coach and not go big on NIL. Because that's the MSU way of doing shit. Then give up that $5MM to the school from our AD too.
    Such a waste

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    Quote Originally Posted by somebodyshotmypaw View Post
    Nothing is as funny as broke asses telling other people how to spend their money. If the big boosters want to throw $1 million at the program then they should have some say-so where that goes. If you wanted Skenes so badly then why didn’t you write the damn check and get him? Y’all sound like the government being experts on spending other people’s money.
    Skenes wasn't lost because of miney

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    Quote Originally Posted by confucius say View Post
    Skenes wasn't lost because of miney
    We didn't match the offer either. Imagine if we had offered $350K. Still a deal.

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