If I were in MSU's shoes- what I would do

[Captain Falcon]

Squandering the opportunity he had at MSU is just disrespectful on so many levels.

I mean I think at worst you have to call the Lemonis era a mixed bag. The guy did something no coach in our history has been able to do. Ron Polk and John Cohen only came close one time each. And it is not just our history, think of the Mike Martins and Dave Van Horns of the world who were/are at great programs and have not reached those heights. People want act like winning a championship is easy if you are at a blue blood, it freaking is not.

If this is the end for Lemonis, it is certainly a complicated legacy. The highest of highs and the lowest of lows, simply put. It is difficult to rationalize that the same coach who managed us beautifully in 2021 is the same guy who is 15-36 in SEC play since then. But it is where we are.

[Cooterpoot]

I don't think we treated the players like pros. I think the coaches thought they, themselves were pros. They stopped teaching/coaching as required at a top P5 program. These kids don't come in ready. You have to teach/coach still. Haire wouldn't be the top of my list or first few calls. He'd be on the list though.

[raymonddawg]

A couple comments. I think Todd is right on with Lemonis' treating the players like pros. This is pretty much out there and how he's always been. He's a players coach in that he let's them kind of figure things out on their own and in some aspects do as they please. He doesn't want to show them up ever. This made sense for the teams Lemonis inherited a the beginning of his tenure. 2019-2021 rosters were loaded with gritty MSU type players that already knew the ways of MSU baseball. Lem kind of put his feet up and let the alphas be alphas and it created a great dynamic and obviously led to a special summer in 21'. These guys have all come and gone.

Now, I think we have an extremely talented team and I don't think that's in question. And I haven't been able to put a finger on the teams struggles, but this post kind of makes sense. The current roster has been treated like the 2019-2021 guys and its just backfired. These guys don't play with any enthusiasm and seem like they have nothing to prove. The group wasn't established enough to be treated like the 19-21 teams and Lem missed on that. The last two seasons have been embarrassing besides a couple players individual accomplishments.

I guess now either Lem is fired and we reset or hopefully he realizes this isn't working and retools his approach to 2024. Either way something has to change.

[Pancho]

He can't suddenly transform himself and all of a sudden begin coaching and presenting himself in a way in which he never has before. He's done and if he is allowed to stay, we are done.

[Bothrops]

He can't suddenly transform himself and all of a sudden begin coaching and presenting himself in a way in which he never has before. He's done and if he is allowed to stay, we are done.

This is the way I see it. It's most likely the case.

[Coach34]

He can't suddenly transform himself and all of a sudden begin coaching and presenting himself in a way in which he never has before. He's done and if he is allowed to stay, we are done.

Coaches are who they are- they dont change. They have to go thru the process to figure that out just like I did.

I'm a coordinator- not a HC. I hate all the paperwork, dealing with media and parents. I want to f'ing coach.

[Captain Falcon]

Now I do think it is possible for different coaches to fit certain groups of players more than others. Lemonis was clearly a great fit his first three years, but I do not think that should be confused with him not having to lift a finger to do anything. He still managed those teams well.

These last two teams are different personality-wise and he has evidently had a hard time adjusting to it.

[shoeless joe]

One thing Todd mentioned that is spot on?we need a hard ass as our coach. John Cohen, for all his faults, coached players the right way. He recruited those type players and then he coached them and in reality got an awful lot out of them. Look back at that ?11 team. That team IMO epitomized MSU baseball and cohens tenure here. We had some guys that would become great but were freshmen. We were led by tough gritty dirt bag type guys. The type of guys that made MSU baseball of the 80s and 90s. That ?11 team was 7 outs from Omaha against a vastly superior team. We need a coach that recognizes what we are, recruits those kinda players?with elite guys sprinkled in?and creates that tough culture of grit determination and out working the opponent every day.

That is where lemonis failed. His best teams were ready made. Just like when stansbury, although he recruited his guys, had bowers, power, and Roberts to lead his best team. It is what it is. I feel like lemonis will get next yr but I?m fine if he doesn?t. But what we are seeing now is not acceptable with what we are as a program. And baseball is the one program where we can say that.

[Quaoarsking]

Haire doesn't fire me up at all. It's weird our fan base is just running with that name.

Why not? He's had years of success (championships) at Campbell and even has them ranked this year. He's not just a random flash in the pan of the year.

[basedog]

Why not? He's had years of success (championships) at Campbell and even has them ranked this year. He's not just a random flash in the pan of the year.

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[Captain Falcon]

Why not? He's had years of success (championships) at Campbell and even has them ranked this year. He's not just a random flash in the pan of the year.

Bad conference, not that long of track record, took about 4 years to get going at Campbell after following up a successful coach. If you are going to go the mid major coach route, he is good but not the top of my list.

[SpaceBully]

Fair to be very frustrated with Lemonis for the last two years, but not giving him any credit for the championship is not rooted in reality. He was doing an excellent job and then it went off the rails, for whatever reason, I will not pretend to understand exactly what has happened. But the answer does not have to be ?he sucks and actually he always has?. More to it than that. Things were going very well, and then they were not. It is a complicated and confusing turn of events, and I don?t think dumbing it down to ?Lemonis was never any good? is accurate at all.

I was convinced he would be back next year but I am getting less certain. The bare minimum threshold to be back for 2024 was not high, and it is not exactly being met.

Justin Haire is a good coach but I am not sold on him as a no doubt, sure thing hire for an SEC school. The talent level Campbell has produced is impressive relative to their size, but there is still a world of difference in the SEC and the Big South. Plus his track record of success there is just over a couple of years. I cannot help but wonder if this guy would even be on our fans? radar if Campbell had not been in our Regional two years ago and played us close in that one game.

I still do not know if a change is being made. But if it is, my list would start with Dan Heefner.

Well, it started with losing the top pitcher in the SEC and maybe the nation in Landon Sims. Then we lost our next two best hurlers as well. That in itself was devastating. We had depth, but it wasn't quality depth. Just not good enough to win games. And this year, we still haven't replaced what we lost in 22'. Gartman was our best portal get, but even he has struggled at times.....and we still just don't have the experienced pitching depth in 23'. Hitting has improved. But not enough to cover the pitching deficiencies. We got caught with our pants down on having a lack of EXPERIENCED quality pitching.

[viverlibre]

Cohen wasn't responsible for TA (Cann), sims (Cann), or Bednar (lemonis/foxhall).

We don't even sniff Omaha without those 3, so I can't give Cohen all of the credit for the national title.

Concur, giving that credit to Cohen is stupid.