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Thread: If I were in MSU's shoes- what I would do

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    Senior Member Todd4State's Avatar
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    If I were in MSU's shoes- what I would do

    Let's just get this out of the way- yes Lemonis should be fired and I don't think there is any turning it around at this point. His team is not playing baseball with the respect it deserves and it's absolutely sad to see because we at MSU are one of if not the standard bearer for SEC baseball. Absolutely ugly- guys fighting in the dugouts, having trouble with pop ups, giving away AB's, walks, etc.

    My guess as to what happened most likely is I think it's two fold really.

    1. We treated our players like pros instead of like college players. And you can't do that. Shouldn't expect a college kid to be mature enough or have the time to act like a pro. Sure there are a few alpha male super competitive types like Mangum and Ethan Small that can get away with it which is why both are about to be MLB players. College players need work on fundamentals constantly at all facets of the game. And they need to be made to do it. Part of their player development is teaching them how to be professional while they're here.

    2. We relied way too much on analytics and it's led to fubar baseball. It got us away from our identity of blue collar hard working play the game harder than you baseball. We don't attack the strike zone. We allow opponents to show us up. We take poor selfish AB's at times. Our fundamentals suck.

    Now that is out of the way how do we fix it?

    1. You bring in Justin Haire. His style of play is the identity that fits MSU baseball. When Polk 2 got burned out and turned our program soft we fixed it by bringing in Cohen. Haire built Campbell along with Greg Goff with a blue collar mentality. His program is producing MLB players like Cedric Mullins and Zach Neto.

    2. You hire the best pitching coach we can get. We can not be where we want to be without an elite pitching coach.

    3. We need to recruit personality and character fit better like we did under Cohen. More Adam Frazier, Jake Mangum, and Tanner Allen and less Slade Alford.

    At the end of the day Lemonis was not a good fit for MSU despite the National Championship. I think he is in over his head and is too lazy to succeed over the long run. I will never give him credit for the National Championship. That should go to John Cohen who built that team and program which Lemonis destroyed. I will never ever respect Chris Lemonis for what he did to our program.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCo5SXXYq0w&t=1005s


    Justin Haire Interview starts at 16:47

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    I like what he has done there. Sounds like he hasn?t finished the job he went there to do.

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    Fair to be very frustrated with Lemonis for the last two years, but not giving him any credit for the championship is not rooted in reality. He was doing an excellent job and then it went off the rails, for whatever reason, I will not pretend to understand exactly what has happened. But the answer does not have to be ?he sucks and actually he always has?. More to it than that. Things were going very well, and then they were not. It is a complicated and confusing turn of events, and I don?t think dumbing it down to ?Lemonis was never any good? is accurate at all.

    I was convinced he would be back next year but I am getting less certain. The bare minimum threshold to be back for 2024 was not high, and it is not exactly being met.

    Justin Haire is a good coach but I am not sold on him as a no doubt, sure thing hire for an SEC school. The talent level Campbell has produced is impressive relative to their size, but there is still a world of difference in the SEC and the Big South. Plus his track record of success there is just over a couple of years. I cannot help but wonder if this guy would even be on our fans? radar if Campbell had not been in our Regional two years ago and played us close in that one game.

    I still do not know if a change is being made. But if it is, my list would start with Dan Heefner.

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    Senior Member Todd4State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Falcon View Post
    Fair to be very frustrated with Lemonis for the last two years, but not giving him any credit for the championship is not rooted in reality. He was doing an excellent job and then it went off the rails, for whatever reason, I will not pretend to understand exactly what has happened. But the answer does not have to be ?he sucks and actually he always has?. More to it than that. Things were going very well, and then they were not. It is a complicated and confusing turn of events, and I don?t think dumbing it down to ?Lemonis was never any good? is accurate at all.

    I was convinced he would be back next year but I am getting less certain. The bare minimum threshold to be back for 2024 was not high, and it is not exactly being met.

    Justin Haire is a good coach but I am not sold on him as a no doubt, sure thing hire for an SEC school. The talent level Campbell has produced is impressive relative to their size, but there is still a world of difference in the SEC and the Big South. Plus his track record of success there is just over a couple of years. I cannot help but wonder if this guy would even be on our fans? radar if Campbell had not been in our Regional two years ago and played us close in that one game.

    I still do not know if a change is being made. But if it is, my list would start with Dan Heefner.
    Squandering the opportunity he had at MSU is just disrespectful on so many levels.

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    Senior Member Todd4State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainObvious View Post
    I like what he has done there. Sounds like he hasn?t finished the job he went there to do.
    I don't know. The only coach that really ever made it known that he would be looking around is Dan Mullen. He initially said he thought he would only be there for two years too.

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    Cohen wasn't responsible for TA (Cann), sims (Cann), or Bednar (lemonis/foxhall).

    We don't even sniff Omaha without those 3, so I can't give Cohen all of the credit for the national title.

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    Senior Member basedog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by confucius say View Post
    Cohen wasn't responsible for TA (Cann), sims (Cann), or Bednar (lemonis/foxhall).

    We don't even sniff Omaha without those 3, so I can't give Cohen all of the credit for the national title.
    I agree, it's players who have leadership ability that generates winning attitudes and championships. JWS had the best quote "coaches don't win games, players do, coaches just have to put players in a position to win games".

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    Senior Member KB21's Avatar
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    The first call I would make would be to Butch Thompson.

    Haire would be in the list. I do have some concerns over the fact that he has only coached at Campbell even as an assistant.

    Pat Hallmark and Lane Burroughs would also be in the list.

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    Senior Member sandjunky's Avatar
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    Butch wouldn?t be on my top 5 call list

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    Senior Member KOdawg1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandjunky View Post
    Butch wouldn?t be on my top 5 call list
    He'd be on mine. He might not be number 1, but as far as guys we can realistically get, Butch would be a pretty good hire.

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    I would fire any MSU baseball coach that comes in last place--right then -=no questions asked--when we hire a Coach he is told-"If you came in last your ass is grass" by not firing that bucket sitting-lazy ass-no fundamentals lemonis-we get another year of last place baseball--and still people are questioning IF we fire Him or not.. FIRE THAT DUDE TODAY!

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    Senior Member Saltydog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KOdawg1 View Post
    He'd be on mine. He might not be number 1, but as far as guys we can realistically get, Butch would be a pretty good hire.
    Yeah, Butch is a darn good coach and knows our fan base, culture and expectations. Plus, he's a great guy. Very affable. Ran into him a couple of years ago and ribbed him about the CWS game in '19. He just laughed it off but admitted that it stung a bit.
    "The QB and the receiver weren't on the same page there, but hey its only week eleven". (Jack Cristil)

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    Senior Member KB21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saltydog View Post
    Yeah, Butch is a darn good coach and knows our fan base, culture and expectations. Plus, he's a great guy. Very affable. Ran into him a couple of years ago and ribbed him about the CWS game in '19. He just laughed it off but admitted that it stung a bit.
    Butch maximizes the talent he has. He doesn?t have a talented team this year. Three weeks ago, they were struggling some. Now, they have won back to back series against SC and LSU and are positioned to be a 2 seed somewhere. He?s taken them to Omaha twice in the past 5 years. Auburn is probably one of the four worst jobs in the conference as well.

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    Senior Member DownwardDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by basedog View Post
    I agree, it's players who have leadership ability that generates winning attitudes and championships. JWS had the best quote "coaches don't win games, players do, coaches just have to put players in a position to win games".
    JWS also always said "it's not about the X's and O's, it's about the Jimmy's and Joe's ".
    Same thing basically.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DownwardDawg View Post
    JWS also always said "it's not about the X's and O's, it's about the Jimmy's and Joe's ".
    Same thing basically.
    Yep and JWS also said (I paraphrase), everyone has 300lb linemen and skilled athletes, its what you do with them that makes the difference in winning and losing.

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    Haire doesn't fire me up at all. It's weird our fan base is just running with that name.
    Last edited by HoopsDawg; 05-08-2023 at 12:28 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcdog70 View Post
    I would fire any MSU baseball coach that comes in last place--right then -=no questions asked--when we hire a Coach he is told-"If you came in last your ass is grass" by not firing that bucket sitting-lazy ass-no fundamentals lemonis-we get another year of last place baseball--and still people are questioning IF we fire Him or not.. FIRE THAT DUDE TODAY!
    So you would have fired Cohen after 2015 before we won the sec in 2016

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    Quote Originally Posted by KB21 View Post
    Butch maximizes the talent he has. He doesn?t have a talented team this year. Three weeks ago, they were struggling some. Now, they have won back to back series against SC and LSU and are positioned to be a 2 seed somewhere. He?s taken them to Omaha twice in the past 5 years. Auburn is probably one of the four worst jobs in the conference as well.
    Not having a talented team is the problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by confucius say View Post
    So you would have fired Cohen after 2015 before we won the sec in 2016
    JC took over a different situation than lemonis. but i probably would have had Him on a short lease. JC didn't have the Carnegie hall of baseball at that time. but if we had fired Him I would have said he deserved it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcdog70 View Post
    JC took over a different situation than lemonis. but i probably would have had Him on a short lease. JC didn't have the Carnegie hall of baseball at that time. but if we had fired Him I would have said he deserved it.
    I was just going off your statement that you would fire any State coach who finished last.
    And if you applied that to Arkansas, you would have fired van horn after the 2016 season.

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